Leave Ash And His Ability's Alone He Does Not Need Your Help

[SicSlaver]

No, he is buggy and need rework.

Whoever said he is fine is probably not a real ash lover.

Any frame got rework is definitely a lot stronger except Mesa that I hope to be nerfed.

Mesa doesn't really need a nerf. Her 4th ability doesn't scale well and nullifiers ruin them. She does make missions below 40 really boring, though. And her 4th ability is really boring as well. Her 4th is also a crutch and people who use her have become really terrible at this game.

 

Honestly she does need changes, but not a nerf.

Edited July 14, 2015 by SicSlaver

[.ERO.]

Ash's abilities are early beta buggy garbage.

[---ExcaliburPrime---]

I just want those wrist blades as a melee weapon.

[SicSlaver]

I just want those wrist blades as a melee weapon.

They're exclusive to Ash, like the Regulators are to Mesa. I wish they had a name though. I would call them Ash's "Dirty Little Secret".

Edited July 14, 2015 by SicSlaver

[StinkyPygmy]

Is that a fact? Because about 80% of the players I used to play with consistently went to high waves of enemies. So why do I care if the people I don't play with don't? And I never said you mentioned anything about power strength, I was making a metaphor, it's a shame you couldn't piece that together.

Well no wonder I couldn't piece that together, because thats not what a metaphor is. All you did was say I said something that I in fact, did not say.

Ok, you are missing the point. Lvl 90 mobs is exactly what most players do not face on a regular basis if ever. 

Reaching level 90 mobs in survival would require around 1 hour and 20ish minutes. While most people tend to bounce at around the lvl 70ish mark at the latest.

What is considered high end content by DE and a majority of the player base tend to be around the 30-50 mark, with trials being an exception, as they are more of an "endgame" exception. But for the sake of argument as trials are relatively new, I'll include mobs up to 70 in that.

 

The point is you are using examples that fall well beyond what pretty much any frame with dmg abilities can handle. Ash is not alone. The reason is simple, DE doesn't balance the game for level 90 mobs by their own admission. Its a product of endless scaling that is there if you can, and feel like taking it on.

Hek, they barely balance it for trials in terms of dmg abilities. Its still only viable because CC is king when the dmg limit ceiling is hit.

 

To reiterate: The examples you used are neither relevant to a majority of the player base nor relevant to the realms within DE balances the game.

Ergo, not fit to use as examples as to why you think ash is trash. Not to mention the same examples could be used against every single frame with dmg abilities. They ALL fall off before that point.

 

I can't think of any other way to explain it. If this doesn't make sense then I'll leave it at that.

Edited July 14, 2015 by StinkyPygmy

[SuperWeedy-EGT-]

I think the problem is that in the end unlike Frost or nova or trinity Ash does not help bad players play better by keeping them alive so players dont like him Mesa in this regard is no better as her CC is highly unreliable because it shifts unexpectedly from 1 person to the next.Having played mesa quite a bit ive sern if enemys get to powerful she does not always kill them fast enough eather and your bad team mates die does that make her bad no but people hating getting downed. That all being said like i now discovered there might be more synergy between all the frames than we all realise but we have gotten stuck in a pattern and reduse to explore new options in terms of team work

I think Ash does just that. Press 4 to become invincible and watch a cutscene of enemies being killed with no aiming or dodging required.

Almost all frames bring some power that benifits the team + being able to kill just as fast as Ash with only their guns.  Ash has no globe, cc, buff or debuff and kills relatively slowly with bladestorm. Invisible would be ok but the short range makes it almost useless in a battle, you are far better off just relying on shade. If he actually helps people kill more im fine with an Ash on my team though. Better than a Nova that doesnt use Mprime or shoot much.

[(XBOX)Brennon Cook]

 

Again, kind of silly for you to try to argue using the prime numbers, when you claim to have been using your build for so much longer than the prime version was around. Seems like a dishonest and misleading argument to make.

