Leave Ash And His Ability's Alone He Does Not Need Your Help

[WernerShadow]

I did. Pretty interesting stuff. :).

I think the problem is that in the end unlike Frost or nova or trinity Ash does not help bad players play better by keeping them alive so players dont like him Mesa in this regard is no better as her CC is highly unreliable because it shifts unexpectedly from 1 person to the next.Having played mesa quite a bit ive sern if enemys get to powerful she does not always kill them fast enough eather and your bad team mates die does that make her bad no but people hating getting downed. That all being said like i now discovered there might be more synergy between all the frames than we all realise but we have gotten stuck in a pattern and reduse to explore new options in terms of team work

[Tesseract7777]

I'd like to see someone do a T4 endless with Radiant Finish Excal, Savage Silence Banshee, Rising Storm Ash and Pilfering Swarm Hydroid. I'll bet it would go really well and be fun too. 

[WernerShadow]

You're not actually supposed to be able to go past 40 minutes. Things that allow you to do that = things that will get nerfed as game nears full release. You go to 90, but you're not supposed to. Like I remember you could go outside of map and become invincible in Killzone 2 for a while. Then they patched it and it became impossible.

In other words, 40 minutes is the balance point. Ash doesn't need a buff, some other stuff needs nerfs.

I cant agree with this its fun challenging your skill and the longer you go the more your skills are tested if they remove that i would like to see maps added that have level 80 enemys as a starting point

[(XBOX)Brennon Cook]

Fair enough with the replies, but your focus is all about defending your stance of things here, ignoring all of my points about ash's viability actually outclassing other frames that really desperately need.

 

You are not being intelligent for sure for what you keep arguing. My focus was on how he doesn't need it as much as others do.

Other frames need buffs, like Hydroid. He's only used for farming now. But this post was specifically about Ash. So if this post is about Ash you focus on Ash, just because I suggest Ash gets buffed for better squad play doesn't mean I don't think something like Hydroid doesn't be given more squad play utility, too.

:Starts the whole argument by writing stupid posts:

"I also combat stupid posts with stupid replies. You can probably tell I'm being intelligent right now." :facepalm:

My first stupid post was suggesting a profile picture makes me good. I don't know how suggesting Ash shouldn't be a 4 spamming autopilot frame is stupid. Just because he has the most damaging ult doesn't make it good. Like I said, I can hit 20k on armoured enemies, higher with viral and corrosive projections, and 1 million with a Banshee.

[WernerShadow]

I'd like to see someone do a T4 endless with Radiant Finish Excal, Savage Silence Banshee, Rising Storm Ash and Pilfering Swarm Hydroid. I'll bet it would go really well and be fun too.

I happen to forget to change my excals build back and played a T3 survival seems it also makes his ult do more damage i was getting 80k crits with a normal 100% power strenght

[(PSN)inuyasha279]

You're not actually supposed to be able to go past 40 minutes. Tge wall was obviously a bug while we can go as long as we want Things that allow you to do that = things that will get nerfed as game nears full release. You go to 90, but you're not supposed to. Like I remember you could go outside of map and become invincible in Killzone 2 for a while. Then they patched it and it became impossible.

In other words, 40 minutes is the balance point. Ash doesn't need a buff, some other stuff needs nerfs.

Those are two completely different things. And besides 40 min enemies aren't even raid level. Edited July 12, 2015 by (PS4)inuyasha279

[Doom_Bunny]

"Since Ash prime came out..." Nope.

 

Talk about a rework for him has been going on long before his prime came out. Sure there wasn't as many people paying attention but that doesn't mean there wasn't any talk about him.

 

Shuriken: Only two shots, fair damage, and sometimes it's like watching Nyx's old bolts except you can follow them. "Go shuriken :D *straight to the floor* WTH!" "Shuriken! *performs a sharp turn right infront of the enemy, lodges in wall* fuuuuuu"

Smoke screen: This move is pretty much a copy of Loki besides the knock back, people want to change that.

Teleport: Most people do find this move hard to use but some of us also find it easy and like the finisher it sets up.

