Trinity Overhaul (If I Were God-Emperor For A Day)

[[DE]Momaw]

Right at the outset I expect few people will agree with me, but, Trinity pretty much breaks the game. She is alternatively responsible for breaking the energy economy so hard that players do not even realize energy is supposed to be a tactical concern, and breaks combat so hard that entire teams become functionally invulnerable while having full use of all their capabilities.

 

So.

 

For the good of the game as a whole, in the interest of making Trinity more interesting, more interactive, less reliant on gimmicks, and less blatantly game breaking:  Rework everything.

 

1.)  Well of Life

Why it's bad:
The health restored per player is capped, players must actively engage the helpless (harmless) enemy instead of active enemies to get it, and ultimately in every situation where Trinity would want to heal people Blessing just works better.

Rework:
Players standing within range of the Well of Life victim gain a small amount (like 1%) of life leech to their weapon-based attacks, restoring HP while they shoot/stab any enemies; not only the Well of Life victim. Victim is held immobile, airborne, and bright green for easy identification. Leeched health comes from the victim and can ultimately kill it. There is no cap on the amount of health you can leech aside from the victim's endurance.

 

Strength: Life leeched from the victim is multiplied by (300/strength) of whatever the player got i.e., higher power strength means victim lasts longer as a health battery.

Duration: Length of time that victim remains affected by Well of Life.

Range: Players must stand within (15 meters * range) to receive leech effect.

 

Intent is to

* Allow Trinity to create a life leech based "fortified position" that the team can use. Tactical landscaping is fun.

* Give a useful way to heal team without immediately reaching for Blessing

 

 

 

1b.) Pool of Life

Why it's bad:
Health orbs are irrelevant to a frame that can heal everybody. Energy orbs are irrelevant to a frame that can create energy.

Rework:
Gives an ability similar to Quick Thinking to players who are standing within range of the victim. Players can lose HP as normal down to a low threshold, but if an incoming attack would kill them, that damage is instead re-directed to the Well of Life victim. Player is healed and receives damage immunity for 2 seconds (as long as it takes to complete the stagger). The Pool of Life victim is killed in their place.

 

Strength: When Pool of Life triggers, player will receive (50% * strength) of their health back instantly

Duration: As per WOL

Range: As per WOL

 

Intent is to

* Save players from death in situations where enemy presence is overwhelming, by preemptively setting a fallback.

 

 

2.) Energy Vampire

Why it's bad:
Leads to abusive strategies where players exist solely to pump their team with energy, said team being able to benefit from effectively infinite energy without any effort. This leads to a trivialization of the energy economy and ultimately less gameplay because players being supported this way never have to think about the cost of using their powers or whether they can afford to use their most expensive abilities at any given moment.  Also enables goofy level-agnostic script kill capability when used in combination with with Well of Life.

Rework:
On cast, Trinity establishes a link to the target. While in range and target is alive, Trinity can use her abilities for half cost. This is after power efficiency, and it can exceed the normal 75% reduction from power efficiency. Victim is stunned and helpless, and loses 5% of maximum health each second while Trinity is linked to it.  On death, victim drops 3 energy orbs (modified by power strength) which all players can pick up as per normal.

 

Strength: Number of energy orbs dropped by enemy on death is (3*strength). This means with Intensify you get 3.9 (4), with Transient Fortitude you get 4.65 (5), and with both or Blind Rage you get 6.

Duration: Length of time that enemy will remain under energy vampire

Range: Trinity must remain within (20 meters*range) of the victim to receive the benefit of halved casting cost.

 

 

Intent is to

* create an interesting choice of when to kill targets. There's now a benefit for Trinity to NOT killing the vampire victim as fast as possible (but no real punishment if your team does it for you)

* force players to observe energy being available and move to get it rather than receive free energy no matter where or what they are doing, i.e. enhance tactical mobility thought process

* A concern was raised, what does this mean for max energy orbs dropped on map? Wouldn't this "destroy" energy if max orbs is already reached? Yes it would, however, another way to look at this is that you are relocating the forgotten orbs from the other side of the map to immediately next to your team. (shrug)

 

 

2b.) Vampire Leech

Why it's bad:
Actually it isn't. But it would need tweaking to function with revised Energy Vampire

Rework:
On death of Vampire victim, all players within 20 meters recover 150 points of shield, or 25% of their maximum shield strength, whichever is greater. This effect can push over into overshields.

