The Other Side Of The Synoid

[Ironlixivium]

     Good job, DE. The way you handled the synoid gammacor was very creative, keeping the dps exactly where it is but lowering the efficiency. Please keep it how it is, it's perfectly balanced now. 

 

For clarification, I've noticed there are many false rumors going around about the synoid nerf:

 

     "It's the worst syndicate weapon now"

 

-It still has the highest dps of them all.

 

     "It's worse than than the normal gammacor now"

 

-only in ammo efficiency, it still has a much higher dps (420 compared to 250)

 

     "The normal gammacor has a higher sustained dps"

 

-only if you don't use ammo mutation, the clip lasts just as long (10 seconds) as the synoid.

 

     "It's a terrible weapon now"

 

-It has a very high dps for a secondary still, and has a clip that lasts just as long as the boltor prime. The range isn't that bad for a continuous weapon, roughly the effective range of the boltor prime (again). you'll need a few ammo restores for long missions, but that's not, and shouldn't uncommon for such high dps weapons.

[Jahadaya]

-only in ammo efficiency, it still has a much higher dps (420 compared to 250)

I guess you could call it... the blaze it gun.

 

( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

[BirdOfSong]

Oh people still arent happy with the Gammacore? You should be. It hasn't been put under the same microscope as trinity yet. 

[[DE]Momaw]

Make you a deal:

 

Get rid of armor scaling so that the entire team is not required to take corrosive projection any time we face high level enemies with armor. That way, players will have an actual choice of which aura they want to use, one of those choices being Pistol Ammo Scavenger.  If you do that, I'll say that the Synoid's absolutely horrifying ammo consumption is acceptable because there would be a realistic counter to it.

 

Until then....  You must have corrosive projection, therefore, you cannot have Scavenger auras, and weapons must have good damage:ammo ratio in order to be viable.

[UltimateSpinDash]

Make you a deal:

 

Get rid of armor scaling so that the entire team is not required to take corrosive projection any time we face high level enemies with armor. That way, players will have an actual choice of which aura they want to use, one of those choices being Pistol Ammo Scavenger.  If you do that, I'll say that the Synoid's absolutely horrifying ammo consumption is acceptable because there would be a realistic counter to it.

 

Until then....  You must have corrosive projection, therefore, you cannot have Scavenger auras, and weapons must have good damage:ammo ratio in order to be viable.

DE cannot balance around the infinite scaling, which is why something needs to be done. Also, there is (Primed) Pistol Ammo Mutation.

 

The reaction to the Synoid nerf shows to me how spoiled this community is when it comes to power. From my ME3 (Multiplayer) times, I remember that best (contested by a few though) Assault Rifle also had the least spare ammo, so you had to go to an Ammo Box on a regular basis. And on the highest difficulty, those boxes contained less ammo than usual.

Guess what, there were still people saying that it was OP.

[Silverton]

Well instead of having 3 end game weapons to pick from (Synoid, Boltor P, and Soma P) I now have two primaries I can pick and then pick up any random secondary to use.

[SquirmyBurrito]

     Good job, DE. The way you handled the synoid gammacor was very creative, keeping the dps exactly where it is but lowering the efficiency. Please keep it how it is, it's perfectly balanced now. 

 

For clarification, I've noticed there are many false rumors going around about the synoid nerf:

 

     "It's the worst syndicate weapon now"

 

-It still has the highest dps of them all.

 

     "It's worse than than the normal gammacor now"

 

-only in ammo efficiency, it still has a much higher dps (420 compared to 250)

 

     "The normal gammacor has a higher sustained dps"

 

-only if you don't use ammo mutation, the clip lasts just as long (10 seconds) as the synoid.

 

     "It's a terrible weapon now"

 

-It has a very high dps for a secondary still, and has a clip that lasts just as long as the boltor prime. The range isn't that bad for a continuous weapon, roughly the effective range of the boltor prime (again). you'll need a few ammo restores for long missions, but that's not, and shouldn't uncommon for such high dps weapons.

 

While the DPS is the same, the method of delivery makes it nigh-unusable later on. It is far from balanced right now.

 

Usability-wise, it is among the worst.

 

Ammo efficiency is pretty damn important, but I don't see how SG is worse than the standard gammacor.

 

See above.

 

It IS a terrible weapon now. High DPS that begins to tank later on due to it being a high RoF low DpB weapon is a very bad thing. If your Boltor Prime's effective range is just 25m you need to up your game. It has infinite range, you shouldn't be having trouble shooting enemies that are at 50m. No, with the SG you'll need A) numerous ammo restores (not just a few). B) Mutation mods (that result in lower than max dps) and the pistol ammo aura. Ammo economy should never be the main way a weapon is balanced because it effectively turns into a counter for how long you can enjoy yourself before you're forced to put it away and play with something else. That goes against the idea behind letting us equip just one weapon (in this case, the SG). Why should most weapons be okay for solo equipping, but the SG and other weapons with terrible ammo economy shouldn't?

 

DE cannot balance around the infinite scaling, which is why something needs to be done. Also, there is (Primed) Pistol Ammo Mutation.