Bladestorm: This move is practicaly always talked about. It takes the player out of the game to show them a buggy animation. Then there is the whole pvp talk, slaming him for having this ability

 

This isn't to say I don't like Ash (hell I love this guy) but he definately could be better.

 

What I've seen people suggest before Ash prime:

 

Shuriken: Multiple shuriken based on the ability level. Better homing capabilities.

 

Smoke screen: Actual smoke based on range an duration. The effects would be similar to radial blind, open finishers for the team, blind enemies who enter, and hide the whole team allowing for healing and sorts.

 

Teleport: There was a nice thread recently about teleporting and parkour. Anyway before this people mostly wanted him to teleport to anywhere. A better suggestion was to open up more things to teleport to i.e life support, excavation drill.

 

Bladestorm: People have suggested turning this into a stance which would be great. However it would still need something like sending out clones to not lose the cc.

 

People have wanted changes for a while and they have presented ways (which may not be presented above) in which he could improve; making more abilities viable, diversifying him from Loki, and opening the gates of team play for him.

Edited July 13, 2015 by Postal_pat

[Chub_N_Tuck]

Other frames need buffs, like Hydroid. He's only used for farming now. But this post was specifically about Ash. So if this post is about Ash you focus on Ash, just because I suggest Ash gets buffed for better squad play doesn't mean I don't think something like Hydroid doesn't be given more squad play utility, too.

All things considered, I can't help but think he's just fine as he is right now, because his smokescreen augment mod can actually help in various missions like excavation and defense. Also good for camping in random spots. I'm mentioning other frames because there are other reworks that I have been longing for, and ash is the least I would expect. I mean, if people ask like this after prime release, surely they're asking for it as soon as it can be, and I'm telling people that there are priorities in DE's minds, with some reworks queued up to be done one by one. Ash won't probably be reworked too soon.

Edited July 12, 2015 by Chuck_NoMiss

[(XBOX)Brennon Cook]

All things considered, I can't help but think he's just fine as he is right now, because his smokescreen augment mod can actually help in various missions like excavation and defense. Also good for camping in random spots. I'm mentioning other frames because there are other reworks that I have been longing for, and ash is the least I would expect. I mean, if people ask like this after prime release, surely they're asking for it as soon as it can be.

For sure. But I don't want to comment on other frames. Ash is very effective, that still doesn't change the fact, that with the addition of Raids, all frames need to have viability in this game, or they need to tell us "this game is a tiered system, we love powercreep". As it stands, I cannot play Ash in the raid because the community agrees he's useless for ENDGAME.

Now, team smokescreen is great, but still, is a one trick pony power. I believe shurikans need to have some sort of redesign, along with BS and SS. Think about it, why does Ash only have 8 seconds opposed to Loki's 12? Is it because Ash has more health? Because of the knock back? You can clearly tell this game was originally balanced around extermination missions on Saturn. This is why I fight for a redesign.

Edited July 12, 2015 by (XB1)Spartan Cook

[(PSN)Lord_Gremlin]

For sure. But I don't want to comment on other frames. Ash is very effective, that still doesn't change the fact, that with the addition of Raids, all frames need to have viability in this game, or they need to tell us "this game is a tiered system, we love powercreep". As it stands, I cannot play Ash in the raid because the community agrees he's useless for ENDGAME.

Now, team smokescreen is great, but still, is a one trick pony power. I believe shurikans need to have some sort of redesign, along with BS and SS. Think about it, why does Ash only have 8 seconds opposed to Loki's 12? Is it because Ash has more health? Because of the knock back? You can clearly tell this game was originally balanced around extermination missions on Saturn. This is why I fight for a redesign.

Maybe raid is simply raw and poorly balanced? You know, initial release of such content is rarely balanced in this game. T4 survival has been around for a while and I never see people afraid of using a well-modded ash there. Eventually raids will be fixed.

[(XBOX)Brennon Cook]

Maybe raid is simply raw and poorly balanced? You know, initial release of such content is rarely balanced in this game. T4 survival has been around for a while and I never see people afraid of using a well-modded ash there. Eventually raids will be fixed.