 

Strength: Shield heal is (150 * strength) points,  or (25% * strength) points

Duration: No effect

Range: As per Energy Vampire

 

 

Intent is to

* Replicate functionality of current Vampire Leech

* Buff for players with high shield strength (too many players seem to think shield mod is not worth using!)

 

 

3.) Link

 

Why it's bad:
Leads to abusive strategy where reflected self-damage is used to nuke enemies without really engaging in any gameplay.

Rework:
Does not reflect self-damage to enemies.

 

Strength: No effect. (I like the idea of strength scaling the reflected damage, but that should honestly be an augment. Link is already extremely good)

Duration: Time that Link will remain active and seek targets

Range: Link will consider enemies within (20 meters * range) as targets

 

Intent is to:

* Prevent zero-skill non-LOS self-exploding auto-targeting room-clearing stupidity.

 

 

 

3b.) Abating Link

Why it's bad:
In high level gameplay, teams use corrosive projection, which affects ALL enemies regardless of range or whether they are linked to. As a solo player, due to the non-linear way that armor works, enemies with armor strong enough that you would want to remove it are not going to be affected much by sensible levels of armor reduction, i.e. to actually get any good use out of Abating Link as a solo player you have to min-max with corrupted mods to achieve 100% armor reduction.

Rework:
When Linked victims take damage,  2.5% of that damage (before reduction/modification) is applied to the victim's base armor or shield rating. Target's effective armor and shield from level-scaling are recalculated. E.g. if target has base armor rating of 500 (heavy gunner), and you hit them for 1000 damage, their base armor rating is reduced by 1000*0.025, or 25 points, to 475.

 

Strength: Portion of damage modified to attack on defense is (2.5% * strength)

Duration: As per Link

Range: As per Link

 

 

Intent is to:

* Make more attractive for solo players without access to a full squad worth of corrosive projection, increase usefulness to shielded enemies instead of only armored.

 

 

 

4.) Blessing

Why it's bad:

Because the damage resist value is based on health lost, there is a strong incentive to NOT use this ability until your team takes lots of health damage, which means it is highly risky to as intended in dynamic gameplay. Instead, leads to abusive strategy where Trinity will use self damage from AOE weapons to safely reach minimum health, and supply maximum damage resist to team. The resulting 99%+ damage resist value basically makes gameplay a joke and makes it impossible to properly balance the level of challenge that players are meant to experience because your players could either be invulnerable, or not.

 

Rework:

Damage resist value is based on total of health AND shields lost from most damaged team member, not only health.  Resist value is capped at 75%.  Blessed players immediately restore substantial amounts of health and shield on power use. Blessed players also start to charge 10% of their maximum shield capacity as overshield, each second, so long as they do not take damage. Overshield charge ends for an individual player when that individual takes damage.

 

Strength: Blessed players receive (75% * strength, max 100%) of their maximum shields and health

Duration: Length of time that players have damage reduction and time that they generate overshield out of combat

Range: No effect

 

Intent is to

* prevent players from reaching total immunity

* reduce the attractiveness of abusive self-damage strategies by increasing performance in non-extreme cases

* give a useful purpose for preemptive Blessing rather than being only reactive

 

Edited October 13, 2015 by Momaw

[Vyrn]

All the Flame Repellent in the world can't protect you from what's coming.

 

also +1, tired of invincible+infinite energy

[OfficerBeepsky]

Oh god no. That energy vampire change is the single most terrible thing I have ever seen.