Could you do me a favour and quote me on that? Because I only started using a redirection with the increase in his base shields. Before I used quick thinking, but I dislike the efficiency it gives your for health to energy without high armour.

[Tesseract7777]

Could you do me a favour and quote me on that? Because I only started using a redirection with the increase in his base shields. Before I used quick thinking, but I dislike the efficiency it gives your for health to energy without high armour.

 

No offense but I don't need to quote you on that, considering you were talking to everyone in the thread that you've been playing Ash a long time, and the way you talked about it, your current build was one you had used and tested for awhile. Everyone got this impression as far as I can tell. If you just now started using it for Ash Prime, why didn't you say so? 

 

Sure, you didn't explicitly state whether you had recently started using that build or not, but considering your argument was your experience, it's reasonable people would get the impression that was your chosen build for a while now. 

 

Also you insulted me earlier for not using Redirection on my Ash earlier, and did not ask or know whether I had the prime yet or not (I do not have the money, and I have not yet had the time to farm all the parts to make my beloved Ash Prime). You also talked earlier about how Redirection was so important for Ash, but never once mentioned you had only started doing this because of Ash Prime's higher shields, nor did you specify when making those blanket statements that you don't think it applies to regular Ash. 

[WernerShadow]

It's not about perfection. It's about balancing the given utilities we have to the current end game content. Unless they specifically say they're not doing that then I expect frames like Ash and Hydroid to be viable in the end game.

Ash is viable he does not die all the time the rest do why does every frame need to be a support frame and keep the rest alive

[WernerShadow]

I think Ash does just that. Press 4 to become invincible and watch a cutscene of enemies being killed with no aiming or dodging required.

Almost all frames bring some power that benifits the team + being able to kill just as fast as Ash with only their guns. Ash has no globe, cc, buff or debuff and kills relatively slowly with bladestorm. Invisible would be ok but the short range makes it almost useless in a battle, you are far better off just relying on shade. If he actually helps people kill more im fine with an Ash on my team though. Better than a Nova that doesnt use Mprime or shoot much.

I agree Ash already helps No mobs means you dont need any CC or buffs besides 1 CC frame should be more than enough why cant i be the efficient killer i like being the best or worst for me in this threat is that people state if he makes only clones and stays on the ground him self he now for some reason has CC? Whats the diffrence Edited July 14, 2015 by WernerShadow

[CapnFusterCluck]

Ash is viable he does not die all the time the rest do why does every frame need to be a support frame and keep the rest alive

It's also important to note that this is somewhat of a team-oriented game. You can't call yourself a team-player or be part of a team in general if you don't want any part of them (basically reviving them). 

 

But as a note to those arguing about Ash's scaling with higher level enemies: Never will you (and shouldn't be) fighting with 40+ enemies. The scaling just goes up the wall for that S#&$, and basically nothing works unless you're playing for fun or everything is a coordinated effort. Even frames like God Nova and Shoot-em-Up Mesa will fall off eventually at some point. Ash is no different; he will scale off, and if you're looking at his abilities from a Raid or a 30+ minute T4 Survival, Defense, whatever, you're doing it entirely wrong. No frame is meant to go beyond that point.

 

I think we the increase in armor and shields, he allows for flexibility. Now he's not the "stack health" Frame anymore. You can build Armor on him, you can build both Redirection + Vitality or Vigor + Vitality. I'm all for tankiness, but I like actually like running Redirection purely for the fact it's a regenerating health bar. But each to their own, I suppose.

 

Edit: Raids are still in beta themselves. Yes. I said it.

Edited July 14, 2015 by CapnFusterCluck

[WernerShadow]

It's also important to note that this is somewhat of a team-oriented game. You can't call yourself a team-player or be part of a team in general if you don't want any part of them (basically reviving them). 

