De Has An Opportunity To Give Us 2 New Frames With Volt Prime.

[RealPandemonium]

Volt ist fine as he is.

Btw his 4th is not that bad even in high level.

It has a very high chance of dealing electricity status effect.

So u can immobilize everything around a cryopod with relatively ease.

100%,even

[(PSN)Silverback73]

Nope. You're being unrealistic with all these buffs. All I want is a base speed increase. Really.

 

I am tired of being outsped by teammates when using Speed. This made me minimize AOE, and I now only cast it when no one is in my radius. Quite unsocial and a very bad situation imho. This makes me recall when they nerfed his armour a looong time ago. Could've at least buffed our speed to 1.10 or something. Ideally 1.15, but I'll take whatever they'll throw at me at this point.

As I've stated before, if I only had 1 change I could ask for, it would be this.

[(PSN)Silverback73]

I meant invinciwall as in you can shoot it as much as you want and it'll never go down. Ever. It's only going to go down if the duration runs out, and that's it.

The whole "explosions going through walls" thing applies to every wall. No really.

My point, which you are making, is that it is great but far from foolproof. It must be used selectively with mobility and limited coverage. At high levels with 15 armor and relatively low health, his 4 stun locks most but not all the time as Cyrus pointed out. These along with his 4 casting animation make him vulnerable to being one-shotted much easier than most frames save, perhaps, Nova, who compensates with a spectacular AoE combo of Utility and Damage. At 15, Volt's armor isn't even worth modding, because then you take from his Utility and defense in other areas.

I like the challenge of playing him as is; I'm not asking for Oberon's health or Valkyr 's armor :). But Volt IS "squishy" and you have to adjust for it and accept it. Thanks again for the continued dialogue. :)

Edited February 19, 2015 by (PS4)Silverback73

[LascarCapable]

Thread cleaned.

 

Overload is indeed very lackluster. Making it a more powerfull CC skil would be kinda nice IMO. First, let it instantly reach its range. Then allow electric componements being reusable. Last, improve the CC duration : electric procs are kinda very short when it's about stunning targets, and may not be efficient enough by their own. When I use shock, targets usually recover pretty quickly : while I think this is enough for shock by its own, I think Overload deserves more.

 

Volt is in a pretty good state as it is. I don't usually agree on buffing him, but I admit one thing : Overload needs a but to make it worth the use. This is strictly the same with Mag's Crush by the way, except that Mag is not really in the same good state than Volt.

[RealPandemonium]

Volt is in a pretty good state as it is. I don't usually agree on buffing him, but I admit one thing : Overload needs a but to make it worth the use. This is strictly the same with Mag's Crush by the way, except that Mag is not really in the same good state than Volt.

Overload does fine damage to non-Grineer (thanks armor scaling!) and offers a useful stun in addition to having potentially high damage based on clumping.  It's fine that it has a brief startup animation and doesn't hit everything immediately.  If other 4s weren't brainless spam moves we would have no problem with Volt's; this is a case of being spoiled by dumb design that rewards sloppy play that doesn't require thought, not the ability being bad.  If all 4s that are currently spammy radial nukes were more like Overload the game would be in a better place, at least for now.  

 

Crush is literally only good at finishing off (sometimes) Corpus that survive SP.  It has no other use besides killing trash mobs at lower levels of the solar system, to say nothing of medium level Grineer.  It does less damage and ccs less than Overload does, in addition to having lower range and a worse damage type.  Its startup is a little safer but it leaves Mag wide open to attacks afterward, negating this advantage entirely.  The stupid thing is, Mag is retardely overpowered against anything shielded regardless of Crush's weak state, to the point that infinite content exploiters and BEST BUILD-ers will generally choose Mag over Volt when it comes down to it.  

[LazyKnight]

Buff 2: Armor goes from 15 to 65 or even 115.

 

Issue with buff idea #2, getting a little more armor will not help all that much. Just as an example for that armor range: The difference from a level 30 Excalibur (65 armor) compared to a Excalibur with am maxed steel fiber (136 armor) is barely noticeable (one or two minor NPC hits). If Volt got a buff to 65 the difference would be hard to discern from a placebo, yet if he got a buff to 115 it would get rid of that squishy feel, but might make him too good. 

 

It could be better to ask DE to evaluate the overall durability of all Warframes, and not just Volt. All but 2 Warframes are squishy(only considering up to Pluto's NPCs) without using a skill to mitigate that factor.

 

The buff I would ask for Volt prime would be a small speed boost. The problem with polarities is DE can give one that is not needed or is a hindrance to your build.

