Stop Forcing Us To Play Archwing De

[S.T.M.P.D]

Uh . . . that's the point.

 

Frames are not part of an AW mission.  They are part of non-AW missions. ERGO you should not have to play AW to get them.

Hm. A solid point, indeed. Here's the thing, though: Would this be acceptable if Archwing was improved? Is Archwing improvable or salvageable? Or is this only a problem because you don't like Archwing?

[Syln]

AW and Frames have nothing to do with one another.

 

I firmly disagree, these two modes have to be entwined :x

 

Just wait until there is a new frame behind a PVP gate.

 

I don't do pvp that much (for the sake of my keyboard) but if they add a frame behind pvp then i would get it. Jeez that's a fun game mode if you don't try to be an mlg billy #omgwtfrageintensify.

 

Some gamer can be so reactionist :/

Edited October 16, 2015 by Syln

[(PSN)DesecratedFlame]

Hm. A solid point, indeed. Here's the thing, though: Would this be acceptable if Archwing was improved? Is Archwing improvable or salvageable? Or is this only a problem because you don't like Archwing?

No, it would not be acceptable even if I loved it.  It would be like forcing you to beat a puzzle game to get a new car in your favourite racing game. 

 

AW should gate only AW based content.

[Kalenath]

You appear to be the one ignoring all the arguments in this thread, that's clear enough by that fact you somehow still believe this thread is about trying to hinder or disable archwing. 

 

For pages people have expressed their disapproval of non aw content being blocked behind aw, and that it shouldn't be the only means of obtaining these items or objectives, that is all. Nobody has said they wanted AW to stop being a part of the game, or that it should be removed, or that development should come to a halt and the mode should be left to rot. Purely that it shouldn't be the only mode of obtaining things that are entirely unrelated to it. All you and those who disagree have come back with is we should deal with it, and its here to stay, which so much for actual points there. 

 

If you enjoy AW that is all fine and dandy, nobody is telling you not to, if you want it to thrive and grow, same thing, but none of that has anything to do with this discussion. This isn't about stopping archwings development, or making it so people who enjoy it can't play it, it is about granting the option to not play for those who don't want to. If you can explain why players shouldn't be allowed that option without putting words in their mouths or butchering their message then by all means do, but clinging to all these preconceived notions that everyone who isn't for everything archwing is out to destroy it will never result in your being right. 

 

If you are not a native English speaker, then this is understandable. If you are, then I find your lack of reading comprehension ... disturbing.

 

You may take my posts however you wish just as the OP does. Ignore whatever doesn't fit your worldview just as he does. Ignore any arguments that don't fit the reactionary rant mode. He flatly ignored half of my explanations only to come up with more half baked crap.

 

But please, for the love of GOD, please READ my posts in their ENTIRETY first. I know that is a struggle just as it is for the OP.

 

But...

 

You might want to read what is there instead of what you THINK is there. Because what you commented on is NOT what I wrote. Assumptions can be a very bad thing. Taking half or a third of what I say and responding to that makes NO sense.

 

If you are not a native English speaker, then I apologize. English can be a pain in the butt even for people who grew up reading and writing it.

Edited October 16, 2015 by Kalenath

[fatpig84]

Archwing is gonna get more integrated with the game more.

Get with the program.

 

You don't need everything to be a serviceable AW pilot at all really.

[TheBrsrkr]

Is two forma really such a big deal? I have 2 forma on my regular Imperator and I do just fine on anything. I didn't even Forma the Centaur, and the only reason I HAVE the Centaur in the first place is because my friend made an R9 crit damage mod by mistake (I don't even) and wanted plat. It isn't difficult to rank them up. Do a couple rounds on Mars, a couple more on Neptune or wherever the Corpus one was, then Uranus intercept till 30 when you can stuff enough mods on.

[Kalenath]

Archwing is gonna get more integrated with the game more.

Get with the program.

 

You don't need everything to be a serviceable AW pilot at all really.

