Remove Extra Ammo Consumption On The Kohm!

[owendawgx]

If the Multishot changes are to go through, this would make the Kohm and its secondary counterpart (Kohmak) completely unusable. Even in their current state, the ammo consumption is ridiculous. An incredibly interesting mechanic is held back by a pointless restriction, and should not even exist, since it:

1. Limits Modding Versatility

2. Makes the weapons nearly unusable, even WITH proper ammo conservation taken into account when modding. 

3. Discourages the usage of an otherwise unique and interesting mechanic.

Even if the Multishot changes do not go through, the Kohm/ak should not have this restriction, as it honestly makes them nearly unusable as it is. Personally, I cannot say much on the Kohmak, as I do not have primed pistol mutation, but a fully Forma Kohm still having ammo issues is ridiculous, and severely hampers its potential, and if the Kohm were changed to always consume one ammo, it would make sense to have the Kohmak follow suit. 

Edited October 7, 2015 by owendawgx

[Stratego89]

You seem to be behind in the news. Multishot change was dropped- they're working on a complete Damage 3.0 rework instead.

 

Also, this is a feature of the kohm. It's already very powerful if the ammo consumption increase were removed it'd make it OP (again). Learn trigger discipline and don't spray everywhere, and/or put on an ammo mutation mod.

Edited October 7, 2015 by Stratego89

[owendawgx]

You seem to be behind in the news. Multishot change was dropped- they're working on a complete Damage 3.0 rework instead.

 

Also, this is a feature of the kohm. It's already very powerful if the ammo consumption increase were removed it'd make it OP (again). Learn trigger discipline and don't spray everywhere, and/or put on an ammo mutation mod.

Fully ranked ammo mutation is not enough in long-lasting missions, since firerate mods are a complete necessity as well. Even without Multishot, it is ridiculous. And i'm sorry but with a spread like that, every shot after the first is "spray and pray", since you're practically never going to be hitting all the pellets anyways. And the damage is not near enough to make it OP, since its recent nerfs.

[Stratego89]

Fully ranked ammo mutation is not enough in long-lasting missions, since firerate mods are a complete necessity as well. Even without Multishot, it is ridiculous. And i'm sorry but with a spread like that, every shot after the first is "spray and pray", since you're practically never going to be hitting all the pellets anyways. And the damage is not near enough to make it OP, since its recent nerfs.

Use your secondary. Use your melee. Throw down an ammo pad. These things exist to be used- not ignored. My opinion is that you SHOULD run out of ammo in the game eventually- even with ammo mutation. This opinion applies to both primaries and secondaries, all weapon types. Having to occasionally swap to your sidearm or trusty blade is good. It adds flavor and variation to the game. 

 

You put the two complaints of "lose too much ammo fast" and "Spread is too wide" together. There is a SINGLE mod that fixes BOTH of those problems at once. Tainted Shell. If you're not one of those people that can't look past pure DPS and are smart about how they mod, and can do something besides the "meta"- you'd use this mod to solve your problem instead of complaining on forums to buff the weapon when it doesn't need it.

 

Oh- and I didn't say Kohm was OP. I said it's powerful already- and your suggestion would MAKE it OP.

Edited October 7, 2015 by Stratego89

[BluelitHalo]

Not sure how you're using the Kohm, but I haven't had any dire ammo issues with it.

Edited October 7, 2015 by AzureEmulation

[low1991]

Use your secondary. Use your melee. Throw down an ammo pad. These things exist to be used- not ignored. 

Oh- and I didn't say Kohm was OP. I said it's powerful already- and your suggestion would MAKE it OP.

-Something exist doesn't mean you have to use them.

-Kohm OP?! Hah!, it's OP when contently fire close range. Long range, pray harder, cuz damage fall off.

How does reducing ammo consumption has any effect to paper theories? It's like a longer Useful Life.

[Stratego89]

-Something exist doesn't mean you have to use them.

-Kohm OP?! Hah!, it's OP when contently fire close range. Long range, pray harder, cuz damage fall off.

How does reducing ammo consumption has any effect to paper theories? It's like a longer Useful Life.

-One word, Serration.

 

-What part of "YOUR SUGGESTION would make kohm OP" in my reply to that person don't you understand?

 

-That last part doesn't even make a single bit of sense, I literally cannot even figure out what you were attempting to say...

[low1991]

-One word, Serration.