Never said i don't revive my team nor did i say i don't want any part of them. My point is simply that every frame in this game does not need to be a copy of trinity to be an asset. I get the idea the problem is not the frames but the players who just want to stand around shooting target practice. "Please Mr. Grineer don't shoot me i don't know what i am doing here" This sentence sums up most of the people commenting that Ash is junk or needs a rework.Their play style seems to be that they want frames that make the enemy worth nothing more than dummy's standing around holding their faces. because heaven forbid you actually have to fight something that shoots back 

[Gunmetall]

I have a question to you all if you dont like Ash being a raw killer and only like warframes that make the game about as intresting as Tetris then why are you even playing this game? Do you Play CS:GO and at the start of a game type "please mnr terrorist player dont shoot me just stand still" ? No? Then why do you feel a need to play this shooter for 40 min just shooting at targets while you could be having a adrenalin rushing teeth grinding fight for 40 min instead

Me personaly like Ash to be raw killer, what i dont like, is that with all his "bad ! killer stuff" he outperformed by Loki with Tonkor

 

 

Any type of mission contains 4 slots for players, which means originaly game made for a party to play, not for solo,and i doubt that DE think of  Ash as a solo warframe,otherwise, they would not create such augments for Ex and Mirage,that would make them perfect combo with Ash

 

Also if you claim that Loki is better for a party play, then guess what, he is actually better for solo game too , simply because he can run 1 h 10 min +- 10\15 min of t4 survival easily, and stop there only because his weapon reaches it's own limit and start killing too slow to get oxygen.That is why people ask for rework,actually,Ash just can't compete with same class warframe.

Ash will never perform such results in solo,untill he get some of his abilities reworked,because DE never gonna buff him as he is now, and if slight rework is a way to go,then why not give him some utility for the team?

 

Before we all ask for reworks.. let's keep in mind no one frame is perfect. And that should be the case. If not.. everyone will be aiming to use that one frame and one frame only.

No one is perfect indeed, but the sad thing is that some are much closer to perfect then others. Again Loki example, you can go any type of build without you perma stealth get rekt,on the other hand,when you start to build an Ash,it doesnt matter which way you chose, you start to get problems, either with duration,radius or with the ability cost, and in the end you wont get same results.

As a solution i ask for DE to change 2 things

.First: Smoke Screen base duration increased by 3-4 seconds.

Second: power duration has no negative effect on Smoke Screen ability.

hey can trade\replace it for 100% crit chance effect while you are inside, since Smoke Screen duration is too low for that crit chance to perform well.Just these changes will easily push Ash to 1+ hour t4 survival mark

Edited July 14, 2015 by [DE]Danielle
Removed hidden post

[WernerShadow]

Me personaly like Ash to be raw killer, what i dont like, is that with all his "bad ! killer stuff" he outperformed by Loki with Tonkor

Any type of mission contains 4 slots for players, which means originaly game made for a party to play, not for solo,and i doubt that DE think of Ash as a solo warframe,otherwise, they would not create such augments for Ex and Mirage,that would make them perfect combo with Ash

Also if you claim that Loki is better for a party play, then guess what, he is actually better for solo game too , simply because he can run 1 h 10 min +- 10\15 min of t4 survival easily, and stop there only because his weapon reaches it's own limit and start killing too slow to get oxygen.That is why people ask for rework,actually,Ash just can't compete with same class warframe.

Ash will never perform such results in solo,untill he get some of his abilities reworked,because DE never gonna buff him as he is now, and if slight rework is a way to go,then why not give him some utility for the team?

No one is perfect indeed, but the sad thing is that some are much closer to perfect then others. Again Loki example, you can go any type of build without you perma stealth get rekt,on the other hand,when you start to build an Ash,it doesnt matter which way you chose, you start to get problems, either with duration,radius or with the ability cost, and in the end you wont get same results.

As a solution i ask for DE to change 2 things

.First: Smoke Screen base duration increased by 3-4 seconds.

Second: power duration has no negative effect on Smoke Screen ability.

hey can trade\replace it for 100% crit chance effect while you are inside, since Smoke Screen duration is too low for that crit chance to perform well.Just these changes will easily push Ash to 1+ hour t4 survival mark

Lets take a look at the diffrence shall we?