 

1.) Well of life is not recastable, not only that, but it makes killing the enemy it's fired at harder. Being able to recast it, would make the team's life even harder, especially on survivals, because you'd have trololol trinities casting 1, then 2, then spamming 1 at every enemy at sight to massively boost their health pools.

 

3.) Link has a set duration, casting it for half cost is a meaningless change

 

4.) Ult has a duration, being able to recast it for half cost is useless as well.

 

 

Not only that, but your proposed change to link is even worse, because, friendly reminder, self damage is still damage! And you don't regenerate energy from self damage from rage either.

Edited October 10, 2015 by OfficerBeepsky

[Transmorphic_Wyvern]

Needs moar nerfz

[[DE]Momaw]

1.) Well of life is not recastable, not only that, but it makes killing the enemy it's fired at harder. Being able to recast it, would make the team's life even harder, especially on survivals, because you'd have trololol trinities casting 1, then 2, then spamming 1 at every enemy at sight to massively boost their health pools.

 

I never suggested that Well of Life should be recastable on every enemy you see. Being able to recast Well on a *different* target, i.e. only one at a time ever, would be a nice quality of life improvement though I see your point about it being a little annoying for team mates.  What if it simply did not give the victim x10 hitpoints?

[Bouldershoulder]

You are forgetting one important thing, that warframe has essentially become a sort of "Starship troopers" where players have to kill hordes upon hordes of enemies in short amount of time, or fight squadrons multiple times stronger then they are, which makes your proposed changes to reduce the abuse of energy restoration and invulnerability nonsensical.

 

 

 

What if it simply did not give the victim x10 hitpoints?

 

No. It allows Trinity to kill a single target in just 2 casts in 2 seconds, instead of 3 casts in 6 seconds.

Edited October 10, 2015 by Bouldershoulder

[DaganEldr]

If I could give 1k +1, I would. It's well thought out, and a very suitable thought for Trinity.

 

I can see the Trinity players getting upset already.

 

Regardless, I can 100% agree that she shouldn't have total immunity. Nor should Valkyr. Nor should ANY frame. God mode has always been identified as a cheat, and well... A proposed way to fix it for mentioned frame is completely reasonable in my eyes.

 

That, among the other mentioned alterations? Count me in.

Edited October 10, 2015 by DaganEldr

[TotallyLagging]

YOU THINK THAT WILL SAVE YOU FROM OUR FLAMES?

 

BEHOLD, AND DESPAIR

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

... now, on topic. I agree that WoL and EV needs to be changed, and I like that EV idea. Not a fan of that WoL change though. And IMO, Link doesn't need a rework.

 

And all Blessing need is to not count self-damage. Capping it at level 75% won't be all that useful for high levels, as starting from level 60 or so, enemies deal obscene amount of damage ( A level 65 Corpus Tech can kill a 95% DR Shatter Shield Mesa in mere seconds ), and yes, I think 99% DR is completely fair considering that it requires either quick reflex, Quick Thinking, or suicidal party members to actually get that number.

Edited October 10, 2015 by TotallyLagging

[jwya]

1) The concept of life strike is interesting. What if, instead of taking mana from the victim, it takes health from any other target? That way, dps- heavy equips or frames do not hog entire well(s) of life.

2) Im not really supportive of the energy vampire changes, since 3 energy orbs is a really sad amount that almost barely covers the base cost of casting EV itself. In addition, forcing down the amount of energy restored by EV doesnt justify the cost reduction; chances are, regardless of whether the other skill changes u proposed are implemented, Trin isn't going to need to spam skill usage as much as her teammates. And the "free energy from anywhere" was abused in early Draco farms, when 4-spammers couldnt wait to let 1 enemy get near enough for trins to EV without maxing range. But if you change EV as it is, raid missions/ teams are going to have to change a lot, esp with the pads, unless mana pots become the next pre-requisite.

3) Really? Room-clearing? I think it's more efficient to tell that trinitt that shooting the target will be more efficient...