 

The reaction to the Synoid nerf shows to me how spoiled this community is when it comes to power. From my ME3 (Multiplayer) times, I remember that best (contested by a few though) Assault Rifle also had the least spare ammo, so you had to go to an Ammo Box on a regular basis. And on the highest difficulty, those boxes contained less ammo than usual.

Guess what, there were still people saying that it was OP.

 

Yes, but they can and should be balancing at least up to level 80. Ammo mutation mods are already band-aid mods, priming one of them doesn't make it any better. Having to spend all those ducats, cores, and credits to get and max the primed pistol ammo mutation mod just so that the SG is moderately usable outside high armor situations is a massive kick in the teeth.

[taiiat]

again, if i'd chosen the numbers it would have been 40 * 9. with Lethal Torrent that would then put it just slightly shy of the default RoF it has now.

which would still be pretty high.

it's possible the stat choices did not take into account Lethal Torrent, which for better or for worse (mostly worse IMO) is a required Mod.

Mass Effect 3 talk

Cerberus Harrier, by any chance?

or maybe the Falcon?

or perhaps Reegar Carbine. ('Shotgun' :p)

Mass Effect 3 Multiplayer is much fun, and i still play it sometimes. but i was never really part of the community for it. so i know little about what people thought of the Equipment.

Edited April 3, 2015 by taiiat

[Ironlixivium]

Make you a deal:

 

Get rid of armor scaling so that the entire team is not required to take corrosive projection any time we face high level enemies with armor. That way, players will have an actual choice of which aura they want to use, one of those choices being Pistol Ammo Scavenger.  If you do that, I'll say that the Synoid's absolutely horrifying ammo consumption is acceptable because there would be a realistic counter to it.

 

Until then....  You must have corrosive projection, therefore, you cannot have Scavenger auras, and weapons must have good damage:ammo ratio in order to be viable.

Although that's a completely different matter, I agree with you.

[UltimateSpinDash]

Cerberus Harrier, by any chance?

or maybe the Falcon?

or perhaps Reegar Carbine. ('Shotgun' :p)

Mass Effect 3 Multiplayer is much fun, and i still play it sometimes. but i was never really part of the community for it. so i know little about what people thought of the Equipment.

Cerberus Harrier. I don't think people complained about the Falcon, or talked much about it in general.

Reegar Carbine was also a popular "nerf it" candidate. However, since getting up close to enemies was dangerous (since some could insta-kill you), it didn't need a nerf and didn't get one either.

[Monolake]

Speaking of worst syndicate weapon: Secura Dual Cestras are pretty bad, poor economy, very poor accuracy, recoil, and worse DPS than Synoid/Rakta/Akboltos. 

Castanas have laughable ammo reserve - only 30 of 'sniper' ammo, they are absolutely unusable w/o ammo mutation mod. 

Keep in mind that Akbolto got nerfed with global 10 shot per sec cap on semi-auto!!!   (they have 16 shot per sec with Lethal Torrent alone)

[Ironlixivium]

Speaking of worst syndicate weapon: Secura Dual Cestras are pretty bad, poor economy, very poor accuracy, recoil, and worse DPS than Synoid/Rakta/Akboltos. 

Castanas have laughable ammo reserve - only 30 of 'sniper' ammo, they are absolutely unusable w/o ammo mutation mod. 

Keep in mind that Akbolto got nerfed with global 10 shot per sec cap on semi-auto!!!   (they have 16 shot per sec with Lethal Torrent alone)

I agree, but at least now, they have better ammo efficiency than the synoid....barely :/

[Monolake]

I agree, but at least now, they have better ammo efficiency than the synoid....barely :/

 

Cestras? No, they do less damage per ammo and the terrible accuracy means they waste lots of ammo too.

[ShardsSuperior]

I agree, but at least now, they have better ammo efficiency than the synoid....barely :/

Actually... SDC do have a slightly higher damage per shot. But the supplementary crit stats mean that their effective damage per shot is basically equal (at base, it's like, 30.8 for SG and 30.75 for SDC).

But faster fire rate means SG has more DPS, and much better sustained damage.

[Davoodoo]

    "The normal gammacor has a higher sustained dps"

 

-only if you don't use ammo mutation, the clip lasts just as long (10 seconds) as the synoid.

 

I ran the tests, even with ammo mutation on synoid, without primed and magnum synoid still came out higher in sustained dps compared to regular cranked for max possible dps.

Edited April 3, 2015 by Davoodoo

[Ironlixivium]

Actually... SDC do have a slightly higher damage per shot. But the supplementary crit stats mean that their effective damage per shot is basically equal (at base, it's like, 30.8 for SG and 30.75 for SDC).

But faster fire rate means SG has more DPS, and much better sustained damage.

 

     Lol, well that sucks :/ I thought at least I could enjoy how the secura do 30 damage per shot compared to synoid's 28 :/ I knew the entire time synoid had better dps though (420 vs 375 not counting crits) of course then you have to take in accuracy (or if you use steady hands, the damage you lost by not using a damage mod there). I was just trying to enjoy a minor victory, but I guess it's far less than I thought it was...

