What Is Your Reason For Not Using Kubrows?

[Demon.King]

3 things

 

1 - crap AI

2 - no vacuum

3 - attack rate too low

Edited October 9, 2015 by Demon.King

[Daemon-of-Dirt]

I dont use kubrows because one of mine starved to death when I went on vacation, and every time I think about using a kubrow I see its cute furry face looking at me like...:_(

[Thrymm]

I don't use it for a variety of reasons, though god knows I keep trying to.

 

1.  If I'm after a different one, I can't use one.

 

2.  If I'm after a different one, it's an intolerable RNG grind

 

3.  That grind is stupidly expensive in time and credits compared to the reward(I can afford it, but flushing money just doesn't sit with me)

 

4.  Discarding an unwanted result costs even more credits(again I can afford it, but frankly it's insulting)

 

5.  They don't do a hell of alot.  AI is dumb, and they are melee ranged dumb.

 

6.  They are too painful to lose in a mission because while they can be revived, they can get costly to let die, and are too soft to bring to high level because of it.

 

7.  I still don't have all the meaningful mods, which means more RNG.  Without certain key mods maxed, Kubrow damage output really isn't impressive anyway.

 

8.  Sentinels can be well modded without forma(weapons take a bit more work).  Kubrow really cannot.

 

9.  When leveling a new frame/weapon, I often run with carrier+no weapon.  I don't even want the thing stealing kills that I'd be otherwise getting on the stuff I want affinity on.  Against these often lower level targets, the Kubrow actually kills things, stealing affinity that I don't want going there and making kills that don't make the mission safer/easier/more efficient anyway.

[JuanDeages]

I think I have more than enough hours in this game to consider myself a veteran, and I can't be bothered to pay an upkeep cost for kubrows. Sentinals are done once they are done. Work takes up too much of my time to lose more time setting aside credits so my virtual dog doesn't keel over. I'm always spending money on leveling new mods, trading, building gear... I'm ALWAYS poor. Basically, I'm not spending what little I have on upkeep costs.

[iuki.]

Don't really want to level/re-forma my dog 6+ times to make him usable when I already have a carrier fully blinged out. I would have to drop a booster + farm appollo for days on end just for that not including having to re-forma all my frames which are all outdated thanks to nerfs/changes/addition of an additional mod slot. At this time, I am pretty tired of the grind and it really isn't much fun no more. Also, kubro ai is just pathetic and buggy as heck...not so with carrier.

Edited October 9, 2015 by fizbit

[Awazx]

You be patient.

 

This thread needs only to 2500 pages for DE perceives that there is a problem with Kubrows.

 

Let well.

[(PSN)Silverback73]

Kubrows are great fun as show dogs, and the (cross)breeding process is fun but the best thing DE can do is improve A.I. and make their powers more effective and lethal in general, especially in ways that scale.

For now however, they are largely showdogs that you experiment with.

I did not touch them before MR15. Incubator core upgrade and my daughter's need to see us grow them got me to take the leap.

[Phobonaut]

It's an ugly dog.

 

Give me a cyborg dinosaur, and I'll happily pay for all that DNA stabilizers and pet food and stasis chambers and whatnot.

[Rankii]

A batdog is like a sentinel that can run off and die when you aren't looking. Also it's a pain to find eggs, maintain the dog, and there just isn't enough options for customization colors since they use their own. It just feels like yet another pointless timesink and time that could have gone towards improving the core mechanics.

I mean sneaking is still the worst option in this game about space ninjas...but here's a dog!

[Ashnal]

>Dies often-a big target that charges carelessly into the heat of battle and often has a death wish

 

>Upkeep (Stabilizers)

 

>Stasis recovery

 

>Still doesn't measure up to Carrier-Poor AI and abilities that only target 1

 

>Death Penalty-Sentinels have an auto revive and don't have to be minded while Kubrows can be revived, this can lead to dangerous situations with an uncoordinated team. Kubrow death also leads to lost Loyalty while sentinels are more forgiving

 

>Abilities are NOT Unique-There's nothing a Kubrow can do that a sentinel cannot do (sometimes sentinels can do it better) and there is no Kubrow with the ability of Helios

I trimmed the post for specific things I can contest. The rest of your post I don't really have a response for becuase I generally agree with it.

