Leave Ash And His Ability's Alone He Does Not Need Your Help

[Chub_N_Tuck]

My build is weak how? It's for skilled survivability. I rely on all my skills to survive, not just SS, not just BS. I only ever solo T4 Survivals with this, of course just spamming 4 would be more efficient but I'm tired of doing that.

I realize my build is terrible, it's supposed to be, it's a challenge every time I use it, which is sort of my appeal with Ash.

I've had better builds, I HAVE better builds, but like I said, I like keeping Ash to his current theme, and melee the crap out of things and let the:

Rage < Teleport < Lifestrike combo wreck face.

Seriously. Try my build in a T4 Survival with a high damage melee weapon. You may like it.

No I won't like it, I don't like redirection on ash. I like having great power strength Tha enables 100% armor removal with shuriken augment. I'm honestly confused how your build is really making you rely on your own ability to survive. It just has redirection for more protection with a lot of duration which makes me think you use smokescreen mostly. You're relying on invisibility not your own skills.

My build actually utilize the usefulness of shuriken augment. Like I said I'm using all of the abilities. You're really trying to justify your build a little weirdly, calling it a challenge. Redirection with long duration tells me you don't really take challenge. My build was more glass cannon and I daresay mine is more challenging.

Your build is weak. You admit that it's terrible but it's not weak? Please. Maybe putting it in more provocative words put you off from agreement, but cmon. You seem to never agree.

Edited July 13, 2015 by Chuck_NoMiss

[(XBOX)Brennon Cook]

No I won't like it, I don't like redirection on ash. I like having great power strength Tha enables 100% armor removal with shuriken augment. I'm honestly confused how your build is really making you rely on your own ability to survive. It just has redirection for more protection with a lot of duration which makes me think you use smokescreen mostly. You're relying on invisibility not your own skills.

My build actually utilize the usefulness of shuriken augment. Like I said I'm using all of the abilities. You're really trying to justify your build a little weirdly, calling it a challenge. Redirection with long duration tells me you don't really take challenge. My build was more glass cannon and I daresay mine is more challenging.

Your build is weak. You admit that it's terrible but it's not weak? Please. Maybe putting it in more provocative words put you off from agreement, but cmon. You seem to never agree.

Having only 12 seconds of invisibility isn't a long time, lol, it's the base of Loki's, and I rarely use it. If I'm soloing t4 survivals why would I want a short lasting SS that I can't get around with. I'll use it to get my health back, pick up a teammate, grab life support, or get out of situations. Having a 6 second camo to a 12 second camo doesn't mean I spam it more, it means I'd rather not micromanage it. Going off that same suggestion I can say that you spam BS a lot with that 40% strength and no defensive mods. You simply cannot stay alive with 100 base shields and 65 armour. Even having a boost to that isn't enough. Having a redirection is weak? No, it prevents extra damage to my health so I don't have to stop and pull out my melee weapon.

I can, too, call your build pointless because if I run with a group it's with x4 corrosive projections.

I'm not sure you're exactly following.

I don't even recall mentioning anything about maxing power strength.

Regardless, the examples you provided are not fair comparisons to use as they fall out side of 99% of actual gameplay and balanced gameplay at that, for most players.

Is that a fact? Because about 80% of the players I used to play with consistently went to high waves of enemies. So why do I care if the people I don't play with don't? And I never said you mentioned anything about power strength, I was making a metaphor, it's a shame you couldn't piece that together.

[Chub_N_Tuck]

Having only 12 seconds of invisibility isn't a long time, lol, it's the base of Loki's, and I rarely use it. If I'm soloing t4 survivals why would I want a short lasting SS that I can't get around with. I'll use it to get my health back, pick up a teammate, grab life support, or get out of situations. Having a 6 second camo to a 12 second camo doesn't mean I spam it more, it means I'd rather not micromanage it. Going off that same suggestion I can say that you spam BS a lot with that 40% strength and no defensive mods. You simply cannot stay alive with 100 base shields and 65 armour. Even having a boost to that isn't enough. Having a redirection is weak? No, it prevents extra damage to my health so I don't have to stop and pull out my melee weapon.

I can, too, call your build pointless because if I run with a group it's with x4 corrosive projections.