4) Balance-wise, the 99% isnt as abused in late game as you make it sound, since people can just go invis/ staggerlock/ etc. But doesn't the "abusive self-damage" make it more preemptive? Using a team pool also marginalizes caster frames who, since they can take absurd damage relative to themself but barely a tickle to the collective; and you'd want the entire team to be dying collectively before the damage reduction looks tempting.

[ranks21]

I guess you guys had your fill of warframe now and are pretty much done and leaving so why not make suggestions that the devs will hinder to and make the game more unfun for future and present players as much as possible.

 

 remember a few months back  or a year back when you all were in an almost uproar about synergy between frames where is the synergy now especially for the new players?

 

it seems like you just out grew Warframe, and had your fun already and don't want anyone else to have that experience. I suggest brainstorming some more and this time put some synergy with every frame and every type of player in it.

 

lots of the changes made to the game this year alone still didn't make it better or fun but quite the opposite and truly boring as hell.

[DaganEldr]

I guess you guys had your fill of warframe now and are pretty much done and leaving so why not make suggestions that the devs will hinder to and make the game more unfun for future and present players as much as possible.

 

 remember a few months back  or a year back when you all were in an almost uproar about synergy between frames where is the synergy now especially for the new players?

 

it seems like you just out grew Warframe, and had your fun already and don't want anyone else to have that experience. I suggest brainstorming some more and this time put some synergy with every frame and every type of player in it.

 

lots of the changes made to the game this year alone still didn't make it better or fun but quite the opposite and truly boring as hell.

We're not bored with Warframe. There would be no point in coming all the way to the right category and making a detailed post about what should be altered if we were. It TAKES people that have been here a long time (and won't be leaving any time soon) to have the experience enough with play style and frames to be able to see how these kinds of suggestions could be beneficial.

 

We're not trying to make other players miserable. It's just that no frame should have a 1 button kill, or something that almost feels exploit worthy. There's no challenge in that. THAT'S what makes people get bored with a game and leave. Easy buttons that allow them to just sit and do the same thing over and over again, until the repetition of it chews through their skull and drives them nuts. Then they get through things so quickly that they complain there's 'nothing to do' and they leave. Two different perspectives there, if you'll have it accepted as such.

Edited October 11, 2015 by DaganEldr

[YasaiTsume]

Well of Life is sooooo meh :C 

But personally, medic frame should stay medic frame, meaning she only plays around with health. 
How the heck she plays with health, for allies or enemies, gives room for creativity. (Link turned into a vampire drain that leeches health from any enemy linked to her an her allies huehue)

They should give the energy restoring factor to another frame....maybe one that has complete and absolute control of the void energy.

Let's be real, 1 frame that can restore both Health and Energy is gonna be looked at as an fountain
But what if she was a vampire instead of a fountain... >:D 
I haz hots for vampire Trin.

Pls Trin fans don't hate me :c 

[EchoesOfRain]

I like the rework, but I worry about it a bit

 

WoL: Are people really gonna use this, still? It's a healing skill that's less efficient than Blessing. It needs something else.

 

EV: We're getting somewhere. However, I'd like to see the target automatically link to other allies as well. Along with the target receiving damage over time, they should also receive damage upon ability cast

[Volinus7]

IMO trinity doesn't need any changes.

Seriously.

[Vitalis_Inamorta]

Speaking as a Trinity main since forever, who has used masochism builds since before most people knew they existed, carefully tuned self-damage weapons, and pretty much anything else abusive that Trinity has ever been able to do (Let's be honest, the WoL/EV combo hasn't really been useful since it first existed and could be to gib bosses who weren't imunized against it):

 

 

Okay, so, as to the Well of Life  changes, I'd be down for it, by all means.  It currently serves only two purposes, one of which is a niche (single target, long duration, easily interrupted CC....) and the other a gimmick (the death-mark combo with EV).  Really, either EV or WoL don't work on the vast majority of bosses, and/or minibosses, so it's not like you're going to be using that gimmick to gib anything that actually stands out from, you know, every other enemy in that mission.

