Sniper Rifle Rework [U18 Megathread]

[DarcnyssWolfe]

Inb4 DE will never read any of our complaints and suggestions just like all other similar feedback threads mods have made on the forums.

The rework is nearly proof they don't. Hardly see any changes regarding the top requests, those being better crit chance, reload, clip size, and punch through. Nope rework is simple: Buffed your overkill Damage, killed most of your accuracy, and hey you got some new scopes to barely use. GG DE we'll see if anything really changes in another year for snipers 4.0

[BrazilianJoe]

Zoom 'buffs' are too small to warrant beyond the first zoom level IMO, if even that. 

 

Combo timer goes absolutly opposite to Sniper's spirit which are aclculated, aimed shots. 

 

 

+damage is the single 'wrongest' stat for aimed shots. Snipers should always do full damage no matter what. Aiming could do + crit chance, +crit mult, + status chance, + status duration, + punch through, + ricochet

 

 

Headshots should warrant a bullet ricochet hitting a second target doing less than full damage. Punch-through should grant additional ricochets. 

 

All snipers should have had damage buffs. 

 

Vectis Prime should have changed into a 1-bullet with less reload time and more fire rate. 

 

SNIPER REWORK IS ALL 75% WRONG. 

[LazerusKI]

All snipers should have had damage buffs. 

I think the damage values were adjusted, atleast there are a few comments in the wiki about that

[JHarlequin]

 Maybe there needs to be a sniper specific debuff in game.  As in "Any target hit by a sniper rifle is injured and takes 20-50% increased damage from all future attacks."

 

 Though most things still die instantly, anything that doesn't takes more damage from everything.  Though if the effect doesn't stack, then it will still leave the sniper right where it is against bosses.

 

 Maybe each sniper could have it's own debuff.  Some confuse the target for long durations, some cripple the target, some make the target do less damage.

 

 I am not addicted to max numbers, but most of the opinions here are right, sniper rifles, for being the slowest but supposedly most powerful weapon, should not fail to kill a target or make an impact.  When you can shoot something multiple times and do barely anything but someone else fires an arrow at the target and it drops dead instantly, there might be an issue.

[bl4ckhunter]

you made sniper rifles inaccurate as hell... gg de. i have an easier time sniping with my grakata than with a lanka, the 6-12x zoom are so wobbly that's nauseating and make ranged shots impossible to land.

[HunterFenrir]

As good as sniper rifles are, I still wait for an appropriate mission type to use them other than shooting the seargant from a distance.

[3lackrose]

Remove Hip Fire inaccuracy.. i want to use snipers but they are just not viable.

 

Zoom is too much or an hindrance in most of situations. and having to aim through the scope to hit an horde of infested chasing you is not a good idea.

 

Since Nullifiers got introduced i basically had to switch to spammable weapons like an assault / automatic rifle of bigger ammo weapons. Snipers are usually slow firing single - shot weapons, at least make them useful in picking important targets like nullifiers, toxic ancients or arctic eximus.

 

Change the critical chance or rework it, again what's the point of aiming the best you can (headshot usually) and then surprise, your hit is not even gonna crit.

 

Give them punch through and/or something useful (yes i know a couple of rifles already have that), don't really care about the scope sorry. And make them 100% accurate in any circumstance they are supposed to be precision weapons for those who are good enough to use them, at least the way i see it. And they are low ammo weapons so you don't want to play the odds with critical chance or accuracy when wasting bullets.

Edited December 9, 2015 by 3lackrose

[LazerusKI]

Remove Hip Fire inaccuracy.. i want to use snipers but they are just not viable.

 

Zoom is too much or an hindrance in most of situations. and having to aim through the scope to hit an horde of infested chasing you is not a good idea.

 

Since Nullifiers got introduced i basically had to switch to spammable weapons like an assault / automatic rifle of bigger ammo weapons. Snipers are usually slow firing single - shot weapons, at least make them useful in picking important targets like nullifiers, toxic ancients or arctic eximus.

 

Change the critical chance or rework it, again what's the point of aiming the best you can (headshot usually) and then surprise, your hit is not even gonna crit.

