The Bleed Mechanic Is Such Humdrum.

[achromos]

since this will ultimately come up - Shield Ignoring Damage must exist. it makes Health matter.

it is critically important that Shield Ignoring Damage exists.

- - - - -

however, Health Damage is something that occurs based on RNG - therefore ingame mechanics to regain Health are cruicial.

ones that you always have access to, no matter what Equipment you have. i'm not talking about a portable Blessing.

you simply need a Skillbased method of recouping Health. Killing Enemies in certain ways is a good avenue to this.

RNG Health loss, and combat this through Skill based mechanics to get Health Orbs from Enemies. Skill is being used a bit loosely here, basically describing as methods which are not casting Abilities or shooting Weapons - but instead Killing Enemies in specific ways.

this can include but is not limited to Killing them with hits to particular spots, certain combinations of Abilities (on one Warframe! remember, must be available 100% of the time. requiring inter Warframe use won't work), Et Cetera.

 

They may not be skill based... but...  Lifestrike?  and Team-Heal restores help on this matter.  You can hot-key the gear slots too, so it's not cumbersome to use. 

 

OP needs to realize that some warframes are ALWAYS going to be squishier than others.  Limbo is NOT meant to get hit unless he wants to.  AKA RIFTWALK/CATA 23/7

 

[p.s. if you don't have consistant access to Team-Heal restores...  Stop spamming them, if you need to spam them learn to dodge or avoid what is causing you to get such a heavy bleedout.  Otherwise look at how you've kitted your warframe out and see if you can make the adjustment instead.

Edited May 16, 2015 by achromos

[taiiat]

OP needs to realize that some warframes are ALWAYS going to be squishier than others.

and you need to realize that currently losing Health is based on RNG.

since you always have RNG Health Loss, you then must always have method(s) to regain Health.

[achromos]

and you need to realize that currently losing Health is based on RNG.

since you always have RNG Health Loss, you then must always have method(s) to regain Health.

Lifestrike is ALWAYS available.

 

Team-Health restores ARE ALWAYS available as long as you manage your resources... unless you guzzle them.

 

Secondly?  Health loss rng based?  If you cannot recognize Toxic units, or the units that typically cause bleed and take them out/dodge/block/avoid them, then... is it hard to learn to? Heck, line of sight them if you can at times if you know a attack can cause bleed easily and with regularity. :/  I cannot remember the last time I went down to a bleed proc and I've played everything from Chroma with max tankyness to loki, or to be fair, nova.  There hasn't been a frame [aside from saryn] that I haven't played.  I could understand if it were someone new to the game, but you KNOW these options are available to everyone. 

 

The excuses of 'it wastes a mod slot' as far as the rapid resilience mod goes?  Irrelevant, it's like being a thirsty man in the middle of a desert and finding a Oasis that has water that you for some reason don't want to drink because it doesn't suit your tastebuds.  It's a null argument, it's available, it's there to help.

Edited May 16, 2015 by achromos

[taiiat]

Health loss rng based?

Neither Life Strike or Pizzas are always available. it's possible to not have them. 100% means 100%.

and yes, it's RNG based. do you know how this game works? Enemies have a Status Chance. that is RNG based. it is impossible to never get hit unless you are playing a Stealth Mission - which is not 100% of the game.

saying otherwise would be naive.

[Gr3vi3R]

Just wear the g0dd4mn R.R and see how g0dlike it is... casuls.

Edited May 16, 2015 by Gr3vi3R

[achromos]

Neither Life Strike or Pizzas are always available. it's possible to not have them. 100% means 100%.

and yes, it's RNG based. do you know how this game works? Enemies have a Status Chance. that is RNG based. it is impossible to never get hit unless you are playing a Stealth Mission - which is not 100% of the game.

saying otherwise would be naive.

Again, you are refusing to acknowledge the fact that "Pizzas" are always available to those that use them sparingly. Life strike is ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS available unless you don't equip it [...or have it... Which you should save/earn up some plat and buy it, it's that good] and then thats your conscious choice NOT to arm yourself.

Do you wish to make Oberon's renewal useless?

Do you wish to make Trinity rather useless?

How about Hydroids Curative undertow augment as well?

I cannot see how you find Bleed procs so deadly. Unless you are STILL modding yourself out for Shields and NOT putting vitality on ALL frames instead? If that's what you are doing then THAT'S the issue. The game shifted from Shields being best, before enemies had alot of options to chip at your health through shields, to how it is now. Get Vitality.

