Vacuum Hate (I Just Don't Get It)

[(XBOX)CERNUNNOS]

Tbh, if they increased the pickup radius around your warframe to 1-2m instead of just right under you, that'd be fine. Vacuum is what 12m?

Yes Vacuum isn't "mandatory" or "essential" but the utility of it is just too good to pass up for a lot of people. You might like to run around in circles until you have picked up all the loot in a room, but that isn't an option for a lot of people.

Frames really should pick stuff up from a few feet away instead of having to touch the loot. They could make it an exilus mod and gouge ppl plat for the adapters.

Also, 12m for carrier seems like too much. That would be nearly 40 feet and I don't recall carrier having that great of range.

[Oranji]

All current and future sentinels will continue to bow down to the almighty Carrier King.

They will of course be given a few weeks to shine before nerfed to oblivion.

 

Carrier & Carrier Prime will still be the most used sentinel ever. Period.

[HalfDarkShadow]

You might like to run around in circles until you have picked up all the loot in a room, but that isn't an option for a lot of people.

Just to clarify, they do have an option not to use it, but it's so ingrained and became such a comfortable thing to have, in their perspective, (then yes) they really can't see a world without having it. But I understood exactly what you were referring (pretty much what I just said hah).

 

Beyond that, I don't have much input about this, beside that I follow the "to each their own" mentality and to just generally to those people who "can't see it any other way", is to keep an open mind, and to at least try sometime to do try a different loadout or a different Warframe and whatnot, and to dive into something that's uncomfortable. I don't mean just level a Warframe to 30 either, but I also am not suggesting to play it for hours on end either. Just enough to mess around with it for a day or so, read a bit up on modding it, and generally see why a certain group of players enjoy that certain weapon or frame, beyond what a friend tells you, or what you read on the internet regarding it's reputation.

Hell if I didn't do that, then I would have never found out that Zephyr is exactly the kind of playstyle I enjoy the most in the game, that throwing weapons (and Redeemer) are super fun weapons, and that despite giving Vauban so much play time to see if I would enjoy him (his skills look really awesome) but ending up not ever really using him, because I can't get over his Kingdom-Hearts-Goofy-Sora feet/shoes haha. Seriously, they're the derpyiest thing I've ever seen in this game so far. But I digress lol.

 

Anyways, the only thing I have to say in regards to this topic, is the only time someone using a Carrier bothers me, is not them using it persay, is when during a mission they'll go out of their way to get on the mic or type out, asking me why I'm bringing my Raksa/Chesa Kubrow and honestly, saying quite hurtful things such as "they're S#&$/useless/etc", and so on. Seriously, what gives you (generally speaking here) the right to tell me how I enjoy the game? If anyone wants to use that Carrier, go right ahead, it doesn't affect me, and if that's how you enjoy the game, who am I to say? As long it's not negatively affecting the party, different strokes for different folks. Just be respectful and don't ridicule the way I play. I love Kubrows and Helios, so whatever. I never understood why it bothers that many people. Well, at least enough times to actually point this out here, seriously lol.

 

It's even more apparent (since I play Archwing quite regularly), that I get so much flak for using my Odanata/Odanata Prime (via "go back to earth if you're going to use that, you Odanata player"), despite quite a few occasions, I'm the one dealing the most damage by the end of the mission, reviving them, and generally just being a respectful team player.

I'm sorry that I don't use my Itzal or Elytron much and I really enjoy using Odanata/Odanata Prime; that I'm the one being able to protect the carrier (the new defense mission one), while you're on the other side where the destroyed one is for some odd reason, that you couldn't protect to begin with haha. True story lol. But I'm just digressing again.

 

But geez, seriously, this stuff doesn't normally bother me (it really doesn't), but it's happened enough times, especially as of late, that hell, I'm writing about it here because of how frequent recently it's been haha. Just relax my friend, don't let my Kubrow ruin your time, and don't be that guy that actually leaves the party because I'm using a Kubrow lol (yes, that has happened to me before haha).

Edited October 6, 2015 by HalfDarkShadow

[(PSN)Zeylon]

 don't really know if vacuum can pick up loot behind walls or not, but if it can, this is pretty much the only viable reason I can think of for giving other sentinels some kind of vacuum, otherwise DE could increase a Frame's pick-up range enough for this to not be an issue.

 

It does.  Without triggering walls in the void, etc. you can blow up containers behind them using something with punch-through, and carrier will pick up the resources/mods/ammo.

 

It annoys me to see people keep saying how it's so mandatory when I know there are plenty of people like me who don't even use it.

 

The devs stated in devstream 59 (I think?) that it was more used by a large margin.