 

First, while they are physically larger they have about the same target priority as a sentinel. That means that if an enemy could be shooting at you instead of your kubrow, it will. However there are cases where a kubrow will be 10-20m away and in range of an enemy who has no other targets. They tend to move fast and erratically though, so the only enemies that ever hit them are hitscan, or when they stop to attack. That being said they are also tankier than sentinels by far, able to withstand more punishment than your typical warframe. The only time my Kubrow ever dies is when he rushes into a group of 3 grineer heavies and a nullifier, gets stunned by the heavies and downed by their weapons. This is a very rare occurrence, and also something that you can still revive them from. Contrast that to a sentinel who will die to random bombard rockets near you, as well die almost every time that you are downed without teammates in the immediate vicinity. Regen only works once, kubrows can be revived infinitely.

 

Let's talk upkeep. Sentinels have it on kubrows here, as they have none at all. Though, I find that kubrow upkeep is not bad. It's almost a non-issue after you get the upgrade segment for the genetic foundry. It takes 40 days of negligence for a kubrow to die, and a single stabilizer (which are sold in packs of 6) gives you 8 days. That's 48 days per 75km which can be farmed in a whopping TWO T3/4 void missions. Kubrow recovery can be rushed with credits now as well, but keeping them out of stasis in the first place isn't a big deal due to the very low upkeep cost. Pretty much a non-issue by this point.

 

You say abilities "only target 1." I'm assuming you mean that kubrow abilities are all single target, correct me if I'm wrong though. This statement would also be wrong. Rahksa's Howl and Huras' Hunt are both multitarget AoE abilities. Also, most sentinel abilities are single target as well. The only AoE ones sentinels have are Wyrm's Crowd Dispersion, Diriga's Arc Coil, and Dijin's Fatal Attraction. Considering there are more sentinels than kubrows, the comparison is about equal. As far as function goes, all of those sentinel abilities are AoE CC, yet Raksa's Howl is better than all three of them. Crowd Dispersion has a really short range, activation delay, and enemies like heavy gunners are immune to it while doing their ground pound. Arc Coil has decent range, but only affects up to 7 targets, and only has a low chance to actually stun, making it unreliable. Fatal Attraction is decent with great range, but has a longish cooldown (30s) and only stays active for 6 seconds. Raksa's Howl is very similar to Nekros' Terrify, with good range, it also slows enemies, and no enemies are immune to it (except some bosses, who are also immune to sentinel CC). Howl is the most powerful AoE CC available from a  companion. Huras' Hunt is not a CC ability, but rather one for killing. It has no equivalent as sentinel abilities are either all defensive or utility, and it is quite good as it hits multiple targets and does very good damage that scales with kubrow damage mods higher damage than any sentinel can put out, and in an AoE.

 

As for other abilities, both Sahasa and Sunika have unique abilities, though admittedly not as amazing as Raksa and Huras. Sahasa can CREATE new supplies (and even loot) for the owner. Unlike say carrier who has to have something lying on the floor to suck up (that the owner could easily walk 10m and pick up themselves), the supplies a Sahasa generates are always tailored to what the owner is missing too. Sunika is rather unimpressive and never worth using sadly, though it can pin down capture targets, which is a unique ability, albeit not that useful. Both Sahasa and Sunika can pin down enemy units and stun them in general, though the same effect can be had with either the Sweeper or Vulklok with status CC builds. Generally I find sentinels to be better at single target CC due to how good the Sweeper Prime and Vuklok are at locking down a single target with status procs like blast and electricity, precisely because you can limit them to 10-14m or so with most sentinels for anti-melee unit protection.

 

Let's not forget that kubrows in general do more damage than sentinels and their weapons. Kubrows generally don't attack as often though, and miss more than sentinels.