Edited February 19, 2015 by LazyKnight

[cyrus106]

Soma Prime is crap, it has no damage and doesn't red crit; completely pointless prime weapon.  If you're gonna give me a crit weapon make it RED CRIT.

 

See what I did there?

no, because soma is actually a good weapon, and your example is asking for more damage. My example is not

[RealPandemonium]

Armor and sprint speed might as well not be stats at this point.  All they ever do is cause players to complain that frames don't have enough of them but the frames that do have them have no real distinction as a result except for slightly higher usability (obviously Valkyr is an outlier here.)  1.15 Sprint speed and 150 armor should be the new baseline for all frames, IMO, though armor would largely remain a bandaid for most of the cast.  At the very least, an armor buff would make Life Strike and QT/Rage builds slightly better on the affected frames.  

Edited February 19, 2015 by RealPandemonium

[RealPandemonium]

no, because soma is actually a good weapon, and your example is asking for more damage. My example is not

My point is that you can say repeatedly that something is bad because REASONS but that doesn't actually make it bad.  In this case the things that make Overload "bad" are broken armor scaling and the availability of instant win 4 buttons.  Asking for a pure CC Overload will lower Volt's direct-damage potential (bad and unnecessary) while also likely creating another gameplay-eliminating godmode ability (very bad and gameplay-numbing.)  We don't need more Stomps and Radial Disarms, which is what the Overload would become if you got your wish.  

 

There also seems to be a fallacy circulating among players where it comes to frame design.  Some frames are branded as "damage" while others are branded as "CC" or "utility."  Frames don't have to overtly have a "focus" like that.  I facepalm when I read things like "Vauban should have the damage taken off Tesla so he can have more CC" or "Overload should have stronger CC and negiligible damage because Volt is a utility frame."  Every frame's abilities should be moderately effective in all situations and very effective in niche situations.  Overload satisfies this principle, though tweaks and polish are always welcome.  Almost entirely changing its paradigm to make it more exploitable for farmers and infinite content players doesn't make sense and would definitely be a blow to the game's overall health in the long run.  

Edited February 19, 2015 by RealPandemonium

[cyrus106]

My point is that you can say repeatedly that something is bad because REASONS but that doesn't actually make it bad.  In this case the things that make Overload "bad" are broken armor scaling and the avilability instant win 4 buttons.  Asking for a pure CC Overload will lower Volt's direct-damage potential (bad and unnecessary) while also likely creating another gameplay-eliminating godmode ability (very bad and gameplay-numbing.)  We don't need more Stomps and Radial Disarms, which is what the Overload would become if you got your wish.  

 

There also seems to be a fallacy circulating among players where it comes to frame design.  Some frames are branded as "damage" while others are branded as "CC" or "utility."  Frames don't have to overtly have a "focus" like that.  I facepalm when I read things like "Vauban should have the damage taken off Tesla so he can have more CC" or "Overload should have stronger CC and negiligible damage because Volt is a utility frame."  Every frame's abilities should be moderately effective in all situations and very effective in niche situations.  Overload satisfies this principle, though tweaks and polish are always welcome.  Almost entirely changing its paradigm to make it more exploitable for farmers and infinite content players doesn't make sense and would definitely be a blow to the game's overall health in the long run.

(your example still sucked, but regardless).

If its so bad for the game's health, what do you propose? And "its fine the way it is" isn't a valid response, its a terrible ultimate atm. Give some feedback instead of just playing devil's advocate

[RealPandemonium]

(your example still sucked, but regardless).

If its so bad for the game's health, what do you propose? And "its fine the way it is" isn't a valid response, its a terrible ultimate atm. Give some feedback instead of just playing devil's advocate

Fix armor scaling and make the other 4 powers not as stupid.  Overload's radial nature is balanced by its cast time and conditional bonus damage (not talking about electronics, but enemy pack density.)  Stuff like RJ and Miasma is just "lol, I messed up but it's ok because I can press 4 to kill or disable everything in the room," if not "I'm gonna kill everything on the map with one button!" If RJ required line of sight and fired actual javelins again (but actually fix it) and Miasma wasn't a "thousands of damage for free!" power then Overload wouldn't be obsolete by comparison.  The key here is that Overload is "bad" by comparison to other abilities and not because it is actually bad.  

[cyrus106]

Fix armor scaling and make the other 4 powers not as stupid. Overload's radial nature is balanced by its cast time and conditional bonus damage (not talking about electronics, but enemy pack density.) Stuff like RJ and Miasma is just "lol, I messed up but it's ok because I can press 4 to kill or disable everything in the room," if not "I'm gonna kill everything on the map with one button!" If RJ required line of sight and fired actual javelins again (but actually fix it) and Miasma wasn't a "thousands of damage for free!" power then Overload wouldn't be obsolete by comparison. The key here is that Overload is "bad" by comparison to other abilities and not because it is actually bad.