Of course it is, it undeniably favours specific frames. The fact that enemies in the raid can be disarmed is just stupid. If they took that away, not only would Ash be viable, by damage dealing frames would become essential.

But, even if you think about it, an infested raid or a corpus raid wouldn't make Ash any more desirable. It's just the way he's set up, and I can say that about many original frames. They were balanced before there was an actual endgame, before people even started doing T3's.

[Tesseract7777]

Of course it is, it undeniably favours specific frames. The fact that enemies in the raid can be disarmed is just stupid. If they took that away, not only would Ash be viable, by damage dealing frames would become essential.

But, even if you think about it, an infested raid or a corpus raid wouldn't make Ash any more desirable. It's just the way he's set up, and I can say that about many original frames. They were balanced before there was an actual endgame, before people even started doing T3's.

 

I'm not sure the problem there is the frames though, I think it's the raid itself. 

 

Building the game the way they have, and then designing the raid in such a way that people are yelled at for actually killing things, seems to be counter-intuitive to their own vision for the game. I think the raid itself needs a lot of work. 

[(XBOX)Brennon Cook]

I'm not sure the problem there is the frames though, I think it's the raid itself.

Building the game the way they have, and then designing the raid in such a way that people are yelled at for actually killing things, seems to be counter-intuitive to their own vision for the game. I think the raid itself needs a lot of work.

Honestly, just get rid of the fact that you can literally just deny the enemies to actually shoot you, and that alone would be a right step in the direction of making frames like Ash, Frost, and any others could have in terms of usefulness.

Currently it's just favouring frames that can move fast, deny enemy engagement, and slow the enemy down. It's just too easy.

A T4 is a different story though, since enemies scale and will kill you even when you're disarming them. Especially with nulifiers.

Edited July 12, 2015 by (XB1)Spartan Cook

[Jakro]

Is that your mentality? "Leave him as trash, leave him as a low level frame and useless in the endgame". I have 300 in mission hours on Ash, and he's trash. His amazing Bladestorm ability is pretty terrible against level 90 enemies, and his SS only lasts 8 seconds at base. Not to mention even his Primed Version is super fragile, as he has no armour.

Ash needs a rework, if this game is going down the path of providing an end game then all frames need to be viable for it. End of discussion.

Honestly? I feel like instead of making the warframes stronger, they can release stronger mods to make their abilities stronger that way. Which they are already doing in the form of primed mods. In the end, if you don't think Ash is strong enough, you're probably not modding him right.

[(PSN)RNickS_BRASIL]

I don't care about those things talking about ash abilities actually what really call my attention about recent Released ASH PRIME is this  >>> https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/488216-ash-prime-textures-mesh-animation-bugs-collection-thread/ 

 

 

Ash Prime bugs , issues , troubles , fails ...(...)... Collections

Edited July 12, 2015 by (PS4)RNickS_BRASIL

[Tesseract7777]

Honestly, just get rid of the fact that you can literally just deny the enemies to actually shoot you, and that alone would be a right step in the direction of making frames like Ash, Frost, and any others could have in terms of usefulness.

Currently it's just favouring frames that can move fast, deny enemy engagement, and slow the enemy down. It's just too easy.

A T4 is a different story though, since enemies scale and will kill you even when you're disarming them. Especially with nulifiers.

 

Yeah, right now stuff like raid is all about crowd control and pretty much nothing else, so if you don't have that or some amazing utility abilities like Trin, no one wants you in the raid. In my opinion we should get diminishing returns on enemies we keep CC'ing with the same abilities in the raid, then give us some objective reason to actually kill them. When the highest level advertised content in the game wants you to not even kill the enemies, something is very wrong there. 

[(PSN)Lord_Gremlin]

I'm not sure the problem there is the frames though, I think it's the raid itself. 

 

Building the game the way they have, and then designing the raid in such a way that people are yelled at for actually killing things, seems to be counter-intuitive to their own vision for the game. I think the raid itself needs a lot of work. 