First of all Loki is a ninja and plays like one a loki player considers an escape from a fight a victory in its self.

Ash is an Assassin i consider it a victory if nothing is left standing after i get to the other door of the room.

Loki must be in perma stealth to mean anything at all he cant take a hit for a dam.

Ash can get away with using all his abilitys and never needing to be perma stealth to do it.

Comparing a loki to an Ash is like comparing Rhino and Valkyr they have similar functions in a team but are completly diffrent play styles.

[(PSN)JohnMboya]

For me Ash is fine for casual players (which is most people on Warframe) and becomes troublesome for those who frequent high end game. 

 

If I was to change Ash I would

 

Minor changes:

 

Smokescreen - Only minor change. The duration is fine and we are not meant to be Loki 2.0. As WernerShadow suggested we are assassins, so for the change, I would increase the range of the stun (not too big) and enemies who are stunned take 20-30% extra damage from all sources, stun lasts ~ 3 seconds and buff 6secs. Everything else remains the same. 

 

Teleport - Leave as is. I hear people talk about free teleport but I think its good as it is. 

 

Bigger changes:

 

If Ash only has a primary/secondary and Melee weapon equiped, Bladestorm and Shuriken gain some buffs depending on what is being used. If the player is holding a primary, bladestorm gains the utility stats of the melee weapon equiped e.g. procs and crit chance/damage (alternatively, deal % of of additional melee weapon damage as Slash) and when Ash switches to Melee stance only, Shuriken gains primary/secondary weapon utility stats (alternatively, deal % of additional weapon damage as Slash)

 

 

Shuriken - % chance of punch through (alternatively % chance to hit multiple enemies 3 max per shuriken) + Primary/secondary weapon utility if only two weapons are equiped and while in Melee stance. 

 

Bladestorm - Increase team armour by %  + melee weapon utility while primary/secondary is equipped. 

Edited July 14, 2015 by (PS4)JohnMboya

[WernerShadow]

For me Ash is fine for casual players (which is most people on Warframe) and becomes troublesome for those who frequent high end game. 

 

If I was to change Ash I would

 

Minor changes:

 

Smokescreen - Only minor change. The duration is fine and we are not meant to be Loki 2.0. As WernerShadow suggested we are assassins, so for the change, I would increase the range of the stun (not too big) and enemies who are stunned take 20-30% extra damage from all sources, stun lasts ~ 3 seconds and buff 6secs. Everything else remains the same. 

 

Teleport - Leave as is. I hear people talk about free teleport but I think its good as it is. 

 

Bigger changes:

 

If Ash only has a primary/secondary and Melee weapon equiped, Bladestorm and Shuriken gain some buffs depending on what is being used. If the player is holding a primary, bladestorm gains the utility stats of the melee weapon equiped e.g. procs and crit chance/damage (alternatively, deal % of of additional melee weapon damage as Slash) and when Ash switches to Melee stance only, Shuriken gains primary/secondary weapon utility stats (alternatively, deal % of additional weapon damage as Slash)

 

 

Shuriken - % chance of punch through (alternatively % chance to hit multiple enemies 3 max per shuriken) + Primary/secondary weapon utility if only two weapons are equiped and while in Melee stance. 

 

Bladestorm - Increase team armour by %  + melee weapon utility while primary/secondary is equipped. 

Best idea i have seen so far i like this idea means i get to keep my skills and help the rest while not having to change my play style or lose that Assassin feel

[(PSN)inuyasha279]

It's also important to note that this is somewhat of a team-oriented game. You can't call yourself a team-player or be part of a team in general if you don't want any part of them (basically reviving them).

But as a note to those arguing about Ash's scaling with higher level enemies: Never will you (and shouldn't be) fighting with 40+ enemies. The scaling just goes up the wall for that S#&$, and basically nothing works unless you're playing for fun or everything is a coordinated effort. Even frames like God Nova and Shoot-em-Up Mesa will fall off eventually at some point. Ash is no different; he will scale off, and if you're looking at his abilities from a Raid or a 30+ minute T4 Survival, Defense, whatever, you're doing it entirely wrong. No frame is meant to go beyond that point.

