What Is Your Reason For Not Using Kubrows?

[DxAdder]

Terrible AI, and since they have no ranged attack they are often targeted.

[_Rue_]

Updated and organized the data.

 

Odd that no one is talking about Kubrow and the Tar Mutalist Moa... Thank god for floating Sentinels.

[Avenias]

Because kubrows suck.

[_Rue_]

Because kubrows suck.

Please be more specific. Which aspect? Why?

 

Also, The goal is to make them better. If we can identify why they are not used, then maybe these reasons can be remedied so more people will use them. A lot of people already added suggestions in the discussion. I think it's going well and will do even better with your contribution.

 

Thanks!

[stoybot]

The biggest reason for me is not related to kubrows per se; it's the frame item pick-up range. I enjoy gunplay, yet I don't enjoy running around and getting out of position just to sustain my energy and ammo supply... in order to continue fighting effectively. I wouldn't mind doing that a few times, but the high rate at which you kill enemies in Warframe, particularly in endless missions, makes the task boring and inefficient. When collecting ammo, energy, and life support hinders my movement across a tileset, I'll take a Carrier to get around that problem. Any experienced FPS player knows that positioning is often more important than good aim. This is why I find the comments about Carrier being a companion for noobs pretty amusing.

 

In my opinion, it's not even a sentinel vs kubrow question - it's Carrier vs everything else. Defense-type missions excepted, my Raksa and Huras are way better than the other sentinels; I wouldn't stick 5-6 formas in them otherwise.

[_Rue_]

The biggest reason for me is not related to kubrows per se; it's the frame item pick-up range. I enjoy gunplay, yet I don't enjoy running around and getting out of position just to sustain my energy and ammo supply... in order to continue fighting effectively. I wouldn't mind doing that a few times, but the high rate at which you kill enemies in Warframe, particularly in endless missions, makes the task boring and inefficient. When collecting ammo, energy, and life support hinders my movement across a tileset, I'll take a Carrier to get around that problem. Any experienced FPS player knows that positioning is often more important than good aim. This is why I find the comments about Carrier being a companion for noobs pretty amusing.

 

In my opinion, it's not even a sentinel vs kubrow question - it's Carrier vs everything else. Defense-type missions excepted, my Raksa and Huras are way better than the other sentinels; I wouldn't stick 5-6 formas in them otherwise.

Definitely agree here. If Carrier's ability was given to all the companions, then we  would probably see more use across the board.

[stoybot]

Definitely agree here. If Carrier's ability was given to all the companions, then we  would probably see more use across the board.

 

Tying it to a companion is not great either. For example, new players take a while to scrounge up enough credits for a companion.

[Diarist]

Because they're trash, and also ugly as sin.

[_Rue_]

Tying it to a companion is not great either. For example, new players take a while to scrounge up enough credits for a companion.

Good point, the question i guess becomes, what range of players should get this ability?

 

is it supposed to go from MR 0  up or is it something for more advance players (who have the ability to get a Kubrow or sentinel)?

[(PSN)DesecratedFlame]

They aren't any better than my Carrier Prime.

 

I was using them at first anyway because of their tamagotchi like qualities, but DE caved to the P2W players on that front so I just fridged them and went back to using Carrier.

[Gilmaesh]

Maybe a stupid reason aside from the obvious limitation (the wait, the credits etc) but i didn't like their design, so i chose not to use them. However, since they added armor, they look ok now, so i'm starting to use them.

 

But it will be hard to replace the carrier, i'm too used to it. (pick up radius suck without)

[--Q--Ascended-Seraphim]

Kubrows lose out in every aspect compared to a sentinel.

Mobility

Utility

AI

Damage (AI related)

Cost to build

Cost to mod (I have a 8 forma one with all max mods)

Cost to get out of stasis

Cost to upkeep.

TL;DR : Kubrows ain't worth it in their current state.

[(PSN)kira4715]

Ai is horrible, high upkeep/breeding costs and time, has no ranged damage attacks/Can't get elemental combos oh and tend to run at groups of level 80 bombards 

[(XBOX)LIL Mogwai42]

The only Kubrow that is useful is Huras. Unless youre running LOKI, a 2 hour survival is pretty tough to escape. Even than I take off the attack mod. No huras, Carrier all the way. The dogs are horrible.

