Raiq Posted December 20, 2015 Share Posted December 20, 2015 (edited) Firstly, I don't like being forced to use a gender specific skin to explore content. And no, saying that Tenno don't necessarily have a gender and that a warframe doesn't imply one does not counter the point that I, a human player who does have a gender, don't like to have a gender chosen for me, on my in game avatars. Secondly, I also find some Warframe skins really stupid in appearance, but want to explore the gameplay associated with them, whilst others are really cool in appearance but I'm not interested in their gameplay. There are already a number of appearance customisations and extras possible for each warframe so insisting on warframe powers being linked to specific warframe skins is not really that compelling. Plus, this is a game, and I like playing with an avatar that reflects my personal choices as much as possible, not ones forced on me. Forcing choices on me undermines immersion and that undermines my desire to play. As warframes of both genders do exist, and cool skinned warframes and cool power/gameplay warframes do exist, what I am asking for is possible. Lastly, this is not a declaration of war on all those who like the status quo. Just a declaration of my growing frustration with the game as more and more warframes get added with cool concepts I would like to explore but with skins that I really cant stand. Combine that with the gender locking and it actively undermines my desire to play. Your avatars in a game are the "content" you will stare at and interact with most. Its to the developers advantage to make that as appealing and immersive as possible to a player. Doing so will make it much easier for players to focus on gameplay instead of the grind they have to overcome to finally get something they both like the look and powers of. Not doing so makes the grind even harder to ignore. Edited December 20, 2015 by Raiq Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)IIIDevoidIII Posted December 20, 2015 Share Posted December 20, 2015 Bit of a spoiler. I'm not sure if you have played through U18's Second Dream, yet, or not, but from what I'm reading, what you'll discover there would seem, to me at least, to make most of your request and reasoning behind your post irrelevant. Unless there is more to what you're trying to say? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raiq Posted December 20, 2015 Author Share Posted December 20, 2015 I'll check that out, if it makes my post irrelevant/redundant then that's good news for me. I'll happily update the thread if that turns out to be the case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 20, 2015 Share Posted December 20, 2015 Bit of a spoiler. I'm not sure if you have played through U18's Second Dream, yet, or not, but from what I'm reading, what you'll discover there would seem, to me at least, to make most of your request and reasoning behind your post irrelevant. Unless there is more to what you're trying to say? Tbh a simple yet time consuming fix to this would be DE could add gender skins to all of the warframes. For instance you could have a female rhino, a male trinity, ember, etc. Granted it would probably take DE a long time to implement such skins with minimal clipping/stance issues but it could definitely be done and it would certainly net them some brownie points from a lot of players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Misgenesis Posted December 20, 2015 Share Posted December 20, 2015 You dont seem to like the design direction of Warframe so you cant really blame DE for it. As for the gender thing, ugh.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdunSaveMe Posted December 20, 2015 Share Posted December 20, 2015 (edited) There are already a number of appearance customisations and extras possible for each warframe so insisting on warframe powers being linked to specific warframe skins is not really that compelling. This isn't an RPG where you get to pick your gender, your looks and your abilities all separate from each other. The Warframes are like their own characters, just how you'd pick them in a MOBA or fighting game or whatever. The abilities and design are tied to a Warframe's identity and theme. Why would a Warframe that literally looks like fungus be throwing out waves of ice? If you dislike it, that's a shame, but it isn't going to change. Warframes will (and always should) continue to have their own identity. The devs do not want to add different gendered versions of Warframes, and it's a lot of work just to please a small amount of people who can't handle their characters not being custom-made to suit them in a game that has practically nothing in terms of roleplaying. Not every game needs to have that option. Edited December 20, 2015 by AdunSaveMe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FrostSpecter Posted December 20, 2015 Share Posted December 20, 2015 I've got no problems with the gender thing. I am male; my favorite warframes are Nova and Mirage because of their abilities. That all being said... ...I always thought it would be a cool idea to have a Warframe 'skeleton' and skin it however we like. So you can get the 'powers' of one Warframe with the looks of another. The looks would be equippable. I realize this would be a witch to implement and would never happen. Nevertheless, I still thought it'd be cool. TL;DR - having powers and looks separate would be cool, but I love the game as it is now, too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zaxiade Posted December 20, 2015 Share Posted December 20, 2015 (edited) I couldn't care how things looked. Being able to customize anything, that's a bonus to me, and that's pretty much it. Edited December 20, 2015 by zaxiade Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