 

All you REALLY need is the will to try and the time to invest in it.

 

But so many people either don't have the time or the will to try something new.

[(PSN)DesecratedFlame]

All you REALLY need is the will to try and the time to invest in it.

 

But so many people either don't have the time or the will to try something new.

It's not like they haven't given it a fair shot.  Most people have tried it and found it lacking.

[Ryouhi]

Is two forma really such a big deal? I have 2 forma on my regular Imperator and I do just fine on anything. I didn't even Forma the Centaur, and the only reason I HAVE the Centaur in the first place is because my friend made an R9 crit damage mod by mistake (I don't even) and wanted plat. It isn't difficult to rank them up. Do a couple rounds on Mars, a couple more on Neptune or wherever the Corpus one was, then Uranus intercept till 30 when you can stuff enough mods on.

You don't even need forma, i did the J3 Golem just fine with my lvl30 Imperator, no potato, no forma ö.ö

[Kalenath]

It's not like they haven't given it a fair shot.  Most people have tried it and found it lacking.

 

Maybe.

 

Of course, most of them tried it at launch and hated it so they will hate it now no matter how much it has improved. Easier to change a tide than the minds of human beings.

 

Not saying that everyone will enjoy it or HAS to no matter WHAT words various people INSIST on putting into my mouth. Not saying it is perfect. Not even saying that the frames stuck behind Archwing shouldn't have alternative means of acquisition besides the market because I KNOW not everyone will enjoy it as much as I do.

 

But it is better than it was.

Edited October 16, 2015 by Kalenath

[-Genesis-]

I sometimes wish we fast forward to the great age of the artificial intelligence era. Imagine your computer can respond to whatever you type over the forums.

Creates a topic :

Whiner: "I hate archwing! It suuux sooo baaad!"
 

Warframe A.I. replies to your post :

A.I. : Yeess! Woohoo! Are you going to stop playing warframe now? I'm already sick of dying from elite ogmas in earth AW mission, you! You! You incompetent operator! You don't like me? Well, who likes you anyway? And let's make it clear I didn't ask you to like me!

A.I  : Dear lord, even my own coded A.I. is better than you in playing shooting games. Might as well do these missions on my own then.

        *Excalibur in odonota zips to do missions on his own*

Or maybe you can tell how the archwing can improve in a constructive manner, giving it time to reflect and most of all, TIME to improve.

 

Edited October 16, 2015 by -Genesis-

[(PSN)DesecratedFlame]

Maybe.

 

Of course, they tried it at launch and hated it so they will hate it now no matter how much it has improved. Easier to change a tide than the minds of human beings.

 

Not saying that everyone will enjoy it or HAS to no matter WHAT words various people INSIST on putting into my mouth.

 

But it is better than it was.

You only get one chance to make a first impression. If they want to change how people feel about it then they need to make major improvements not just some minor ones. I don't think they have done that.  I don't even have a full set of mods for it so even playing it seems like a major hassle because I barely tickle enemies.

 

I don't understand how they could learn their lesson (somewhat) about this in the regular mode and start giving out broken mods, only to turn around and make the exact same mistake in AW.

[(XBOX)AjarGman]

It sounds like OP and a few others want options concerning content acquired through Archwing.  Biggest complaint that I see popping up concerns "normal content" (Atlas, Limbo to a much lesser extent) being rewards as completing Archwing missions.  It's easy enough to see how people would have problems with that.  Its the same issue I had with the release of Odonata Prime being simply added in to the Void.  I felt like Archwing content should be acquired from Archwing missions, "normal content" should be rewards from "normal missions", immediately.  But that was my opinion, and here's the reality I've realized, come to accept and made the most of.  <-- I know that sounds grim but it's ultimately improved my gaming experience with Warframe.

  You'll see why.

