New Warframe: Equinox (U17 Megathread Topic)

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Shield restore is actually the idea I'm most in favor of. It obviously works as a good parallel to Maim, it's a form of durability that's separate from armor and flat damage reduction, and is reason enough to keep Mend toggled on. I would, however, suggest that instead of a stun maybe just do a burst shield restore on activation, again, to mirror Maim. As much as it would be nice to have more CC in the night form, a stun doesn't thematically fit an ability called "Mend."

[Leuca]

I've been fiddling with Equinox while I rank her up to 30, and there seem to be a few key problems.

 

Her Metamorphosis doesn't really do all that much. There isn't a whole lot for it to scale off of with power strength from a base perspective, and being locked out of other abilities during the transformation warrants a slight buff/effect while it takes place, perhaps direct damage reduction, or a different effect depending on which form you are about to enter. The fact that the buffs gained from it completely wear off after some time is also a bit disappointing, and doesn't really help to highlight how different her forms are supposed to be. I think these problems could be fixed with a two birds approach, by keeping the current buff+timer upon transforming, but also imbuing each form with enhanced base stats that match the buff, that way it doesn't scale too ridiculously with power strength, but isn't completely useless. It also provides players with the option to stay a bit longer in one form if they so choose, enhancing flexibility if a certain encounter calls for one form more so than the other.

Rest and Rage really has only one problem - abysmal range surrounding the initial target. Otherwise I think it's pretty solid.

Pacify and Provoke is an interesting skill, but this is where you really start to see the difference in efficacy between her Night and Day forms. Pacify immediately starts draining energy as soon as any enemy enters its range, regardless of whether or not it's actually attacking you. It's horridly less efficient in terms of energy cost compared to Provoke unless there are only one or two targets. Ideally I think it should have its effect altered so that instead of reducing the damage enemies deal by X%, it reduces damage allies take by X%, and have its drain affected by # of allies in range. This does a few things to the skill that I think are important to incorporate.

1. It emphasizes her role as an aura based, ally focused support frame, meaning that she amplifies damage or reduces it by being in contact with her allies more so than by running into enemies.

2. It balances her energy costs and gives a better framework for balancing numbers, since both abilities will function more similarly.

3. Both of the above will help her ability to scale better into end game.

I think there are some tweaks to Provoke that could be made to make it more worthwhile in comparison to similar abilities from other frames, but I think it's more important to work on her blatant weaknesses right now.

I think there are more than enough valid suggestions on how to fix her ultimate(s), so I'm going to withhold commentary on that for now.

 

[Fari]

I have gripes with a lot of the stat stuff for Equinox, especially for day form, but admittedly I haven't properly played around with a max rank one much, just an unranked one 3 times now. One issue that's major and unrelated to stats that might be better with ranks is the 4 though.

Equinox is largely based around swapping forms a fair amount, and yet the day 4 makes me feel trapped into one form. It only really stores damage super great if you're in it for quite a while, but if you swap.... bam, any stored stuff you had just.. vanishes? It doesn't even release the damage/heal as far as I've noticed, it's just gone. Same goes for running out of energy I think? Though, notably running into a nullifier does detonate it.

 

Same goes for night, though night requires less charging up to do a heal, more than anything it just makes it feel like keeping ult on at all is pointless unless you're already low on health. Having the ability to have it going as night, and swapping over to day when you need it would be nice. Either way, going from having a ton of damage stored up to having none, going through a fairly long cast animation, and needing to kill for more points to get the effect you want feels clunky, and promotes not changing your form at all.

 

I don't really see what the issue with keeping it between forms would even be, points are stored in the exact same way, with a nearly identical aoe area which I assume is identical barring visuals, with the exception of Night being horribly devoid of anything during channeling, which is also a major issue. I can understand your 3 being not continuous between the forms since there's a bit more variation, but not the 4. 