Secondly... It ISN'T RNG based. I know exactly how this game works. I know there is a likelyhood of getting bleed/toxic against certain enemies and I COUNT on getting that proc if i don't retroactively prepare [AKA, Take them out, dodge, keep a eye on them, SHOOT them, disable them, something.]

It also is NOT impossible to avoid getting hit, don't stand in one place and flail your arms around lol, they changed the AI for this reason, Remember? I can run through a whole mission as Volt and get chipped once or twice, maybe need to take cover, where as quite a few updates ago if I tried that, the enemies would definately have aim-botted me to death with impossible accuracy.

Dodge and Weave dude if you are running. Know your enemies, know your terrain, equip yourself properly and quit snub-nosing the options available commonly to everyone. Life Strike, for one reguardless of build is available unless you get energy drained and/or you are bad at managing energy to the point where you cannot get life strike to be active for one single swing.

"Pizzas" as you call them? Craft a few, DON'T use them unless you need them. Rely on your shield to soak the few bullets you cannot dodge, and if you are about to go down tap your hotkey that you have it set up on and then you are good, most of all take cover once in a while maybe?

Edited May 16, 2015 by achromos

[VoidianAgent]

If anything WF could use increased enemy shenanigans, it's very, very hard to die/lose in WF outside of bad raid groups and endless missions after 45+ minutes.

Also, Healing is (generally) useless enough as it is and "healing frames" are never picked for their healing capabilities, Life Strike takes care of every frame's healing needs.

Edited May 16, 2015 by VoidianAgent

[taiiat]

Again, you are refusing to acknowledge the fact that "Pizzas" are always available. Life strike is always available.

Do you wish to make Healing Abilities useless?

It ISN'T RNG based. I know exactly how this game works.

It also is NOT impossible to avoid getting hit.

you're ignoring things because they aren't convenient to you. i would rather you didn't.

it is possible to not have Pizzas and not have Life Strike. infact, it's possible to not have a Melee Weapon with you. Melee can't be your only answer.

Pizzas are not a given. you may bring them, but they are not automatically in your pocket. nor would i want them to be, either. they would only be always available if the game automatically gave you 100 of them per Mission, from the first Mission you play.

- - - - -

Healing Abilities do not become useless just because you can siphon a Health Orb or three worth's of Health from time to time to compensate for the Bleeding that is received from time to time.

hyperbole is cool, but not constructive.

- - - - -

you have no idea how this game works if you think Health Damage isn't RNG based. Status applied from Enemies is Random.

Ran. Dom.

- - - - -

it is, infact, impossible to avoid getting it. you can dodge some incoming fire, but you cannot dodge all of it. dodging the majority of it, is also questionable.

Enemies will not all the unoften confront Players in groups of 10, 20, 30, Et Cetera. that's how Warframe plays. there's dozens of dudes with guns shooting at you. you may move as fast as you'd like, but they will still hit you.

volume of fire determines that you will be hit.

ultimately though, i'm going to give up on you. your lack of understanding of the systems that are being talked about is vehemently showing.

Edited May 16, 2015 by taiiat

[BluelitHalo]

Simple.

Make finishers regen health.

This. This system works very well in Vindictus. It can work as another nice Health restore option in Warframe as well. Especially Valkyr and Excalibur 2.0 can greatly benefit from this by staggering and creating finisher opportunities; they NEED more life steal options as melee-oriented frames. Edited May 16, 2015 by Sonitorum

[PookieNumnums]

There will be blood

A lot of theirs

Some ours

Such is the way of the tenno

[D3ST]

The bleed procs in this game is just as stupid as the constant poison procs from infected..

 

Makes me fear the new Sentients faction,..

im afraid they will just be a compleate faction of Bursa/nullifier/manic/aincients type enemies..

Oh the joy and fun..

[Nighttide77]

no one talked about (team) health restores yet? Bind them to a hotkey and use like health potions in any MMO

 

Thank you, lol.  Was about to mention this.

[achromos]

it is, infact, impossible to avoid getting it. you can dodge some incoming fire, but you cannot dodge all of it. dodging the majority of it, is also questionable.

Enemies will not all the unoften confront Players in groups of 10, 20, 30, Et Cetera. that's how Warframe plays. there's dozens of dudes with guns shooting at you. you may move as fast as you'd like, but they will still hit you.

volume of fire determines that you will be hit.

ultimately though, i'm going to give up on you. your lack of understanding of the systems that are being talked about is vehemently showing.

 

Go ahead and think that you are some gaming god and that just because you cannot handle a few bleed procs and PREPARE YOURSELF ACCORDINGLY [aka bring team health restores, life strike, take cover, play in co-op until you "git gud", ect...] You think there is a problem.  You are confusing the issue.  Yes, you will get hit, but not EVERY. SINGLE. HIT. will cause a bleed proc, and you can still block, take cover, and KILL the threat usually alot quicker then they kill YOU unless you are just starting out, and at that point it's all about team-work even more so then people who have invested 900+ hours into the game.