Firstly, your duration mods have no point then. You don't use it much anyways, then why not have 7 second smoke screen like mine? There's no point having 5 extra seconds if you don't care much for it. You really contradict your own build there.

 

What I was arguing is that you really misunderstand your own build, saying your build is for "skilled survivability" when you are not even sure why you hold your duration mods and not make use of them at all. You use all your skills, but your build still is contradicting your point of "skilled survivability." Having redirection on with duration mods does make you sound like you have no idea how to build him. Ash has high health scaling, so he doesn't need to life steal all the time. You have 3 skills at your disposal to prevent enemy damage.

 

You really rely a lot on life stealing with melee, don't you? Putting that aside, your ash's abilities alone from your build is weaker than my ash's abilities from my build. Aside from the fact that you have other weapons, your build is not telling me that you use your abilities to their potentials.

 

And about corrosive projection, honestly, I've been running with my build for a long time now, and I run with pugs on survival, you don't see 4x corrosive projections all the time you run things. Having that armor removal makes my build more flexible, since there is no guarantee that everyone will agree to what I say and bring corrosive projection. It hardly happens.

 

You missed my point again. What I'm trying to say is that your build is very weak compared to mine, since it already contradicts your own thoughts and it doesn't make use of the effective utility that ash has for himself. And you specifically said redirection is for preventing the damage to your hp. And yet your build is for "skilled survivability?" Makes little sense to me, since you want the extra shield to protect you, but you talk about "skilled survivability," because I can survive just fine with only vitality, using smoke screen, teleport and blade storm.

 

I'm not saying you can't survive, I'm sure you have the ability on your own. But it's your build that doesn't make sense and you have, like I said, contradicted to your own thoughts.

 

No matter how you try to defend it, your build is weak for its poor focus on what's the priority.

Edited July 14, 2015 by Chuck_NoMiss

[(XBOX)Brennon Cook]

Firstly, your duration mods have no point then. You don't use it much anyways, then why not have 7 second smoke screen like mine? There's no point having 5 extra seconds if you don't care much for it. You really contradict your own build there.

 

What I was arguing is that you really misunderstand your own build, saying your build is for "skilled survivability" when you are not even sure why you hold your duration mods and not make use of them at all. You use all your skills, but your build still is contradicting your point of "skilled survivability." Having redirection on with duration mods does make you sound like you have no idea how to build him. Ash has high health scaling, so he doesn't need to life steal all the time. You have 3 skills at your disposal to prevent enemy damage.

 

You really rely a lot on life stealing with melee, don't you? Putting that aside, your ash's abilities alone from your build is weaker than my ash's abilities from my build. Aside from the fact that you have other weapons, your build is not telling me that you use your abilities to their potentials.

 

And about corrosive projection, honestly, I've been running with my build for a long time now, and I run with pugs on survival, you don't see 4x corrosive projections all the time you run things. Having that armor removal makes my build more flexible, since there is no guarantee that everyone will agree to what I say and bring corrosive projection. It hardly happens.

 

You missed my point again. What I'm trying to say is that your build is very weak compared to mine, since it already contradicts your own thoughts and it doesn't make use of the effective utility that ash has for himself. And you specifically said redirection is for preventing the damage to your hp. And yet your build is for "skilled survivability?" Makes little sense to me, since you want the extra shield to protect you, but you talk about "skilled survivability," because I can survive just fine with only vitality, using smoke screen, teleport and blade storm.

 

I'm not saying you can't survive, I'm sure you have the ability on your own. But it's your build that doesn't make sense and you have, like I said, contradicted to your own thoughts.

 

No matter how you try to defend it, your build is weak for its poor focus on what's the priority.

Great opinion and personal experiences. I'm sure your personal experiences really cater to your seeking shurikan. I'm glad you you can judge my person experiences base off of your own.

Not only will any decent and intellectual solo player tell you you at least need two defensive mods on any frame, but it's almost a necessity on Ash. Are you actually going to tell me his high health pool will prevent him from needing life steal? Lol. His armour is 150 on Ash Prime, even with that increase in armour you'll be one shotted by a Nulifiers sniper. I already told you specifically why I prefer more duration over 20% more power strength, because I'd rather not micromanage my abilities on a terrible controller. It's very easy when you only need to press 1-4, console players need to touch like 5 different buttons to activate abilities.

