Leave Ash And His Ability's Alone He Does Not Need Your Help

[Chub_N_Tuck]

What if the augment gave some of the lifesteal back to the squad at large as well? That would give him some more utility with his augments to help the squad. Then let us actually increase the range of Smoke Shadow augment with range mods. 

I would love some good teleport augment mod now... What you've said is alright I guess, but it doesn't fit the theme of ash I feel like. How about giving like 10 sec invisibility when performed on teammate? Or giving damage buff?

[(XBOX)Brennon Cook]

I would love some good teleport augment mod now... What you've said is alright I guess, but it doesn't fit the theme of ash I feel like. How about giving like 10 sec invisibility when performed on teammate? Or giving damage buff?

I think if we're to get anything it would probably be the self heal. There's arcane enhancements that make you invisible after you perform a finisher.

[Tesseract7777]

I would love some good teleport augment mod now... What you've said is alright I guess, but it doesn't fit the theme of ash I feel like. How about giving like 10 sec invisibility when performed on teammate? Or giving damage buff?

 

The way I was thinking of it was that if life steal is okay in any part of is kit, wouldn't it be okay to have it help the squad too? 

 

But it doesn't need to be a lifesteal augment for teleport. I'd love to see any kind of damage buff. Maybe an increase to everyone's melee multiplier, or something. So many possibilities. 

[Soju.]

 

Always room for improvement. In my opinion, his first and 3 is dull and lame.

First ability isn't interesting at all. It's dull and barely anyone uses it, and even if they do, they rarely do. Aug reduces armor, good bleed proc.

Third ability, Loki already has this, even though the main difference is teleport to/switch position to, but similar enough, but doesn't have much uses later on in the game. But I can see people argue that we can use this for escape, but I'm going to be honest here, spinning forward with your weps is a better way to travel and faster and easier that this ability, plus, if you want to escape, there's that 2nd ability, which mind you, loki also has, and does a better job at it too.

3rd is lets you do a finisher on an enemy.

2nd stuns enemies also unlike loki's and has an aug where he cloaks close allies.

I hope they do a rework for all the frames. Especially Nekros, I don't want a reaper that is only useful in most cases and as a trash doubler. I hope they rework his model too.

 

Even if his 2nd ability stuns enemies, loki's ability can also "confuse" them. Lots of which you said are cool, but really first ability needs an augment to be useful? I would not sacrifice my mod slot for that dull ability,maybe, it would have been better if the default ability itself has the features the augment provides instead of sacrificing another mod slot for it, it'd be way more useful.

 

And also, with Loki's switch teleport augment (Safeguard Siwtch), you can also make your ally invulnerable for 6 seconds, which imo is better than cloaking allies, though not everyone, only one that is switch teleported, both has its uses.

[(XBOX)Brennon Cook]

I originally said shurikans should be given innate lifestrike, no not an augment. Buffed. But I think lifestrike on a teleport finisher would be better, people would actually use the skill a lot. I know I would.

And Blade storm be changed to three clones, and leaves Ash out of the ability itself, granting it the same damage, but increases CC potential. And make BS'd targets be damagable to allies.

Perfect buff, maybe a bit too OP as he'd become the next Mesa.

Edit: maybe only two clones to extend the duration of the power and nerf the spamming of the ability. Three clones would be too efficient if Ash was allowed to shoot enemies himself along with BSing.

Edited July 13, 2015 by (XB1)Spartan Cook

[Chub_N_Tuck]

I originally said shurikans should be given innate lifestrike, no not an augment. Buffed. But I think lifestrike on a teleport finisher would be better, people would actually use the skill a lot. I know I would.

And Blade storm be changed to three clones, and leaves Ash out of the ability itself, granting it the same damage, but increases CC potential. And make BS'd targets be damagable to allies.

Perfect buff, maybe a bit too OP as he'd become the next Mesa.

Edit: maybe only two clones to extend the duration of the power and nerf the spamming of the ability. Three clones would be too efficient if Ash was allowed to shoot enemies himself along with BSing.

 

His augment on blade storm should be like that. Give control to the player, and when blade storm is in process, give the original body of ash invisibility and +100% slash proc

[(XBOX)Brennon Cook]

His augment on blade storm should be like that. Give control to the player, and when blade storm is in process, give the original body of ash invisibility and +100% slash proc

Invisibility while BSing would unbalance his SS and force people to just 4 all day and nothing else. :/

I guess we'll just have to see the new star chart if they're going to properly balance 4 frames.

[Chub_N_Tuck]

Invisibility while BSing would unbalance his SS and force people to just 4 all day and nothing else. :/

I guess we'll just have to see the new star chart if they're going to properly balance 4 frames.

That's true, then maybe giving player the control is enough. I'm just not sold on the current blade storm augment. The melee combo is really not my thing to be honest. It's way too short to actually be useful and depends on how many enemies there are. I wish blade storm augment gets some change.