 

If anything, I guess it could stop channeling during your form swap, since that seems to be a "vulnerable do nothing" phase, which is also kind of obnoxious but whatever, but it shouldn't require another long cast time and recharging. You should be able to be in the form you want, without being punished too hard for it. Both forms are two sides of a coin, not completely unrelated.

 

Really hoping Equinox will get some touch ups and be decent, really love the concept, just feels kinda clunky in use, and more punishing in doing anything than rewarding, between 4 swapping resetting you and night 3 eating your energy even if you're not getting hit which would be a lot better reactionary like day 3.

[DelialFallen]

Even Ember can do 30 minutes T4 survival rather easily. I can do it an unranked frame and no abilities at all. It's only past 35 minutes that enemy scaling really starts to go crazy and the weaker warframes start to get huge problems.

 

I'm very impressed.  I'm certain that your claim is by no means an exaggeration.

[EchoesOfRain]

Any chance of Equinox getting ability augments soon?

[VentiGlondi]

Day form is missing channeling effects while using parkour maneuvers.

[EmptyDevil]

Posting this here since it is relevant.

 

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/503797-equinox-pacify-and-mend-buff-proposal/

[NanoVega]

Along with a lot of others, I'm looking at Equinox and just feeling disappointed.

I'd like to tell you all about extreme changes that should occur, but the fact of the matter is, that she's pretty much how the old Frost was, you have to build every thing you can, or sacrifice her other abilities.

Duration is a must for the second and for her first, while efficiency is important for all of them, especially her fourth, while strength is important for Maim's kill-stuff-ness, and range is needed for all of them as well.

What I'd at first suggest is that you calm down energy usage on her fourth and pacify's as well.

But that would just sort of cover up the problem, as there are many issues with the buffs coming off after 30 seconds. So now, I'm thinking that duration should be completely removed as a requirement for her, make all her abilities toggle and energy drain, this way we instantly have one less build requirement to worry about. And then, with the metamorphosis buffs, add them as a renewing passive that occurs mainly and changes when you activate metamorphosis, but reactivates every time you drop an ability. This way you can potentially stay in either form self-sustainably, or switch from one to another as originally planned.

[Sci_Ant]

Sooo apparently the last hotfix removed the cap on Equinox's Maim's accumulated damage? My friend said it was capped at 60k before but now she could see 140k on the counter.

 

Can anyone confirm this? I can't since mine is still cooking. :P

 

Funnily it doesn't say so in any of the Hotfix notes.

Edited August 6, 2015 by Sci_Ant

[PsiWarp]

Sooo apparently the last hotfix removed the cap on Equinox's Maim's accumulated damage? My friend said it was capped at 60k before but now she could see 140k on the counter.

 

Can anyone confirm this? I can't since mine is still cooking. :P

 

Funnily it doesn't say so in any of the Hotfix notes.

 

It wasn't capped at all, just that the counter won't visibly display pass 60k while the actual damage continues to accumulate.

[FelisImpurrator]

 

 

Right, it was just a rollover counter.

 

I almost wish that, instead of removing it, they had tweaked it so every so often - maybe every 10, 25k damage - it would roll over as before, keeping the previous stack but also refreshing the slash proc. Could have been an interesting compromise between having it constantly tick and having it proc once.

[Sci_Ant]

It wasn't capped at all, just that the counter won't visibly display pass 60k while the actual damage continues to accumulate.

 

Ah ok, thanks!

[Gavare21]

You need to nerf it to 2-3 sec sleep ability in Conclave. I'ts too OP.

[BlueOwlRest]

You need to nerf it to 2-3 sec sleep ability in Conclave. I'ts too OP.

 Hotfix 17.0.3:

• Duration increased of Equinox’s Rest in PvP.
• The first hit on a Target that is affected by Equinox’s Rest does no damage and wakes them up in PvP.
• The prompt to wake up a teammate affected by Rest will no longer show up on yourself in PvP.
• Increased the Wake Up animation speed from Rest in PvP.

2-3 secs, i can still kill you with soma prime. No damage and wake up speed increase, proves a challenge however.