So you're going to call my choice in defensive mods bad, despite a very well known solo player like Faitko for example, using rage, QT, redirection and vitality on her Ash, and many other frames? Lol. Have you soloed high level content before? If you aren't maximizing defences then you're either spamming abilities or getting one shotted.

Seriously. How are you going to tell me a seeking shurikan build obviously set up to play with a team is better than my build obviously set up to solo? nd even then, your build is pretty much useless with the players I, MYSELF, run with

[Aphelion_Sole]

Great opinion and personal experiences. I'm sure your personal experiences really cater to your seeking shurikan. I'm glad you you can judge my person experiences base off of your own.

Not only will any decent and intellectual solo player tell you you at least need two defensive mods on any frame, but it's almost a necessity on Ash. Are you actually going to tell me his high health pool will prevent him from needing life steal? Lol. His armour is 150 on Ash Prime, even with that increase in armour you'll be one shotted by a Nulifiers sniper. I already told you specifically why I prefer more duration over 20% more power strength, because I'd rather not micromanage my abilities on a terrible controller. It's very easy when you only need to press 1-4, console players need to touch like 5 different buttons to activate abilities.

So you're going to call my choice in defensive mods bad, despite a very well known solo player like Faitko for example, using rage, QT, redirection and vitality on her Ash, and many other frames? Lol. Have you soloed high level content before? If you aren't maximizing defences then you're either spamming abilities or getting one shotted.

Seriously. How are you going to tell me a seeking shurikan build obviously set up to play with a team is better than my build obviously set up to solo? nd even then, your build is pretty much useless with the players I, MYSELF, run with

you have no room to talk about soloing a high leveled stuff with an ash until your in a raid and you have your whole team disconnects and you go and spend 1 1/2 hours finishing it yourself.

[-CM-Valen]

Before we all ask for reworks.. let's keep in mind no one frame is perfect. And that should be the case. If not.. everyone will be aiming to use that one frame and one frame only.

Edited July 14, 2015 by valenvengence

[Chub_N_Tuck]

Great opinion and personal experiences. I'm sure your personal experiences really cater to your seeking shurikan. I'm glad you you can judge my person experiences base off of your own.

Not only will any decent and intellectual solo player tell you you at least need two defensive mods on any frame, but it's almost a necessity on Ash. Are you actually going to tell me his high health pool will prevent him from needing life steal? Lol. His armour is 150 on Ash Prime, even with that increase in armour you'll be one shotted by a Nulifiers sniper. I already told you specifically why I prefer more duration over 20% more power strength, because I'd rather not micromanage my abilities on a terrible controller. It's very easy when you only need to press 1-4, console players need to touch like 5 different buttons to activate abilities.

So you're going to call my choice in defensive mods bad, despite a very well known solo player like Faitko for example, using rage, QT, redirection and vitality on her Ash, and many other frames? Lol. Have you soloed high level content before? If you aren't maximizing defences then you're either spamming abilities or getting one shotted.

Seriously. How are you going to tell me a seeking shurikan build obviously set up to play with a team is better than my build obviously set up to solo? nd even then, your build is pretty much useless with the players I, MYSELF, run with

You and I obviously have different definitions of "decent" and "intellectual." I cannot even begin to argue at this point with your contradictions lying around you and believing your build is setup for better teamplay. You've made yet another contradiction by saying you can actually play better teammates, since you already have been saying ash needs to have some utility that benefits the team. He isn't meant for teamplay with the current kits, if you are not running smoke screen augment.

 

Your argument is really weird, since any ash's builds aren't comparable for teamplay much. Yours and mine both don't benefit teammates at all lol

 

How can you even doubt me running high level missions? I don't need to spam abilities when I'm not even surrounded by enemies all the time. That's why you can take covers. And what's wrong with spamming all of his abilities? It's not making me play him in a bad way, spamming only blade storm, sit down and watch cutscenes.

 

I don't know that solo player you mention, so I won't judge on that guy. You have given me enough information about yourself to make me judge your build.

 

Having redirection is just wasting a mod slot when you don't even need it. Like I said, my build offers more utiliy, flexibility and more challenge. It seems you really cannot survive with your redirection. I have been running ash with only vitality as defensive mod. I keep telling you that, but all you keep saying is "it's impossible." Yes, It's possible. Redirection is unnecessary. Period.