[UltimateNinjaWarrior]

they're annoying

 

like you

 

:^)

[Avenias]

Please be more specific. Which aspect? Why?

Also, The goal is to make them better. If we can identify why they are not used, then maybe these reasons can be remedied so more people will use them. A lot of people already added suggestions in the discussion. I think it's going well and will do even better with your contribution.

Thanks!

every aspect of kubrows are bad. They do bad damage, cant tank,no brains to avoid, take cover or dodge enemy fire, they just bunny hop to their death.inability to manually control ur kubrows exact movement makes them utterly useless. Its just mastery rank fodder. I prefer carrier, dont need it to fight,just picking up stuff is fine with me.

[CarrotSalad]

-very poor AI

-no vacuum

-severely needs more interactive options or a heroic ability to make them feel more emotionally dear/attached to them.

 

The costs and RNG too but these justs deter me from trying them. After i tried them the above issues just make them forgettable.

[Laoshottie_X]

-very poor AI

-no vacuum

-severely needs more interactive options or a heroic ability to make them feel more emotionally dear/attached to them.

 

The costs and RNG too but these justs deter me from trying them. After i tried them the above issues just make them forgettable.

Spot on thoughts that is also on my mind.

 

but my major take on it is the POOOOOOOR AI. Taking the long ways around, getting stuck rendering it useless to kill stuff for you or even use it's abilities, and gets targetted way too much

Edited September 15, 2015 by TrueBuddhaBruh

[-CM-Hekovashi]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hwOZQkHmbGU

[HimitsuDragon]

I stopped using Kubrows because for the last month or so I've been trying to breed a Chesa... and many many many ( 10x many more) eggs later... Still no Chesa =/

[Illamonati]

Companions are sinmply not useful enough for me to even care.

 

Its a accessory at best and I like my wyrm^^

[(PSN)Immortal_2345]

The A.I. As others have said, or lack of, is bad. They get stuck under stair cases all the time and recklessly run towards large groups of enemies and usually end up dying. The only reason I use my raksa Kubrow is for a change of pace from carrier and the shield recharge and terrify ability isn't all that bad.

But with carrier I can not worry about picking everything up or seeing if I missed a mod or ammo as it will get it for me so then I can focus more on the enemies and where I should go to next on the map. I guess that makes me non pro player and a casual scrub according to Glenn lol.

[Evil_Brick]

Why i don't use Kubrows? Many reasons, let's start at the abilities and main differences between Kubrows and Sentinels:

 

Protect? It can refill your shields, although it doesnt fill large shields to 100%, and it triggers almost immediately upon you taking damage, thus wasting it. It is also locked to the Raksa kubrow. The Sentinel equivalent, Guardian always refills any shield to 100% no matter capacity, and only triggers when they're drained, which means it's never wasted.

 

Howl? Not that bad, but it seems to trigger too easily, it'd also be more useful if it didn't make enemies run away and instead froze them in fear or something, jeez i dunno. But it's not terrible. I prefer Crowd Dispersion, more reliable.

 

Dig? Cute, but it doesn't seem all that useful, it's just little things that might be of slight use, but it'll only dig if it isn't distracted by enemies, this'll rarely be of use because of this.

 

Savagery/Ferocity? Doesn't always do proper damage, and enemies are rendered immune to damage during the duration of the animation. It's cool but not very useful from what i've experienced and heard, correct me if i'm wrong. Not to mention i'm not sure if Kubrows have the sense to direct itself towards enemies that'd actually need to be prioritized, rather than just random enemies.

 

Unleashed? Very situational, most of the time capture targets aren't that hard to take down (other than that one particular tactical alert we had a good while ago).

 

Neutralize? Not any personal experience, but it MIGHT be useful if it's either used often, or on tough enemies. But knowing Kubrow AI, this is very unlikely.

 

Retrieve? Correct me if i'm wrong, but does this immediately pick up any item in a certain range around you? I'm pretty sure it doesn't, this is inferior to Vacuum. Why would i want to use this? Now i'm not saying Vacuum is the be-all-end-all ability, but in a comparison between Vacuum and Retrieve, Vacuum wins out.

 

Hunt? One of my more enjoyed Kubrow abilities, it seems to hit quite often and deal respectable damage. But i'm not sure how this holds up in higher-leveled missions. It doesn't seem to prioritize targets however, which is a shame.