I think we the increase in armor and shields, he allows for flexibility. Now he's not the "stack health" Frame anymore. You can build Armor on him, you can build both Redirection + Vitality or Vigor + Vitality. I'm all for tankiness, but I like actually like running Redirection purely for the fact it's a regenerating health bar. But each to their own, I suppose.

Edit: Raids are still in beta themselves. Yes. I said it.

40+ enemies... most go to 70. (About 40 mins in t3/t4 survival or a raid) Those are also what the game is balanced around. That's not a point where your not supposed to go. That's the point DE wants you to stop, it's what we are supposed to be comparing our frames to. Ash is just good with scaling since he goes through armor (which is important since unlike health armor scales infinitely) and you can increase it's damage with melee. And if you want team utility go use his augs. Shuriken can take armor and smokescreen cloaks the team with him.

And bladestorm works with Excalibur's radial blind so he does do team synergy.

And Ash easily avoids damage. Since his ultimate and smokescreen can proc Arcane trickery. He's like Loki you don't need to focus on defense as much with him.

Edited July 14, 2015 by (PS4)inuyasha279

[SoullessEgo]

All I would like to make ash better, is to change teleport to a "blink" like ability. and give us an orange jump suite, "believe it".

[aoguro]

So I'm garbage because I don't run a Bladestorm build and just spam 4 all day? Damn, dude. I beat I'm worthless to society for owning a console too. Thanks bro.

 

there are not many balanced frames with their abilities in the whole game, this frame lacks on this, that frame lacks on that

 

its a game ... and DE decide what to do ... im out of this discussions, i have things in real life to do and there comes always the day where somebody can be get simply ... BORED about pixels and the discussions about

 

still waiting for U 17 ... and yes, im a bit tired of continous work on development of a game, i want a final stage and a storyline to play instead of a continous farming excess ...

 

im a bit tired of this all ,-)

Edited July 14, 2015 by Khampa

[S0V3REiGN]

From what I am reading here you guys don't want an Ash rework, you want the damn frame deleted and replaced with a new one that just happens to look like Ash. Honestly i like Ash the way he is.

[Nira]

 

Finally, some sensible suggestions.

[Hypernaut1]

From what I am reading here you guys don't want an Ash rework, you want the damn frame deleted and replaced with a new one that just happens to look like Ash. Honestly i like Ash the way he is.

Exactly. As a new player, it was clear to me that the purpose of Ash was to just murder things. He read to me as a frame that was ALL about killing a target, not about team play, not about cc, not about reloading hidden. Just a straight up offensive assassin frame.

Why do people want him to become a support frame? Loki is the support version to ash.

His trait is to NOT HAVE support abilities, unless you want to augment it. Any support abilities ash gains should be through augments. It totally changes his play style.

[-CM-Valen]

It's not about perfection. It's about balancing the given utilities we have to the current end game content. Unless they specifically say they're not doing that then I expect frames like Ash and Hydroid to be viable in the end game.

Before you get personal and comment that all decent intellectuals NEED to have that defensive mod for END GAME content; or ash needs a rework on his skills...

It's all individual preference, play style.

Simply put:

The gist about this game.. You have a warframe. It has its own set of unique abilities, strengths and flaws. You have a wide selection of mods.. mod the frame to suit your playstyle and try to make it viable and powerful for all the missions you undertake.

There are a wide array of weaponry. Taking different weapons to different missions will complement your chosen frame. There are too many combinations.. too many factors which makes this game unique and interesting.

You CAN put defensive mods.. throw in Armored agility even.. and try to make Ash a tank melee. But is that what he does best? Or you can try to understand your frame's strength, utilise your limited slots for mods and bring out the potential in him.

All these being said, everything still depend on your keyboard skills. Your team, your situation awareness, etc.