s3b4st13n Posted December 20, 2015 Share Posted December 20, 2015 (edited) <snip> If you dislike it, that's a shame, but it isn't going to change. Warframes will (and always should) continue to have their own identity. The devs do not want to add different gendered versions of Warframes, <snip> Well they do, but from what I've read (somewhere on the forums) they'd rather have a male-version but with different abilities, like Nezah; from what I've read and seen, he is basically the male-equivalent of Ember in that they share an element: fire. Edited December 20, 2015 by Kenboushou Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaotyke Posted December 20, 2015 Share Posted December 20, 2015 Tbh a simple yet time consuming fix to this would be DE could add gender skins to all of the warframes. For instance you could have a female rhino, a male trinity, ember, etc. Granted it would probably take DE a long time to implement such skins with minimal clipping/stance issues but it could definitely be done and it would certainly net them some brownie points from a lot of players. If TVTropes is right, Rhino has the largest chest in the game. I now have a faint suspicion as for why people want gender skins.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdunSaveMe Posted December 20, 2015 Share Posted December 20, 2015 Well they do, but from what I've read (somewhere on the forums) they'd rather have a male-version but with different abilities, like Nezah; from what I've read and seen, he is basically the male-equivalent of Ember in that they share an element: fire. Those would be a similar theme in both design and abilities. Nezha's only shared trait with Ember is the element; the Warframe's actual visual design, the abilities, the synergy and the overall purpose are entirely different. It's like saying Ivara is the female version of Loki, because she can go invisible and distract enemies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raiq Posted December 20, 2015 Author Share Posted December 20, 2015 @AdunSaveMe You also didn't actually specify what you're asking for.Actually, its in the OP. And you already seem to be arguing against it anyway, so... not sure why you are asking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vali Posted December 20, 2015 Share Posted December 20, 2015 Yeah, you should do the Second Dream quest. In total, the logic behind the gender locked frames is that in lore they are built based off an original Tenno as stated in the Excalibur codex. So every frame we use is a portrayal of that original Tenno, not ourselves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anatolius Posted December 20, 2015 Share Posted December 20, 2015 (edited) Petpeeve: Using gender and sex interchangeably Gender refers to the (mental) state at which a being considers their preferences and this extends further than male and female Sex is physical and generally cant be changed without medication or surgery. Male or female. Edited December 20, 2015 by Anatolius Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
s3b4st13n Posted December 20, 2015 Share Posted December 20, 2015 Those would be a similar theme in both design and abilities. Nezha's only shared trait with Ember is the element; the Warframe's actual visual design, the abilities, the synergy and the overall purpose are entirely different. It's like saying Ivara is the female version of Loki, because she can go invisible and distract enemies. Which I believe is the entire point. Loki is stealth, Ivara is stealth - she is the female-equivalent of Loki. Or at least, that's what I got from what I read on the forums. Just reiterating. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpicyDinosaur Posted December 20, 2015 Share Posted December 20, 2015 (edited) So much fragility. This is not the direction Warframe has taken, and the amount of overhaul to fix some players's insecurities, well probably best to check out MMOs where secondary sex characteristics are always pronounced and you can choose your gender/powers. This isn't even particularly new. With gender perhaps. Which is probably what is making some people uncomfortable. Perhaps we should examine what makes us uncomfortable about this instead of jumping to change it, however. As an example of restrictions, EQ restricts class by race. I started off as a troll, and had to play a shaman, instead of a rogue or necromancer (nowadays I'd play a berserker, and I have just that, but my main remains a shaman, and my rogue is a gnome.) ESO, btw, does not have these restrictions, but has maybe 4 classes. Edit: I always incorrectly use gender and sex and apologies for that. I get which means which muddled in my brain a lot for some reason. Edited December 20, 2015 by SpicyDinosaur Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anatolius Posted December 20, 2015 Share Posted December 20, 2015 Which I believe is the entire point. Loki is stealth, Ivara is stealth - she is the female-equivalent of Loki. Or at least, that's what I got from what I read on the forums. Just reiterating. But Banshee is also stealth Is she Loki's aunt? (Also loki isnt stealth he is manipulation) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krisvek Posted December 20, 2015 Share Posted December 20, 2015 I doesn't seem to me that your idea fits with the vision that DE has for their game. Plenty of games have specific characters with fixed genders, fixed powers, etc. Some of the most popular right now, the MOBA-style games, have been doing things very similarly, and it appears to be working just fine for those. The warframes aren't blank slates, they're characters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpicyDinosaur Posted December 20, 2015 Share Posted December 20, 2015 But Banshee is also stealth Is she Loki's aunt? (Also loki isnt stealth he is manipulation) Banshee is not stealth and Loki definitely is. Can't really be stealth if you are constantly seen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