 

Give them punch through and/or something useful (yes i know a couple of rifles already have that), don't really care about the scope sorry. And make them 100% accurate in any circumstance they are supposed to be precision weapons for those who are good enough to use them, at least the way i see it. And they are low ammo weapons so you don't want to play the odds with critical chance or accuracy when wasting bullets.

i agree with most of that, all but "zoom is too much of an hindrance"...well...a sniper rifle...that shouldnt be able to snipe...

basically what you describe is a combat rifle, semi automatic like Latron

Edited December 9, 2015 by LazerusKI

[DarcnyssWolfe]

i agree with most of that, all but "zoom is too much of an hindrance"...well...a sniper rifle...that shouldnt be able to snipe...

basically what you describe is a combat rifle, semi automatic like Latron

Being forced to zoom with a slow firing weapon in a close quarters horde style game is a hindrance. If the snipers still had pre- nerfwork hip fire the scopes would be a welcomed addition to the few times enhanced zoom would be useful. As it is now you either zoom and aim at all ranges or you hipfire at a wall, cause right now that'll get you the same result with most hip shots.

[LazerusKI]

Being forced to zoom with a slow firing weapon in a close quarters horde style game is a hindrance. If the snipers still had pre- nerfwork hip fire the scopes would be a welcomed addition to the few times enhanced zoom would be useful. As it is now you either zoom and aim at all ranges or you hipfire at a wall, cause right now that'll get you the same result with most hip shots.

yeah but actually thats the intended use of a SNIPER Rifle.

Im kinda sick that there are so many players who want the Call of Duty Sniping, thats not the intended use of a Sniper Rifle, thats why we have a Sidearm or a Melee Weapon, or we carry a Combat Rifle or a Bow instead to use them at close range

 

Anyway, i tested the Combo Multiplier of Rubico today, and noticed something interesting.

It seems like even the first hit deals damage with the 1.5 Multiplier, so far i thought that the first one hits with 1.0 and starts the combo, the second hit then deals 1.5, the third deals 1.5 and increases to 2.0...but nope, it seems like the first and second hit with 1.5, and 3 and 4 with 2.0 then

 

oh, and the crit chance is totally garbage. seriously, i had a streak of two and a half magazines that were non-crit, man i want guaranteed critical headshots.

Edited December 9, 2015 by LazerusKI

[Hatzeputt]

Well snipers can now deal tons of damage while retaining most weaknesses. 

Some adjustments though:

 

Zoom, There should be 3 stages, 2.5x, 5x, 7.5x for all snipers (alternatively 3x,6x,9x) for all snipers. Nobody needs 12x in a game like WF.

 

Hip fire malus is too high and affects quick scoping too much. It needs to be reduced.

 

Other games might need 12x zoom and bad hip fire accuracy but those games also allow you to snipe targets 600+ yards away which is not the case in WF, hek we could do with 2 stage zoom. Better hip accuracy is needed due to getting bum rushed by mobs quite often. Bows can circumvent that problem easily, snipers can not. Nobody asks for pin point hip accuracy, just a little bit better than now and less affect on quick scoping.

 

I can live with no innate punch through and no nulli bubble penetration but the zoom issues and hip fire quick scoping should be addressed.     

[LuftWaifu]

One thing that might help make sniper rifles a whole lot more satisfying is giving them a smoke trail (which is your weapon energy color on the first frame then rapidly fades to gray and expands) and making headshot kills explode heads.

 

yeah but actually thats the intended use of a SNIPER Rifle.

Im kinda sick that there are so many players who want the Call of Duty Sniping, thats not the intended use of a Sniper Rifle, thats why we have a Sidearm or a Melee Weapon, or we carry a Combat Rifle or a Bow instead to use them at close range

 

There's nowhere to properly snipe in warframe. This is like adding a dragonslayer sword to the game then making it do 0 damage because you aren't fighting dragons. Giving some bonuses to scoped fire (guaranteed crits on headshot is a good idea) would be great, but it should still be able to noscope the smaller enemies without any trouble. After all, tenno are cyber ninja space wizards. Them being worse with a rifle than a CoD grunt would just be embarrassing.

[coreyh2]

I'd like it if the "quick-scoping" accuracy would be improved. The amount of time I have to be scoped in to take a accucate shot is too long.

 

I'd also prefer scoping had nothing to do with accuracy unless it was pvp.