 

Please name ONE common situation where you are fighting 20-30 enemies all able to give you a bleed proc 100% of the time with each shot and I will show you a photoshopped image.

 

Health is already easy as heck to come by with switching to your melee with life-strike, hell... while you have your melee out you can block too dude.  Simple strat, Right click mouse button, charge forward.  Left click to enable channeling while life strike is on and slash away.  Unless you are using a slow/weak melee... ... you will regain more health than you will ever lose, granted unless you run out of energy [in which case you must build your weapon/warframe a bit better... flow, or efficiency on the channeling drain, ect] or get energy-drained OR are in the middle of a hundred enemies that are level 50 or higher.

 

Again... Please, give me a legitimate situation, here... show me a node that has such 'hard' hitting bleed procs, because I've been around the solar system and I have not seen a single one that is worrying.

 

So, instead of thinking that your way is the ONLY right way of thinking, do a search on threads like these.  There are few to none, and yet this is a common forum advertised in game... so why has nobody else complained before you?  If this was such a big issue... why are there so few posts after this topic has been out for so long?  When on other 'ACTUAL' problems, they usually get 5-10 pages easy.

 

The root of the issue is, and excuse me if I am wrong:  You are unwilling to adjust your [weapon or warframe] builds out of what 'YOU' want because what YOU want isn't what is effective in this game.  So the game is at fault, not you.  Right?

Edited May 16, 2015 by achromos

[GridBurn]

I know I'm being obvious but,

Don't get hit ; )

 

also, opening more containers for health orbs really helps.

 

Sorry I had to laugh at the though of trying to avoid getting hit by high level Grineer that seem to suffer from no recoil and infinite clip size XD

[Eyeless]

-snip-

 

Go ahead and throw your little tantrum because you're missing taiiat's point completely. Lifestrike and Health restores are not readily 'available' for everybody during their endeavors. You must be able to afford the blueprint off the market or be able to reach the appropriate rank in Steel Meridian. One is easy but most newer players won't have the resources to keep a steady production of these up.

 

Steel Meridian would take a good while to actually level to the point of the larger health restores being made readily available. Resources could still potentially be an issue. 

 

Lifestrike is only available from Dark Sectors as a rare RNG based reward, or an expensive trade because people are charging a decent sum of plat for it, plat a lot of new players will not have access to because they're new. They won't have a good stock of items to trade nor will they have a steady flow of things (depending on who they play with) unless they bust out real world money of their own. So no, newer players can't readily trade for this mod, making this mod unavailable to a large portion of the playerbase. 

 

Your squad isn't always going to have an Oberon, Trinity, or Nekros. 

 

The point of all of this is: SELF HEALING IS NOT A READILY AVAILABLE BENEFIT FROM THE START OF THE GAME. THIS IS AN ISSUE. 

 

Do you get that at all? If a new player gets pinged by a bleed proc on Saturn trying to get to the boss, two to three bullets later they're either eating a revive or putting several of their newer squadmates in the same danger because health recovery simply isn't a thing until you finally have invested a good while into the game. This is an issue. Everyone should have a reliable source of health recovery, not just the veterans or well invested regulars. 

 

Swear to god if you say 'Don't get hit.' 

Edited May 16, 2015 by Hastur609

[KingTaro]

Simple.

Make finishers regen health.

 

Yes but even then you have to hope someone gets knocked down to use a finisher so you have to gear a way to do it or use something that can knock people down. Not all weapons have good knockdown here and there.

 

Every frame can knockdown without using a weapon or powers.

Simply jump and slide (a.k.a Flying Kick).

[achromos]

Go ahead and throw your little tantrum because you're missing taiiat's point completely. Lifestrike and Health restores are not readily 'available' for everybody during

 

The point of all of this is: SELF HEALING IS NOT A READILY AVAILABLE BENEFIT FROM THE START OF THE GAME. THIS IS AN ISSUE. 

 

Do you get that at all? If a new player gets pinged by a bleed proc on Saturn trying to get to the boss, two to three bullets later they're either eating a revive or putting several of their newer squadmates in the same danger because health recovery simply isn't a thing until you finally have invested a good while into the game. This is an issue. Everyone should have a reliable source of health recovery, not just the veterans or well invested regulars. 

 

Swear to god if you say 'Don't get hit.' 

 

 

Don't get hit.

