The Synoid Simulor Appears To Really Need A Rebalance

[(XBOX)RIOTx420]

So your saying it's better then the S. Tigris ?

[(PSN)DBR87]

The Synoid Simular is not OP. It has great crowd control but the range is crap. You can still get one shotted by a high level bombard if you're not paying attention and there are weapons that can one shot hardened enemies, groups of them eve, that the S. Simular will never be able to.

 

Yeah, it's a good weapon. But it recuires MR 12 and there are weapons that kill things a lot faster. Yeah, you can destroy Draco with it but I could take a 5 forma Braton Prime to Draco doesn't mean Braton Prime is broken.

 

The gun has great crowd control and it restores energy. But other weapons will kill faster at higher levels.

[(PSN)CL_Poloboyzz93]

So your saying it's better then the S. Tigris ?

To be honest, starchart and even raid wise, yes. I am big shotgun user too but havent used the vaykor hek or sancti tigris in a long while after using the synoid. No reason to. Yeah, the Hek and Sancti are balanced how weapons SHOULD be, or at least damn close to it. The synoid is just a win button without any effort at ALL. People know it they just don't wanna see a nerf. 

Edited January 7, 2016 by (PS4)Poloboyzz93

[(PSN)CL_Poloboyzz93]

Tonkor is way more of an issue, Tonkor is a launcher who out classes every other launchers and grenade launchers, in terms of damage, ammo capacity and on top of it all it does reduce damage to the operator. It could be nerfed again, such is the circle of life of launchers (Ogris, Penta, etc)

 

Tonkor is the only weapon that ever worried me, its just so much better compared to anything else even rifles 

Well that gun is a problem all in it's own. Deserves a whole seperate topic.  

[Kai_Shiba]

You're exaggerating way too much. It's almost to the point where you just lose credibility from your original post.

[Rionat]

High level toys are just that HIGH LEVEL toys. They're meant to be strong and powerful just like the Tonkor, and Sancti Tigris. If they're gonna nerf all the strong viable weapons you might as well take out progression and make it so that a MK1 Braton can out perform a rank 12 mastery weapon

 

I still stand behind the idea that weapons that are hard to obtain or have some kind of level requirement should be decently powerful. Why? Because if its not even enticing why the F*** would it make people pursue them aside from the ego stroking

Edited January 7, 2016 by Rionat

[Urlan]

Personally I think the Synoid Simulor is a fine weapon and not 'unbalanced' by any stretch of means. Its damage is in line with similar heavy weapons and requires heavy investments to gain or even use. While I think that your personal stance is valid, that you dislike the weapon for being too powerful for your playstyle, I do not think that it trivializes the game any more than allowing Trinity in trials makes trials too easy for player teams.

[Leuca]

Bottom line is for the MOST played activities in the game, the gun wipes through most of them

there are plenty of other weapons that accomplish this, as well as frames.

[Tesseract7777]

If you want to nerf Sudalor you need to nerf  A LOT of other weapons that are even more OP and even better at clearing huge crowds with no consequences at all. 

 

And that's what's ridiculous about this thread. 

 

Someone brought up the argument that many guns like Tonkor are even more OP, and you dismissed that valid argument by saying "this thread isn't for Tonkor", which shows the OP utterly misses their own point. 

 

Comparing other weapons is totally relevant to this thread, so don't go telling people to "start a new thread about the Tonkor", if they bring up a comparison. You, the OP, need to explain why the Sudalor should be nerfed over so many other equally or more OP guns like the Tonkor. 

 

The burden is on the OP to explain that, and saying "I have used Sudalor and it is so op more than anything else" is not an argument. It's the OP's personal opinion. 

 

Let's see an actual argument of any kind from the OP because we haven't seen yet. Just them stating their opinion as fact. Another day on the forums. 

 

 

there are plenty of other weapons that accomplish this, as well as frames.

 

Exactly. I have seen nothing from the OP that suggest even remotely (beyond his personal feelings) why this weapon should be nerfed over the pile of other similarly OP weapons. 

 

I'm not the type who is kneejerk against the idea of a nerf at all for anything, but it needs a good reason beyond "omg it feels so strong and powerful oh noes it must need nerfed". 

Edited January 8, 2016 by Tesseract7777

[Cephalon_Ordis]

You reach a point? Unless you are talking 70+ minutes in Survival, I can't agree. At 60, I wasn't complaining still. Bottom line is for the MOST played activities in the game, the gun wipes through most of them, i.e raid, draco, regular planet missions, anyways I've said my share, 1st poster knew it was OP and plenty have said it in the past, i'm going to leave the topic alone :]

let's nerf the synoid simulor,

 

let's nerf sancti tigris,

 

let's nerf vaykor hek,

 

let's nerf the tonkor,

 

Excalibur? nah, nerf him.

