Sniper Rifle Rework [U18 Megathread]

[----Dante----]

will hipfire get a fix tho?

thats hipfire with lanka , used lanka cause you can see where exacly is projectile going, its same bad accuracy with all snipers tho.

[akira_him]

the hipfire nerf hurts too much, making snipers impractical

[Echowing]

The Patch Notes stated that "Each level of zoom will provide a stat bonus that is applied to each shot. These bonuses are specific to each Sniper Rifle and will be indicated in the scope."  However, from what I've seen, the Lanka and Rubico are the only ones with actual unique effects (critical chance and damage respectively).  All of the other rifles have +% damage when scoped.  I was really hoping for more unique effects on each, like bonus headshot damage or punchthrough or something.

[Faustus]

The idea sounds good but, feels very laking. Several people point the feel of the snipers now very well. 

1, The Combo system, It need more time, and make that headshots give you more counters. DE is going to nerf multishot and this systems is dependent of that mechanic to work. Don't kill  the combo if i low the sights, sometimes you need to do that to safe your life against closing enemies, or aim then scope to have a better enemy location, Finally if the reloads times stay then pause the time of the counter because its imposible to keep the counter and reload.

2. The shaking aim... Is horrible, innesesary and makes the combos even worse

3. Hip shoot... why nerf it? 90% of the time you kill 2 distan targets and then have to hip shot enemies too close to aim properly

4. Buff damage and reduce critical,  or buff the critical and make then reliable to kill

5. Several people are right the snipers need their own moods...

6. Punch through for all the snipers.

7. Poop nullifier bubbles in one shoot or two... no 2 magazines or more

 

PSD: Sorry for my english...

Edited December 7, 2015 by Faustus

[Nako-Chan]

Since StickyBaseline, Centias, and nickleshark already hit the nail on the head so I won't elaborate on why the sniper rework is objectively worse.

 

Revert nerfs to accuracy plox. Remove the obnoxious scope sway plox.

[AutoPhox]

Quick reset makes sense for melee counts, but for a sniper count, a slow reset would be more logical. Snipers need the precious seconds to acquire a target and land a shot. The melee counter doesn't reset if you miss a target.

I suggest extending the sniper counter reset time to 6-8 seconds.

[Vaskadar]

I think the reset should happen if you miss your shot, not because of some timer.

 

Snipers in most situations require a good measure of patience, planning, and precision. In Warframe, there should be things to accommodate the fast-paced nature of the game. Removing those accommodations really gimped sniper rifles as a whole, and they're even further down the hole than beforehand.

[Hammahness808]

Quick reset makes sense for melee counts, but for a sniper count, a slow reset would be more logical. Snipers need the precious seconds to acquire a target and land a shot. The melee counter doesn't reset if you miss a target.

I suggest extending the sniper counter reset time to 6-8 seconds.

 

 

I think the reset should happen if you miss your shot, not because of some timer.

 

Snipers in most situations require a good measure of patience, planning, and precision. In Warframe, there should be things to accommodate the fast-paced nature of the game. Removing those accommodations really gimped sniper rifles as a whole, and they're even further down the hole than beforehand.

[Dr.Evergreen]

Here are some suggestions.

1. Innate punch through for all hitscan snipers, at least 1.2m deep.

2. Buff base crits for all snipers. even bows have much faster firerate and higher crits. this is shameful for sniper guns.

3. roll back hipfire accuracy. poor accuracy is really awkward and making snipers unwieldy.

4. give some special secondary fire for each gun. for example, vectis and vectis prime can shoot incinerate bullets, which have 50% damage of primary shot but can explode small area about 5m radius when hit.

5. give some more time to combo.

[ROSING]

So far, I didn't see any posts on this megathread in favor of the current changes.

 

I am in agreement, I am disappointed with these changes. Being able to eliminate nullifiers is a great idea, not even bursting the bubble in one shot but just punching through it to hit the actual nullifier would be rewarding skill-wise and create a great niche for snipers. 

 

Right now, the only real place snipers have a niche is maybe, maybe killing Sentients, which is what I use it for, and since those guys are only available on three nodes for a tiny fraction of the mission that isn't at all justifiable.

 

I really hope you guys can take the time to make responsive fixes soon; I know from the shotgun buff and most of the Warframe reworks you can give snipers the niche they need. Waiting for 3.0.