 

Seriously though are we playing the same game, I mean is this game supposed to be a cake-walk for new players too? Or are they supposed to feel some sort of progression, after that moment where they get a few decent mods and are on a steady rise to the top of their game?  Is this supposed to be a 'TEAM' oriented game, or not?  Being honest?  Not having a "reliable source of health recovery" [or rather, constant free full heals on demand because the game is too hard D:] teaches people not to be hallway heros and NOT that they are some special snowflake and that they are NOT gods and that they are NOT to leave their team behind.

 

In a boss fight?  Come prepared.  There is no excuse for out of four people NONE to have a means of healing available from at least the lowest tier 'team heal' item to maybe if they are lucky a frame with the ability.  Even if none of that is available, good team-work is vital to a lot of things in this game unless you can solo because you've min/maxed so hard and are at the "End" game [which dosen't make you pro].

 

I don't remember ever having a issue going through bosses, and I've cleared each boss fight as soon as I could in my progression to pluto and other planets.  I don't see what you guys are saying, and as far as "Tantrum"  I fail to see how you think I'm even slightly mad, I'm just a aggressive person on my views and I'm not going to back down.  I see no need to give people freebie heals 'just because' bleed procs hurt.  What next? Free full weapon levels because you kill boss because it takes too long to grind?  Maybe a legendary core for completing your first five minutes in a Tower one Survival?

 

 

The funny part about this whole argument?  I went through the 'new player experience' with fresh guns on a fresh account BEFORE they balanced the whole hit-scan aim-bot enemy issue and More often then not I solo'd things going through the starchart and I'm BAD at this game in my opinion dude.

 

Edit:  Also have you ever broken open containers or opened lockers?  They have a decent chance of giving you heals dude.  So, yes they are technically available, but no they aren't 'free full heals because the game is hard' type heals.

 

Also:  Team heal restores in the market? Want to know the EXTRAVAGANT COST?

 

To get the blueprint? 

500 credits.  [breaking the bank for even people starting the game, heck I barely can afford them!!]

 

Components to make one?

 

1000 credits.  [so out of line on this price!! Right?]

300 ferrite [ D:]

50 polymer bundle [HOW DARE THEY ASK FOR SO MUCH.]

 

Guess what you can get on the first planet people start on?

 

Both of those.  Are you telling me that New players can NOT make one or two of these, and in a team of FOUR that these aren't readily available to ANYONE by the time they reach a hard enough boss?  That they cannot re-do a few missions here or there and ... grind [horrible right?  in a game about grinding] and get a few more resources and BAM they have a decent stock and can take down the next hardest boss AND have leveled their warframe/weapons/gear and maybe get a new mod or two as well.

Edited May 16, 2015 by achromos

[VoidianAgent]

 

 

Your squad isn't always going to have an Oberon, Trinity, or Nekros. 

 

Same goes for nearly every single MMO ever created. unless you buy/craft health consumables , which is what you can do here, you're not getting any healing, game's generous enough with the arcade-style healing drops.

Point is null.

Edited May 16, 2015 by VoidianAgent

[AkerTheSpjot]

Healing methods and such are not the solution. I mean when you get hit, you would obviously want to heal yourself, but it's not the damage. You're ignoring the fact that slash procs are still random and unavoidable. You're technically being punished for no apparent reason

[Vitalis_Inamorta]

Yes but even then you have to hope someone gets knocked down to use a finisher so you have to gear a way to do it or use something that can knock people down. Not all weapons have good knockdown here and there.

 

Hardly.  You can dragon kick even heavy units to the floor, and then finish in a split second.  You could also use a jump and then down attack in the vicinity if you suck at dragon kicks for some reason.  Health steal on finishers is a great idea.  There are also tons of abilities that do knockdown/ragdoll, so this should be very easy.

[Vitalis_Inamorta]

what you end up with then, is a Cover Shooter.

Digital Extremes doesn't want a slow paced Cover Shooter.

but, what of Warframes which do not create Finishers? because most of them... don't.

if you're referring to Channel Blocking, it's ultimately too slow paced to be a practical means of Health recoup. groups of 10, 20, 30 Enemies aren't that uncommon. spending the time to Channel Block to get a single Finisher just isn't practical even within Enemy Levels of the Solar Map.

 

Ground Finishers.  Everyone can do them with ease.

 

Although I should also mention that backflips remove one status effect each time you do them... in this case while you're zoomed in aiming and take a slash proc you can instantly backflip to get it off you.