I already made a topic about how armor scaling is terrible and people basically ignored it. Can you believe people think it's FINE to have a 4x corrosive proj meta?

Also valid point about the bonus damage for crowded enemies, perhaps others abilities need more balance. Doesnt change the fact that my favorite frame's ultimate feels lacking. And DE doesnt give me the impression that they will balance abilities any time soon

Edited February 19, 2015 by cyrus106

[RealPandemonium]

I already made a topic about how armor scaling is terrible and people basically ignored it. Can you believe people think it's FINE to have a 4x corrosive proj meta?

Also valid point about the bonus damage for crowded enemies, perhaps others abilities need more balance. Doesnt change the fact that my favorite frame's ultimate feels lacking. And DE doesnt give me the impression that they will balance abilities any time soon

I feel ya but I'm not ready to give up on this game yet balance-wise.  If they keep buffing everything there won't even be a game anymore.  It'll just become a casino like all the f2p cell phone games out there, which would be a horrible conclusion for one of the most promising games I've ever seen.  If the game enters a hole like that pulling it out will probably be impossible and certainly unprofitable for DE due to the shift in expectations.  

[Archistopheles]

Buff 1: Base Speed stays at 1.0 but his #2 becomes "shocking speed" without needing a mod.

It'll never happen. Sorry.

[(PSN)Silverback73]

I already made a topic about how armor scaling is terrible and people basically ignored it. Can you believe people think it's FINE to have a 4x corrosive proj meta?

Also valid point about the bonus damage for crowded enemies, perhaps others abilities need more balance. Doesnt change the fact that my favorite frame's ultimate feels lacking. And DE doesnt give me the impression that they will balance abilities any time soon

One extra "tick" of damage is something I bet both you and RP could get on board with, yes, cyrus? It gives a bit more damage AND split-second stun extension without changing mechanics or creating the "Spam4win!" situation RP is averse to. It would probably be a relatively easy hot fix also.

So do you both agree that a base speed increase and one extra tick on Overload (4 to 5) is something you 2 could agree upon?

Edited February 19, 2015 by (PS4)Silverback73

[cyrus106]

One extra "tick" of damage is something I bet both you and RP could get on board with, yes, Cyrus. It gives a bit more damage AND split-second stun extension without changing mechanics or creating the "Spam4win!" situation RP is averse to. It would probably be a relatively easy hot fix also.

So do you both agree that a base speed increase and one extra tick on Overload (4 to 5) is something you 2 could agree upon?

I could roll with that, they just need to patch the electric proc being so buggy and I'd be satisfied

[taiiat]

everything you suggested for Volt is unfounded statcrepe, therefore absolutely not.

there is one thing that Volt is very much hurting for. Electric Status, like Fire Status and all of the rest, the stun is unreliable. depending on Animation State Enemies can choose to ignore Status Stuns.

this is not something the Player can expect, as few Enemies that can ignore Status Stuns telegraph the actions that do so.

so Status Stuns need to be more reliable. once that's the case, there is one actual intrinsic problem to Volt - Overload lacks the capability to use Electronic Devices to create additional (much more powerful than the Ability on it's own) sources of Electrical Energy. because they just don't exist in 99% of situations, and when they do exist, they're only one use.

make them more plentiful and reusable, and i'll be content with Volt, even if i think Speed can be annoying at times.

Edit:

Volt doesn't need a higher Sprint Speed, because he has Speed. that's part of why he has the Ability in the first place.

Volt doesn't need a high Armor Rating. none of his Abilities recommend that he be close to Enemies most of the time, ergo taking Damage is not something you're supposed to do.

Edited February 19, 2015 by taiiat

[flamedance58]

Well the abilities aren't going to be changed when he gets Primed.

 

If anything he'll get slight adjustments to his skills or get some nice new Augment mods but def' that Overload needs a overhaul as it's pretty lackluster and almost always only useful if you got stuff to set off it's extra ability.

 

If anything I can see:

 

+ Movement Speed

+ Stamina / Energy

 

Likely won't see an armour buff as Nova didn't get on when she got Primed and would think that Volt is similar being a support frame.

[(PSN)Silverback73]

Well the abilities aren't going to be changed when he gets Primed.

If anything he'll get slight adjustments to his skills or get some nice new Augment mods but def' that Overload needs a overhaul as it's pretty lackluster and almost always only useful if you got stuff to set off it's extra ability.