[Tachikoman]

Hip fire inaccuracy is forcing sniper to scope on every shot.

The scope bonus is encouraging player to use impractical level of zoom (e.g. 12x) despite all enemies are so closed to you.

The scope sway makes aiming weakspot (headshot) rather frustating, and the lack of bonus on hitting weakspot makes sniping not so rewarding.

The scope amplify all screen shake when your dear friends nuke around the area.

[LuftWaifu]

Hip fire inaccuracy is making sniper rifles a lot less pleasant to use. Before that nerf, a punchthrough modded vectis felt like a quake railgun, which fit the fast paced gameplay of warframe perfectly. Now it feels like a solution without a problem.

[LazerusKI]

So far, I didn't see any posts on this megathread in favor of the current changes.

 

I am in agreement, I am disappointed with these changes. Being able to eliminate nullifiers is a great idea, not even bursting the bubble in one shot but just punching through it to hit the actual nullifier would be rewarding skill-wise and create a great niche for snipers. 

 

Right now, the only real place snipers have a niche is maybe, maybe killing Sentients, which is what I use it for, and since those guys are only available on three nodes for a tiny fraction of the mission that isn't at all justifiable.

 

I really hope you guys can take the time to make responsive fixes soon; I know from the shotgun buff and most of the Warframe reworks you can give snipers the niche they need. Waiting for 3.0.

well, they are not totally bad, they are just...i dunno...the zoom mods are all still praying to RNG because either you crit or you waste a shot, only Lanka got a nice Scope Buff here. Rubico can be nice, but only if you crit with it. The others are just flat damage bonus so meh.

The Combo System would fit more for other neglected weapons, like Semi-Auto Rifles, they are fast enough and the gameplay would even fit for that. But Snipers...i simply wished for an enhanced headshot mechanic, guaranteed crit when hitting it, redcrits when a headshot has a regular crit then. Thats all i wanted, not some combo mechanic that doesnt fit for the rifle types and resets on two of them on reload.

But overall with the stat buffs and those things the snipers CAN hit pretty hard...its just still RNG, and so Bows are still better because they WILL crit.

Edited December 8, 2015 by LazerusKI

[hijinks_the_turtle]

 

I've been testing rubico a bit and found that the weapon seems to have at least 1 shot in every magazine that does no damage, even if I shoot straight towards the target. I've not been able to test my Snipertron, so I'm wondering if it's been happening to other snipers (other than Vectis, it seems to be fine).

 

Other than that, I'm not too sure about this....'buff'. I like the variable scopes, but I'm not liking the slightly drifting scope that increases with each zoom and the decrease in accuracy out of scope. It's hard enough having to be mobile and carry around a sniper rifle and stand there (even when in cover) while looking down the scope as enemies shoot you. It's even harder when [insert an annoying enemy here] in the late-game takes you out with an unexpected [insert stun, eximus/nullifier ability, attack here] when the idea of the game is to be mobile. The scopes purposely tunnel our vision and there is not many good places for a sniper to sustain themselves on far away area in many maps.

 

I'm fine with the whole combo thing, I hope they make the combos last longer in order for snipers to help put down more damage. It shouldn't be a minigame with the darn drifting scope while trying to kill a bombard who is melting your defense pod.

 

TL;DR Ghost shots are annoying for weapons where every miss and wasted round is time spent not doing any damage meaningfully. Sniper changes were cool on paper, but shaking scope, short combo times , and decreased accuracy out of scope stops any meaningful changes to them.

[kaz3n]

I think the changes are in a good direction but as of update 18 i've been having this problem with my Vectis prime where the reticle is on the spot and it misses... this happens to me alot of times and most of the time during hipfire. 

 

anyway, a few things like the timer on the combo counter needs to be adjusted... I still think that Snipers should have a special effect on nullifiers or arctic globes or what ever cover enemy has. like when targeting these kind of enemies with cover it removes them via dead aim. Sniper rifle should have some sort of finisher damage during headshots.

 

most of the time the changes in the snipers feels abit the same for me, my playstyle didn't get affected by it, i still spam reload on nulliefiers i still shoot w/o aiming... even with Vectis I always thought the 1st zoom is ok but when added the 2nd zoom its just becomes disorienting for me...