 

I personally always use it.  It removes the tedium of running around collecting loot.  It also makes it more likely that you actually get *more* loot, since I often find it picking up mods/etc. that I didn't actually see.  It allows you to pick up things like energy/health/ammo at less risk to your character, as well (strategic value).  Getting loot from behind walls is nice since the void (and everywhere else, if we're honest) can sometimes be a bit buggy as far as loot rooms.  It's also helpful in getting mods that fall into areas that trigger a position reset (e.g. - pits, etc.).  

 

I've played without it, but the game is significantly more annoying loot-wise without it.  Using carrier is a combination of that factor and the fact that other sentinels/companions tend not to add much worth mentioning.  Shade isn't reliable enough for a stealth playthrough (compared to Loki/Ash) for example, and the combat ones tend to scale poorly as far as usefulness.  Helios is kinda useful, but it just tackles a different (and finite) QoL issue of scanning things.  

[xveganrox]

Warframe is all about speed farming and looting - that's like 98% of the gameplay. Vacuum is strictly QOL and should definitely be available on all sentinels. If you don't see it as an inconvenience, maybe it isn't for you, but it will be. Here's why: if you're at the point where you're sticking around long enough in rooms to collect items without it being a bother, you probably haven't spent much time playing. After playing a lot you'll get to the point where 99% of mobs die instantly if you so much as exhale in their general direction. You're not going to want to stop at that point and bounce around on their corpse to make sure you get all your Alloy Plate for each enemy - you're going to want to run through the stage as fast as possible and insta-kill everything to grab the loot to make the items to get the mastery so you can do it again, that's just how it goes. If you aren't at that point yet you probably don't understand why Carrier is ubiquitous.

Personally, I can't stand the idea of using a floating pear with a built in vacuum to pick up items for me. I'd much rather be involved in the game and gather my own loot.

That being said, there is a reason I've been seeing as to why more sentinels should be given some sort of vacuum of their own. Whenever I run the void with my Diriga and Steel Meridian weapons, my Syndicate proc often activates in rooms with containers hidden behind the walls, and Diriga's Animal Instinct mod usually shows a mod or two. This usually leads to activating every switch in the room, only for every wall except for the one hiding the mod to open, and the mod itself tends to drop just a hair out of our normal pick-up range. I don't really know if vacuum can pick up loot behind walls or not, but if it can, this is pretty much the only viable reason I can think of for giving other sentinels some kind of vacuum, otherwise DE could increase a Frame's pick-up range enough for this to not be an issue.

It can pull mods and resources through walls, either when they're behind them like in the void or when they fall through them or through the floor. You don't realise how often it happens until you've got Animal Instinct on, but vacuum lets you get all those resources and mods. Edited October 4, 2015 by xveganrox

[ashrah]

carrier is great other sentinels need masiv buff to be in class of carrier

[Bobtm]

I'm one of those players who doens't utilize Vacuum-pear, aka Carrier at all.  Beyond that I absolutely don't want a larger pickup radius, as such a thing incurs some disadvantages which aren't outweighed by the benefits for me personally.  I'd much prefer the noteworthy gains posed by other Sentinels (Shade is my goto) rather than having Energy orbs, HP orbs, and ammo drops get needlessly wasted.  Of course that's not to say those who desire a larger radius are wrong or bad, such things differ based on preferred playstyles.  For me Carrier is a disadvantage across the board compared to Shade.

 

That said at the same time I can still understand why other players prefer having such a precept available to them.  However at the same time it's a tricky situation with the whole thing of taking away Carrier's identity.  Seeing as we have an Exilus slot now, this could be a potential advance for those so inclined.  Having a mod which increases a Frame's pickup radius by an amount close to the range of Carrier (cannot stack on what Carrier does) would allow a choice to players.

 

Those who wish to utilize Carrier could continue to do so and use something else in their Exilus slot.  Players who want a different companion but want a larger pickup radius could utilize said hypothetical mod in their Exilus or other slot.  While players such as myself could utilize our preferred companion and whatever mod we desire in our Exilus slot.  Everyone gets additional choice due to having two possible venues to achieve a potentially desired goal.  Basically a win-win situation.

 

carrier is great other sentinels need masiv buff to be in class of carrier

 

Now while I can understand that you and many others effectively worship Carrier, saying things like this simply isn't true.  Ever walked literally right through a massive crowd of super dangerous high level enemies without using any frame abilities to subdue them and revive an ally?  Carrier sure as hek can't allow you to do something of that nature.  This isn't to say all sentinels are fine of course, as Dethcube is basically pointless to bring along due to his traits, but Shade/Helios/Djinn/Wyrm all have benefits which are worthwhile.