[Erl-King]

Yet another Mend idea:

 

- Channeling effect grant stacking max health buff (without granting actual health) by 7.5 / 10 / 12.5 / 15 per second (affected by power) up to max 1,200 hp (not affected by power, like overshields cap).

- When Equinox or ally not affected by Mend channeling aura, max health buff degrate at 2-5max hp per second.

 

Example: 30lvl Equinox 300/300hp cast Mend, after 10 seconds she have 300/450hp, then she finish Mend and get healed up to her new 450/450hp. But after that she begin to lose 5max hp per second, so over 10 seconds without Mend she down to 400/400hp.

 

Reasoning:

1) It synergies with burst heal effect as channeling ability give room to apply excessive heal.

2) It fit as "mending" / "strengthening" theme as opposite of Maim.

3) It give Equinox unique support feature without stepping at other frames territory (I have not forgot about red Chroma, but his health buff is different).

4) It boost survivability without being overpowered.

5) It could have interesting combos with other frames' abilities (Trinity blessing, Chroma Vex armor, Nekros Despoil, Valkyr Hysteria and frames with Rage mod).

Edited August 6, 2015 by Erlk1ng

[Genji]

Mend needs extra abilities while active, Pacify needs to be stronger.

Rage needs to work like Sayrn's bubble thing & spread between enemies. Single targeting is meh.

[Ziegrif]

I killed a Simaris Target with Frosts Snow Globe in one shot.

I mean dang that thing now has a lot of potential dmg.

[DarthVerna]

First of all, this Warframe is really awesome, she became quickly one of my favourites. I really like being a jack of all trades, and this is what i was expecting since i started playing.

And now the feedback:

Metamorphosis - well, i really like the idea of the buff for each form, but let's face it, yeah you can switch between day and night to keep buffs up, but that would be such a waste! This is supposed to be a situational Warframe, and she should pay out when you are able to figure out which form is the best suited for that precise moment. I think that having to loose so much time for keeping those buff up isn't really worth it in reallyreally bad and unexpected situations (where equinox shines the most). I personnally ignore those buffs most of the time 'cause in 60+ min T4 survival solo you have no time (NOR energy) to do something if is not REALLY worth it. I anyway don't feel too much the need for some kind of buff, but anyway without a buff i feel like some good potential is wasted.

Rest/Rage - i have nothing to say against this two. I understand why so many people thinks that this abilities lacks somewere, and yeah the range is minimal, but maybe many players missed the point of this. Rest is NOT something that just CC a whole ship or even a planet, and is good how it is, the main use is on those heavy/eximus units! You just put them to rest, kill the others easy, then melee their asses. Or even better, rest 'em, then go day, 3,4, kill the light units, rage them and then release the ulti, nuked. Rage, well the focus of rage is exactly the same. As a mostly solo player there always is that unit with HUGE armor that annoy you, corrosive build? Oh, sweet a bombard is coming!!! Radiation? Yeeeeh, a heavy gunner has arrived! Just pop rage (i use a 175% power strength) and they'll melt pretty quickly.

Yes a range buff is more than welcome, but not needed IMO.

Pacify/Provoke - Pacify, well, with my build i can run hugging heavy gunner without too many problems, but yeah, never have Pacify active on infested runs, the'll burn all your energy too quickly. Provoke, nothing to say about this, just good how it is.

Quick fact for those who complains about Pacify: you are NOT forced to stay behind your rhino bro, a good way to use this is running in that huge group of enemies swinging your scindo (or whatever) while your teammates hunt them down with their guns! This way you mitigate enemies damage for all your team, and makes all of you bring a whole group down (nothe that this sinergize well with life strike 'cause even with 85% reduction you'll tale a lot of dmg).

As for buffs, mmh, a little rework on energy drain against large group of enemies would be welcome. Maybe something like the more enemies are inside the less energy per second each one of them will drain, that should increase power drain for each enemy inside the circle but not too much, so the skill keeps being much useful with few enemies arownd while loses much less utility the more enemies there are.

