Alternatives To Snow Globe In Tower Defense

[(PSN)StoicStria]

Right now the only ability that can provide sound protection for the cyro-pod in longer defenses 

is the Snow Globe. I believe that for the sake of diversifying, we ought to have realistic alternatives to this power. It should be said that I'm not condoning superior alternatives to Snow Globe, just modest ones.

 

I propose altering the barrier-type abilities of some frames in order to have such an alternative. 

 

For example:

 

1 . Fire Blast 

Its range should be modifiable.

It should "melt" incoming projectiles.

 

2. Cataclysm

It should be re-castable without having to deactivate first.

 

3. Electric Shield

Its size should be modifiable.

 

4. Tectonics

Multiple walls would be nice.

 

5. Turbulence

It should be re-castable without having to wait for the timer to expire.

[7grims]

Yah, makes sense, frost as been stuck on the role of pod defender for ages.

In the essence of the thing, snow globe is as much of a problem as mesa or greedy mag was, not as obvious nor as damaging, yet still, it arrests frost on that niche.

Maybe frost should be changed, so he isnt limited to be the obvious choice for def, nor the constant requirement.

 

But thrutfully, you idea is much more healthy, other frames and other abilities that can provide the same kind of strategy and usefulness.

I always loved loki with a good ranged radial disarm, he becomes a good substitute for a frost, but more frames need that role.

 

+++1

very good suggestion.

Edited October 19, 2015 by 7grims

[bowiespoon]

I think the problem isnt with frost, but with the lack of any good alternatives. I would love to see other frames competing with him.

 

btw, I main frost, if that matters to you

[BabyKurama]

I was hoping that when we finally got a earth elemental frame it would be a new defensive type. But no

So hopefully DE will remake one of Atlas powers so he becomes a defense frames.



Else nice idea

[(PSN)CoolD2108]

Use a shadow necros and tank enemys nearly as effective. Valid alternative :P

+1 to anything suggested tho.

I'd even go as far as reworking limbos cataclysm/rift completely.

Edited October 19, 2015 by (PS4)CoolD2108

[rawr1254]

+1 but even with all these ideas frost would still be the most used with the impenetrable globe with no duration, near infinite health with them stacking on top of each other, slow, and knockback with freeze on cast.

 

These ideas would need some tailoring but you're on the right track. The main thing is getting rid of the duration then any one of them would be on par with globe kinda.

[7grims]

Use a shadow necros and tank enemys nearly as effective. Valid alternative :P

 

 

That is a very very bad example, in fact not using shadows is 100 times better then using them.

Its not a valid alternative at all, would prefer anytime terrify then shadows.

The majority of times I see players cast that ultimate the situation becomes worse then it already was, that ability is a mess and prejudicial to the squad.

Having more npc allies only creates more mess and confusion, you cant see the enemy, you cant see ur tenno friends, u can see the pod.

I've witness that ability ruin so many missions, and not only defense, but survival, the appearance of sudden death squads or stalker or g3, it all ended in death for all the team or mission fail.

Edited October 20, 2015 by 7grims

[RealPandemonium]

I think the playerbase needs to be weaned off snowglobe reliance for defense missions, and that defense missions should not be balanced around spamming powers to keep the pod alive.  Adding more "snowglobe alternatives" would be a step in the wrong direction and ultimately a bandaid for the powerspam problem.  

Edited October 20, 2015 by RealPandemonium

[7grims]

I think the playerbase needs to be weaned off snowglobe reliance for defense missions, and that defense missions should not be balanced around spamming powers to keep the pod alive.  Adding more "snowglobe alternatives" would be a step in the wrong direction and ultimately a bandaid for the powerspam problem.  

 

More strategic powers isnt bad, nor increases power-creep.

We actually need more strategic abilities, then more frames that are based on dealing damage, and frames based on buffing and debuffing (which isn't even fun to play with those, nor original).

 

But yah, it would be great to get rid of the snow globe reliance, it becomes mandatory for most ppl to have a frost in the squad, and its demeaning for frost which becomes his only job, and the only time/place he is ever used.

[(XBOX)qcevolution]

Surrounding the pod in volt shields has worked really well for me with my duration volt. Since the shields are indestructible, plus i use the amprex so it synergizes well with the shields.

Edited October 20, 2015 by (XB1)qcevolution

[(PSN)CoolD2108]

That is a very very bad example, in fact not using shadows is 100 times better then using them.

Its not a valid alternative at all, would prefer anytime terrify then shadows.

The majority of times I see players cast that ultimate the situation becomes worse then it already was, that ability is a mess and prejudicial to the squad.

Having more npc allies only creates more mess and confusion, you cant see the enemy, you cant see ur tenno friends, u can see the pod.