[Wolfglaive]

Healing methods and such are not the solution. I mean when you get hit, you would obviously want to heal yourself, but it's not the damage. You're ignoring the fact that slash procs are still random and unavoidable. You're technically being punished for no apparent reason

You got hit. Most procs aren't that punishing to begin with, with only a few enemies being capable of inflicting considerable damage which bypasses shields. Status is part of the game, you're not being punished, you're being dealt damage. If you can't account for it in your playstyle and either nullify or mitigate it, then you should reevaluate said playstyle. The only time I have any real trouble with bleed is with Eviscerators, Manics, and the Kubrows in the current tactical alert. Once again, those are fairly easy to avoid unless you're careless, and in that case? Bring a Frost and use globe, an Oberon with Hallowed Ground, or even Hydroid or some high-armor frame. Status isn't just something we alone should be able to inflict.

[AkerTheSpjot]

You got hit. Most procs aren't that punishing to begin with, with only a few enemies being capable of inflicting considerable damage which bypasses shields. Status is part of the game, you're not being punished, you're being dealt damage. If you can't account for it in your playstyle and either nullify or mitigate it, then you should reevaluate said playstyle. The only time I have any real trouble with bleed is with Eviscerators, Manics, and the Kubrows in the current tactical alert. Once again, those are fairly easy to avoid unless you're careless, and in that case? Bring a Frost and use globe, an Oberon with Hallowed Ground, or even Hydroid or some high-armor frame. Status isn't just something we alone should be able to inflict.

Damage is one thing, avoiding it is another. In a case where I'm taking fire, then I'll run to the nearest cover and dispatch the enemies, it's bullets so getting hit is very likely but negligible, procs however are completely random and unavoidable, nothing to do with being careless or not (except for those that have 100% chance to cause bleed like the ones you mentioned, if I get hit, it's on me)it's not always lethal but sure as Hek annoying. And just because it's part of the game doesn't we have to "deal with it". I'm not suggesting removing it either, just rework it so certain enemies can force proc so I'll know which one to avoid

Oh, and bleed ignores armor

[Ve1indian]

what you end up with then, is a Cover Shooter.

Digital Extremes doesn't want a slow paced Cover Shooter.

 

no, it wouldn't if it was balanced properly.

 

Say some enemy takes ~2 shots from a decent build up weapon, causing them to stagger (or go slow mo, panic,confuse,stun etc. depending on the  proc), leading the player to taking less damage and thus effectively avoiding the use of cover as much. Now say you're hitting multiple enemies in quick succession and are reliably getting those cc procs due to set variables as to when those procs occur. This would make the player able to skillfully use proc builds reliably without having to have a 80% proc gun, but would also make balancing procs and damage within the guns more dynamic leading to more balanced, varied gameplay.

 

Different warframes would have varied build up resistances (like loki being more resistant to radiation, ember to fire, rhino to physical etc.). With these varying resistances the player would also be able to avoid getting proc'd by being attentive and making a good decision based off the frame they are using and the enemies they are fighting, rather being at the mercy of RNG . Instead of getting hit by a unlucky proc by a stray bullet half the time, and the other half of the time running through crowds enemies firing without getting punished by a single proc, it would be something a player could manipulate skillfully, and on failure of doing so, being punished rightfully for it.

 

if the build up numbers are so low frames get proc'd on super fast then it would be a cover shooter, but if they were relatively high and balanced with a build-up degenerating mechanic (much like shield recharge with the delay followed by quick recovery), it would still be a similar (perhaps even faster) pace to how it is now, but more consistent and open to experimenting/being on par with different elemental configurations and warframes from the current norm/meta.

[Renkai141]

and you need to realize that currently losing Health is based on RNG.

Excuse me? I lost my S#&$ after I read this... let's go back to the core.

http://warframe.wikia.com/wiki/Damage_2.0/Slash_Damage

"Slash damage's unique status effect is Bleed: a DoT that inflicts 35% of your weapon or power's base damage per tick (7 ticks in 6 seconds)."

I will have to reply with this.

 

The low level bleeds are fine, it's the higher level ones that deal like 40 health per tick that get ridiculous

^Exactly how it is.

Scaling on the enemies make EVERYTHING scale insanely. level 40~80+. Those guys are the real criminal.

As of now we have items, we have a shop that grants us usage. Just because you live the hard life of "not using potions" doesn't mean everyone should think the same. I've had my taste of slash procs, but I don't believe is that bad. I just think that slash damage is a bug, and when enemies use them they do an insane damage per second. No weapon should base should be dealing 40-80 damage per tic. Specially when it says "35%" meaning, that it's not the full percentage of the weapon itself. Enemies just don't have that yet of hardcore scaling, and bringing the soft Limbo man over there can shred way his elegance.