 

Stalk? A stealth ability i cannot control. I don't enjoy this one at all, nor do i enjoy the Sentinel equivalent. Call me narrow-minded, but during running, gunning and frenzied combat, an uncontrolled cloak will be wasted nine times out of ten.

 

As you can see, i don't have a very high opinion on the abilities of Kubrows and how they measure up in comparison to our hovering friends. Now, what about the other differences?

 

Let's look at their damage, Kubrows as far as i've seen have very unreliable damage output, as they have difficulty reaching targets and attack consistently. Meanwhile Sentinels just take aim and keep firing until the target is dead or out of firing range. Now on paper, kubrows might have more damage, but the attack consistency of Sentinels is just so much better, without risking the Sentinel as much, so with one of the more powerful Sentinel weapons i wouldn't be surprised if a sentinel will outdamage a Kubrow over time. I might be wrong on this.

 

As when it comes to pathfinding, Sentinels win out since they literally don't need it, being literally attached to the area around you, never leaving your side. This makes Kubrows somewhat of a chore to deal with, once again making them unreliable since they depend on pathfinding to reach targets, reach you, or reach items or lockers. This is made even worse by their limited movement options.

 

Sentinels are more convenient, if i want to change my sentinel to suit a mission, i can just switch the one i've equipped. Kubrows come with waiting times. Inconvenient.

 

Kubrow survivability, this is a harder thing to compare. It's easier to heal a Kubrow during a mission, and if a Kubrow gets downed it can be saved, not to mention a Kubrow has more health and shield potential than many sentinels. However, since Kubrow health and shields depend on the health and shields of a Warframe, it'll leave a 'soft' frame with a softer companion, which is counterproductive, and a few 'soft' frames might have difficulty reviving a downed Kubrow, frames such as Nova for instance. Also, Kubrows get themselves into trouble so much more than Sentinels do, which most of the time neutralizes the advantages of Kubrow survivability.

 

Sentinel survivability, they have less health and shields, but are independent from the health and shields of the frame, which as mentioned earlier can be both good and bad. Healing a sentinel requires health recovery items, which is bad, or allied players using a health-recovery ability. Sentinels can refill their health with a mod, but a limited amount of times. And once a Sentinel is gone in a mission, it's gone for good until a revive point is spent. But let's not forget: Sentinels rarely get targeted directly, most of the damage they take is from splash damage, which granted, is common enough later, but still.

 

Upkeep: Sentinels don't have it. Kubrows have it, granted, it can be overcome, but stories of players losing their Kubrows forever are abound, and having to keep the thing consistently happy can be a chore. Not to mention we are encouraged to keep their health as high as possible, since it directly affects in-mission health. This can be somewhat costly, and even if it's indeed possible to overcome, it is inconvenient. I don't want it to be a chore.

 

Kubrows have a tendency to get in the way of your aim even more than sentinels do. This is almost as terrible as when Lex Luthor stole forty cakes, that's as many as four tens. This ties into their AI and behaviour i suppose, although i feel it'd be easily fixed if companions favored the opposite shoulder from which you have your reticle.

 

Too long, didn't read: Sentinel abilities often are more convenient or better than Kubrow equivalents. Kubrows are harder to keep alive during missions. Kubrow behaviour during missions is lacking. Kubrows are inconvenient compared to Sentinels, both in time, cost and effort.

[Mastikator2]

+ Can't afford them.

Not even close. They would have to cost something like 1% of their price for me to afford them, much less be worth it.

Making them isn't what I can't afford mind you, it's keeping them alive.

+ I don't have time for them.

It takes too long to take them out of stasis, even with the upgrade. If I have to wake up in the morning to take them out of stasis so I can play with them when I get home from work, then I'll just not do that then. There are other games on the market that won't degrade me with Skinner box mechanics.

+ The reason I don't just make them is I hate the lottery mechanic of it costing 100k to make a core but then there's no guarantee I won't get the same firetrucking one I already firetrucking have.

Any one of these is more than enough to turn me away from Kubrows

Edit- The forum butchered my post again,

I am batman

Edited September 15, 2015 by Mastikator2

[Husla]

Only reason I dont use kubrows is because they don't stand right next to you like sentinels do. I don't like having it it move around, far away from me only for it to die to some lazers..