Mend/Maim - First of all, Maim, just perfect. Good CC, good efficiency, HUGE damage potential, and NOT another press 4 to blow planet (even if with a good team you can go blow an entire formorian fleet). DO NOT CHANGE THIS, no seriously, Maim is perfect an well balanced, no need for more range or dmg, that would be too much.

Now Mend. And here the problems. I don't like Mend, why? 'Cause if i, or my team, need health or i am lucky enough to be in night WITH Mend active, or i'll suck badly and someone will die. If in solo is much easier switch to melee and life strike your health up (rest+highdmgmelee+lifestrike is so much better in solo than Mend, there is just no reason to use Mend (except if you have not life strike, but in that case go farm or buy it! Is just a must in solo endgame)) while both in solo or in group health restores works muck better (i know they are expensive while Mend "free", but...).

Sooo, i highly approve a buff to Mend, for my playstyle and in my opinion is just the worst equinox's ability, mainly NOT because is a bad ability, just because i feel is not at the same level of the others. There are so many suggestions on this thread, and i think it needs to be equal (or closer) to maim's utility and strength (it has a cast effect, an ongoing CC effect and a BOOM end effect), so something should change IMO, the frame just doesn't feel finished like this, is like having an ability button without an ability :(.

Anyway sorry for the bunch of grammar errors, but i'm with my phone, and hè changes words how he wants sometimes (even correct ones xD).

To DE, this frame is awesome and reflect the potential and the variety of this game, and forces people to find a new way to play, giving those who have been here for a very long time something new to play with and new mechanics to explore.

Edited August 7, 2015 by Verna17

[(XBOX)R1M2]

it would have been cool and put an interesting twist on the game if you made two actual yin and yang frames, one being yin and the other being yang and the two would work together in game

[Volinus7]

Metamorphorsis

Stats buff should be only form based not duration based

Night form

Rest : Need a lot of radius size buff

Pacify : Instead of debuff enemies damage it should apply buffs to team members in range with damage reduction

like mesa or trinity, the energy consumption is 1 per each member per second and efficency mods must affect this.

This will give Equinox a chance to exchange fire with nullifiers and tough high lvl grineer mobs.

Mend : All leftover from the stored energy should go to overshield or apply a health buff like chroma.

And while being active heal 3HP per second like rejuvenate or apply status resistance like oberon.

Day form

Rage : initial staggering

Provoke : change the name to "intensify" because it doesnt provoke anyone. Duh....

Maim : Amplify absorbed damage by 300-400% since it only absorb the lethal blows and this will make it a proper "Nuke"

With these buffs he can fit the roles

Healer and damage reduction buffer like trinity but not as spamable

Nuker like Nova but at slower pace

Can do stealth mission like loki by Rest but not as easy

Yeah he's still a duck but useful duck that can do everything "properly"

The current equinox

No deployable shield(like globe and electric shield) checked

No self-buff damage reduction(like shattered shield, blessing or effective armor buff like vex) checked

No ability that redirects enemies attention(like decoy, hall or mirror, molt) checked

No invisibility/invulnerability (invisibility, smoke screen, hysteria, undertow) checked

No effective CC (radial blind, molecular prime, prism, miasma, radial disarm, chaos)(Maim is sluggish and far less effective the animation is long and stun is short) checked

Survivability = ULTRA POOR

I'm still confused that DE released such a well designed concept frame, but need huge overhaul immediately upon its release.

The previous frames should give them a lesson on how survivability in high lvl scaling works.

Edited August 7, 2015 by Volinus7

[----Fenrir----]

Maim : Amplify absorbed damage by 300-400% since it only absorb the lethal blows and this will make it a proper "Nuke"

 

 

No no no, while Equinox needs buffs, Maim is fine. Doing what you just suggested would totally break the ability.

