I Disagree With The Recent Changes/"nerfs" De Has Been Doing

[crimsonspartan1]

de has been nerfing quite alot of stuff these days. mag's pull being able to only pull enemies on screen, only 2 of mirage's clones being able to shoot, etc. (i can list alot more then those 2). when will de find a different solution to things instead of nerfing...

 

cus right now, de is killing alot of things (and by things i ment frames / weapons / etc)

 

edit: while i know de is only trying to balance things, most of these nerfs are just plain stupid and over the top and sometimes they even nerf things that have already been nerfed (mag's pull for example)

Edited October 3, 2015 by crimsonspartan1

[Acos]

lol de shul jus buff every 1 

[Kaotyke]

Your thread's title has "Oh Boy" so:

 

[DeMonkey]

Oh boy, another "I don't understand balance so I clearly can do DE's job better" threads.

[crimsonspartan1]

Your thread's title has "Oh Boy" so:

 

pretty much (i have a habit of saying pretty much XD)

[LordBeeBrain]

Inb4 lock

[Lhudge]

They said in the patch note that the clones deal 2x damage, it is just a change for your pc performances

[Mac2492]

They said in the patch note that the clones deal 2x damage, it is just a change for your pc performances

It's a little more complicated than that. You'll deal more damage in the instances where the second two clones would normally miss, but equal/less damage in the cases they would normally hit. Anything that does doesn't scale with increased damage takes a hit.

 

This is also a straight nerf to a few things:

non-damaging status procs (- at least 4 potential chances to proc)

Thunderbolt (-40% effectiveness)

Concealed Explosives (-40% effectiveness)

Combustion Beam (debatable)

 

For everything else it's simply different. You lose coverage area in return for more reliable damage from the two clones. To be honest, I think this change is a bit poorly thought out. The main use of the skill isn't just the damage, but also the ability to blanket a large area with explosives/projectiles. Although this change compensates the loss of area with damage, I do not believe simply doubling the damage is enough to compensate for the loss of coverage. It feels like they only looked at the stats without fully realizing how the skill is used in practice. The net difference is not that huge, but it does feel like they inadvertently cut the skill's performance with this change.

 

I'm normally on DE's side, but in this case I think they missed the mark. or two clones just didn't shoot at it.

[MagPrime]

Pull was not nerfed, Greedy Pull was nerfed.

 

There's more to Mag than loot gatherer, one of her augments getting changed doesn't make her 'dead'

[Mac2492]

Pull was not nerfed, Greedy Pull was nerfed.

 

There's more to Mag than loot gatherer, one of her augments getting changed doesn't make her 'dead'

Pull was nerfed (17.5 Patch Notes). It can no longer pull through walls and doors.

 

Not supporting OP, btw. While I disagree with these two nerfs in particular, I don't find the fear mongering to be beneficial.

[MagPrime]

Pull was nerfed (17.5 Patch Notes). It can no longer pull through walls and doors.

 

Not supporting OP, btw. While I disagree with these two nerfs in particular, I don't find the fear mongering to be beneficial.

I've been playing Mag for a long time and I've never Pulled an enemy through a wall.  Greedy Pull is the only ability that pulled loot through walls (besides Carrier/Prime)

 

Thanks for the clarification though, was looking for that post.

[(PSN)MoRockaPDX]

Pull was not nerfed, Greedy Pull was nerfed.

There's more to Mag than loot gatherer, one of her augments getting changed doesn't make her 'dead'

^this

There is more to Warframe than min/max'n farming and trying to become the most efficient robot at aggravating virtual resources. For some people it's about having fun. In that sense a perfectly good mod got ruined by elements of the community.

Edited October 3, 2015 by (PS4)MoRockaPDX

[NovusNova]

Removed offensive responses.

 

Just because you disagree with the poster opinion doesn't give anyone the right to start dishing out insults or offensive messages.

 

Remember to stay on topic and give a valid reason why you disagree with OP.

[(PSN)FriendSharkey]

I'm more concerned with syndicate mods just being made into worthless tokens. For all the effort it takes to gather sacrifices, caps on standing, nerfs, and enduring assassin squads ...syndicates sorta suck.

[makaloff95]

Pull was not nerfed, Greedy Pull was nerfed.