I've witness that ability ruin so many missions, and not only defense, but survival, the appearance of sudden death squads or stalker or g3, it all ended in death for all the team or mission fail.

A high quantity of shadows that have a tactical benefit over theyr enemys (at least the double health on a good build) that swarm in all directions and tank them is a pretty valid alternative to direct protection. This measure keeps the damage away from the pot in the first place. The usuall necros you encounter doesn't build for them. One shouldn't cast them, on a wrong build, when they are "needet" they should be up all the time. Then they are able to give results. Only then.

As for the stalker...it's strange that he doesn't dispell snow globes in the first place... it's good for us but this is actually a exceptation. One that wouldn't hurt other frames eather. He is supposed to have a battle advantage over you but he definitly shouldn't screw over entire runs

Edited October 20, 2015 by (PS4)CoolD2108

[(PSN)StoicStria]

I suppose instead of giving other frames barriers or improving the barriers of frames that do have them, DE could simply nerf the Snow Globe so that it wouldn't be so much more effective than turbulence, electric shield and cataclysm. Less work for them I Guess -

[LazerusKI]

the only alternate i tried so far was Volts Shield...didnt work so well.

Back before the big Vauban Nerfhammer i used a high efficiency long range bastille for defense, but thats gone.

Also if Vaubans Bastille Augment would have been the Shielded one, he could have been the alternative to frost

Enemies caught in Bastille now absorb enemy bullets. (338 votes [14.88%])

The center of Bastille buffs allies. (289 votes [12.73%])

Once Bastille has reached maximum capacity, additional enemies that enter Bastille will be repelled. (554 votes [24.39%])

Enemies captured by Bastille have a chance to spread procs to all other captured enemies. (187 votes [8.23%])

Bastille has destructible plates that can block attacks. (346 votes [15.24%])

Supply stations are created inside bastille, each station can replenish up to two players, the stations are energy, health, shield and ammo. (557 votes [24.53%])

Even the Vortex Augments would have been nice against ranged-defense

Vortex increases in size if no enemies are caught. Captured enemies will cause it to slowly shrink to normal size. (317 votes [18.25%])

Vortex will capture all enemies within Bastille if it is used within Bastille's radius. (436 votes [25.10%])

When Vortex's duration ends, it knocks enemies away (257 votes [14.80%])

Vortex creates an auxiliary ring that slows enemies. (278 votes [16.00%])

Vortex's duration is increased for each additional Vortex thrown into the initial Vortex. (449 votes [25.85%])

 

Also i kinda like the Fire Blast and Electric Shield ideas, would be fun as Augments

Edited October 20, 2015 by LazerusKI

[(PSN)l0r3n7step]

Right now the only ability that can provide sound protection for the cyro-pod in longer defenses 

is the Snow Globe. 

And then I stopped reading.

[ShardsSuperior]

The only one that can provide sound protection? Hardly. But the only one that can do it very easily.

 

And that's okay. Other frames bring better CC and damage to the table, but Frost is the only one with the easy 360 protection that you can shoot out of, and easily renew.

It's kind of Frost's thing: Protection. No other frame should be able to do it as easily as he does.

 

With the current changes, a Globe build doesn't destroy his other three abilities, either. 

 

I think Frost, as well as all the other frames that want to try this, are fine.

[(PSN)l0r3n7step]

How can a Frost protect much for experienced players who mostly still play Warframe as long as they are challenged. Like wave 60+ in T4 def.

Even when Frost were to constantly spam a new globe every 4seconds, if he dies the defense-mission would be practically over.

 

Sure the missions that involve cryo-pods are usually low-level or not played for 60waves, since there is no additional incentive.

 

Frost is an awesome team-player with great protection for everyday gameplay. And yet he brings so much more to the table. Most Frosts, aside from the inability to keep their thing up, seemingly lack the knowledge of how and why to intentionally remove an unused globe.

 

 

Now, reading through he OP's comments. They seem really enticing. Thumbs up.

Edited October 20, 2015 by (PS4)l0r3n7step

[ZzVinniezZ]

I think the problem isnt with frost, but with the lack of any good alternatives. I would love to see other frames competing with him.

 

btw, I main frost, if that matters to you

i hardly see Frost outside of defense mission, doing this will put him to the zero place because clearly no one like playing defensive warframe such as Frost himself. Most of the time i see iron skin rhino, exalted blade excal (luckily enough to see a nekros or zephyr) and these guys hardly protect the pod when frost has joined, forcing Frost to be the one protecting while others just running around killing things.

[(PSN)aiptekfanboy]

More strategic powers isnt bad, nor increases power-creep.