 

There's just no room for that kind of solution as Warframe as a whole stands for now.  Atlas drops from the Golem Boss because I dont think the Developers saw another reliable way to implement his parts as a reward.  There was no base boss for Atlas to be tied to.  What about a Key based boss?  You know, like how we get Mesa -_-... Oh?  That's not a good idea you say?  Obviously, as DE is moving away from that.  Remember how we used to have to fight Vay Hek, before the raids, where we had to make a key with now useless drops from special enemies?  Not anymore.

 

 

Well, they could reward his parts like Oberon or Ash are now.  Except that, I feel, is a "holding state" if you will for Warframes that have no good alternative for being given as a reward.  Rather than bind them to a Key accessed mission or an Alert status as mentioned below, they are always available but just require a little forethought to getting them. 

 

The next solution?  Reward him like Vauban.  Tie his parts to be rewarded from alerts that appear... once, twice a month?  Sometimes, it'll even be the same part multiple times in a row.  As a reward for an Alert mission, that wasn't going to sit well with anyone.

 

So here we are.  Atlas is tied to a Boss, the best way.  You don't need to gather materials to construct a key to fight the boss.  While the Golem is a unique enemy, at least he always rewards Atlas parts unlike Eximus or Manic kills.  The Golem's also here, permanent.  He's not going away anytime soon, so until then he's always available for us to fight him and to get rewarded with Atlas parts.

 

All of these points can be applied to my former gripe with the Odonata Prime.  Except then I saw it a different way.  Its not just any Archwing, its a Prime.  All Primes, excluding Founder items, are acquired from the Void or from Prime Access.  When I considered that, then considered how limited the Void is at the moment in terms of mission types, I decided it's not so bad after all.  Sure, it'd be nice in the future if we play special Archwing missions for that sweet sweet Prime Archwing gear and vice versa, but for now I'm taking this game for what it is.

 

That doesn't mean that's the way it's going to stay.  If you've been playing Warframe since it's very beginning, you'll know exactly what I mean.

 

Just like an achievement I got for playing my first ten out of my nearly nine hundred hours of Warframe on my Xbox One account,

 

"It just keeps getting better"

[(PSN)DesecratedFlame]

It sounds like OP and a few others want options concerning content acquired through Archwing.  Biggest complaint that I see popping up concerns "normal content" (Atlas, Limbo to a much lesser extent) being rewards as completing Archwing missions.  It's easy enough to see how people would have problems with that.  Its the same issue I had with the release of Odonata Prime being simply added in to the Void.  I felt like Archwing content should be acquired from Archwing missions, "normal content" should be rewards from "normal missions", immediately.

That's the way it should be.

 

Also: Primes Frames should come from the Void. AW gear should come from AW missions.  New Frames should come from Quests.

[Kalenath]

You only get one chance to make a first impression. If they want to change how people feel about it then they need to make major improvements not just some minor ones. I don't think they have done that.  I don't even have a full set of mods for it so even playing it seems like a major hassle because I barely tickle enemies.

 

I don't understand how they could learn their lesson (somewhat) about this in the regular mode and start giving out broken mods, only to turn around and make the exact same mistake in AW.

 

So... You didn't bother to gear up and you complain that you cannot take out bad guys. Okay... Kind of like a clanmate who went for his first three weeks of playing without modding his weapons and always wondered why it took 3 magazines worth of sustained fire to kill a rank 12 Heavy Gunner.

 

Maybe because mods are a work in progress? Maybe because players are endlessly inventive in finding new and better ways to cheese the systems? Maybe because Scott wasn't happy with them and wants to revamp the whole mess?

 

No. It is JUST to inconvenience some players.

 

So many people assume Archwing is the completed product as it is. That there IS NO ROOM FOR CHANGE. This is patently false no matter what the naysayers may believe.

 

I would LIKE that room for change to allow others to enjoy the game mode as I do. Or to change it so that MORE people can enjoy it.

 

But DE cannot please everyone.

Edited October 16, 2015 by Kalenath

[Cubewano]

 

If you are not a native English speaker, then this is understandable. If you are, then I find your lack of reading comprehension ... disturbing.

