StormBeast3 Posted June 22, 2015 Share Posted June 22, 2015 The only issue with it is that it prevents exploration and viewing of the beautiful environments for any substantial amount of time. In time the tilesets all blend together and people eventually fail to notice the beauty in them or even the differences The problem is warframe is not a game you need pretty levels for because the gameplay is centered around multiplayer type gameplay or really boring mission types like exterminate or capture. People only go through the levels for rewards mostly. Warframe just isn't a singleplayer epic game that requires exploration it's a gameplay game like quake, in quake 3 pro's used to turn the textures detail as low as possible and the game looked muddy so that they could clearly see opponents. Gameplay is greater then graphics, the problem with complex graphics is that it makes identifying enemies that blend into the detail a royal pain in the &#!. You need really good art teams and designers so stuff "reads' correctly. The grineer tylesets on mercury survival while not the prettiest are some of the most readable. Enemies are easy to distinguish from background and you never feel like your wasting time trying to figure out where you are going or get confused. I remember when they had the alad/nef event where you had to flood the room, that level while pretty was just a royal pain in the &#! to read in places and @(*()$ confusing to navigate because of the over detail in places. Especially the room where you destroy those pods. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)Draconis1981 Posted June 22, 2015 Share Posted June 22, 2015 its always been a thing, like infinite wall run...... oh yes that got killed off to didn't it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KvotheTheArcane1 Posted June 22, 2015 Share Posted June 22, 2015 The denial is amazing. Wow. Wanting something doesn't make it real you know... Not really, I'm just not having high hopes for parkour 2.0, especially having seen all of their 2.0 reworks so far. You do understand what Parkour 2.0 has to do to replace coptering right? (replace, as in be just as good/equal to coptering) -provide fast movement -from pretty much anywhere -somewhat simple to execute If they somehow manage to do all of that, then sure, remove coptering by all means. But I'm not gonna get my hopes up. Rocket jumping and coptering are apples and oranges, and you're comparing them in a vacuum besides. Rocket jumping wasn't the primary method of forward motion in a game with a parkour system, and rocket jumping has gotten more love than coptering ever has. Not to mention the two are different by nature, coptering is a momentum error and rocket jumping is intended behavior being used in a unique way. If they want to make coptering into a feature, that's fine. However in its current form coptering is not long for this world. Rocket jumping was actually NOT an intended behavior, it started out as a "bug" or "exploit" where someone could damage themselves with a rocket to propel themselves around (iirc, was first done in quake series), since then it's been expanded upon. Rocketjumping started out as someone "abusing" the self damage with rockets. That's why they're making it. So it isn't janky. So it's fast and fluid. So it's not completely situational. So that it works with current tilesets. So that coptering can be toned down; these are all their main goals that they've discussed so far (candidly) on streams and on twitter. Slide attacks will still exist, coptering won't. I don't have high hopes for parkour 2.0, their other ones have been meh to acceptable at best, and some didn't even solve the problems they were meant to fix (D2.0), or created problems/made something worse (starchart 2.0 i.e) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)SancticuS Posted June 22, 2015 Share Posted June 22, 2015 I think there needs to be less coptering and more actual other moves. Could not agree more. It seems that I can't join any games without it being full of spastic copter spamming tenno. All you hear is the constant swosh sound from the ADHD warframes. The Technocyte virus is nothing against the copter decease. We should focus on fixing the fellow tenno's before we venture forth helping others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ranks21 Posted June 22, 2015 Share Posted June 22, 2015 (edited) there shouldn't be an issue with coptering, after all it was highlighted (not coptering) but the slingshot effect and the momentum building of the movement mechanics long ago and one of the reasons melee is such fun. all of a sudden you have a plethora of bandwagonists talking about it and saying it stops you from using certain weapons. the truth is which they wont say or haven't realized is that there are many factors when it comes to melee speed and reach on most weapons and only the faster ones that gets the job done effectively shines. I have changed up my melee almost every other mission like wise my guns. on melee weapons most are just novelties that in real time play you give up too much for a meager return which only gets you killed due to its ineffectiveness in large high level crowds where everything matters. so I beg to ask whats fit for the job? or are you gonna be " hey look at me" even those who in this very thread have their favorite weapons that when they are in an endless mission will most certainly 9/10 time use those specific loadout, why? because it's what they are comfortable using and what they don't suck with and it's that simple, here's looking at you D nikana, Scindo Prime, Jat Kittag, tipedo, you get the drift. Edited June 22, 2015 by ranks21 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