 

I mean did you try using Equinox together with another damage frame like Mesa or Saryn? The more damage they do, the faster the counter fills up and the more often you can nuke. I pretty much always out-damaged other damage frames because of this. Saryn using Miasma only once for example will usually add around 60k to your damage counter. A Mesa in peace maker will get you to 60k every 10 seconds with enough enemies around so you can constantly nuke. And it's rather cheap to run Maim.

 

It does not quiet work alone against high level enemies, at least not fast enough, but when paired with another damage frame you can get amazing results and a 400% multiplier would make Maim completely overpowered.

 

 

 

Survivability = ULTRA POOR

I'm still confused that DE released such a well designed concept frame, but need huge overhaul immediately upon its release.

The previous frames should give them a lesson on how survivability in high lvl scaling works.

 

Here I have to agree, as far as survivability is concerned Equinox is bottom of the barrel around Embers level. Spamming energy restores to keep Pacify with it's horrendous energy consumption running helps but it's still vastly inferior to similar damage reduction abilities that other frames can keep running without having to spam energy restores (Mirage, Mesa, or Chroma for example).

Edited August 7, 2015 by ----Fenrir----

[Volinus7]

No no no, while Equinox needs buffs, Maim is fine. Doing what you just suggested would totally break the ability.

 

I mean did you try using Equinox together with another damage frame like Mesa or Saryn? The more damage they do, the faster the counter fills up and the more often you can nuke. I pretty much always out-damaged other damage frames because of this. Saryn using Miasma only once for example will usually add around 60k to your damage counter. A Mesa in peace maker will get you to 60k every 10 seconds with enough enemies around so you can constantly nuke. And it's rather cheap to run Maim.

 

It does not quiet work alone against high level enemies, at least not fast enough, but when paired with another damage frame you can get amazing results and a 400% multiplier would make Maim completely overpowered.

 

 

 

 

Here I have to agree, as far as survivability is concerned Equinox is bottom of the barrel around Embers level. Spamming energy restores to keep Pacify with it's horrendous energy consumption running helps but it's still vastly inferior to similar damage reduction abilities that other frames can keep running without having to spam energy restores (Mirage, Mesa, or Chroma for example).

If pacify get fixed as I said, I'm pretty sure ppl would stay in night form because DR is more important.

Then what's the meaning of day form?

When compared with other nuke like AMD, maim needs more preparation. First casting metamorphosis which take quite a time then casting Maim

combined it's 4 seconds!!! of execution plus the time you need to kill and raise the counter. and you need to sacrifice DR of night form

I'm sure equinox will be taken down before making any nuke connected.

The risk is not worth it.

[kermit223]

I did a quick test and it looks like efficiency mods don't work on Pacify.

 

175% power efficiency 10 enemies  450 energy -> 0 energy ~1 min 40 s.

100% power efficiency 10 enemies  450 energy -> 0 energy ~1 min 40 s.

 

Can anyone test this? Maybe I did something wrong.

[Erl-King]

After playing some time as Equinox I can tell that DE took two opposite frames - Ember & Trinity and blend em together.

Day Form does everything that Ember can, but better:

1) Maim is mostly better than World on Fire:
+++ it stagger enemies
+ it have scalable burst damage
+ it does not depend on Duration
2) Provoke does not buff Equinox herself, but provide great buff to team for negligable cost.
3) Fireblast / Fireball and Metamorphosis (buff) / Rage are niche powers that people like to have, but these dont make much difference.

Night Form is Trinity wannabe, but fail at everything she does:

1) Mend vs Blessing

Blessing
+ 1sec cast
+ infinite range
+ instant 100% heal and shield restore
+ scalable damage reduction up to 95% (abusable to ridicilously)
-+ High energy cost, but it does not matter since Trinity have Energy Vampire

Mend
- 2 sec initial cast
- range restriction of 18m
- have to charge by killing enemies up close
- high energy maintain cost

So Mend is worse in everything - slower, unreliable, drain power without any effect.