[Wolfdoggie]

What I'd really like to know with Ash Prime is how come his butt has handlebars? :o Wonder if they're going to rework one of his skills to allow others to ride him?

[(XBOX)Brennon Cook]

That's true, then maybe giving player the control is enough. I'm just not sold on the current blade storm augment. The melee combo is really not my thing to be honest. It's way too short to actually be useful and depends on how many enemies there are. I wish blade storm augment gets some change.

Augments aren't permanent fixes. Frames need buffs, not augments. Augments are just DE being lazy tbh.

[(XBOX)Brennon Cook]

What I'd really like to know with Ash Prime is how come his butt has handlebars? :o Wonder if they're going to rework one of his skills to allow others to ride him?

It's so we can drag Loki's back to the liset after getting hit in the crossfire. We just tell them to hold on.

[Ashnal]

That doesn't matter. Armour barely scales, while health does. So again, it doesn't do much for how long it takes to kill. The slash procs take forever and you'll die before they do if you plan on waiting for them to die from slash damage, lol.

Why would I need armour ignore when I'm running a x4 corrosive projection, viral Dread build? So, my dread is still better, kills faster, and doesn't have a stupidly long duration to cast.

Have you ever been caught in a BladeStorm glitch in a raid? GG to you.

"Armor barely scales"

 

Actually, armor scales linearly along with health as enemy levels rise. This leads to an exponential growth in enemy Effective HP. Enemies become ridiculously tanky once they're high enough level due to armor.

 

That is WHY Corrosive Projection is so good. It's also WHY Bladestorm is so good if you don;t have  4x Corrosive Projection. You can't always have 4x CP, and when you can't, Bladestorm can keep killing while other nuking abilities fall short. It's of little use if you've always got 4x CP though..

[(XBOX)Brennon Cook]

"Armor barely scales"

Actually, armor scales linearly along with health as enemy levels rise. This leads to an exponential growth in enemy Effective HP. Enemies become ridiculously tanky once they're high enough level due to armor.

That is WHY Corrosive Projection is so good. It's also WHY Bladestorm is so good if you don;t have 4x Corrosive Projection. You can't always have 4x CP, and when you can't, Bladestorm can keep killing while other nuking abilities fall short. It's of little use if you've always got 4x CP though..

Which is why BS isn't as valuable to me. This entire post is nothing but opinions, no one has posted a fact unless it was a DPS calculator.

It's also sort of why in the back of my head, have wanted Ash's BS to go back to slash damage, so it gets better with x4 corrosive projections.

In my experience I find health to be the bigger number than armour, but armour adds to that total health pool.

Again, why I say that Ash is sort of a bad damage dealer, because you can simply use Banshee to get better squad damage, and it won't annoy your squad members either. Currently, BS'd targets cannot take outside damage, effectively making it so only Ash can do that x damage, but in the end a squad of 3 or 4 can burst him down faster.

Tested against a level 95 gunner: my Vectis Prime was able to kill two Eximus's faster than a BS could with MY endgame Ash build that has 45% power strength. Of course you could go big with 200% power strength but that's extremely stupid to do in my opinion as smoke screen provides Ash with some decent and valuable utility.

This would all change if allies could shoot frenzied targets, for sure.

-This is what happens when people provide me with practical questions, I'll put the effort into providing practical answers. But if someone is going to tell me something is good because it does X DPS then I'm not going to take you seriously.

Edit: note that also that test up above was with no corrosive projections, so my OWN damage output would have significantly increased if I had x4 and 3 extra squad mates -especially with a Nova and Banshee- while Ash's damage would stay stagnant. You see my point?

Edited July 13, 2015 by (XB1)Spartan Cook

[(PSN)inuyasha279]

Would someone tell me how I'm not playing Ash right?

Redirection, Vitality, Rage, Primed Continuity, Primed Flow, Constitution, Intensify, Streamline.

I guess I'm bad so someone inform me how to play Ash right. Like the true DPS frame he is.

your building for duration and defense. If your doing duration most of your time should be spent invisible. Which means you won't get hit as much and you shouldn't need defense mods. If you were doing pure power strength it would make more sense.

[(XBOX)Brennon Cook]

your building for duration and defense. If your doing duration most of your time should be spent invisible. Which means you won't get hit as much and you shouldn't need defense mods. If you were doing pure power strength it would make more sense.

But my build is to make use of all of Ash's abilities. I don't like spamming a single ability over and over. It's boring.

So while that's your opinion, are you suggesting my build is wrong? OP straight up told me I was stupid for not maxing power strength.