 

You may take my posts however you wish just as the OP does. Ignore whatever doesn't fit your worldview just as he does. Ignore any arguments that don't fit the reactionary rant mode. He flatly ignored half of my explanations only to come up with more half baked crap.

 

But please, for the love of GOD, please READ my posts in their ENTIRETY first. I know that is a struggle just as it is for the OP.

 

But...

 

You might want to read what is there instead of what you THINK is there. Because what you commented on is NOT what I wrote. Assumptions can be a very bad thing. Taking half or a third of what I say and responding to that makes NO sense.

 

If you are not a native English speaker, then I apologize. English can be a pain in the butt even for people who grew up reading and writing it.

I am going to politely dismiss your attacking me, although you earlier viewed that as a sign of defeat. Nothing you have offered in this last response has cleared away any of my points, you basically just repeated my responses minus clarifications. And I did read you're posts, then re-read them, and while now I realize for a brief period you were within reason, at some point there was a shift. You went from agreeing that walling content behind archwing is bad and you want alternatives to apparently it is entirely justified and nobody is being forced into archwing within the flutter of a page or two. Then you go on to claim all the discussion in this thread was disproving this issue, which is entirely untrue, and move along as if it is fact. 

 

I don't know what delivered you from one area to the next, but that does by no means changes the views of everyone else in this thread who has expressed their disapproval of the current handling of AW. They do feel it is being forced (i don't see how being required to use AW to get frames or save relays is not forcing the mode) and they see no reason why it shouldn't be stopped or at least be an alternative instead of the sole means. There is literally no loss for AW in this situation, not forcing people to deal with it does not require removing content, it just needs DE to stop making it block progression for players who only want the core game.

 

Archwing is gonna get more integrated with the game more.

Get with the program.

 

You don't need everything to be a serviceable AW pilot at all really.

I certainlly hope that is true, it would lovely one day to boot up warframe and find out AW has finally reached the point where it is an actual extension of warframe and less of a secondary game mode. But until that time DE shouldn't be shoving this incomplete project in players faces. 

[(PSN)DesecratedFlame]

So... You didn't bother to gear up and you complain that you cannot take out bad guys. Okay... Kind of like a clanmate who went for his first three weeks of playing without modding his weapons and always wondered why it took 3 magazines worth of sustained fire to kill a rank 12 Heavy Gunner.

 

Maybe because mods are a work in progress? Maybe because players are endlessly inventive in finding new and better ways to cheese the systems? Maybe because Scott wasn't happy with them and wants to revamp the whole mess?

 

No. It is JUST to inconvenience some players.

 

So many people assume Archwing is the completed product as it is. That there IS NO ROOM FOR CHANGE. This is patently false no matter what the naysayers may believe.

It's a catch 22.  You can't reliably kill enemies because you haven't geared up, but you can't gear up because you can't reliably kill enemies.

 

That's the same problem with the new player experience that led to the broken mods being introduced.

 

 

 

I certainlly hope that is true, it would lovely one day to boot up warframe and find out AW has finally reached the point where it is an actual extension of warframe and less of a secondary game mode. But until that time DE shouldn't be shoving this incomplete project in players faces. 

 

Well said.

Edited October 16, 2015 by (PS4)DesecratedFlame

[(XBOX)AjarGman]

That's the way it should be.

 

Also: Primes Frames should come from the Void. AW gear should come from AW missions.  New Frames should come from Quests.

 

Exactly.  Except for now it's not.  Also would you mind editing in the rest of the paragraph you quoted please?  It's not my complete thought in that part otherwise.

[(PSN)DesecratedFlame]

Exactly.  Except for now it's not.  Also would you mind editing in the rest of the paragraph you quoted please?  It's not my complete thought in that part otherwise.

I did. To reiterate, there is room for it.  It's called "Quests."

[LascarCapable]

Okay, this is getting really dev bashy...

 

Locking this.