 

Overall I think you sell kubrows short by not recognizing what they can be used for, and what they are good at. There are certain things they do better than sentinels (randomly killing enemies, AoE CC, cloaking, loot creation), and certain things sentinels do better (small but steady damage to enemies, loot collection, scanning, single target CC). I'm not attached to vacuum like many players seem to be, so I generally use the right companion for the job.

[_Rue_]

I trimmed the post for specific things I can contest. The rest of your post I don't really have a response for becuase I generally agree with it.

 

First, while they are physically larger they have about the same target priority as a sentinel. That means that if an enemy could be shooting at you instead of your kubrow, it will. However there are cases where a kubrow will be 10-20m away and in range of an enemy who has no other targets. They tend to move fast and erratically though, so the only enemies that ever hit them are hitscan, or when they stop to attack. That being said they are also tankier than sentinels by far, able to withstand more punishment than your typical warframe. The only time my Kubrow ever dies is when he rushes into a group of 3 grineer heavies and a nullifier, gets stunned by the heavies and downed by their weapons. This is a very rare occurrence, and also something that you can still revive them from. Contrast that to a sentinel who will die to random bombard rockets near you, as well die almost every time that you are downed without teammates in the immediate vicinity. Regen only works once, kubrows can be revived infinitely.

 

Let's talk upkeep. Sentinels have it on kubrows here, as they have none at all. Though, I find that kubrow upkeep is not bad. It's almost a non-issue after you get the upgrade segment for the genetic foundry. It takes 40 days of negligence for a kubrow to die, and a single stabilizer (which are sold in packs of 6) gives you 8 days. That's 48 days per 75km which can be farmed in a whopping TWO T3/4 void missions. Kubrow recovery can be rushed with credits now as well, but keeping them out of stasis in the first place isn't a big deal due to the very low upkeep cost. Pretty much a non-issue by this point.

 

You say abilities "only target 1." I'm assuming you mean that kubrow abilities are all single target, correct me if I'm wrong though. This statement would also be wrong. Rahksa's Howl and Huras' Hunt are both multitarget AoE abilities. Also, most sentinel abilities are single target as well. The only AoE ones sentinels have are Wyrm's Crowd Dispersion, Diriga's Arc Coil, and Dijin's Fatal Attraction. Considering there are more sentinels than kubrows, the comparison is about equal. As far as function goes, all of those sentinel abilities are AoE CC, yet Raksa's Howl is better than all three of them. Crowd Dispersion has a really short range, activation delay, and enemies like heavy gunners are immune to it while doing their ground pound. Arc Coil has decent range, but only affects up to 7 targets, and only has a low chance to actually stun, making it unreliable. Fatal Attraction is decent with great range, but has a longish cooldown (30s) and only stays active for 6 seconds. Raksa's Howl is very similar to Nekros' Terrify, with good range, it also slows enemies, and no enemies are immune to it (except some bosses, who are also immune to sentinel CC). Howl is the most powerful AoE CC available from a  companion. Huras' Hunt is not a CC ability, but rather one for killing. It has no equivalent as sentinel abilities are either all defensive or utility, and it is quite good as it hits multiple targets and does very good damage that scales with kubrow damage mods higher damage than any sentinel can put out, and in an AoE.

 

As for other abilities, both Sahasa and Sunika have unique abilities, though admittedly not as amazing as Raksa and Huras. Sahasa can CREATE new supplies (and even loot) for the owner. Unlike say carrier who has to have something lying on the floor to suck up (that the owner could easily walk 10m and pick up themselves), the supplies a Sahasa generates are always tailored to what the owner is missing too. Sunika is rather unimpressive and never worth using sadly, though it can pin down capture targets, which is a unique ability, albeit not that useful. Both Sahasa and Sunika can pin down enemy units and stun them in general, though the same effect can be had with either the Sweeper or Vulklok with status CC builds. Generally I find sentinels to be better at single target CC due to how good the Sweeper Prime and Vuklok are at locking down a single target with status procs like blast and electricity, precisely because you can limit them to 10-14m or so with most sentinels for anti-melee unit protection.