 

having fun doing some Focus stealth farming though, cant wait for Ivara to finish. 

[LazerusKI]

Mhh would you guys think that Sniper Rifles would be in a better position if we would have the Critical Mods (Vital Sense and Point Strike) as Primed Versions? Just like Pistols allready have?

Primed Point Strike with 250% or so?

[Rekkou]

Mhh would you guys think that Sniper Rifles would be in a better position if we would have the Critical Mods (Vital Sense and Point Strike) as Primed Versions? Just like Pistols allready have?

Primed Point Strike with 250% or so?

 

That means weapons like Amprex or bow like Dread can reach 100% red crits all the time. And people will complain why Snipers can't achieve stable red crits like those weapons. It's the same problem but with Red Crits instead of yellow.

[LazerusKI]

That means weapons like Amprex or bow like Dread can reach 100% red crits all the time. And people will complain why Snipers can't achieve stable red crits like those weapons. It's the same problem but with Red Crits instead of yellow.

true...so basically either sniper rifles need to have either 40% Base crit (to reach 100% with Point Strike), or they all need to have the "lanka scope"

or another reward for "sniping" as i have mentioned above

Edited December 8, 2015 by LazerusKI

[TangyBlueBerry]

How come high caliber guns still don't have innate punch throw, but arrows still do? I thought DE heard all the complaints and how the most desired aspect for snipers is for them to have innate punch through.

[hijinks_the_turtle]

Mhh would you guys think that Sniper Rifles would be in a better position if we would have the Critical Mods (Vital Sense and Point Strike) as Primed Versions? Just like Pistols allready have?

Primed Point Strike with 250% or so?

Those are band-aid fixes and they don't solve the real problem.  Primed mods shouldn't be a thing to fix stuff or make it necessary in nearly every build.

[LazerusKI]

Those are band-aid fixes and they don't solve the real problem.  Primed mods shouldn't be a thing to fix stuff or make it necessary in nearly every build.

sure, but band-aid fix would still be better than nothing, right?

[alfaomega04]

Mhh would you guys think that Sniper Rifles would be in a better position if we would have the Critical Mods (Vital Sense and Point Strike) as Primed Versions? Just like Pistols allready have?

Primed Point Strike with 250% or so?

No. This is a bad a idea. Snipers are broken plain and simple. By adding these mods it will only marginally make snipers more useful while it will add powercreep to the already OP rifles. Also, the snipers shouldn't have to be equipped with 1600 worth of platinum (2 maxed primed mods) in order to even match the latron in viability. 

 

The solutions have been voiced time and time again by the collective community, yet DE continues to ignore them and makes changes based on who-knows-what. This is pretty much the "braton buff" and the "shotgun rework" all over again. For the shoguns to get buffed, it took alot of time and many threads, while for the braton prime, there was literally a thread which the sole purpose was to link to all the OTHER threads calling for a braton buff. These braton threads were massive, each having around 50-120 replies. Even so, it took about a dozen of these threads and about a year for braton to get its buff. 

 

EDIT: (to add to what hijinks said) I completely agree. primed mods should reward veterans who can dump 5-6 formas and hundreds of fusion cores without the slightest inconvenience. This would put "decent" sniper rifles out of the range of anyone who does not have more than 500 hours played. 

Edited December 8, 2015 by alfaomega04

[hijinks_the_turtle]

sure, but band-aid fix would still be better than nothing, right?

I'd rather have a real fix.  There's already some amazing suggestions in this thread.

[StickyBaseline]

Inb4 DE will never read any of our complaints and suggestions just like all other similar feedback threads mods have made on the forums.

[Swailwort]

Lanka

Pros: 525 damage

High Status

Innate Punch through of 5 meters

Pin Point accurate when scoped

Long Combo Timer

Red Crits at 12x and Reliable Crits at 7x

Cons: Not Hitscan

Hip Fire Accuracy is horrible

Long Charge Time (half of Opticor, half Damage in return)

Scope moves too much. I mean, really? You can hold a damn bow for 3 Minutes without the aim moving at all and hit head shots like nothing...

Nullifiers are still a problem.

Resolution: I'd better stick with Rakta Cernos or Opticor

Edited December 8, 2015 by Swailwort