 

That being Said, your idea for Pool of Life is insanely strong, and I'd take it any day over Trinity's current BLESSING.  You're forgetting that beyond Mercury, enemies have many, many, many times the health points of players, and are all but invulnerable to each other due to their absurd health/shield/armor/resist scaling.  Having an AoE Quick Thinking effect that uses an enemy's health to fuel it just plain won't work unless it is percentage based somehow, so that it isn't just an immortality AoE.

 

 

Your Energy Vampire idea has promise, but you need to fill in a LOT of details:

     -First...   does it even HAVE a duration, or does it just last until the enemy dies/Trinity goes out of range, because that's what it sounds like.

     -If Trinity moves out of range or the duration (if there is one) runs out without the target dying, do you still get energy orbs?

     -What happens with negative duration or increased duration?  Does the 5% HP go off faster due to having a set number of ticks over the duration, becoming a massive single target singe cast DoT nuke? OR is it once a second period, and becomes another death-mark with duration?

     -Also what happens with power strength and the link damage, does it affect the 5% ticks?

     -...does it cost only 25 energy to cast, due to its effect influencing its own cost on cast unmodified?

     -I should also point out that a max range build on Trinity with this and the correct Arcanes would let her do huge AoE knockdowns constantly by picking up the orbs it produces.

     -Does the power-cost modifying part of the power scale with power strength in any way?

     -Finally, and all-importantly, THE ORBS.  Why 3?  Why not 2 of 50 energy each scaling with power strength?  Why not 4 of 25?  Why not 1 of 100?  Are they normal energy orbs (AKA Greedy-Mag affected)?

 

Your Vampire Leech is optimized incorrectly.  It uses a nerfed range compared to that of current EV, for no reason.  Also, you state that it should incentivize people using shield mods, but neglect to notice that for frames with only 300 shields (a lot of them) even maxed out redirection would give the ability a result barely different than no shield mod at all.  The incentive just isn't even there for most frames.  Make it 150 or 40% of maximum shields, whichever is stronger, and fix the range back to what it should be (larger than 15m).

 

 

Link.  Nope.  Nooope.  No, No, and No.  First, the ability is clearly designed with 3 purposes in mind.  #1:  Protect Trinity's health/shields.  #2:  Protect Trinity from procs and/or CC effects.  #3:  To do moderate damage to the linked enemies.  It does #1 and #2 in both its current incarnation, and yours, however, it doesn't do #3 in either, due to massive enemy HP compared to the damage they do.  It's always done basically nothing for damage, the only exceptions being when people modded it to take advantage of self-damage, AKA putting a weapon that scales in the same insane ways as the enemy health against the enemy health, instead of ones that start at 1/10th of reasonable and scale down logarithmically.  On top of that, Link needs everything but power strength.  Here's a better idea.

     -#1:  Make link % based, and further scale it to the type of weapon Trinity is being hit by.  If she's being hit by an automatic weapon, 2% of enemy health should be taken as damage for all linked enemies (reduced by enemy armor and resistances) if it's a semi-auto weapon, 5%, and for a sniper, launcher, or melee, 20%.

     -#2:  Let the % done scale with power strength.  Want enemies to truly feel their own blows?  Mod for 250% power strength, and watch as enemies two-shot their allies with 62.5% max hp damage launchers and snipers.  On the other hand, you just don't want to get CC'd or take damage?  Mod for max range to ensure maximum linking, but the enemy won't be taking much damage either.  You like tactical abilities?  Link with duration and strength loses range, meaning Trinity has to be in CLOSE to make it good.

     -#3:  Abating Link.  You know how that Link did good damage at lower levels, but when the grineer's armor went over 9k and the infested had 3+ ancient healers in the same room, all the sudden it did nothing?  Make Abating Link scale off the base of an already non-broken ability.  Let it ignore or massively reduce any form of resistance that may be applied to it before effecting enemy health if Trinity has Abating Link installed.  Let it even do things like cut through Nullifier shields at 50% of its strength or so.

 

If you can do those three things to Link, We'll let you take our masochism builds and tricks, but until then, fair is fair.