s3b4st13n Posted December 20, 2015 Share Posted December 20, 2015 (edited) But Banshee is also stealth Is she Loki's aunt? (Also loki isnt stealth he is manipulation) Point taken. My overall point though, was DE wants to make alternate-gender versions of existing Warframes but with different look, different feel, different abilities using the same element as their opposite-gender counter part. :) Edited December 20, 2015 by Kenboushou Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raiq Posted December 20, 2015 Author Share Posted December 20, 2015 So much fragility. This is not the direction Warframe has taken, and the amount of overhaul to fix some players's insecurities, well probably best to check out MMOs where secondary sex characteristics are always pronounced and you can choose your gender/powers. This isn't even particularly new. With gender perhaps. Which is probably what is making some people uncomfortable. Perhaps we should examine what makes us uncomfortable about this instead of jumping to change it, however. As an example of restrictions, EQ restricts class by race. I started off as a troll, and had to play a shaman, instead of a rogue or necromancer (nowadays I'd play a berserker, and I have just that, but my main remains a shaman, and my rogue is a gnome.) ESO, btw, does not have these restrictions, but has maybe 4 classes. Edit: I always incorrectly use gender and sex and apologies for that. I get which means which muddled in my brain a lot for some reason. I think the fragility goes both ways, which makes the point moot. Surely you are strong enough to discuss a different point of view, or just one you dont agree with, without having to resort to condescension to make a point? Its nothing to do with insecurities (although i assume your condescension that it must be so is to do with your own fragility in reasonable discussion?). Its simply to do with preference/escapism/immersion. Thats all. Thats a lot of what entertainment is about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ancibion Posted December 20, 2015 Share Posted December 20, 2015 IMHO, will never happen. Every frame got its own lore and it does affect its appearance. So no. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anatolius Posted December 20, 2015 Share Posted December 20, 2015 Banshee is not stealth and Loki definitely is. Can't really be stealth if you are constantly seen. Nah son Loki is built FOR stealth but that isnt his original theme He is manipulation Banshee was designed, packaged, and advertised as a stealth warframe, she just happens to be outclassed by Loki because his one stealth orientated ability is better overall than the 2 stealth abilities she has. Doesnt mean she isnt stealth, its just that no one uses her for that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ivlr3vil Posted December 20, 2015 Share Posted December 20, 2015 (edited) Its nothing to do with insecurities (although i assume your condescension that it must be so is to do with your own fragility in reasonable discussion?). Its simply to do with preference/escapism/immersion. Thats all. Thats a lot of what entertainment is about. The Second Dream will basically tell you "No, this is not going to happen and this is why." Ever wonder why you had voice chat in game and the Tenno had no voice? I feel the changes only satisfies people like you that make this thread and ruins the immersion for players like me that already figured out how it works because of the codex. I'm afraid you'll have mixed feelings on this one after you learn the truth anyway, I feel the quest has only ruined the immersion for me. Read the spoiler after you finish the quest and then come back to me. I always believed I'm the Tenno and that the Warframes are suits and that my voice chat is my own real voice, hence they are voiceless. The quest ruined all that, gave me a Tenno that I switched to a female because everytime I see my focus tree I don't want to see a guy staring romantically into my soul (I don't swing that way, sorry). And the Tenno is basically a character model on a chair that doesn't move, sound familiar? That's what we do in real life. So in short, now I have my own voice and a character voice that talks back to me, it was so annoying and covering enemies in my screen that I disabled her. If they want to make it immersive, they shouldn't give them a voice at all. And my GOD those voices and responses to the Lotus were so weird, it broke the immersion even further. So there you go guys, you can all be happy with your gender customization semi androgynous feature, what we've lost was the true immersion experience, our true selves being the Tenno. Edited December 20, 2015 by ivlr3vil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anatolius Posted December 20, 2015 Share Posted December 20, 2015 Point taken. My overall point though, was DE wants to make alternate-gender versions of existing Warframes but with different look, different feel, different abilities using the same element as their opposite-gender counter part. :) This is the vibe I'm getting from DE too. I dont think we will be seeing female rhino. Ye eue Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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