All being said, let me bring you back to the discussion, Why, are we asking for reworks. I'm sure there are players using the same Ash whom have done perfectly fine with end game content. Why are we asking for reworks when we are facing challenges in game? Why are we asking the DE'S to play our game, or make our game less challenging to play?

And by the way, end game content. It differs individually. To one it might be he wants to earn a milestone 50k plats from farming void missions and trading, to another it may be getting MR19 and having All weapons, and one may want to survive 2 hours on T4 survival.

I do agree some frames are not as well done as others. But Ash, is already a very well thought out frame.

Let's just play the game, instead of complaining how bad this frame is and DE should do this.. do that..

Before Ash Prime was introduced, not many uttered a single word. Now that many people comes into contact with him, again many ask for reworks. Understand the frame. Understand your game. Every frame is unique. Every player is unique.

Think about it.

[enJohneering]

I have been playing Ash nearly a year now and have generally noted little to no interest in playing him among advanced players, particularly in teams. This isn't to say that nobody liked him, but he was not particularly useful to a team that wants to take on some of the more difficult content in the game. As one might expect of a special forces type of small combat cell, tenno often find it more useful in tough situations to control the field with utility abilities and then use our fantastic weapons to clear out the mobs.

Now anyone who has been on a team with a Mesa can tell you that a really good damage dealer is useful to keep rooms clear and speed through defense missions, but she can do a much better job than Ash in many situations since the ability to move in and out of her ultimate is kept with the player. In a similar way, the reason there has been such a positive reaction to Excal rework (encouraging people to call for a rework of their favorite frame) is because using his abilities, which include both damage and CC, most of the control is left with the player. The player can decide what dies, when and how. Even more importantly, you always maintain control over your position, which is vital in rooms covered in nullies and bombastards. Lately I have been running an Ash-Excal duo where we both focus a bit more on power range and less on power str taking advantage of the finisher damage boost with Radiant Finish to effectively mitigate damage while ending mob's lives. This focus allows a more moderate duration build where SS and it's augment become viable and give the team a bit of utility. I will admit I am a fan of stealth gameplay and Loki, but I don't play Ash as a surrogate to Loki P, I play him because I love killing things. I'll add my personal build below,

Energy Siphon / Corrosive Proj

Vitality, Rage, Constitution, Continuity, Streamline, Stretch, Intensify, Smoke Shadow

This is not a pure bladestorm build with lots of power strength. I have that build, it gets old after a while of endless chained cutscenes. Even as much as a fan of the cool (if buggy as hell) bladestorm cut-scene as I am, I would prefer more control over my avatar. I can't tell you the number of times BS decided to drop me down next to a nullifier at the wrong moment and left me scrambling to stay alive, particularly on the non-prime Ash with only 65 armor. With a good life-strike, rage, QT build, yes nearly any frame can stay alive, but that isn't the most fun way to play and is terrible for team utility. The SS Aug requires insane coordination with teammates who themselves are trying to move and avoid getting pinned down. Perhaps this is nice for camping gameplay, but do any of us really want to promote that long-term?

No, Ash is designed to be an excellent killer, but it would be nice to be able to control his lethal weapons more effectively. I would rather not feel called to add more duration on a DPS frame so that I can get around the field without taking a life-threatening level of damage. Perhaps I'm not the most skilled player, I won't argue with that, but I'd rather have some more utility and control on one of the coolest frames in the game.

I have this idea that Ash seems to be about performing finishing moves effectively as an assassin. So, I'll try to highlight that in my ideas. The initialized lines are a suggestion for improvement or rework of the ability. These are NOT meant to all be implemented at once, but rather offer a bucket of ideas to draw from for the best possible Ash update.

So Let's Talk Ideas

Shuriken:

The first ability is terrible because of inadequate pathing (could be partially fixed with high punch-through) and if it had any/all of life-strike/armor-removal/stun it could be useful. If you wanted to keep the theme, it could blind targets while inducing a slash proc and open them to finishers.