 

Carrier is by no means objectively superiour to other sentinels, and anyone trying to claim such is fooling themselves.  Beyond this if those who enjoy Carrier this much truely believed that the other Sentinels' abilities weren't of value, they wouldn't press to have Vacuum as a universal precept.  The fact that such a stance exists proves that players see value in other Sentinels, but can't move away from the habbits they've gained utilizing Carrier.  Such doesn't make them poor players of course or anything like that, everyone develops certain play habbits over time.  While breaking those habbits can be irritating, it is possible however.

 

It boils down to this, Carrier's ability is merely well liked due to the benefits it provides, that's all and nothing more.  Vacuum isn't and never will be "mandatory" nor will it ever be the objectively best companion trait.  However it seems cemented in place as the most popular companion trait, and there's nothing wrong with that.

[TARINunit9]

Can someone explain to me what is so good about Vacuum? OK, I admit I haven't built my Carrier, but just the description sounds blah to me. "It can pick up mods and energy". Oh, gee, that's neat. I can do that too just by walking slightly out of my way. Seriously, the range is 12m. 12m is barely anything

[Tesseract7777]

-snip-

 

Really good post. I wish I could +1 it more than once. 

[Elenortirie]

as for me they should give vacuum universal percept and make carrier actually a carrier......

[zz_tophat]

Can someone explain to me what is so good about Vacuum? OK, I admit I haven't built my Carrier, but just the description sounds blah to me. "It can pick up mods and energy". Oh, gee, that's neat. I can do that too just by walking slightly out of my way. Seriously, the range is 12m. 12m is barely anything

 

It's the difference between running down a hallway and zigzagging everywhere you go to get all the loot drops (also you miss some anyway because they fall in places you don't see or just inside level geometry).

 

Carrier also picks up items through the floor a good distance, so if you ever do Draco you'll never have to drop in to the lower area because running across the catwalks will scoop all the loot that drops down there.

 

Having carrier means that a player can jet around an area and get everything that dropped in one quick pass without having to worry about missing something AND while barely having to touch the ground in the process.

 

 

A lot of people make claims about how carrier players are lazy (there are so many things wrong with this argument that I don't even...) but the fact is that if two equally skilled players were trying to do the most damage and get the most loot in the same amount of time, the one with the carrier would win on both fronts, because that player would just have to run around and kill things and not focus on anything else. Why was Mag's gpull nerfed? It wasn't just mesa, it was because the ability to just focus on killing and ignore looting is really, really strong because loot is not just stuff, it's ammo and energy (most of the players I see going down in T4s are players that are out getting loot, carriers save time while doing that and thus, save players).

 

 

 

EDIT: ugh, already regretting making this post *bracing for "you're bad and carriers are lazy" posts*

Edited October 4, 2015 by zz_tophat

[TARINunit9]

(also you miss some anyway because they fall in places you don't see or just inside level geometry).

OK, that kind of peace-of-mind, that I can understand

[Tesseract7777]

EDIT: ugh, already regretting making this post *bracing for "you're bad and carriers are lazy" posts*

 

Those posts are as absurd as the people who call others bad for not using Carrier. 

 

It's all a preference. And admittedly (which shows the hypocrisy), a good portion of the people who claim too many people use Carrier, themselves use Helios for a very, very similar reason (qol on getting scans lol). 

[PickleMonster21]

I don't know about anyone else here, but I don't find Vacuum essential to collecting loot. I can confidentially say this because over the past two days, I've:

1) I've leveled Equinox to level 30 without using Carrier (or any Companion, for that matter) and collected significant amount of loot and credits
2) I've leveled Syonoid Simulor to level 30 without using a Companion and " " " " " " "
3) " " Telos Boltor " " " " " " " " " " " " " "
4) " " Snipetron " " " " " " " " " " " " " "
5) I've leveled a second Nekros to level 30 (simply because Polarity clashed for a build I wanna test out) without the use of a companion
6) I've done Void Sabotages and Mobile Defenses and I didn't feel like I missed out on many Control Modules. Found like 5 Argon Crystals.

Vacuum is NOT ESSENTIAL to Warframe. It's simply laziness, and everyone's just become dependent on Carrier's Vacuum,

[Gladeus-Ex-Machina]

It's not so much Vacuum hate, but Vacuum... envy.

[(XBOX)ChantingSheep]

-snip-

*Applause*

[MaverickZero]

The issue I have with other sentinels is the ridiculous cooldown on their abilities (except Helios/Diriga). A single 10m AoE knockdown every 15 seconds is not worthwhile for my playstyle. A single Vaporize every 30 seconds is complete garbage for my playstyle.

 

The only sentinels that can keep up with me are Helios, Diriga and Carrier.

 

Kubrow AI is mentally challenged. Their weak (relative to Primary/Secondary weapons) single target attacks are worthless and provide no real CC solutions.

