Proposed Starchart Changes [Megathread]

[SoIaris]

After listening to what steve said, I dont care what happens to our nodes and star chart and will gladly praise RNGsus to get some REAL LORE. 

STEVE SAID ITLL HAPPEN, DE OF ALL THE THINGS YOU COULD LET ME DOWN ON DONT LET THIS BE ONE.

[Vargras]

Waiting for the fire to burn your house when it's just at your doorstep isn't really something smart in my opinion. It's better that people panic, that the change is reconsidered. Wait to see if it become a issue isn't feasible anymore, this is what they always did and now look at what is happening.

 

Prevention is ALWAYS better than damage control, because with damage control the harm is already done.

Yes, let's try to prevent the thing that we know nothing about. The very same thing people are making assumptions about instead. Incredible. Amazing.

 

The discussions are non-conducive to much of anything, really. Can't really do much until we get more info, and we'll get more info once the developers settle on something more concrete.

[Ov3rd0se]

Waiting for the fire to burn your house when it's just at your doorstep isn't really something smart in my opinion. It's better that people panic, that the change is reconsidered. Wait to see if it become a issue isn't feasible anymore, this is what they always did and now look at what is happening.

 

Prevention is ALWAYS better than damage control, because with damage control the harm is already done.

 

 

You're wasting your time man. These are fanboys and they don't know logic.

[AdunSaveMe]

There was no discussion.

Did you watch the dev stream ? :/

Did you not read any comments on the matter?

 

In a totally understandable course of action, the remarks and thoughts on the star chart discussions are coming in.

 

Some things worth mentioning - the discussions on air are real-time and candid, the planning is still happening, and the finality exists only in philosophy that 'we want to solve the filler nodes, increase immersion, and appeal to intrinsic/extrinsic goals'.

 

To speak to that philosophy with reference from Steve's notes:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CD3rp_yWEAELtfq.jpg:large

 

And the source of it all:

https://youtu.be/j7QVemHYKn4?t=57m40s

 

If it's not obvious from that time stamp - if the only way to achieve this philosophy is to eliminate the freedom of choice we currently have, some of us here take issue with that - which is why we continue to discuss.

Edited May 10, 2015 by AdunSaveMe

[AdunSaveMe]

Yes, and while we're at it, lets not discuss the thing that is "heavily open" to discussion. (I don't really see the purpose of your statement)

I fail to see the purpose of yours

 

Waiting for the fire to burn your house when it's just at your doorstep isn't really something smart in my opinion. It's better that people panic, that the change is reconsidered. Wait to see if it become a issue isn't feasible anymore, this is what they always did and now look at what is happening.

 

Prevention is ALWAYS better than damage control, because with damage control the harm is already done.

This isn't prevention. This is moaning and crying and acting like everything is over.

[DiosGX]

So I was lookin' at diss 3.0 MISSION STAY'TMENT, and I see a future of space politics with this "casting a vote" jibber-jabber.

 

I wonder if pluto will become a defense-onry zone with higher-end players voting for the highest base level enemies to vauban/nova up some quick affin-a-ties. That is, if we actually do get to vote on what types of nodes show up on a weekly or bi-weekly basis. With a boss popping in for a few hours at a time to hand out some FREAKING NEURAL SENSORS.

o3o!

[Vargras]

You're wasting your time man. These are fanboys and they don't know logic.

Using "fanboys" as an attempted insult and trying to say that we're the ones who "don't know logic" when we're not whining and complaining about something we know nothing about?

 

Okay.

[Doom_Bunny]

From the half baked RNG cake that Rebecca tried to pull out of Steve. How do you plan to hault "pay-to-sleep" when you are practically smothering everything in RNG?

 

Quiette shy explained it better with an example.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VSwgB-L7-Ow

 

Though this example shows it on a city level. Meanwhile warframe has a whole solar system (+a void/derelict) to cover and only 20 nodes + some player made missions for some reason. How does DE plan to cover all 16 places with 20 nodes and a few player made missions? Unless DE plans to condense all these places into one place. Which I admit could work if there was an open world sort of feel. However Warframe doesn't have that feel, and it would take away the space part of warframe.

 

Then there's this level building thing. It's out of place for Warframe so I'm extremely curious as to how DE will go about it, and how the community will react/use it. Though there was that part (arfter Scott cleared some things) Steve followed on from effiency player's and said something along the lines of: those players would be the ones who would be likely to build missions. This makes it sound like building missions is just going to be labour to help us get around the ever increasing RNG Grind Wall of Warframe.

Edited May 10, 2015 by Postal_pat

[Ov3rd0se]

Using "fanboys" as an attempted insult and trying to say that we're the ones who "don't know logic" when we're not whining and complaining about something we know nothing about?

 

Okay.

 

Pretty sure its not anymore complicated than what we already know. We do know they're removing choice and its really that simple. It's a bad choice.