We actually need more strategic abilities, then more frames that are based on dealing damage, and frames based on buffing and debuffing (which isn't even fun to play with those, nor original).

 

But yah, it would be great to get rid of the snow globe reliance, it becomes mandatory for most ppl to have a frost in the squad, and its demeaning for frost which becomes his only job, and the only time/place he is ever used.

lol

 

long duration high range avalanche plus abundant energy from trinity wants a word with you.

[Misgenesis]

Give the pods a barrier around them by default that only blocks gunfire.

 

There, Frost no longer mandatory

Edited October 21, 2015 by Misgenesis

[7grims]

A high quantity of shadows that have a tactical benefit over theyr enemys (at least the double health on a good build) that swarm in all directions and tank them is a pretty valid alternative to direct protection. This measure keeps the damage away from the pot in the first place. The usuall necros you encounter doesn't build for them. One shouldn't cast them, on a wrong build, when they are "needet" they should be up all the time. Then they are able to give results. Only then.

 

Doesn't matter if ppl mod for it or not, it creates chaos and mess.

I don't rely on a shadow to kill or stop and enemy that is close to the pod, nor I rely on a shadow to stop a enemy who as a clear view of the pod and is shooting it, yet I also cannot stop the enemy who is close to the pod, nor i can stop the enemy who is shooting the pod, since there is so many shadows everywhere, blocking my view of the battle field.

More often then not, whenever there is a high concentration of shadows there will be a downed nekros or any other tenno, the strategic advantage of this ability is as harmful for the enemy as it is for us.

 

 

lol

 

long duration high range avalanche plus abundant energy from trinity wants a word with you.

 

Have no idea what ur talking about, nor I believe you do either.

You must have misinterpreted something I wrote, very badly.

[(PSN)StoicStria]

The only one that can provide sound protection? Hardly. But the only one that can do it very easily.

 

And that's okay. Other frames bring better CC and damage to the table, but Frost is the only one with the easy 360 protection that you can shoot out of, and easily renew.

It's kind of Frost's thing: Protection. No other frame should be able to do it as easily as he does.

 

With the current changes, a Globe build doesn't destroy his other three abilities, either. 

 

I think Frost, as well as all the other frames that want to try this, are fine.

We should probably clarify few things:

I think most of us get it when I say longer defenses (60+)

And I think everyone here understands that we are taking about protecting the cryopod.

The last time I ran with Limbo the cryopod was destroyed at wave 82 while I was recasting cataclysm.

The last time I ran with Volt the cryopod was destroyed by gunners on the balcony much sooner.

If you have a 60+ run without Snowglobe, post it man. Enlighten us!

[TangyBlueBerry]

We begged for nerfs on frames people demand be brought to a mission. However when everyone demands a Frost in their defense mission since **literally** since his introduction, their ok with it.

[(PSN)CoolD2108]

Doesn't matter if ppl mod for it or not, it creates chaos and mess.

I don't rely on a shadow to kill or stop and enemy that is close to the pod, nor I rely on a shadow to stop a enemy who as a clear view of the pod and is shooting it, yet I also cannot stop the enemy who is close to the pod, nor i can stop the enemy who is shooting the pod, since there is so many shadows everywhere, blocking my view of the battle field.

More often then not, whenever there is a high concentration of shadows there will be a downed nekros or any other tenno, the strategic advantage of this ability is as harmful for the enemy as it is for us.

Have no idea what ur talking about, nor I believe you do either.

You must have misinterpreted something I wrote, very badly.

Soo...you're saying that the shadows pull your "aggro"? Cause thats exactly what happens to the enemys. This creates a legit battlefield away from the pot. They can't dodge your bullets tho. Don't blame them for your own issues.

Lol dude, try saying that a tank is a bad idea in ANY other forum. This is a luxury only to warframe that never bothered with a propper aggro system. Necros, valkyr and limbo still manage to pull the tank role of. Necros beein the only one actually covering a area.

Edited October 21, 2015 by (PS4)CoolD2108

[DSpite]

No offense, but saying "longer defense games" already show an aspect of this game that is problematic as a whole, that being that "Endless" has no balance, so people have to resort to cheap tricks like perma Snow Globes to counter the incoming bullets that hit like rounds from a Starship main guns.

 

By asking for MORE shielding methods you are compounding the problem by band-aiding even more classes to a role of "keep a protective lid on this objective".

 

How abut instead if the damn Crypod was ALREADY under it's own special protective effect, and we had to defend that not from taking hits, but from the enemies trying to get to consoles and shut the field down or something, then we can still take whatever the hell Frames we want, and rely on killing, and not baby sitting a protective shell.

[YasaiTsume]

+1 for Fire Blast idea