There's more to Mag than loot gatherer, one of her augments getting changed doesn't make her 'dead'

Indeed but it seems like people discovered when Gpull was a thing. Mag was my first warframe, and i still play her from time to time ( allthought ive been busy now with mirage and valkyr)

Ontopic: what DE is doing is balance, balance is nessecery for all games, despite you like it or not. I just hope to see a nerf coming towards bombards, they are ridicoulus atm, same with Ancient Healer

[(PSN)PillarOfWar]

Did greedy pull need the loot X-ray nerf though. Carrier can suck stuff from behind walls and that's nice for void runs

[LunarTemplar]

It also said in the same patch notes that Mirages clones where buffed to there's no loss in damage output. Hall of Mirrors wasn't Nerfed it was changed for performance reasons.

[(PSN)MoRockaPDX]

It also said in the same patch notes that Mirages clones where buffed to there's no loss in damage output. Hall of Mirrors wasn't Nerfed it was changed for performance reasons.

This pretty much. To expand a little, if you miss the aesthetic of having four clones, I can understand that, but if you think your loosing out on combat effectiveness, it is marginal at best. And I mean that is accounting for number of projectiles and points of contact over a radius for sustained DPS. it just doesn't add up to enough to matter. The four clones may comeback if it can be optimized.

[Kaisty]

When I read the title, the only thing that popped into my mind was "Nerfclear launch detected" with a little red dot showing up on the f of Warframe. (sorry, I got Starcraft on the brain)?

 

But in regards to the OP, DE is trying to balance the game as best they can...... which depending on whom you asked is either good or an atrocity. I can understand fixes that are in place so multiple types of computers are able to play without others lagging or crashing them by ability or weapon spam. I can also understand fixes if they are trying to make it so people don't keep relying on one certain style in order to get ahead and hopefully they think outside of the box.

 

While Mirage's clones may do double damage, like the other posters have said it does mess with folks who use all four clones to add in the increase of status procs in an area. Unless DE deicdes to make it where besides double damage said clones should twice as many rounds with double the proc rate, some folks are hoping they will optimize it soon so they can get back to their Mirage swarm of death.

[Eptos]

Nerf all damage by one half.

[VCaptiion]

When I read the title, the only thing that popped into my mind was "Nerfclear launch detected" with a little red dot showing up on the f of Warframe. (sorry, I got Starcraft on the brain)?

 

But in regards to the OP, DE is trying to balance the game as best they can...... which depending on whom you asked is either good or an atrocity. I can understand fixes that are in place so multiple types of computers are able to play without others lagging or crashing them by ability or weapon spam. I can also understand fixes if they are trying to make it so people don't keep relying on one certain style in order to get ahead and hopefully they think outside of the box.

 

While Mirage's clones may do double damage, like the other posters have said it does mess with folks who use all four clones to add in the increase of status procs in an area. Unless DE deicdes to make it where besides double damage said clones should twice as many rounds with double the proc rate, some folks are hoping they will optimize it soon so they can get back to their Mirage swarm of death.

Balance what? You don't even have a good example.

Loki invis god mode is still there, switch teleport troll is still there.

Valkyr already has a god mode and she got 2 skill serious buffed at once recently.

Frost got buffed while Limbo is still being hated.

Bombard missile still tracking you and they have 0.5s reload on their heavy weapon.

Ballista still sniping you while running.

Scorch Osprey still have unlimited stack bomb on your teammate's corpse.

Nullifier got buffed along with more annoying Corpus enemies added.

Ancient's disgusting ripline and Toxic/Fire aura are still hitting you in all direction.

Boltor Prime still available for noobs doing brainless shooting.

Latron and bows still garbage against nullifiers.

Reduced grind is still a lie while more RNG/Argon required for crafting.

Hydroid and many more frames are still in garbage-tier and now Mag is becoming one of them.

Mirage got "balanced" because of performance issue but new void map gives you more framerate drop.

Description of charger "weak claw" is still there while liset capacity was changed to 3x in a short time.

Updates and hotfixes still have stealth and ambiguous changes, players still have to fully rely on wiki for information.

 

The problem is why DE nerf things in priority which they didn't even harm the game, when there's far more important issues left unfixed (like the bug existed for 2 years huh?).

OR YOU JUST USE YOUR FAVORITE LOKI MASTERRACE ALL THE TIME SO THE NERF NEVER AFFECT YOU?

DE still got 3 month of stated "Year of quality". Better defend them more and one day DE would make you unable to shoot or move. IMO obviously DE didn't learn anything from vivergate.

Edited October 4, 2015 by VCaptiion

[(PSN)MoRockaPDX]

Balance what? You don't even have a good example.

Loki invis god mode is still there, switch teleport troll is still there.

Valkyr already has a god mode and she got 2 skill serious buffed at once recently.