10thdivine Posted June 22, 2015 Share Posted June 22, 2015 You do understand what Parkour 2.0 has to do to replace coptering right? Lol parkour 2.0 is not about replacing coptering,its about having an improved movement system.Copter will in no form be a part of that new system.I hope. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wtrmlnjuc Posted June 22, 2015 Share Posted June 22, 2015 (edited) Not really, I'm just not having high hopes for parkour 2.0, especially having seen all of their 2.0 reworks so far. You do understand what Parkour 2.0 has to do to replace coptering right? (replace, as in be just as good/equal to coptering) -provide fast movement -from pretty much anywhere -somewhat simple to execute If they somehow manage to do all of that, then sure, remove coptering by all means. But I'm not gonna get my hopes up. Rocket jumping was actually NOT an intended behavior, it started out as a "bug" or "exploit" where someone could damage themselves with a rocket to propel themselves around (iirc, was first done in quake series), since then it's been expanded upon. Rocketjumping started out as someone "abusing" the self damage with rockets. I don't have high hopes for parkour 2.0, their other ones have been meh to acceptable at best, and some didn't even solve the problems they were meant to fix (D2.0), or created problems/made something worse (starchart 2.0 i.e) I have much more faith in them now than I did last year. I also never expect things to be perfect. I just expect then to be less wrong and for them to learn from mistakes. Warframe didn't have a clear idea of what it wanted to be a year or two ago. Now it definitely does. Edited June 22, 2015 by wtrmlnjuc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evanescent Posted June 22, 2015 Share Posted June 22, 2015 Git to da Choppah! Run Tenno! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Omnimorph Posted June 22, 2015 Share Posted June 22, 2015 (edited) The problem with coptering is that it alienates newbies. If you have a movement system that isn't obvious from the information you're presented at the start of the game, this strings teams out and makes it difficult for a newbie (who's only just starting to learn the maps) to catch up, that makes the newbie feel like an idiot, and makes the game feel uninviting as a team game. Only newbies who persevere because they have a particular fondness for some aspect of the game (like I had for the art design), or who's determined to "beat" the problem, will keep going through that early period of alienation, and discover about coptering. But that's DE leaving money on the table - i.e. all those players who try the game who aren't all that committed to one aspect of it or another, but who get alienated by being left behind in teams feeling baffled, or feeling like a chump. Keeping coptering in the game was the absolute worst decision DE have made. I'm glad it's not going to be part of the new movement system. This ought to be a lesson: not all forms of emergent gameplay are good, or have to be kept in to look "cool". Of course the other reason why it was a terrible decision to keep it is that now removing it is going to alienate some vets. But that kind of dilemma is what you get for a terrible decision. They had to do it sooner or later, they should have done it sooner, but at least they're doing it later. All that's happened is that the game isn't quite as successful as it might have been (given that it's actually a great game in many aspects). The ameliorating factor is that everyone will have to learn the new movement system, and if a) it's top speed isn't all that much less than coptering (and already some forms of forward flip weren't all that far behind coptering in terms of speed, so it's plausible), and if b) it's manageable enough by newbies so that the PUGs they participate in (that also have vets) are more tethered together in terms of speed (so that a newbie has a chance to catch up to the group fun and slaughter), then it'll all be rosy. Edited June 22, 2015 by Omnimorph Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StormBeast3 Posted June 22, 2015 Share Posted June 22, 2015 (edited) so I beg to ask whats fit for the job? or are you gonna be " hey look at me" Melee is great for when you run out of ammo or where there is lots of corridors and you can weave/dodge/etc. It all depends on what frame you are. Don't forget melee interrupts. Edited June 22, 2015 by StormBeast3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
h8seekr Posted June 22, 2015 Share Posted June 22, 2015 Old Ember. ^^^Overheat removed just after I bought the Inferno level Prime Access. Talk about "world shattering rage"! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chewbaccachris2 Posted June 22, 2015 Share Posted June 22, 2015 My Rhino needs to copter just to keep up with everyone else - plus I always use my melee weapons over my primary and secondary ..... unless there's far too many nasties around Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thalahssalyst Posted June 22, 2015 Share Posted June 22, 2015 My Rhino needs to copter just to keep up with everyone else - plus I always use my melee weapons over my primary and secondary ..... unless there's far too many nasties around No, your rhino, like frost and everyone need to learn how to move fast, not build your melee to have "the feel of speed".. In parkour 2.0 you can build your movement speed, with constant movement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
h8seekr Posted June 22, 2015 Share Posted June 22, 2015 If they do kill coptering, high level interception missions will turn into camp or fail missions. RIP Draco. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chewbaccachris2 Posted June 22, 2015 Share Posted June 22, 2015 No, your rhino, like frost and everyone need to learn how to move fast, not build your melee to have "the feel of speed".. In parkour 2.0 you can build your movement speed, with constant movement. Oh I can keep up, it is just easier with coptering and I take down enemies who get in the way - 2 birds one stone ;-P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gr3vi3R Posted June 22, 2015 Share Posted June 22, 2015 If they do kill coptering, high level interception missions will turn into camp or fail missions. RIP Draco. Draco RIPs anyway with the new starchart. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KIREEK Posted June 22, 2015 Share Posted June 22, 2015 (edited) Been doing raids frequently, there are always players that don't even use directional melee nor shift to run, let alone know how to copter or copter and directional melee to cover big distances quickly. Usually players are slow, take a very long time to press pads and when they do press pads they use the w key only when moving towards a pad. I am fairly certain many players don't know how to copter, when they do they sometimes copter onto pads only to roll out of them due to the speed, they copter to the wrong pads getting them killed or they copter and leave the pads that need to be be pressed. So yeah, some don't know how to do it and those who do, use it incorrectly Edited June 22, 2015 by KIREEKPSO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scr4mp Posted June 22, 2015 Share Posted June 22, 2015 I like to compare Warframe to dying light at this point. The movement system in dying light is so good you don't need coptering there, moving around the city in that game is so much fun on its own that you simply don't need it (you can kinda compare the grabling hook in dying light to coptering). If the movement in warframe was as fluid and fast paced (and considering we are using warframes a.k.a. exo-skeletons it should be even faster in warframe) I could totally see coptering go. But with the current movement system where you can't even use enemies as a jump pad and us being so damn slow, coptering is the only method that works everywhere and is fast enough to pull off to make the sometimes HUGE tilesets and maps even bearable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KvotheTheArcane1 Posted June 22, 2015 Share Posted June 22, 2015 (edited) Lol parkour 2.0 is not about replacing coptering,its about having an improved movement system.Copter will in no form be a part of that new system.I hope. lol, you're missing the point. coptering is the best movement we have currently. By removing that, and putting parkour 2.0 in, parkour suddenly has sa HUUUGE gap to fill, or it has to contain some sort of move speed buff/technique that is roughly equal to coptering. I like to compare Warframe to dying light at this point. The movement system in dying light is so good you don't need coptering there, moving around the city in that game is so much fun on its own that you simply don't need it (you can kinda compare the grabling hook in dying light to coptering). If the movement in warframe was as fluid and fast paced (and considering we are using warframes a.k.a. exo-skeletons it should be even faster in warframe) I could totally see coptering go. But with the current movement system where you can't even use enemies as a jump pad and us being so damn slow, coptering is the only method that works everywhere and is fast enough to pull off to make the sometimes HUGE tilesets and maps even bearable. this ^ dying light's movement is great, and the grappling hook kinda takes away from it in some areas imo. If WF's actual movement was decent, then yeah, there would be no need for coptering. But as we are, we're pathetically slow for super powered ninjas. I have much more faith in them now than I did last year. I also never expect things to be perfect. I just expect then to be less wrong and for them to learn from mistakes. Warframe didn't have a clear idea of what it wanted to be a year or two ago. Now it definitely does. WF still has no idea what it wants to be still. Korean MMO? TPS? Dungeon Crawler? All of the above? Something else entirely? Edited June 22, 2015 by KvotheTheArcane1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihillian Posted June 22, 2015 Share Posted June 22, 2015 New parkour 2.0 should fix some issues that most people have with movement en rely on coptering as the result. Making wall running a more intergral part of movement could make how fast you move around the map base on skill. I actually like it. Currently, coptering is unpredictable and even annoying at times. But I rely on it to move around the map faster. Either getting away from enemies or towards my friendlies so I can res em. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Repligon Posted June 23, 2015 Share Posted June 23, 2015 (edited) Rocket jumping was actually NOT an intended behavior, it started out as a "bug" or "exploit" where someone could damage themselves with a rocket to propel themselves around (iirc, was first done in quake series), since then it's been expanded upon. Rocketjumping started out as someone "abusing" the self damage with rockets. Actually it was. Neither it was a bug. Explosions propelling characters is an intended part of game mechanics. Someone just realised that this mechanics can be used to propell oneself. Edited June 23, 2015 by Repligon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aigloblam Posted June 23, 2015 Share Posted June 23, 2015 Actually it was. Neither it was a bug. Explosions propelling characters is an intended part of game mechanics. Someone just realised that this mechanics can be used to propell oneself. Exactly how coptering works. Slide attacks increase your momentum, and normally while on the ground physics applies friction and you slow down. Coptering is simply a slide attack in the air, So you have very much reduced friction, so WEEEEEE In Warframe's case, someone realized you could use Physics to your advantage. Rocket jumping is still a thing that exists...Why can't coptering stay? If you dont like it, as always, Dont do it. Nobody is going to try to force you to use it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KvotheTheArcane1 Posted June 23, 2015 Share Posted June 23, 2015 Actually it was. Neither it was a bug. Explosions propelling characters is an intended part of game mechanics. Someone just realised that this mechanics can be used to propell oneself. intended for ENEMIES to be propelled by, not yourself, ergo, bug/exploit that got changed into a mechanic used in other games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalenath Posted June 23, 2015 Share Posted June 23, 2015 (edited) Lol parkour 2.0 is not about replacing coptering,its about having an improved movement system.Copter will in no form be a part of that new system.I hope. Oh! Do NOT confuse people with the FACTS. FACTS are meaningless when OPINIONS can be thrown about and ANGST can fly unfettered. LET THE HATE FLOW! Who CARES if they said coptering will not be removed? That it will be changed from a bug into an actual game mechanic? NOT IMPORTANT! RAGE ON DUDES! Edited June 23, 2015 by Kalenath Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deshiel Posted June 23, 2015 Share Posted June 23, 2015 What about adding supersprint? pressing foward twice while holding print would propel you foward like a projectile, with you tearing throught visible air currents and all that FX. It could have a massive drain on your stamina, but it would get you far enought to make it justified. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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