Edited December 10, 2015 by coreyh2

[are2dude]

Remove the nerfs:

1. Remove scope sway.

2. Remove hip fire inaccuracy.

 

The actual buff:

3. Reliable damage: At least base 40% crit chance. Also Innate 10% multishot to make it reliable with split chamber.

4. Innate punchthrough.

5. Nullifier shield bypass: Would make snipers a viable counter to nullifiers.

6. Finisher damage on headshots: Increases effectiveness against armored targets.

7. Remove the timed reset from the combo multiplier: Combo lasts until you miss a shot.

 

Additional ideas I would like to see:

8. Remove the bonuses from different zoom levels and instead tie them to a secondary timed combo multiplier that maxes out after 3 shots. Also halves reload time if your magazine ends while the combo is up.

9. X-ray scope that highlights enemies through walls like codex scanner.

10. Different scopes with different zoom level options. Or let us manually set the zoom levels for our scopes.

[DarcnyssWolfe]

Remove the nerfs:

1. Remove scope sway.

2. Remove hip fire inaccuracy.

The actual buff:

3. Reliable damage: At least base 40% crit chance. Also Innate 10% multishot to make it reliable with split chamber.

4. Innate punchthrough.

5. Nullifier shield bypass: Would make snipers a viable counter to nullifiers.

6. Finisher damage on headshots: Increases effectiveness against armored targets.

7. Remove the timed reset from the combo multiplier: Combo lasts until you miss a shot.

Additional ideas I would like to see:

8. Remove the bonuses from different zoom levels and instead tie them to a secondary timed combo multiplier that maxes out after 3 shots. Also halves reload time if your magazine ends while the combo is up.

9. X-ray scope that highlights enemies through walls like codex scanner.

10. Different scopes with different zoom level options. Or let us manually set the zoom levels for our scopes.

If they did all this I would cry with joy as they would have finally did things right. That in mind, wont ever happen cause DE doesn't seem to like simplistic, reasonable, effective and awesome ideas. Case in point complicating snipers with this nerfwork.

[Nira]

I'd have been happy with just giving all the "true" sniper rifles (both versions of Vectis, Lanka, Vulkar, and whatever the new one's called) a base 40% critical chance. Enough so that a maxed Point Strike will give a guaranteed critical, every shot. Could even tone down status chance to compensate if necessary.

 

The zoom overhauls are interesting and everything, but I don't think it's what was needed.

[Harrycan]

Remove the nerfs:

1. Remove scope sway.

2. Remove hip fire inaccuracy.

 

The actual buff:

3. Reliable damage: At least base 40% crit chance. Also Innate 10% multishot to make it reliable with split chamber.

4. Innate punchthrough.

5. Nullifier shield bypass: Would make snipers a viable counter to nullifiers.

6. Finisher damage on headshots: Increases effectiveness against armored targets.

7. Remove the timed reset from the combo multiplier: Combo lasts until you miss a shot.

 

Additional ideas I would like to see:

8. Remove the bonuses from different zoom levels and instead tie them to a secondary timed combo multiplier that maxes out after 3 shots. Also halves reload time if your magazine ends while the combo is up.

9. X-ray scope that highlights enemies through walls like codex scanner.

10. Different scopes with different zoom level options. Or let us manually set the zoom levels for our scopes.

Add reload timer by hit R twice, the second time if you hit it right will cut away 2/3 reload time, around the point is areas that cut 1/3 reload time, and outside of it, reload time x1.5.

Edited December 11, 2015 by Harrycan

[Nira]

Well I've quite a play around with my Lanka. Firstly, its innate punch-through seems to be back (yay!). Secondly, the variable zoom is more useful than I initially gave it credit for.

 

*Rather late edit* And whilst the max zoom setting is quite impractical for most things, it was rather novel seeing my fav sniper produce its first red crit ^_^

 

Still not sold on the combo/zoom multiplier damage concept. Seems a bit convoluted. As myself and others have stated, would have just preferred a more reliable base crit chance.

Edited December 12, 2015 by Dualice

[RayPerth]

Please remove scope sway, it made me sick when using Lanka, actually sick.

[(PSN)HELLHOUND_ROCKO]

just had an Idea: by Logic, don't Sniper Rifles actually have to be the sole most powerful Weapons there are to have them balanced in a Game thats Gameplay supports Sniper Rifles the very least? 