This. For example, take Simon says part of the raid. Zero love for this crap? What if enemies weren't endless. What if you could kill them all and failing the puzzle would spawn another wave? Now that would make sense. A lot of stuff like that needs to happen.

[Acos]

9 Pages of "I don't know how to play Ash" later...

[(XBOX)Brennon Cook]

Yeah, right now stuff like raid is all about crowd control and pretty much nothing else, so if you don't have that or some amazing utility abilities like Trin, no one wants you in the raid. In my opinion we should get diminishing returns on enemies we keep CC'ing with the same abilities in the raid, then give us some objective reason to actually kill them. When the highest level advertised content in the game wants you to not even kill the enemies, something is very wrong there.

I'd go as far to say that when your most difficult content is auto-piloted, something is wrong. Nothing in the raid is unique in different attempts unless your teammates suck. That's what makes it unique.

Right now you just, 4, sprint, 4, hack, 4, run, 4, hack, 4, shoot, 4, win.

[Rakosta_Kai]

9 Pages of "I don't know how to play Ash" later...

 

It's like you read my mind...

[S.T.M.P.D]

No no no no 1000 times no go away

I fail to see how having an extended killing cutscene is "cool" in any way. Shouldn't an ult rack up kills based on how good you are with it?

[Chub_N_Tuck]

I fail to see how having an extended killing cutscene is "cool" in any way. Shouldn't an ult rack up kills based on how good you are with it?

Then you could say the same thing for almost EVERY skills. Casted skills don't really tell you how good you are with it. Think about it.

 

Almost every AoE 4th abilities are like that. The only difference BladeStorm has is a cutscene.

Edited July 13, 2015 by Chuck_NoMiss

[--Faiz--]

Alright...

"90+ minutes in a T4 survival. Level 160 heavy gunners have over 345,000 health. This isn't counting Eximus type heavy gunners(1 spawns with every group) which have over 600,000 health and Nullifiers. A max power bladestorm with 3x melee combo, which Nullifiers WILL interrupt your combo counters, only does roughly 50-60k including bleed damage.

Throwing out arbitrary numbers just because you think they 'feel' right isn't truth, its misleading. And you would get away with it too, since most people will never go that long. Much less with Ash; but anyone who has been that long with any frame will know what ridiculous bullet sponges everything becomes past level 90. And how it takes focus-fire headshots from 2-3 squad members to bring down one eximus at level 150+."

Don't even tell me how to play Ash if you're going to tell me to spam 4, when a SS build is significantly better.

Also, don't tell me "no one goes past 90 minutes", I used to consistently go to 3 hours before the game began to be unplayable with all the bugs on console.

 

LOL enemy health has a cap, that means once it reaches x amount of hp, it won't go any higher regardless of the enemy's level. Only enemy's armor scales infinitely so your point is invalid. Go back to play CoD like you console players always had.

[Tesseract7777]

I fail to see how having an extended killing cutscene is "cool" in any way. Shouldn't an ult rack up kills based on how good you are with it?

 

Then you could say the same thing for almost EVERY skills. Casted skills don't really tell you how good you are with it. Think about it.

 

Almost every AoE 4th abilities are like that. The only difference BladeStorm has is a cutscene.

 

Exactly. When you really think about it, apart from Excalibur, and sort of Valkyr, how many frames have ultimate's that actually require any thought or interaction from the player when used/during use. You could almost make an argument for Zephyr's ult because she can use her weapons to change the tornado's elemental damage type I guess, but nearly all ultimate's are pretty much 100% non-interactive once pressed at this point in the game. Excalibur is very much the exception and not the rule. 

 

Sure it would be great if all ults were more interactive, but that would require reworking like... every single ult in the damn game lol, and that's not going to happen for a looooong time. 

[vaugahn]

Exactly. When you really think about it, apart from Excalibur, and sort of Valkyr, how many frames have ultimate's that actually require any thought or interaction from the player when used/during use.

 

The difference between all those other ults and something like Bladestorm or Peacemaker is that those other ones don't slap the controls out of your hand for an extended period of time while you're using them.