Why Is A Bolto Better Than Akjagaras?

[(PSN)fizzer94]

...

I just made these guns yesterday, and after using them enough to get a feel of them, I can conclude that the Boltos, and the Akboltos, that I used to built them are better than the finished product.

I was able to bring a level 14 Bolto to 25 minutes in a T2 Survival, but the level 18 Akjagara has trouble at 25 minutes on Apollodorus, Mercury...

Even accounting for damage types, this just seems wrong.

They feel like a pure downgrade compared to the weapons I had before, and I honestly regret making them.

I was actually quite pleasantly impressed with the Boltos, and I really liked them, which only made me more excited for the Akjagara. So impressed actually, that I'd didn't hesitate to potato them right after I built them... something I never even did with the Boltos.

So why are they so bad? Shouldn't they at least be better than their component weapons, even if it is not by much?

Edited April 4, 2015 by (PS4)fizzer94

[Lancars]

[Redacted]

Edited April 4, 2015 by Lancars

[(PSN)freakyassassin24]

I actually really liked them. Also you should compare them more to the akvasto then anything because of the damage similarities.

[(PSN)fizzer94]

I actually really liked them. Also you should compare them more to the akvasto then anything because of the damage similarities.

Then why aren't they built with the Akvastos instead?

No. They should be compared with the Akboltos, since that is what it used to make them.

Why even bother to built these things if they are worse than their components? Especially since they take 2-3 days and more resources than some Prime weapons?

[direcyphre]

I liked Akjagaras as well, personally. They don't really compare to boltos because they are hitscan with a different damage type; the type  of enemies you face in a mission will change how effective a weapon is based on damage type. They are different, but by no means worse. The only real downside is the recoil which isn't that present in the Magnus/Vasto series.

 

I mean, I don't quite understand their current fascination with building weapons with other weapons, but its not as if boltos and the like are difficult to make in the first place.

[TrinityPrime]

They're bad because they're pistols with huge blades on them which you can't use to stab things in the face while shooting their face, in the face.

[Kaotyke]

I like them, but they are the first weapon I had to put Steady Hands on.

[(PSN)fizzer94]

...but its not as if boltos and the like are difficult to make in the first place.

Yeah, I'm actually considering making another pair of Akboltos just because I liked them so much more.

I'll probably hold on to the Jagaras, because I did put a Tater on them, and I feel they'll get buffed someday...

[J1ffyLub3]

i like the akjagara a lot better than the boltos

[fatpig84]

Yeah, I'm actually considering making another pair of Akboltos just because I liked them so much more.

I'll probably hold on to the Jagaras, because I did put a Tater on them, and I feel they'll get buffed someday...

 

Get the Telos Akbolto 

[pepsi-tan]

Because DE doesn't know how to balance their own weapons.

[Orbister]

Akjagara has 20 percent status chance, that's quite high, do you even read stats? also you can't really compare two weapons unless you have forma'd them enough times to fit all the max rank mods you want in them.

 

Also, you used Akbolto not Bolto to make the Akjagara

 

And weapon rank means NOTHING because you get NOTHING from it, it only raises the amount of mod points.

Edited April 4, 2015 by Orbister

[(PSN)fizzer94]

Get the Telos Akbolto

I'll probably do that...

I can say that I will miss the appearance of the Jagaras. In my opinion, they look much better than any of the other handguns in the game.

[DraccoDoom]

I like them, but they are the first weapon I had to put Steady Hands on.

LOL true, I did the same and I'm happy I did, this made me like it more, the kick that they had was just to much, I misses shoots because if it.

[Tulzscha]

General Discussion isn't the place for feedback threads, please read and understand:

 

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/318374-please-read-before-posting-threads-what-is-and-isnt-general-discussion/

 

Moved to the proper section.

[RexRgisIocus]

I don't know, I personally prefer the AkJagaras over the AkBoltos. AkJagara has more dps even with steady hands on iirc and more status as well as its hitscan so it means less bullets missed which equals more actual dps.

[egregiousRac]

LOL true, I did the same and I'm happy I did, this made me like it more, the kick that they had was just to much, I misses shoots because if it.

 

For me the kick is the best part. They are my second-favourite secondary for that very reason.

First-favourite: Mara/Detron. That thing hits the ceiling if you don't control it properly. The AkJagara are the only weapon that comes close to comparing.

 

It may just come from my introduction to FPS being Counterstrike (which I was never all that good at anyway), but I love controlling recoil. It is my opinion that any shooter is improved by replacing random bullet cones with proper recoil whenever possible. It is just more fun.

Edited April 4, 2015 by egregiousRac

[Hatzeputt]

80% status, 2k+ trigger pull damage, hit scan, ok mag size and ok reload, what is there not to like? It could use a little recoil reduction I will admit but other than that they are not a bad pair of guns quite the contrary, just mod them accordingly. 