 

 

Blessing:  No.  Frankly, it's weird design to incentivize an ability for being cast at the last minescule prescient fraction of a split second.  If you're going to call out players for their reflexes, you better make it fair.  I've died way too many times DURING the cast of Blessing while trying to maximize on it in a completely fair way, which just should not ever happen in an ability incentivized this way, because it means there's no incentive at all.  When Trinity presses that button:

     -#1:  All players need to stop losing HP until the cast is complete, or make the cast instantaneous.  IF you want to make it reflex based, a 0.5 second cast, which is far slower than even quite slow reflexes, is bull.

     -#2:  It needs to synchronize between players' times somehow, to prevent people dying due to network latency, even though the Trinity cast Blessing fast enough.  If it has to reset the game state by a fraction of a second based on the highest ping connected, so be it.

     -#3:  This ability is for Trinity too.  When she casts it, it needs to cast, this means that it should break her out of staggers (especially QT ones) and the dratted bug where you die due to lag with full energy while having QT slotted just needs to die.

 

Sorry, but 75% is just too weak, by a lot.  It outright needs to be able to go up as far as 1hp and a Saryn's HP pool with maxed Vitality and Vigor can take it.  Yes, this means 99%+.

 

Sorry again, making it not trigger off of self-damage seems like a good idea, but not all self-damage is intentional.  So... what... she doesn't heal if the damage is self inflicted?  No resists if self inflicted?  What if she self-inflicts half of the damage, or even just a couple of hit points, and the rest is inflicted by enemies.  You can't really differentiate that way in programming, it's just insanely complex and situational.

 

In short, for Blessing, while your idea of letting shields count into the multiplier is sound (and would actually break the most effective sources of self-damage ATM while leaving a Trinity who wanted to take advantage of the interaction completely nekkid in the cold), none of your other changes are logical or reasonable.  On top of that, it's nothing that other warframes don't do already.

     -Nyx can go for range and shield allies from all harm inside her Absorb.  The downside is that she can't regain energy until she stops the channel.

     -Limbo can make people invulnerable too, and all of their abilities work perfectly well even while rifted.  Combine with Volt or Mirage and you can even shoot out of the rift without being shot back at.

     -Oberon can literally freeze your bleed out timer in place, or make it run backwards with well thought out builds.  You thought a twitch reaction high damage resistance was immortality hax?

     -Banshee and Ember (with her 4 aug) with max range can stagger or knockdown lock enemies for miles (no chance of retribution except on a literal handful of the most outright massive tiles).

 

It's not like Trinity is the only one who can do this, and she has several weak points, namely the ability is not a toggle, and must be recast, not to mention hitting yourself with a precisely timed weapon right during the downtime.  Guess what happens if a grineer with an auto weapon or a corpus with a beam happens to lock onto you right when you go to self-damage or right after when you go to recast?

Trinity needs to be out of the line of fire to pull this off, and has to remain at full health and shields to even BEGIN to do the calibrated self-damage + Blessing combo.  If you get caught out, that's it, you're staggerlocked to death, ultimate fail.

 

The 10% of max shields per second thing is gimmicky and should probably be relegated to an augmentation, if it should even exist at all.

[[DE]Momaw]

That being Said, your idea for Pool of Life is insanely strong

 

How about alternatively: If Pool of Life saves a player, then the player gets a free heal but the victim immediately dies.

 

 

Your Energy Vampire idea has promise, but you need to fill in a LOT of details:

     -First...   does it even HAVE a duration, or does it just last until the enemy dies/Trinity goes out of range, because that's what it sounds like.

     -If Trinity moves out of range or the duration (if there is one) runs out without the target dying, do you still get energy orbs?

     -What happens with negative duration or increased duration?  Does the 5% HP go off faster due to having a set number of ticks over the duration, becoming a massive single target singe cast DoT nuke? OR is it once a second period, and becomes another death-mark with duration?

     -Also what happens with power strength and the link damage, does it affect the 5% ticks?