2) Link vs Pacify

Link
+ CC reflect
+ Damage reflect
+ 75% damage reduction
+ active as long as at least one enemy in range
+ energy cost does not matter since Trinity have Energy Vampire
- depend on duration
- affect only Trinity and does not benefit team

Pacify
- damage debuff UP TO 50% (for power build up to 85%)
- damage debuff limited by range and diminish at distance from Equinox
- high energy cost PER ENEMY (and you ll pay full cost even for enemy 1% debuffed at edge of aura)
+ toggleable, does not depend on duration
+ protect team

Only positive side of Pacify that it protect team... wait, damage reduction diminish when enemy not close to Equinox, so for protecting team Equinox should charge in... wait, if she charge in, enemies would shoot her, not teammates, so whats the point? Overall its not that much of team support power.

3) Rest vs Energy Vampire

Energy Vampire
+++ UNLIMITED ENERGY FOR EVERYBODY
+ % based damage
+ stun, interruptible by disable procs
- single target

Rest
+- stun, not interruptible by procs, but limited by damage trashold
+ finisher open up
+ low cost/spammable
+ AoE effect... wait... 2m AoE range, seriously? scratch that
- essentially single target

4) Well of Life / Metamorphosis - both not that useful though have niche uses.


Overall we got - crappy looking, but efficient Day Form that is upgraded version of Ember with some unique features and stylish cool looking Night Form that is nerfed to unusability Trinity without anything special to talk about.



Few more random ideas:


Metamorphosis

1) Do not restrict casting during transformation.
2) Transfer toggle of channeling powers - Pacify/Provoke and Mend/Maim with its counter to other form.
3) Activate powers of next form at start of transformation, and deactivate powers of previous form at end of transformation, so it applies BOTH effects of active powers during transformation:
- Rest&Rage if cast during switch put target to sleep AND buff damage dealt to it (increased speed proportionally decrease sleep duration though).
- Pacify&Provoke buff tenno power AND reduce enemy damage.
- Mend&Maim split counter for heal and damage if deactivated during switch.

Reasoning: Current form switch feels too clunky and prevent active transfering from one form to another, especially in combat, because you lose M&M counter, have to recast aura powers and can't cast R&R until transfer is over.


Pacify

1) Fix cost at 0.5 energy per enemy at each rank, higher cost at lower ranks feels weird as damage debuff at lower ranks abysmal.
2) Diminish cost per enemy along with debuff diminish depending on range from Equinox.
3) Regenerate up to 5 energy per second to Equinox per enemy under effects of Rest (to clarify - energy is only for Equinox)

Reasoning: Currently Equinox could apply weak debuff, but require full cost for enemies near edge of Pacify aura. Energy regeneration combo allow Night Form to be more self sustainable and counter high energy cost in case of swarms of enemies.


Mend

1) Split received damage proportionally to effective health (shields+armor*health) between all allies in range, unless damage excell total sum.
2) On deactivation create shadow of frame (static or following frame like specter) that have health = excessive healing and absorb 50% of damage dealt to original.

Reasoning: Mend as ties that bind team together, strenghtening weakest links of chain. Great survivability combo with tanks like Valkyr, Chroma, summoner Nekros.

[BlueOwlRest]

I did a quick test and it looks like efficiency mods don't work on Pacify.

 

175% power efficiency 10 enemies  450 energy -> 0 energy ~1 min 40 s.

100% power efficiency 10 enemies  450 energy -> 0 energy ~1 min 40 s.

 

Can anyone test this? Maybe I did something wrong.

you didn't do anything wrong. Simply put, the energy consumption by wiki is like 0.5 and with efficiency it would be like 0.125. But the common rule is to use whole numbers.... in short 0.5 is a lie and it's 1 energy every time. posted something about this earlier too, another thread maybe.

 

anyway, this is the big problem with the energy consumption of pacify. So there has been suggestions of having it do energy consumption on the number allies instead of enemies.

Edited August 7, 2015 by AkemiStar