 

EDIT: Oh forgot you're a console player. it's obvious that it's harder for you to play. I don't know how harder it is, but i'm sure it is harder to use that teleport to get away or even use your guns more effectively since mouse provides more precision. You have my pity console player. I can understand, you have less chance of survival and redirection may be needed for you. But I really do not need it, I'm telling you, I don't.

Edited July 14, 2015 by Chuck_NoMiss

[(XBOX)Brennon Cook]

Before we all ask for reworks.. let's keep in mind no one frame is perfect. And that should be the case. If not.. everyone will be aiming to use that one frame and one frame only.

It's not about perfection. It's about balancing the given utilities we have to the current end game content. Unless they specifically say they're not doing that then I expect frames like Ash and Hydroid to be viable in the end game.

[(XBOX)Brennon Cook]

You and I obviously have different definitions of "decent" and "intellectual." I cannot even begin to argue at this point with your contradictions lying around you and believing your build is setup for better teamplay. You've made yet another contradiction by saying you can actually play better teammates, since you already have been saying ash needs to have some utility that benefits the team. He isn't meant for teamplay with the current kits, if you are not running smoke screen augment.

 

How can you even doubt me running high level missions? I don't need to spam abilities when I'm not even surrounded by enemies all the time. That's why you can take covers. And what's wrong with spamming all of his abilities? It's not making me play him in a bad way, spamming only blade storm, sit down and watch cutscenes.

 

I don't know that solo player you mention, so I won't judge on that guy. You have given me enough information about yourself to make me judge your build.

 

Having redirection is just wasting a mod slot when you don't even need it. Like I said, my build offers more utiliy, flexibility and more challenge. It seems you really cannot survive with your redirection. I have been running ash with only vitality as defensive mod. I keep telling you that, but all you keep saying is "it's impossible." Yes, It's possible. Redirection is unnecessary. Period.

Go 40 minutes by yourself with your build. It'll be hilarious.

The funniest part is that, despite you being completely unfamiliar with soloing content you have knowledge to somehow tell me defensive mods are unimportant.

I'm not blaming any player for spamming abilities. It's DE's fault for making it significantly easier to spam abilities then to actually use your weapons.

Jesus, when did I say my build was set up for team play when I specifically said I use a SS build for team play, and a general build for solo. Are you even reading at this point?

[Chub_N_Tuck]

Go 40 minutes by yourself with your build. It'll be hilarious.

The funniest part is that, despite you being completely unfamiliar with soloing content you have knowledge to somehow tell me defensive mods are unimportant.

I'm not blaming any player for spamming abilities. It's DE's fault for making it significantly easier to spam abilities then to actually use your weapons.

Jesus, when did I say my build was set up for team play when I specifically said I use a SS build for team play, and a general build for solo. Are you even reading at this point?

 

EDIT: Oh forgot you're a console player. it's obvious that it's harder for you to play. I don't know how harder it is, but i'm sure it is harder to use that teleport to get away or even use your guns more effectively since mouse provides more precision. You have my pity console player. I can understand, you have less chance of survival and redirection may be needed for you. But I really do not need it, I'm telling you, I don't. And you keep assuming I spam abilities alone... I use my weapons when I'm not surrounded since I won't be surrounded all the time. Please think...

 

Jesus, when did I say my build was set up for team play when I specifically said I use a SS build for team play, and a general build for solo. Are you even reading at this point?

 

You really are not reading my points. I've been comparing your build to mine, and now you're saying what you can do with smoke screen? You've gone off track yourself... and now you're gonna say I don't even read LOL

Edited July 14, 2015 by Chuck_NoMiss

[(XBOX)Brennon Cook]

EDIT: Oh forgot you're a console player. it's obvious that it's harder for you to play. I don't know how harder it is, but i'm sure it is harder to use that teleport to get away or even use your guns more effectively since mouse provides more precision. You have my pity console player. I can understand, you have less chance of survival and redirection may be needed for you. But I really do not need it, I'm telling you, I don't.

 

You really are not reading my points. I've been comparing your build to mine, and now you're saying what you can do with smoke screen? You've gone off track yourself... and now you're gonna say I don't even read LOL

Even the best solo PC players use multiple defensive mods. Just go watch Faitko, she's an easy and available asset to explain to someone. You can't survive very long by yourself with only a vitality.