Bombard missile still tracking you. Ballista still sniping you. Scorch Osprey still have unlimited stack bomb on your teammate's corpse.

Nullifier got buffed along with more annoying Corpus enemies added. Ancient's disgusting Toxic/Fire aura are still hitting you in all direction.

Boltor Prime still available for noobs doing brainless shooting. Latron and bows still garbage against nullifiers.

Reduce grinding is still a joke. Hydroid and many more frames are still in garbage-tier and now Mag is becoming one of them.

 

OR YOU JUST USE YOUR FAVORITE LOKI MASTERRACE ALL THE TIME SO THE NERF NEVER AFFECT YOU?

DE still got 3 month of stated "Year of quality". Better defending them more and one day will DE make you unable to shoot or move.

 

Loki invis god mode is still there, switch teleport troll is still there.

Maybe, maybe have a point with invisibility. ST troll is irrelevant.

 

Valkyr already has a god mode and she got 2 skill serious buffed at once recently.

Its not permanent, and recently damage mitigation was capped at 95%, unless I heard wrong. I presume this effects Hysteria.

 

 

Bombard missile still tracking you. Ballista still sniping you. Scorch Osprey still have unlimited stack bomb on your teammate's corpse.

Ok. I do think it should be a little easier to shoot down the missiles, but otherwise they are missiles. Scorch Ospreys are jerks.

 

 

Nullifier got buffed along with more annoying Corpus enemies added. Ancient's disgusting Toxic/Fire aura are still hitting you in all direction.

I'm actually fine with this.

 

 

Boltor Prime still available for noobs doing brainless shooting. Latron and bows still garbage against nullifiers.

Mastery rank is getting reworked.

 

 

 

Reduce grinding is still a joke. Hydroid and many more frames are still in garbage-tier and now Mag is becoming one of them.

Wrong, Hydroid is not garbage and neither is Mag. 

[Kastorius]

I didn't believe for one nanosecond that the change to Hall of Mirrors was made because of "performance issues." Mirage has been available for well over a year, and in that time, people's PCs have gotten slightly better on average, not worse. Why now?

 

I built a new PC for myself a month ago. I played Mirage plenty on the old PC (which was built in 2011; upgraded to a GTX 780 in 2013, about two and a half years ago), and never experienced any issues, even with two or three Mirages on one team. I've never seen nor heard anyone complain about Mirage.

 

An earlier poster already covered some of the many ways in which this change is a net nerf for Mirage. There are others he didn't cover. A nerf is one thing, but lying about it is another thing entirely. It's insulting and annoying. "Fixed a bug/performance issue" isn't a good way to hide nerfs.

 

I may groan about nerfs when they happen, but being lied to will drive me away from the game if DE keeps at it.

Edited October 4, 2015 by Kastorius

[(PSN)MoRockaPDX]

I didn't believe for one nanosecond that the change to Hall of Mirrors was made because of "performance issues." Mirage has been available for well over a year, and in that time, people's PCs have gotten slightly better on average, not worse. Why now?

 

I built a new PC for myself a month ago. I played Mirage plenty on the old PC (which was built in 2011; upgraded to a GTX 780 in 2013, about two and a half years ago), and never experienced any issues, even with two or three Mirages on one team. I've never seen nor heard anyone complain about Mirage.

 

An earlier poster already covered the many ways in which this change is a net nerf for Mirage. A nerf is one thing, but lying about it is another thing entirely. It's insulting and annoying. "Fixed a bug/performance issue" isn't a good way to hide nerfs.

 

I may groan about nerfs when they happen, but being lied to will drive me away from the game.

So, you don't play with mirage then? People with perfectly average computers, that have 0 problem through the majority of game will tell you that Mirage tanks performance. On Console its a given, and the game usually runs like butter. When DE can optimize HoM the extra clones will come back. in the meantime the two do double damage. Spams walls and extra arcane proc chances are not compelling enough reasons to lower the performance so many people systems. HoM tanks performance. Not controversial, it is a fact. Addressing the problem with a reduction of clones is not lying. What reason would DE have to lie, what possible advantage to they get for making a nerf that doesn't serve a purpose? I know the salt taste good, but stahp.

[-LR-Aeriion]

Just so you guys know.... if you ever ran with Mirage atomos, the 4 clones ended up leaving trace beams of fire and arcs all over the place. These graphical effects that also added audio cause performance issue as it is residual and stacking. That is what the clone consolidation helps with. Mirage Amprex with electric arcs everywhere cease to exist anymore because of it. TY DE for fixing that lobby issue ;)