     -...does it cost only 25 energy to cast, due to its effect influencing its own cost on cast unmodified?

     -I should also point out that a max range build on Trinity with this and the correct Arcanes would let her do huge AoE knockdowns constantly by picking up the orbs it produces.

     -Does the power-cost modifying part of the power scale with power strength in any way?

     -Finally, and all-importantly, THE ORBS.  Why 3?  Why not 2 of 50 energy each scaling with power strength?  Why not 4 of 25?  Why not 1 of 100?  Are they normal energy orbs (AKA Greedy-Mag affected)?

 

Good questions!

 

Evamp would be a duration based ability, with an ordinary max duration of 20 seconds. At 5% health lost per second, base values will kill the target eventually. It needs to do some damage or else you just end up with Trinity hiding in a closet somewhere keeping an enemy as a battery pet, but you also don't want it to do so much damage that it ends up being a script-kill that's fast and efficient enough to be attractive. So no, you can't affect 5% health lost at all.

 

The victim would only drop energy orbs if they die while the effective is active on them, so yes, you can "flub" energy vampire if you cast it and then fail to kill the target before it ends. So Duration dictates how much time you have to accomplish that, ie, how much time you may comfortably use them as a casting cost reducer before you need to think about killing them, while Strength determines how much energy you get back once you do kill them.

 

If you cast Evamp on a different target while within the effect of an existing Evamp, yes, I suppose it would only cost 25 energy to cast. However because you only get energy BACK from Evamp if the victim dies, it wouldn't be profitable to do so. Very pedantic single-target method of crowd control I guess?

 

Not concerned with AOE knockdowns with arcane picking up energy orbs. This build seems incredibly esoteric and doesn't actually end combat. Enemies are more vulnerable but you still have to kill them. Plenty of easier strategies for CC spam.

 

Why 3 orbs? Because it scales nicely :) Base 3, intensify gets you 4, transient fort gets you 5, intensify + transient or blind rage gets you 6.

 

Your Vampire Leech is optimized incorrectly.  It uses a nerfed range compared to that of current EV, for no reason.  Also, you state that it should incentivize people using shield mods, but neglect to notice that for frames with only 300 shields (a lot of them) even maxed out redirection would give the ability a result barely different than no shield mod at all.  The incentive just isn't even there for most frames.  Make it 150 or 40% of maximum shields, whichever is stronger, and fix the range back to what it should be (larger than 15m).

 

Fair enough on range.

 

150 shield is the value currently given for a base-strength Vampire Leech (100 energy * 150% efficiency), that's why I went with 150. This number would scale off power strength.  The "or 25% of max shield" (should also scale off power strength) was added for shield tanks, NOT to turn frames who have weak shields into shield tanks. Sorry Loki.

 

Link.  Nope.  Nooope.  No, No, and No.  First, the ability is clearly designed with 3 purposes in mind.  #1:  Protect Trinity's health/shields.  #2:  Protect Trinity from procs and/or CC effects.  #3:  To do moderate damage to the linked enemies.  It does #1 and #2 in both its current incarnation, and yours, however, it doesn't do #3 in either, due to massive enemy HP compared to the damage they do.

 

To be honest I don't care that reflected damage stops being useful at crazy high enemy levels. There's lots of things that don't work at crazy high enemy levels. You can't design and balance for infinity. What I care about is Trinity players walking around with Stugs or Castanas, looking at their feet the whole mission, killing everything on the map without engaging in any kind of combat. If you want to kill them with your weapons, then kill them with your weapons. Link is not "clearly designed" to be an auto-aiming terrain-penetrating win button.

 

Your #2 (reflected damage scales with power strength) and #3 (let abating link mitigate more kinds of defense than just armor) ideas are both very interesting though.

 

Blessing:  No.  Frankly, it's weird design to incentivize an ability for being cast at the last minescule prescient fraction of a split second.