 

BTW - this Sniper Kill Combo System the way it is now seems to me a super wrong idea because it's so logical that in an Environment Low-Level enough that one can build up the Kill-Count fast enough to build up the Combo Damage Bonus - one doesn't really have any much of use for that Damage Bonus in the first place anyway - while in an Environment High-Level enough to make the Combo Damage Bonus useful, one cannot really build up the Kill-Count fast enough anyway, especially as the different Reload Speeds among Sniper Rifles don't simply pause the Combo Timer - imbalancing stuff even further... . 

[Kainosh]

I need this:

 

-No scope sway while crouched

 

-Instant precision when scoping (It takes a moment to apply when you scope now).

[LazerusKI]

just had an Idea: by Logic, don't Sniper Rifles actually have to be the sole most powerful Weapons there are to have them balanced in a Game thats Gameplay supports Sniper Rifles the very least? 

 

BTW - this Sniper Kill Combo System the way it is now seems to me a super wrong idea because it's so logical that in an Environment Low-Level enough that one can build up the Kill-Count fast enough to build up the Combo Damage Bonus - one doesn't really have any much of use for that Damage Bonus in the first place anyway - while in an Environment High-Level enough to make the Combo Damage Bonus useful, one cannot really build up the Kill-Count fast enough anyway, especially as the different Reload Speeds among Sniper Rifles don't simply pause the Combo Timer - imbalancing stuff even further... . 

I think the Current Combosystem would fit better for weapons like Latron, Semi Auto Rifles, but NOT for Sniper Rifles

[SeEnCreaTive]

Finally got some time in with snipers. Still undecided for the most part, but

Hip fire is actually brutal. Considering I was fighting why it should be inaccurate, which I still stand by, but I think it's a bit too inaccurate. Standing 6 inches away hip firing a sniper, you'd think it would hit. But its a bad feeling when you are that close and miss.

I have a feeling it has partly to do with how firing works. Many times with my Quanta V the enemy can be nearly behind me, but in my camera, and I hit them. Showing hit scan doesn't originate from the gun but the camera instead.

That being said, hip fire is I think still too wide. Don't make it accurate, but narrow it enough where 6 inches isn't a complete total dice roll.

[Epicagemo]

Please give us thermal vision mod! (Codex/Simaris Scanner highlights)

Would be game changing for stealth sniper play.

 

[(PSN)VariantX7]

Ever since this was demoed on one of the dev streams about the only good thing I can say about it is that the HUD's are an improvement. Everything else about the rework seems to either have missed the point of what the community was asking for or added an unnecessary crutch to using the weapons effectively. 

 

-Snipers did not need more damage, the last buff you gave them made them quite powerful enough to actually kill things more consistently, the main problem being that isn't even enough.  Its not enough when warframe likes to throw dozens of targets at you, and they're rushing your position. It doesn't matter if you did 500k damage per shot, when you've got a massive chunk of time between your shots and reload times. They're going to overwhelm your position, period. Why? Because you cant kill the targets fast enough, and even the ones you've already killed have just already been replaced anyway so the number of targets never goes down.

 

-Snipers need utility, which this update did not provide. Notice how no one complains about bows? Its because despite their slow fire rates, they have utility in some situations. They're great at killing single targets like snipers should be, but they arent subject to reloads, and can kill multiple targets with a single shot in certain situations such as narrow hallways and doors and they're silent, which is great for stealth operations. The charge time and bullet drop are their negatives but they've balanced by their positives.

 

You've added a bunch of negatives to a weapon that didn't have many positives to begin with. You've added a damage system that requires the player to be zoomed in to take advantage of it, even though 90-95% of Warframe will have you dealing with stuff less than 20m away most of the time. Suddenly hip-fire is broken, forcing us to zoom in. The combo system is completely counter-intuitive to what sniper rifles are, weapons that require patience and time to identify the most effective(high-priority) targets to shoot at to disrupt the enemy's formation. A time-limited combo system does not allow for the slightest bit of patience, which again, keeps you from using the weapon to its full potential, and would be better to just build up damage for "time zoomed in" like how it works in TF2. I say this because in this state, you trade peripheral vision and awareness for the ability to do more damage. 

 

-Snipers should have their own "thunderbolt" like family of mods. Mods that have a chance to do stuff on headshot kill. Some do small clouds of poison gas on kill, freezing mist, panic effect, reduce reload time, etc. 

 

A ton of folks way before me spoke on things like punchthrough and consistency/reliability, and I couldn't even think of a single word to add to it.

Edited December 14, 2015 by (PS4)VariantX7