 

-What part of "YOUR SUGGESTION would make kohm OP" in my reply to that person don't you understand?

 

-That last part doesn't even make a single bit of sense, I literally cannot even figure out what you were attempting to say...

-My CC weapon (Amprex) dont use Serration or HC.

-My Bad, somehow mis-read

-Longer useful life... Weapon' DPS or damage length in combat. Oh wait, i forgot, paper theory is more practicable then proper strategy. And Making a weapon' combat time longer is one.

[KnightCole]

You seem to be behind in the news. Multishot change was dropped- they're working on a complete Damage 3.0 rework instead.

 

Also, this is a feature of the kohm. It's already very powerful if the ammo consumption increase were removed it'd make it OP (again). Learn trigger discipline and don't spray everywhere, and/or put on an ammo mutation mod.

 

Dmg 3.0!?  Oh boy.

[Enchillado]

Pssst, hey kid. Have you heard of ammo mutators? Want some?

 

Jokes aside, I've happened to try 3 forma Kohm at the T4 Survival yesterday and had no problems. Actually, both ammo consumption and DPS were impressive.

Edited October 7, 2015 by Enchillado

[Stratego89]

-My CC weapon (Amprex) dont use Serration or HC.

-My Bad, somehow mis-read

-Longer useful life... Weapon' DPS or damage length in combat. Oh wait, i forgot, paper theory is more practicable then proper strategy. And Making a weapon' combat time longer is one.

-How does that thing even do damage...

-Np.

-Stats mean nothing. Ok- they mean SOMETHING, but not everything. There is a lot that stats don't tell you, such as flight speed of a projectile. That being said- I still don't understand why are are bringing up "paper theory vs application" when that isn't what any of this is about. Kohm is fine with ammo mutation mods on- this is a fact as long as you don't spray like a blind man in hopes of hitting the monster coming at you. My point is sound, and has nothing to do with "paper vs application". EDIT: If your whole point here is "putting on ammo mutation = taking off a mod that adds damage which lets you kill higher level stuff = staying longer in game", then you're the one that needs to look past numbers (paper theory). In true gameplay, it doesn't matter how strong your godkiller is if it runs out of bullets.

Edited October 7, 2015 by Stratego89

[Eftycchia]

Just when you thought Kohm needs a buff, it kills Juggernaut even without the weakspots.

2 Forma.

Your usual status+firerate build, this time totally using Primed Point Blank because CC.

[low1991]

-How does that thing even do damage...

-Np.

-Stats mean nothing. Ok- they mean SOMETHING, but not everything. There is a lot that stats don't tell you, such as flight speed of a projectile. That being said- I still don't understand why are are bringing up "paper theory vs application" when that isn't what any of this is about. Kohm is fine with ammo mutation mods on- this is a fact as long as you don't spray like a blind man in hopes of hitting the monster coming at you. My point is sound, and has nothing to do with "paper vs application". EDIT: If your whole point here is "putting on ammo mutation = taking off a mod that adds damage which lets you kill higher level stuff = staying longer in game", then you're the one that needs to look past numbers (paper theory). In true gameplay, it doesn't matter how strong your godkiller is if it runs out of bullets.

-Amprex build for CC. (2 free slot since no Serration & HC)

-I support OP' on removing the extra ammo consumption cuz. 1) the rest of the shotgun use 1 ammo per shot. 2) Even with Ammo mutation, at some point you run out of ammo. Even if you try to full blast at close range to prevent damage falloff. Removing this or maybe some ammo consumption will lengthen it's useful life in any game mode. It's like the main advantage is when Kohm is on full RoF, but higher RoF means more ammo consumption, might as well ask DE to remove the full blast mode (4 to 8 ammo per shot mode). In conclusion, the advantage or the feature of kohm doesn't actually exist in the first place.

[The_Mustachio]

Use your secondary. Use your melee. Throw down an ammo pad. These things exist to be used- not ignored. 

 

This is a fact, not an opinion. I'm recently new to Warframe and PC gaming. I've been converted from a console fanboy. With that said, I've noticed a lot of people having issues with ammo. Almost to the point of them refusing to switch weapons.

 

In my experience with other games, say Destiny, we would always make sure our loadout would synergize. Primary's and secondary's working in concert. If your building towards a run-an-gun primary, your secondary should match. Going to sit back and snipe? Make sure you have a long range secondary.

 

Finally, we always had ammo refills!!