 

Let's not forget that kubrows in general do more damage than sentinels and their weapons. Kubrows generally don't attack as often though, and miss more than sentinels.

 

Overall I think you sell kubrows short by not recognizing what they can be used for, and what they are good at. There are certain things they do better than sentinels (randomly killing enemies, AoE CC, cloaking, loot creation), and certain things sentinels do better (small but steady damage to enemies, loot collection, scanning, single target CC). I'm not attached to vacuum like many players seem to be, so I generally use the right companion for the job.

Larger so the non hit-scan projectiles hit the kubrow instead of you or you end up shooting the thing while it and you go for the same target.

 

I think what the posters mean in general was the fact that some skills affect only 1. When they attack, they generally also hit 1 target at a time. Sentinels despite having abilities that target only one can quickly switch from one target to another (ranged attack) while Kubrow have to grapple with bad AI, and terrain before attacking and even then there's the chance it misses. Sentinels also miss, but it's less noticeable because it uses ranged attacks.

 

Yes abilities are unique but not useful. The posters were referring to the abilities of the sentinels, more likely to Helios.

 

Yes they do. It's also just 1 damage type and cannot be changed. When you also have AI, pathing/terrain, targeting issues you get a very unreliable damage dealer. Posters also comment on how their sentinels can be configured not to attack, while Kubrows cannot.

 

Not really. Considering that they cost more to create, mod and maintain, they should be better than sentinels across the board. AoE CC and Loot Digging are cute abilities, but cloaking is really the most useful. Even then you have a sentinel that does that for you. Would you spend more resources for roughly the same thing? Most people would not.

 

I have an Omega Huras that use for raids. Only raids. The only reason why I have her is her cloak activation range. It took a very long time to get her and even more to give her the right mods. She Needs 8 polarities to fit all the mods for damage and survivability. (these mods are also mostly 10-rank mods)

 

After that, you cannot even use those mods on some other thing. Sentinel weapon mods can be used by your own weapons.

 

At this point they are not worth the effort. Only people with an abundance of resources use them.

Edited October 10, 2015 by _Rue_

[unknow99]

These animals seem braindead, that's why!...

[(XBOX)Archibald Jax]

Been seeing a fair amount of people defending the upkeep. True, the cost in credits isn't bad, but that isn't my problem. My problem with upkeep is that they have an upkeep in the first place. At present, nothing else in this game requires routine maintenance, having to provide such for a kubrow just annoys me. If I wanted to care for a pet, I would go to the pet store and buy one, not play a video game about space ninjas.

[(PSN)AllOrNothinDays]

I like to be able to sign in and play. I don't want to have to sign in, wait for my kubrow to suddenly be well so I can play alongside it. They fixed it I think so it uses up credits instead of platinum to speed it up now I think? It's just one of those things where I'll use them more once DE gets rid of all the nonsense that comes with ti that I don't have time for.

[[DE]Momaw]

I like to be able to sign in and play. I don't want to have to sign in, wait for my kubrow to suddenly be well so I can play alongside it

 

...what?  Your kubrow shouldn't be in stasis when you log in o_O  Does it have like no health whatsoever, and you're relying on the auto-stasis-when-near-death feature of the upgraded incubator segment? Is that a thing?

 

I'm confused.

[DrFail]

My primary reason is that I just can't be bothered to deal with the upkeep. There's not enough different about a kubrow to a sentinel at the end of the day for me to feel justified dropping credits into their mouths on a regular basis, even if the amount of credits are manageable. This says nothing of the credit cost that's already there in maxing out kubrow mods. In addition, I don't know if it still is but their AI when I used them was... subpar. That or Kubrows are just natural pacifist monks, as mine spent most of their time performing two actions: A) standing directly in front of me attempting to block my shots at the enemy and insisting that the grineer arn't evil, just misunderstood. B) extendedly meditating in toxic waste and electrified water.