I said a very long time ago that I use SS for team play, and I hate it because it's still a one trick pony move, like BladeStorm. I also had to say to you six times that my build is for solo play and general play. While you were unspecific of how you used your build other than that you use it.

I was simply replying to you suggesting that my solo and general use build was set up for end game squad play.

[(PSN)inuyasha279]

You don't use two defense mods on everything. Ash has the most health so it's less needed. Would you put redirection on Valkyr?

Even the best... Mogamu did a video using Excalibur who has less shields and health without redirection (playing with the lotus, Rebecca doing that challenge)

[(XBOX)Brennon Cook]

You don't use two defense mods on everything. Ash has the most health so it's less needed. Would you put redirection on Valkyr?

Even the best... Mogamu did a video using Excalibur who has less shields and health without redirection (playing with the lotus, Rebecca doing that challenge)

You'd use steel fibre and vitality. Two defensive mods. I'd probably use rage and QT, too, if I was soloing a T4.

[Rexlars]

With the recent Ash Prime Hype i now see posts to completely rework him

 

People have been posting Ash rework concepts looooong before he got Primed. 

[(PSN)L-B-H-100]

so your telling us that his Teleport dosnt need a rework?

 

careful what your selfish reasons want, cause maybe a change to ash would make him better.

 

[Chub_N_Tuck]

Even the best solo PC players use multiple defensive mods. Just go watch Faitko, she's an easy and available asset to explain to someone. You can't survive very long by yourself with only a vitality.

I said a very long time ago that I use SS for team play, and I hate it because it's still a one trick pony move, like BladeStorm. I also had to say to you six times that my build is for solo play and general play. While you were unspecific of how you used your build other than that you use it.

I was simply replying to you suggesting that my solo and general use build was set up for end game squad play.

Great, another off track with your solo play argument now. Since when did I begin to argue about solo play? Now you're going other topics it's just funny. 

 

You don't need redirection for anything. Even for solo play. You doubted me if I playe high end content, then let me tell you. That extra shield from redirection isn't gonna help you one bit if you go high level. Please.

[(XBOX)Brennon Cook]

Great, another off track with your solo play argument now. Since when did I begin to argue about solo play? Now you're going other topics it's just funny.

You don't need redirection for anything. Even for solo play. You doubted me if I playe high end content, then let me tell you. That extra shield from redirection isn't gonna help you one bit if you go high level. Please.

Level 70-90 enemies aren't going to kill you so fast it's pointless for a defensive mod. That's getting into the area of level 200 enemies and being with a team.

You're meaning to tell me you're not arguing about solo play, but you just precisely told me you don't need any defensive mods for solo play, despite you being inexperienced with solo play. Go solo a T4 Survival with your build, because it's hilarious on how you think you know what you're talking about.

So because you already forgot what you said in reply to me explaining my SOLO build "Your argument is really weird, since any ash's builds aren't comparable for teamplay much. Yours and mine both don't benefit teammates at all lol".

Edited July 14, 2015 by (XB1)Spartan Cook

[Chub_N_Tuck]

Level 70-90 enemies aren't going to kill you so fast it's pointless for a defensive mod. That's getting into the area of level 200 enemies and being with a team.

You're meaning to tell me you're not arguing about solo play, but you just precisely told me you don't need any defensive mods for solo play, despite you being inexperienced with solo play. Go solo a T4 Survival with your build, because it's hilarious on how you think you know what you're talking about.

 

Oh they will, 70-90 will hit you hard. I know what I'm talking about and because you went off track with your contradictions behind you, I just brought it up in one sentence. Seriously though, when you're on forum, everyone is correct and true for them, there cannot be discussion further. This is really frustrating it's funny LOL

[(XBOX)Brennon Cook]

Oh they will, 70-90 will hit you hard. I know what I'm talking about and because you went off track with your contradictions behind you, I just brought it up in one sentence. Seriously though, when you're on forum, everyone is correct and true for them, there cannot be discussion further. This is really frustrating it's funny LOL

I'm done with this, I really don't care and the clashing of opinions is never going to work out. I hope you're not offended over my opinions on a video game. I'm going to move on with my life and I appologize or wasting our time. Have a good rest of your week. :)

[(PSN)inuyasha279]

You'd use steel fibre and vitality. Two defensive mods. I'd probably use rage and QT, too, if I was soloing a T4.