If anything I can see:

+ Movement Speed

+ Stamina / Energy

Likely won't see an armour buff as Nova didn't get on when she got Primed and would think that Volt is similar being a support frame.

Thanks for the input! I see him following Nyx Prime's path...we will see :)

Edited February 19, 2015 by (PS4)Silverback73

[-SLX-J3tAc3]

 

 

 

 

 

 

Well the abilities aren't going to be changed when he gets Primed.

 

If anything he'll get slight adjustments to his skills or get some nice new Augment mods but def' that Overload needs a overhaul as it's pretty lackluster and almost always only useful if you got stuff to set off it's extra ability.

 

If anything I can see:

 

+ Movement Speed

+ Stamina / Energy

 

Likely won't see an armour buff as Nova didn't get on when she got Primed and would think that Volt is similar being a support frame.

Volt is not a support frame. That's the whole issue. He is a high-damage frame - he is not "fine" as others have said. Read the codex entry:

"Volt can create and harness electrical elements. This is a high-damage warframe perfect for players looking for a potent alternative to gunplay."

Potent means "having great power." Yeah, he's supposed to be a walking powerhouse (gunplay includes any gun you can come up with, including boltor prime, etc). If you can clear a room with your boltor prime in about 5 seconds, Volt should be able to do it in four or less.

This shows how badly made he is, that players think he's supposed to be a jack-of-all-trades or support frame, not a highly offensive frame. Volt needs to be reworked, or his codex entry changed.

This inconsistency with character codex entry and its actual stats is causing needless confusion.

Edited February 19, 2015 by -SLX-J3tAc3

[cyrus106]

I adore his speed boost and electric shield so I'd prefer to keep their utility

[RealPandemonium]

One extra "tick" of damage is something I bet both you and RP could get on board with, yes, cyrus? It gives a bit more damage AND split-second stun extension without changing mechanics or creating the "Spam4win!" situation RP is averse to. It would probably be a relatively easy hot fix also.

So do you both agree that a base speed increase and one extra tick on Overload (4 to 5) is something you 2 could agree upon?

Overload only really ticks 3 times as the initial tick has a short range and usually does low damage due to enemies being too far away.  Boosting the range of the initial tick to its full range but with the same damage algorithm (applied over a greater distance and thus increasing the initial tick's average damage as most enemies aren't at max range when you cast) would make Overload more reliable and allow you a reliable damage increase by getting closer.  The initial damage tick also headshots, so making it stronger and more reliable will add more damage to the average cast of Overload than you think.  Base speed increase makes sense and should probably just apply to most frames as things get much more flexible parkour-wise when your base speed is a little higher than the baseline.

[(PSN)Silverback73]

everything you suggested for Volt is unfounded statcrepe, therefore absolutely not.

there is one thing that Volt is very much hurting for. Electric Status, like Fire Status and all of the rest, the stun is unreliable. depending on Animation State Enemies can choose to ignore Status Stuns.

this is not something the Player can expect, as few Enemies that can ignore Status Stuns telegraph the actions that do so.

so Status Stuns need to be more reliable. once that's the case, there is one actual intrinsic problem to Volt - Overload lacks the capability to use Electronic Devices to create additional (much more powerful than the Ability on it's own) sources of Electrical Energy. because they just don't exist in 99% of situations, and when they do exist, they're only one use.

make them more plentiful and reusable, and i'll be content with Volt, even if i think Speed can be annoying at times.

Edit:

Volt doesn't need a higher Sprint Speed, because he has Speed. that's part of why he has the Ability in the first place.

Volt doesn't need a high Armor Rating. none of his Abilities recommend that he be close to Enemies most of the time, ergo taking Damage is not something you're supposed to do.

Speed is a group dynamic power often used to get from one objective to another. Casting Speed and watching your 3 squad members run away from you based on the multiplier is borderline ridiculous, so I disagree. You have Volt players going so far as to nerf AoE to avoid the group breakdown that occurs, which suggests it is broken. You reward them with Speed and they reward you by leaving you behind to fend for yourself. You can't even use it on just yourself to catch up to players with greater base speed! Loki players are the worst offenders. :). master race and all that. If you want a compromise, have all members affected CAP OUT at the same speed and/or give us an AoE toggle. Edited February 19, 2015 by (PS4)Silverback73

[-SLX-J3tAc3]

^

I like this.

[Vargras]

But Volt IS "squishy" and you have to adjust for it and accept it. Thanks again for the continued dialogue. :)

I'm not going to accept it because he really isn't. Volt's got a strong shield modifier (so you should definitely be modding for it), Electric Shield to block shots, and Speed to help him dodge. He's surprisingly durable.