[Evanescent]

IMPORTANT: SEE THIS LINK FOR MORE INFO ON STAR CHART. NOT MUCH, BUT STILL HELPS-

 

http://www.reddit.com/r/Warframe/comments/35h1r2/some_information_about_starchart_30_that_wasnt/

 

UPDATE: REBECCA'S POST IN MEGATHREAD, POSTED HERE FOR CLARITY:

 

This is a whiteboard - this is everyone talking, thinking, communicating, writing, erasing, repeat -  and this what makes working together at DE so rewarding. In this Devstream we had this conversation openly with each other and with you all, not because we wanted to show you the stone chiseled tablet of what is coming, but because we wanted to discuss openly what we've been discussing off-camera. Sharing what we've been struggling with, what we've wanted to achieve. Could it have been more polished? Probably - but we're not ready to polish what we're still actively figuring out.  

What's been invaluable about the surrounding discussion is where your reactions focus on what you'd like to see and what you'd hate to lose - this mirrors our conversations. These discussions are strongest when the ad-hominem is left out, though. So please keep that in mind. 

Next Devstream will pick up where we left off, and we're working on figuring out a Dev Workshop-style post on what we want to do with the Star Chart. Warframe has always changed and evolved, and as this chapter starts off with bang as the goals are candidly discussed. The ignition of dramatic energy surely reflects on how much everyone cares about this, but this chapter is just beginning. Onward to Dev Workshops, discussions, and more. 

 

 

 

Original reply can be found here:

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/454288-proposed-starchart-changes-megathread/page-19#entry5067097

 

 

Ossu~

 

 

Evanescent here! 

 

I've noticed that the questions are quickly getting buried in the megathread. So to streamline and isolate the constructive questions and to increase awareness (as it will be hectic if not well nigh Impossible for them sort them out from the seething mass of rage boiling over there) and also to bring the community more in the know and to clear misconceptions as well as to make it easier for DE to sort our concerns and questions this thread was created separately. 

 

A request to moderators: Please do not merge with megathread, and clean thread of any material except questions and short feedback. Would be appreciated!

 

 

Rules:

 

You will post your new star-chart related questions ONLY. If you need preamble try to keep it brief.

Please do not post hate, rage, or irrelevant material here.

It is preferable to keep your queries numbered:

 

eg: 1) Hi DE!

       2)Hows it going?

       3)Cake?

 

You get the picture.......right?

 

So let's get pumping those questions! Let's communicate and find out more information about this momentous change. Hopefully it will reduce the amount of fear and confusion in the community. 

 

 

I'll start:

 

1) How will 'mission crafting work?

2)How will resource distribution work?

 

 

 

 

 

On to you, Community!

Edited May 10, 2015 by Evanescent

[Shaonia]

What will happen to the mastery exp gotten from completing the nodes on the current star-chart?

[waterdragon1657]

Pretty sure its not anymore complicated than what we already know. We do know they're removing choice and its really that simple. It's a bad choice.

 

You mis-read then.  Removing SOME player choice.  Not ALL player choice.  There's a difference.

[Rayzenfloss]

1: can you guys tell us the details of your plan in the new star chart.

2: do the "Command Center" on the relay will have a part on selecting missions.

3: can you guys explain it asap :)

[Robin_Gr]

Unfortunately, they probably won't listen. they removed content from the game and reduced choices before in the shape of frost prime and latron prime etc. which was done under the guise of improving the game somehow. Some people then said, wait and see before you complain, but they still haven't really explained what is happening, why and how they may be accessed in the future. That stuff is just gone. Most veterans probably just saw a platinum payday in the future which was enough to distract them from the uncomfortable idea of less stuff to choose from in the game. Most newer players are not in deep enough to care. The rest of the people defend the game or DE no matter what. So the backlash wasn't that loud, so DE probably figure its the way to go to "tighten up" the game and applied that logic to the starchart. It's a bit late now to complain they will probably forge ahead regardless.

[--.B.--HARDCOREDAVE-]

Unfortunately, they probably won't listen. they removed content from the game and reduced choices before in the shape of frost prime and latron prime etc. which was done under the guise of improving the game somehow. Some people then said, wait and see before you complain, but they still haven't really explained what is happening, why and how they may be accessed in the future. That stuff is just gone. Most veterans probably just saw a platinum payday in the future which was enough to distract them from the uncomfortable idea of less stuff to choose from in the game. Most newer players are not in deep enough to care. The rest of the people defend the game or DE no matter what. So the backlash wasn't that loud, so DE probably figure its the way to go to "tighten up" the game and applied that logic to the starchart. It's a bit late now to complain they will probably forge ahead regardless.

Hmm I never really gave much thought on the vaulting of frost, latron and reaper prime collection set cause well I did profit from it lol. But yeah that's a scary thought as well.

[Somedude1000]

The freedom to play as we feel is part of warframes pull, but if done well enough the new starchart might allow for more specific farming, i.e., if the item  we need only appears on a node once a month, we could play warframe once a month and ignore it the rest.