 

Except it wouldn't work like that anymore.  Because Blessing would consider shield damage as valid for damage reduction, you don't have to wait until allies are on their last sliver of life for the ability to be worth casting. Cast it as soon as anybody takes any damage, now they have full health and shields again but with a small damage reduction.  If they're still getting beat to death, their health and shields will go down again, more slowly, which means you can safely let them get a little lower on health/shields before hitting Blessing again, restoring them, giving them an even bigger damage reduction...   Right now Blessing is all about maximizing the performance of your single cast because it only becomes worth casting if your allies (or self) are near death. Revised Blessing rewards a more iterative, less risky style of casting.

 

And 99% damage reduction is absolutely stupid.  Trinity used to give the team literally outright invulnerability, and it was changed to not do that anymore. Supposedly. Then people discovered the self-explode meta.  The thing is, If you balance to make content with 99% damage reduction challenging then you make content that is completely impossible WITHOUT 99% reduction, which necessitates a specific frame with a specific loadout and a specific strategy, which... No.  Just no.  Trinity needs to be less meta, less godmode. Then we can look at balance with a new and more universal lens. If content cannot be completed without a 99% damage reduction from Trinity blowing herself up all the time, then that content is too difficult and should be adjusted.

 

Also I do not believe the oveshield charging on Blessing is gimmicky. It provides a reason to use Blessing before combat, or between engagements, which seems a perfectly reasonable thing for a dedicated support character.

[Luxpluff]

 

To be honest I don't care that reflected damage stops being useful at crazy high enemy levels. There's lots of things that don't work at crazy high enemy levels. You can't design and balance for infinity.

You can do just that; it's called designing an End Game. And it's kind of what keeps the game alive.

[Attel_Malagate]

We need to wait for u18, the "nuke" will affect the ennemy scaling and then, we can start balancing frames around the new standard

[Kolos1001]

IMO trinity doesn't need any changes.

Seriously.

Removing the energy mechanic from the game for your entire team needs to be changed. 

 

Powers have costs. With trinity...they don't. Gamebreaking. 

[Attel_Malagate]

Removing the energy mechanic from the game for your entire team needs to be changed. 

 

Powers have costs. With trinity...they don't. Gamebreaking. 

Lol he the trinity neft thread he made was a failure so he tries to moove to the other one

 

Most frames can do as good as if they didn't have an energy supply (Frost/ Nova/ Loki, Ember, Valkyr.....) and pizzas are here for a purpose, energy costs are low anyway, most of the times, the entire squad runs 4 Energy Syphon, and the pickups are doing the rest, Trinity only allows payer to get that extra bit that allows them to use their abilities freely, (Thats her main, purpose as a support)  I have done 60 waves with no trinity without any problems, but some setups are working better with one as you dont have to rely on the energy orbes.

Edited October 11, 2015 by nononimous

[Kolos1001]

Lol he the trinity neft thread he made was a failure so he tries to moove to the other one

 

Most frames can do as good as if they didn't have an energy supply (Frost/ Nova/ Loki, Ember, Valkyr.....) and pizzas are here for a purpose, energy costs are low anyway, most of the times, the entire squad runs 4 Energy Syphon, and the pickups are doing the rest, Trinity only allows payer to get that extra bit that allows them to use their abilities freely, (Thats her main, purpose as a support)  I have done 60 waves with no trinity without any problems, but some setups are working better with one as you dont have to rely on the energy orbes.

4 energy siphon? What?

 

Consumables are not free.

 

Using abilities freely is the problem. Removing the energy system completely is game breaking because the game was built around powers having a cost. Removing that cost destroys balance. 

[Luxpluff]

4 energy siphon? What?

 

Consumables are not free.

 

They are not, but they are still very, very cheap, to the point any Warframe can have lots of Energy easily.

[Kolos1001]

They are not, but they are still very, very cheap, to the point any Warframe can have lots of Energy easily.

The range on them means the entire team has to be standing on top of eachother..which without 99% damage reduction can spell doom. 

[Deejudanne]

Nope, nope, nope

[4G3NT_0R4NG3]

Nope, nope, nope

 

Logic please.