That only responds to Valkyr...

Anyway you still don't need two defense mods on everything. Like Loki who avoids damage. Arcane trickery Ash builds do the same thing.

Edited July 14, 2015 by (PS4)inuyasha279

[Chub_N_Tuck]

I'm done with this, I really don't care and the clashing of opinions is never going to work out. I hope you're not offended over my opinions on a video game. I'm going to move on with my life and I appologize or wasting our time. Have a good rest of your week. :)

Oh, I wouldn't be offended. I think I've been to enough forums to be offended by something like this. It's always arguments that make forums like this, and some productive discussions don't really come out. We've both been on this thread for a while now and it's just always not understanding each other. It happens all the time. It's something to be least offended about.

 

I honestly don't see how having 400 extra shield is gonna make a big difference though, it's definitely funny and frustrating.

Edited July 14, 2015 by Chuck_NoMiss

[(XBOX)Brennon Cook]

Oh, I wouldn't be offended. I think I've been to enough forums to be offended by something like this. It's always arguments that make forums like this, and some productive discussions don't really come out. We've both been on this thread for a while now and it's just always not understanding each other. It happens all the time. It's something to be least offended about.

I honestly don't see how having 400 extra shield is gonna make a big difference though, it's definitely funny and frustrating.

Having a vitality and a redirection gives you 900+ shields and 1100 health. That's a big deal for damage mitigation leading up to high levels, and can keep you alive. Shields are great. Edited July 14, 2015 by (XB1)Spartan Cook

[Tesseract7777]

Having a vitality and a redirection gives you 900+ shields and 1100 health. That's a big deal for damage mitigation leading up to high levels, and can keep you alive. Shields are great.

 

How long has it been since you played Ash? An Ash with a maxed Redirection won't have more than 740 total shields. That's 440 extra shields over the 300 base he would have at rank 30 without any shield mods. So yeah, using Redirection on Ash is a bump of a little over 400 in shields. 

 

Or are you going solely by the Primed version? Because you claim to have been using Redirection on your setup for a long time, but you are currently talking about the prime numbers. 

 

Primed Ash can get his shields up to 925. Non-prime Ash, the version you say you've been playing for a long time with your redirection build, only gets 740 shields with the shield mod, with is only 440 extra shields. 

 

Again, kind of silly for you to try to argue using the prime numbers, when you claim to have been using your build for so much longer than the prime version was around. Seems like a dishonest and misleading argument to make. 

Edited July 14, 2015 by Tesseract7777

[SicSlaver]

I am against a rework a few tweaks would be welcome but not the excal treatment. I started this thread for all the primarily Ash players as people are calling for a rework now only because he got primed while others of us have always liked him and now people who never play him think they know better

People might have never played him because he was boring to play for those people and hence they want a rework on him. I honestly don't play Ash either. It's because I was waiting for his Prime version to come out. I didn't want to waste a potato on his regular version. His skills could use more utility and his 4th could use more player interactivity.

 

I would much prefer to play him if his 4th ability was like Exalted Blade, which I know you hate very much, so that I can at least aim and spam my melee attacks. And who wouldn't want their melee mods to also work with their ability weapons?! I've been wishing for it to act like the Archwing melee where he'll lock on to the nearest enemy in the direction you're pressing or aiming at and he'll teleport into melee range of the enemy. But since you're so adamantly against change, it probably won't happen and I won't get to have my fun. :(

 

I also hate his clones since they weren't originally part of his concept.

 

I could totally make a rework thread, but I won't out of respect for you! Ruining my fun!

Edited July 14, 2015 by SicSlaver

[aerosoul1337]

With the recent Ash Prime Hype i now see posts to completely rework him don't even go there he works fine he is an great Assassin if you want long lasting stealth play get a loki.

 

Before he got primed most players did not pay him 2 cents of notice now all of a sudden he needs a rework he does not some of us have played him since the early beta and like him as he is.

 

No, he is buggy and need rework.

Whoever said he is fine is probably not a real ash lover.

Any frame got rework is definitely a lot stronger except Mesa that I hope to be nerfed.

Edited July 14, 2015 by aerosoul1337