[ashrah]

wen  u doing long rauns take shotgun scavenger and ammo mutation i grant u u will always have enough ammo i did t4suv solo with boar p 50min.... and we knows all how boar burns ammo......if not controlled..

[Pridesfury]

Fully ranked ammo mutation is not enough in long-lasting missions, since firerate mods are a complete necessity as well. Even without Multishot, it is ridiculous. And i'm sorry but with a spread like that, every shot after the first is "spray and pray", since you're practically never going to be hitting all the pellets anyways. And the damage is not near enough to make it OP, since its recent nerfs.

here is an idea stop using the warframe builder builds they are horrible absolutely horrible high dps does not make a build good what makes it good is sustainable dps over a long period of time and high damage per shot. can brakk achieve over 100k burst dps on paper? absolutely would any intelligent player make a brakk that exists to trigger spam? not in million  years smart players aim for the one shot KO not the waste 30 rounds per target to kill them just as quickly as a one shot KO

[Stratego89]

-Amprex build for CC. (2 free slot since no Serration & HC)

-I support OP' on removing the extra ammo consumption cuz. 1) the rest of the shotgun use 1 ammo per shot. 2) Even with Ammo mutation, at some point you run out of ammo. Even if you try to full blast at close range to prevent damage falloff. Removing this or maybe some ammo consumption will lengthen it's useful life in any game mode. It's like the main advantage is when Kohm is on full RoF, but higher RoF means more ammo consumption, might as well ask DE to remove the full blast mode (4 to 8 ammo per shot mode). In conclusion, the advantage or the feature of kohm doesn't actually exist in the first place.

- Amprex build for CC just hurts my brain so bad, if you have 2 free slots- why the heck would you not throw on serration... that makes no sense- but w/e.

-1. Yes- but the WHOLE REASON that kohm consumes 1 more with every shot is because it's LITERALLY shooting 1 more per shot. It doesn't "start off with a fraction of it's listed damage and build up to full consuming more ammo", it STARTS with it's listed damage, then doubles, then becomes triple. It's INSANELY powerful. 2. No- you REALLY don't. Not if you're using it skillfully instead of spray and pray. Stop using the term "useful life" please. You literally just want them to change this so you can throw on another damage mod to make the weapon OP and continue later in game without having to worry about ammo. AMMO SHOULD BE SOMETHING YOU HAVE TO WORRY ABOUT. Kohm is FINE. If you don't like it- you can just not use it. Taking off the extra ammo consumption would make it overpowered. This is not an opinion- this is a FACT. If they DO nerf the ammo consumption, I GUARANTEE you they will nerf the damage into oblivion to compensate, and they all you'll have accomplished is getting the kohm ruined for everyone.

[(XBOX)DaBoogieMan2741]

not sure if other people do this but my kohm has all 4 status mods, incediary coat, blaze, ammo mutation, point blank. shotgun spazz.

i dont use multishot and treat mine like a semi to auto rifle... single trigger pull for low armor enemies and full auto on things like bombards or ancients... 

[taiiat]

the increased Ammunition Usage is what keeps Kohm from being ridiculously Overpowered.

 

Kohm is the second most powerful Weapon in the game, only second to Vaykor Hek.

i might prefer Kohm version 3, of 5 Pellets and high Damage per Pellet to use it like a really awesome Autocannon - but i recognize Kohm's extreme power even if it is super bland to use now.

 

 

Edit:

my kohm has all 4 status mods, incediary coat, blaze, ammo mutation, point blank. shotgun spazz.

that's... 9 Mods.

Edited October 8, 2015 by taiiat

[(XBOX)DaBoogieMan2741]

 

the increased Ammunition Usage is what keeps Kohm from being ridiculously Overpowered.

 

Kohm is the second most powerful Weapon in the game, only second to Vaykor Hek.

i might prefer Kohm version 3, of 5 Pellets and high Damage per Pellet to use it like a really awesome Autocannon - but i recognize Kohm's extreme power even if it is super bland to use now.

 

 

Edit:

that's... 9 Mods.

 

oops lol sorry take out incendiary coat xp... was thinking of a different thing

[(PSN)Lord_Gremlin]

Leave it as is, just bloody make it back into the original weapon, as in slow travelling ricocheting projectiles. 

[(XBOX)DaBoogieMan2741]

i would like more shiny sparks tho... dont mind the damage so much atm but when using with chroma want to see more sparks