Edited October 11, 2015 by DrFail

[AgentScarlet]

...what?  Your kubrow shouldn't be in stasis when you log in o_O  Does it have like no health whatsoever, and you're relying on the auto-stasis-when-near-death feature of the upgraded incubator segment? Is that a thing?

 

I'm confused.

This person probably does what I do - which is leaving Kubrows in stasis 99% of the time and only bringing them out only when I plan to use them, and then putting them back when I'm done, thus reducing the need for DNA stabilizers (since they're almost never out during the server reset). Do people actually leave their kubrows out all day? O_o

[3tomatoes]

I don't use Kubrows because Carrier exists.

[[DE]Momaw]

This person probably does what I do - which is leaving Kubrows in stasis 99% of the time and only bringing them out only when I plan to use them, and then putting them back when I'm done, thus reducing the need for DNA stabilizers (since they're almost never out during the server reset). Do people actually leave their kubrows out all day? O_o

 

Right. So...

 

DNA stabilizer costs 75K credits for 6 doses. That's 12500 credits per dose.

 

DNA stabilizer restores 40% of kubrow health.

 

With upgraded incubator segment, kubrows lose 5% health per day, so you need to give them at least 1 dose per 8 days.

 

Stabilizer cost per day is 1562.5 credits.

 

Kubrow takes 30 minutes to thaw out from stasis.

 

You can make 20-30K credits in 30 minutes without really trying

 

Sooooo....Ya'll are getting upset and salty about having to wait for recovery times, but reality is that you would make far more credits per hour by just leaving your dog out of stasis and using it when you want to, than you do by not playing for half an hour each day.

[AgentScarlet]

Right. So...

 

DNA stabilizer costs 75K credits for 6 doses. That's 12500 credits per dose.

 

DNA stabilizer restores 40% of kubrow health.

 

With upgraded incubator segment, kubrows lose 5% health per day, so you need to give them at least 1 dose per 8 days.

 

Stabilizer cost per day is 1562.5 credits.

 

Kubrow takes 30 minutes to thaw out from stasis.

 

You can make 20-30K credits in 30 minutes without really trying

 

Sooooo....Ya'll are getting upset and salty about having to wait for recovery times, but reality is that you would make far more credits per hour by just leaving your dog out of stasis and using it when you want to, than you do by not playing for half an hour each day.

Alternate solution: use a sentinel while your kubrow thaws. No need to whine about recovery time.

 

I don't have time to play warframe every day. It doesn't make sense for me to leave my kubrows out for their loyalty and DNA integrity to decay while I'm not using them.

[(PSN)AllOrNothinDays]

Right. So...

 

DNA stabilizer costs 75K credits for 6 doses. That's 12500 credits per dose.

 

DNA stabilizer restores 40% of kubrow health.

 

With upgraded incubator segment, kubrows lose 5% health per day, so you need to give them at least 1 dose per 8 days.

 

Stabilizer cost per day is 1562.5 credits.

 

Kubrow takes 30 minutes to thaw out from stasis.

 

You can make 20-30K credits in 30 minutes without really trying

 

Sooooo....Ya'll are getting upset and salty about having to wait for recovery times, but reality is that you would make far more credits per hour by just leaving your dog out of stasis and using it when you want to, than you do by not playing for half an hour each day.

 

There's no salt involved. It's more like "what is the point of this even being in the game?" What purpose does it serve? 

[(PSN)lydon123]

Well I would use kubrows.....actually let me just walk over to my incubator and...oh that's right I'm still incubating eggs for the chesa or is it chesna. Oh well, my poor doggies will be free again....one day...one...day.

[Surloch]

I would love to use my Kubrow's more except for two things.

 

1) Loot. Kubrow's aren't Carrier's therefore they never get taken out of stasis as Carrier is just too useful.

 

2) Breeding. Even if for some reason I wanted to take my Kubrow out for a spin, the incubator is constantly taken up trying to perfect my Lotus Huras and Raksa builds and coloring.

 

I even bought the Prime Access and have cool armor and the prime collar. I just never get a chance to use them.

Edited October 12, 2015 by Surloch