 

Huras and Raksa are useful because their abilities ignore the terrible AI and basically stealth cloak you and regen your shields all the time.

 

There's 5 meaningful options for my playstyle, 

[(PSN)Xewkeryx]

'Cause there's never a point in the game where you aren't collecting loot

 

Might as well make an inherent loot magnet for all tenno, give Carrier something actually interesting, and be done with it already

[Hypernaut1]

I only use Carrier if I'm farming neurodes or neurosensors.

Other than that, this game is NOT about collecting loot. At a certain point, a player will have more than enough of anything that can possibly drop. A vet player is most likely playing to level items or for reward at mission end screen.

Hp and energy is useful, but when they are droping plentifully, its because im mowing down mobs anyway. I rarely run out of ammo, and if im doing an extra long survival or defense- mobs dont die fast enough for Carrier to make that big of a difference, my Huras is more useful. When the game geta hard enough, I rely on restores more than random drops.

Carrier is a choice. It is not necessary. There are much better and practical options for vet players.

Edited October 4, 2015 by Hypernaut1

[Barkano]

Players are placing WAY too much importance on Vacuum and pretending that it's such an essential mandatory mechanic to have. I've been playing this game on and off for 2 years or so now and only use Carrier on my Nekros, who I don't play that much either.  I have no problems picking up stuff myself so the claims that it's too difficult to do or that you'll miss essential drops is bogus. Is it easier with Vacuum? Of course, but it's not so essential that we need it on all frames and sentinels.  It annoys me to see people keep saying how it's so mandatory when I know there are plenty of people like me who don't even use it.

you are the exception not the rule...

[Bobtm]

you are the exception not the rule...

 

And what, pray tell, is this supposed rule?  That Carrier is somehow (a laughable notion) a requirement to properly play Warframe?

 

I get it that folks like Carrier, and there's nothing at all wrong with such a thing.  But like I said in my previous post, he's not objectively the most potent companion by any stretch of the imagination.  Folks prefer Carrier because he provides a service which they rather enjoy, and that's all.  Not every player is going to desire such a service, and thusly they will utilize other Sentinels.

 

There's nothing wrong and there never will be anything wrong with preferring Carrier more than other companions.  However by the inverse it's always wrong to pretend that Carrier is hands down the best or required.  Because that's blatantly false.

[Tesseract7777]

Exactly. Favorite utility =/= best utility. 

 

I wish everyone would stop worrying so much about everyone else's choices. Live and let play I say. 

 

Someone could be using a very unorthodox setup that may not look like it would work to me, but for their playstyle it works fine and they do great. I always look at people's loadouts out of curiosity whether it's public or arranged, but I never say anything. I just observe. And what I've learned over time is that just because a setup seems like it wouldn't work to me (and might not fit my playstyle) doesn't mean it won't work great for someone else and their playstyle. 

 

As for carrier's vacuum being universal? They would need to rework Carrier so he'd still be special in some way. I think in a recent devstream they said they didn't want to do it because it was what made carrier carrier, but they can change their minds too. The thing is if this were done, Carrier would really need something special so he isn't relegated to the dustbin. Maybe an overcarry function of some sort, I don't know. 

[(PSN)AllOrNothinDays]

Now, the title may be misleading but I couldn't come up with anything better, so just deal with it.

I was watching a video like 30 seconds ago, and they said that they that "Where's our variety in companions? Kubrows are a huge letdown when you put them up against the power of the Vacuum. Why not give all companions the ability to Vacuum stuff up?"

Now, I understand where he's coming from, but... then you need to completely re-work the Carrier (Prime), as that is literally the only thing that separates it from the rest of the Sentinels. Like, if you say "Why not give all companions the ability to vacuum stuff up", then why not give all companions the ability to knock everything down within a certain radius? Why not give all companions the ability to turn you invisible when you're near an enemy? Like, come on. If you want to use something else, then get used to running over and picking stuff up.

Agreed. I think the only thing they should do is look at the other sentinels and either buff or fix their abilities to make them more worthwhile and stop trying to make one sentinel worthless because you want them all to share the same ability. 

[(PSN)DesecratedFlame]

Casuals want everything to function the same. Casuals don't want to use carrier because "this other thing looks cooler," but at the same time, they can't stand someone else doing better than them because the other person used optimized gear (like Carrier Prime).

[EetNotErn]

you are the exception not the rule...

 

 

I never claimed that my stance was in the majority. You completely missed the point. I'm saying that the fact that there ARE exceptions to the rule means that it's not mandatory or necessary at all to have vaccuum on all the sentinels. Just because something is popular does not mean it's a necessity. Most people in this country drink soda but it doesn't mean it's essential nor good for you.