[Ralsk]

Ok there are a few issues with the way this was carried out. 

I was able to bring a level 14 Bolto to 25 minutes in a T2 Survival, but the level 18 Akjagara has trouble at 25 minutes on Apollodorus, Mercury...
Even accounting for damage types, this just seems wrong.

First off, if you're going to test something, do it in the same place with the same enemies (and then preferably multiple locations to try different enemies) and second, we don't know what kind of mods you are running on these which could also make a difference here since you list their ranks and since they aren't the same they are not on equal footing for what they could equip.

 

Then why aren't they built with the Akvastos instead?

No. They should be compared with the Akboltos, since that is what it used to make them.
Why even bother to built these things if they are worse than their components? Especially since they take 2-3 days and more resources than some Prime weapons?

And this.  No, just no.  You should compare weapons with other weapons with similar damage types, not based on what makes the weapon.  You can't take a slash weapon and a puncture weapon and expect them to perform the same on the same enemy type, especially in the situations you listed where you were facing primarily armored targets and so the Bolto would have an advantage with it's puncture damage.

Edited April 4, 2015 by Ralsk

[MirageKnight]

I really want to like the Akjagara...but the recoil, accuracy, and underwhelming audio fx just kill it for me. Add to the mix that the Akvasto has comparable damage and such and .... yeah. For the time and resources I put into this weapon, I expected something more appealing to use. They're not even worth the effort ranking up for me - I tossed mine at rank 4.

 

If you guys like them - hey, great. I just feel that Akvastos are way more enjoyable to use.

[(PSN)WiiConquered]

Ok there are a few issues with the way this was carried out. 

First off, if you're going to test something, do it in the same place with the same enemies (and then preferably multiple locations to try different enemies) and second, we don't know what kind of mods you are running on these which could also make a difference here since you list their ranks and since they aren't the same they are not on equal footing for what they could equip.

 

And this.  No, just no.  You should compare weapons with other weapons with similar damage types, not based on what makes the weapon.  You can't take a slash weapon and a puncture weapon and expect them to perform the same on the same enemy type, especially in the situations you listed where you were facing primarily armored targets and so the Bolto would have an advantage with it's puncture damage.

 

Fair enough on the testing, but you're wrong about comparing weapons to their components. Fine, the AKJagara isn't too much like the Boltos. But why, then, would you need to use Boltos to make them? It makes sense when we use a Nikana to make a Dragon Nikana; it's a direct upgrade and doesn't make us feel like we wasted a weapon. But the only people who would use a weapon to build a side-grade are high level players using it for mastery fodder. Weapons based on others need to be direct upgrades of their parts.

[RexRgisIocus]

I really want to like the Akjagara...but the recoil, accuracy, and underwhelming audio fx just kill it for me. Add to the mix that the Akvasto has comparable damage and such and .... yeah. For the time and resources I put into this weapon, I expected something more appealing to use. They're not even worth the effort ranking up for me - I tossed mine at rank 4.

 

If you guys like them - hey, great. I just feel that Akvastos are way more enjoyable to use.

 

They might have comparable damage but you are forgetting AkJagaras status chance. That thing spews procs like crazy.

 

[TheBrsrkr]

And this.  No, just no.  You should compare weapons with other weapons with similar damage types, not based on what makes the weapon.  

I'm gonna have to stop you there, friend. The justification for the Akjagara existing is that they would be direct upgrades to the weapons used to build them for new players, such as the Latron >Tiberon transition.If they were supposed to be an upgrade to the weapons used for building them, they should be compared to each other first and other weapons after. Though he did make a mistake in testing the weapons in 2 different areas, a T2 Survival enemy at 25 minutes is going to be a bit harder than on Mercury. If the upgrade can't beat out the original parts, why bother?

[WolvenEdge]

I'm going to say that two stats on the AkJagara make it beat the boltos imo; multishot, and status chance. Innately, the thing launches two bullets every time you pull the trigger, which makes that massive recoil make sense, but just from that, I can assume that these pistols were made for close-in messing-things-up, more like shotguns than a semi-auto. As such, I worked those two stats up with Lethal Torrent and the event stat boosters so that the thing delt blast damage.

Right away, I noted a marked improvement in the performance; I was blowing targets down and leaving small clouds of damage numbers whenever I shot into crouds, and could mow down almost anything under level twenty in pretty short order, and if not killing them, leaving them open for melee finishers thanks to the blast proc bowling them over.

It went from 'meh' to 'hmm, crowd control with blast, and nasty slash procs. I like' pretty quickly. Playstyle has a lot to do with every weapon's performance, and maybe the AkJagara just doesn't fit yours right now? I would strongly suggest playing to a weapon's specific strengths rather than trying to make it do exactly the same thing as another weapon.

[Grom-84]

I have another question - why Boltos better than Boltor?