[[DE]Momaw]

On the other hand, the Securas have a proc that's actually useful and relevant. So there's that.

[ShardsSuperior]

On the other hand, the Securas have a proc that's actually useful and relevant. So there's that.

Secura do Radiation damage, which is really only good against Alloy armored Grineer (Shields resist it a little and the infested resist it a lot)

Magnetic is resisted by only Alloy armored Grineer and has pretty hefty bonuses against Corpus

On the other hand... Magnetic status proc affect only Corpus and sometimes Corrupted. Radiation status affects everything.

 

But Synoid restores energy, while Secura restores shields -,-'

[FloraGreen]

Now that we have started nerfing, to make things balanced.

I say we should double boltor primes ammo/sec and halfen its damage/bullet. Then it will be fairly balanced, cause then you need to add ammo mutation to it. 

And lets make soma prime mastery rank 6 at least maybe more just to make some sense that the normal soma is Rank 6. Soma prime got way too much damage for a rank 0 weapon. Boltor prime could use a change to mastery rank too (make it rank 6).

[UltimateSpinDash]

Now that we have started nerfing, to make things balanced.

I say we should double boltor primes ammo/sec and halfen its damage/bullet. Then it will be fairly balanced, cause then you need to add ammo mutation to it. 

And lets make soma prime mastery rank 6 at least maybe more just to make some sense that the normal soma is Rank 6. Soma prime got way too much damage for a rank 0 weapon. Boltor prime could use a change to mastery rank too (make it rank 6).

Pretty sure Soma Prime has MR6, if you see people below that rank running around with it, they got it through Nova PA.

Boltor Prime should also be higher Mastery though.

[FloraGreen]

Pretty sure Soma Prime has MR6, if you see people below that rank running around with it, they got it through Nova PA.

Boltor Prime should also be higher Mastery though.

 

oh then they have changed its mastery rank because back when it came out you could build it as a rank 2. Didn't see they changed it.

[Racter]

Now that we have started nerfing, to make things balanced.

I say we should double boltor primes ammo/sec and halfen its damage/bullet. Then it will be fairly balanced, cause then you need to add ammo mutation to it. 

And lets make soma prime mastery rank 6 at least maybe more just to make some sense that the normal soma is Rank 6. Soma prime got way too much damage for a rank 0 weapon. Boltor prime could use a change to mastery rank too (make it rank 6).

I don't understand posts like this. By level 80-100 the damage per shot is already too low to even use full auto rifles because the ammo economy is too bad. Do you want the Boltor and Soma to be worse than the rest of the rifles no one uses? If so, just come out and say that, and don't pretend it's balancing.

 

All the Prime rifles last within 5m/waves of each other in endless missions currently. Most of the normal weapons are not much better/worse than that if you also potato and put the equivalent number of forma into them. The only reason they feel like they fall off earlier is their damage types almost universally being primarily slash, which suffers a higher armor penalty. Go try them in a group with 4x CP. Braton P vs Boltor P, there is basically no difference in practice.

[(PSN)WiiConquered]

I don't understand posts like this. By level 80-100 the damage per shot is already too low to even use full auto rifles because the ammo economy is too bad. Do you want the Boltor and Soma to be worse than the rest of the rifles no one uses? If so, just come out and say that, and don't pretend it's balancing.

 

All the Prime rifles last within 5m/waves of each other in endless missions currently. Most of the normal weapons are not much better/worse than that if you also potato and put the equivalent number of forma into them. The only reason they feel like they fall off earlier is their damage types almost universally being primarily slash, which suffers a higher armor penalty. Go try them in a group with 4x CP. Braton P vs Boltor P, there is basically no difference in practice.

 

All the Prime rifles last within 5m of each other because in those 5 minutes the enemies triple in effective health (which is why endless scaling needs to go, but that's beside the point). But for the 35-40 minutes before that point, Soma and Boltor Prime cut through enemies like butter, and most of the rest don't.

[Racter]

All the Prime rifles last within 5m of each other because in those 5 minutes the enemies triple in effective health (which is why endless scaling needs to go, but that's beside the point). But for the 35-40 minutes before that point, Soma and Boltor Prime cut through enemies like butter, and most of the rest don't.

 

This is just really not true. They are literally almost identical with Corrosive Projection despite the large base damage gaps. I don't disagree that the current enemy scaling gets a bit ridiculous but if you take the same set of forma and basically the exact same mods from a Boltor P and put them on a Braton P, run 4x CP so the Braton being slash doesn't matter, you will see what I'm talking about. They are all OP up until 40, mediocre to bad 40-50 then completely useless afterward lol

[(PSN)WiiConquered]

This is just really not true. They are literally almost identical with Corrosive Projection despite the large base damage gaps. I don't disagree that the current enemy scaling gets a bit ridiculous but if you take the same set of forma and basically the exact same mods from a Boltor P and put them on a Braton P, run 4x CP so the Braton being slash doesn't matter, you will see what I'm talking about. They are all OP up until 40, mediocre to bad 40-50 then completely useless afterward lol

 

If this were the case, Soma Prime and Braton Prime should feel identical. They don't.