 

That being said, resource collecting and extractors, will they both (git rekt) by the new starchart? For those of us who bought the prime access packs for them it would be sad to have them removed

[--.B.--HARDCOREDAVE-]

But for the sake of the game I really do hope DE considers all our feedback with regards to paranoia and the drastic aftermath that this major change will create both for new and old players.

[--.B.--HARDCOREDAVE-]

The freedom to play as we feel is part of warframes pull, but if done well enough the new starchart might allow for more specific farming, i.e., if the item  we need only appears on a node once a month, we could play warframe once a month and ignore it the rest.

 

That being said, resource collecting and extractors, will they both (git rekt) by the new starchart? For those of us who bought the prime access packs for them it would be sad to have them removed

There are so many issues this new star chart will create that I am sure lol.

[Snougar]

I personally think change is good, even if the new star chart fails and something better is born from it. In the end it will be better for us.

 

So people need to relax and just enjoy the ride, give feedback and it'll all work out in the end.

Knowing there is going to be a difficulty slider makes me happy though.

[CruxNile]

There's going to be a lot of people abandoning missions right from the start if they don't get the mission type they want, which might cause a lot of headaches in itself with constant host migrations.

[MichelPostma]

Well, if this happens, let's all file support tickets every day stating: 

Help, there is some kind of bug, I miss around 230 mission nodes, please fix it.

 

That will have to get them thinking in some way

[Djangofett]

You mis-read then.  Removing SOME player choice.  Not ALL player choice.  There's a difference.

Ok. Tell me which choices we are left with? We can't choose the map we want. We now have to pray to RNG to get us into the map we want and pray to RNG again, that we get what we wanted. That's a complete waste of precious time and nothing more than an excuse to keep players occupied for hours, for what? To burnout

[Jangkrik]

I personally think reducing the myriad amount of nodes in the star chart is a good idea. Most of the nodes aren't played anyway.

 

However, I don't think the '"mission roulette" part is any useful since it'll remove the ability to play specific gamemode and tileset. No one wants to end up using stealth gear in a defense mission or rhino + boltor in a spy mission right?

[EmptyDevil]

There really isn't a point to having nearly 300 nodes. They can make every mission type available for each planet in a small number and people wouldn't really be missing out. We'll have to see exactly what they mean by randomized missions with a detailed concept first.

 

I haven't read much of this thread but i feel like the main point of the uproar is that people fear they will lose rep farming maps. That or they feel like their preferred mission type will be scarce. 

 

I'm sure one of the main reasons for this idea is that some places feel like ghost towns or dead to newer players. It would also make integrating the Void into the star chart a lot easier i assume. That way you will have more activity across the entire system then just LF DRACO XP FARM or every player living in the Void.

 

Anyway, i can't wait to see what they have planned for this so i can form a better opinion.

Edited May 10, 2015 by EmptyDevil

[Cubewano]

 

Does it refresh daily? Or hourly? Also what type of RNG are we facing??? Are we garrenteed to get all mission types every refresh or not? Also the DE stated that their will be at least 20 meaning their could be more. Also we have yet to hear how many resources it takes to make these keys.

 

Do keys take 50k credits to make or 1k???

 

 

From what I have heard from DE, this will have 3 types of RNG: Tile set, Mission type, and resources. We have 4 resources per planet 2 common 1 med, and 1 rare. With even 20 missions we only have 5 rare resources so the chances for a refresh that doesn't have neuroids is very low if even possible. Really what gets people upset is the mission types being random. Though we really have yet to see how random this is going to be. 

 

 

Also this could introduce more lore, we could have Vey hek go into a Infested tile set trying to experiment to create super solders. Having a invasion like mission with buffed up greneer.

 

The DE can do a lot with Starchart 3.0.

 

No matter the timeline between changes, it still results in the same scenario. We are being forced to change maps not because we want to, or even feel it's desirable, but simply because de is removing other choices. Nodes could change forty fifty times a day but the end result is the same, and I just can't see the benefit in taking away players capabilities like that. The goal should be motivating us to want to run these nodes, there shouldn't be a downside, it shouldn't be we will get you to play x y and z by taking away a b and c. 

 

And you are quite right, we don't know what the price is for the coming craftable missions, but as a said with the trend DE seems to show consistently whatever the cost for it will be is definitely going to be disproportionately large. 

 

It seems quite random since you just said there would be at least three layers or random, which is on top of the item rng that players already feel quite conflicted with. This game has already been suffering from a terrible amount of rng from the start,  adding more isn't going to help, just like adding more oil to a fire isn't going to reduce its flames. 

 

The changes introduces no more lore than DE is capable of any day of the week, have you never played events or alerts or even nightmare missions? Adding special scenarios to nodes has been going on the ages, DE could just as easily apply the scenario you listed to current star chart, so no it isn't opening doors to even further lore opportunities. 

 

So from what I see, DE can do loads wrong with Starchart 3.0 with an off chance they could do alright. I'm not a betting man, but those odds don't sit too well with me.