[Wolfdoggie]

I'm using Energy Siphon/Corrosive Projection, Vitality, Trans Fort, Primed Cont, Stretch, Intensify, Rage, Fleeting Meow, and Streamline; all maxed. I'm no MLG pro but feels pretty OP to me. All 4 skills are useful and do tons of deepz. Even his Teleport is useful for instant full heal from fast Life Strike finisher.

Edited July 13, 2015 by Wolfdoge

[Chub_N_Tuck]

But my build is to make use of all of Ash's abilities. I don't like spamming a single ability over and over. It's boring.

So while that's your opinion, are you suggesting my build is wrong? OP straight up told me I was stupid for not maxing power strength.

As I posted my build before, I use all my abilities. Yours isn't really using shurikens to its potentials, as that augment is really good to use. You should kinda learn to agree with things, since if you think about it, your build is pretty weak :(

[Naftal]

I'd really like if they changed 'Crappy Invisibility' to a 'Smoke Screen' ability.

 

Also make BS interactive somehow. Watching cinematics is boring.

[(PSN)inuyasha279]

But my build is to make use of all of Ash's abilities. I don't like spamming a single ability over and over. It's boring.

So while that's your opinion, are you suggesting my build is wrong? OP straight up told me I was stupid for not maxing power strength.

You can still use all his abilities while invisible. I'm just saying that he is safe for the most part on a duration build just like Loki.

[WernerShadow]

9 Pages of "I don't know how to play Ash" later...

Actully this has lead to a discovery that Ash has synergy with team mates that could make him a frame people ask for

[WernerShadow]

It's still fun to share ideas, which the OP of this very thread is against. Fun.

I am against a rework a few tweaks would be welcome but not the excal treatment. I started this thread for all the primarily Ash players as people are calling for a rework now only because he got primed while others of us have always liked him and now people who never play him think they know better

[WernerShadow]

His augment on blade storm should be like that. Give control to the player, and when blade storm is in process, give the original body of ash invisibility and +100% slash proc

This idea i could live with if they made the duration long enough to melee enemys

[Teqnologyque]

I feel like I'm still just learning to play Ash (His non-prime design just did not do it for me, he was boring to play...) but I'm starting to discover new strategies and synergies. 

 

Teleport to a group of enemies that has a team-mate locked down, let them get the finisher kill, and then stun the group with Smoke Bomb an just got at it, Bladestorm to clear an area and then revive a team-mate, use Shuriken while reloading to keep the pressure on.

 

All of his abilities have their uses, in my opinion, but I will agree; Maybe not maximized power strength, but it should be a focus to keep in mind...

[PhiZero]

Ash's abilities are fine, he just needs some quality of life changes to his current abilities. Shuriken works fine with armor reduction on hit, Smokescreen does wonders despite its short duration due to its AoE stun on cast, Teleport functions as advertised and then some with Natural Talent while opening targets to finishers, and Bladestorm functions as advertised for clearing rooms. I've been having a lot of issues targeting with Shuriken, as occasionally when there is a enemy behind me they will chose to track them when I'm aiming at a lancer ahead of me...which wouldn't be bad, if it didn't miss the one behind me completely. Teleport registers targets as "invalid" due to elevation or cover, which makes enemies on ramps and behind specific types of cover impossible to reach through teleportation. Then there is the Bladestorm camera which freaks out most of the time when sliding to speed up the animation speed, as it will occassionaly break back into standard veiw with Ash standing around as the slide ends; but, I would rather see the slide bug patched out and allow the Bladestorm animation to scale off Natural Talent.

 

I'm not against a complete rework, as the recent Xcalibur rework preserved the essense of the kit while bringing him in line to modern Warframe mechanics; which, wouldn't be half bad if Ash can be preserved and improved. Though in all honesty, Ash is perfect as long as DE can pass on some utility fixes to his abilities, as there is nothing more infuriating than seeing a Grineer Napalm on a ramp when you're running corrosive weapons, and you can't open him up to a OHKO finisher without eating a fireball while jump kicking him.

Edited July 13, 2015 by SagamiYusuke

[(XBOX)Brennon Cook]

As I posted my build before, I use all my abilities. Yours isn't really using shurikens to its potentials, as that augment is really good to use. You should kinda learn to agree with things, since if you think about it, your build is pretty weak :(

My build is weak how? It's for skilled survivability. I rely on all my skills to survive, not just SS, not just BS. I only ever solo T4 Survivals with this, of course just spamming 4 would be more efficient but I'm tired of doing that.

I realize my build is terrible, it's supposed to be, it's a challenge every time I use it, which is sort of my appeal with Ash.

I've had better builds, I HAVE better builds, but like I said, I like keeping Ash to his current theme, and melee the crap out of things and let the:

Rage < Teleport < Lifestrike combo wreck face.

Seriously. Try my build in a T4 Survival with a high damage melee weapon. You may like it.

Edited July 13, 2015 by (XB1)Spartan Cook