Smoke Screen:

SS is not a fantastic stealth ability, specifically compared to Loki's stealth, and that's ok.

Smoke cloud persists during duration

For some amount of time the smoke cloud could grant some sort of effect on players/mobs/area. My favorite idea is that it would grant all teammates invisibility while in the cloud (not sure how hard that is to code). Or it could have the effect of reducing enemy accuracy inside the cloud. It could give teammates increased melee damage. I'm not that creative with passives, but there are plenty of good ones. Put your own in here.

Stealth in SS gives ability to perform finishers or grant slash proc

I'm not just talking about sneaking up behind un-alerted enemies. Either give all finisher triggers to all melee attacks, or perhaps all damage a 100% slash proc.

Teleport:

It's a cheap ability, it can help move you around. It would be nice it it worked with a wider hitbox on targets.

Bladestorm:

Ash's clones go and kill stuff while you keep control over your avatar

I've seen several people agree with the idea that his copies go around and kill things while Ash remains in your control. However, this sounds too much of a copy of Ember's World on Fire. Other than that even it it CCs it's not a very engaging ability.

Targeted BS

Just unsheathing his blades and going invulnerable is already Valkir's thing and isn't like ash at all. However, I did think we all learned one thing from exalted blade, having an ultimate buff and synergize with other utility skills is a fun way to play. I'd love to have ash unsheathe his blades and then be able to use his third ability for free which would automatically perform the finisher (similar to how bladestorm works now, just with player control). To make up for the loss of killing speed, he could perform a smoke screen at each teleport with 30% range and duration. If this ultimate proved to challenging to perform, target selection could be in a cone or perhaps just auto select the nearest enemy. I would keep it targeted though, so that player skill and speed will limit it's effectiveness as it should. Either way, it would be a hell of a lot of fun and smoke dropped around the room would be great utility with the main focus still being on damage.

In conclusion:

I like these suggestions because they focus on keeping Ash's roll as an assassin priority target finisher while enhancing the player's ability to actually select priority targets. The buffs to smoke give him some of the utility teams and team players always desire without turning him into a support frame.

These are only my ideas, and far from perfect, but I hope it helps get people on the path of thinking about his strengths and weaknesses as a whole, and what his roll in a cell (the main focus of this MMO game) should be.

Edited July 15, 2015 by JoeLorodeath

[WernerShadow]

Before you get personal and comment that all decent intellectuals NEED to have that defensive mod for END GAME content; or ash needs a rework on his skills...

It's all individual preference, play style.

Simply put:

The gist about this game.. You have a warframe. It has its own set of unique abilities, strengths and flaws. You have a wide selection of mods.. mod the frame to suit your playstyle and try to make it viable and powerful for all the missions you undertake.

There are a wide array of weaponry. Taking different weapons to different missions will complement your chosen frame. There are too many combinations.. too many factors which makes this game unique and interesting.

You CAN put defensive mods.. throw in Armored agility even.. and try to make Ash a tank melee. But is that what he does best? Or you can try to understand your frame's strength, utilise your limited slots for mods and bring out the potential in him.

All these being said, everything still depend on your keyboard skills. Your team, your situation awareness, etc.

All being said, let me bring you back to the discussion, Why, are we asking for reworks. I'm sure there are players using the same Ash whom have done perfectly fine with end game content. Why are we asking for reworks when we are facing challenges in game? Why are we asking the DE'S to play our game, or make our game less challenging to play?

And by the way, end game content. It differs individually. To one it might be he wants to earn a milestone 50k plats from farming void missions and trading, to another it may be getting MR19 and having All weapons, and one may want to survive 2 hours on T4 survival.

I do agree some frames are not as well done as others. But Ash, is already a very well thought out frame.

Let's just play the game, instead of complaining how bad this frame is and DE should do this.. do that..

Before Ash Prime was introduced, not many uttered a single word. Now that many people comes into contact with him, again many ask for reworks. Understand the frame. Understand your game. Every frame is unique. Every player is unique.

Think about it.

Thank you! Could not have said it any better