 

Ash? He doesn't need finisher damage.

 

you know that one heavy blade? war? yeah, let's nerf that too.

 

it's not like some people want to go into the endgame stuff in survival.

Edited January 8, 2016 by nasem007

[Naqel]

it's not like some people want to go into the endgame stuff in survival.

 

Endgame should not rely on abuse of poor balance.

Nor should "endgame" content invalidate the content that comes before it.

 

Endgame should be difficult because it requires skill and coordination, not because it requires specific equipment.

[Jangkrik]

Dear forum members,

 

Y U no ask for buffs? Y U always ask for nerfs?

 

Nerfs will just increase the number of mastery fodders in the game. On the other hand, buffs will increase the number of viable equipment in the game.

[AntLion]

Endgame should not rely on abuse of poor balance.

Nor should "endgame" content invalidate the content that comes before it.

 

Endgame should be difficult because it requires skill and coordination, not because it requires specific equipment.

Let's fix that poor balanced engame content and only after that talk about our guns. :P

Nerfing good things before resolving core problems will just remove all fun and reason to play Warframe.

[ShortCat]

Let's fix that poor balanced engame content and only after that talk about our guns. :P

Nerfing good things before resolving core problems will just remove all fun and reason to play Warframe.

Well, the scaling actually works well untill lvl 50ish. There is no need to rebalance all the enemies in the game, if the same result can be accomplished by reducing some numbers on weapons, mods and powers. Then a 20 minutes T4S run would be a nice and hard game-experience(how it should be) and only well coordinated  groups could go beyond that mark or complete sorties.

Noone will cry the game is too easy when you cannot oneshot a lvl 100 unit with S.Tigris.

[HAYABU5A]

how can we even talk about the synoid simulor if the tonkor exists ?

 

its like asking to remove a small pimple instead of the massive cancer tumor next to it 

[(PSN)Gaelic-_-Flame]

how can we even talk about the synoid simulor if the tonkor exists ?

 

its like asking to remove a small pimple instead of the massive cancer tumor next to it 

Well, they are both pretty terrible for balance. One is extreme damage crowd killer, but at least you have to aim a bit. The other one is probably the only weapon in the game that you don't have to aim at all. In fact you can sit around the corner shooting one spot to kill all your enemies. Or you can kill them through the wall before they actually come to you. You can also hold multiple passages in a not too big of a room, so no one can come into it.

[Ziegrif]

i use that gun quite a lot, and i'd just like to point out that i often reach a point where it doesn't do enough damage to be worthwhile. it's a good weapon, but i wouldn't call it OP

 

Use Mirage with it and that dmg problem goes poof!

[Naqel]

Nerfs will just increase the number of mastery fodders in the game. On the other hand, buffs will increase the number of viable equipment in the game.

 

That's so backwards my brain hurts.

 

90% of gear is considered mastery fodder because the 10% is overshadowing it.

Toning down the 10% that's too strong to be in line with the average, is 9 times less work than reworking the entire game just so that those 10% of weapons don't get "nerfed"

 

If there's something below the average/target power level, sure, that should be buffed, but Synoid Simulor, is definitely not the average, nor the target.

 

 

Nerfing good things before resolving core problems will just remove all fun and reason to play Warframe.

 

See above.

Just because endgame becomes a bit harder to cheese through with a no-longer-broken weapon, does not mean the game is magically less fun.

 

Not to mention that "core problems" includes the outright idiotic idea that nerfs are bad.

At this point, even if enemies lost 90% of their HP, people would still whine if the weapons lost 80% damage to compensate, even though relatively speaking, guns would be twice as powerful.

 

The mentality has to change, failing that, DE should at least find the gut to implement healthy changes despite the backlash of the uneducated masses.

Edited January 8, 2016 by Naqel

[bubbabenali]

Use Mirage with it and that dmg problem goes poof!

Lol, as if Mirage would make every weapon in the game OP - oh wait she does...

[(PSN)CL_Poloboyzz93]

 

If you want to nerf Sudalor you need to nerf  A LOT of other weapons that are even more OP and even better at clearing huge crowds with no consequences at all. 

 

And that's what's ridiculous about this thread. 

 

Someone brought up the argument that many guns like Tonkor are even more OP, and you dismissed that valid argument by saying "this thread isn't for Tonkor", which shows the OP utterly misses their own point. 

 

Comparing other weapons is totally relevant to this thread, so don't go telling people to "start a new thread about the Tonkor", if they bring up a comparison. You, the OP, need to explain why the Sudalor should be nerfed over so many other equally or more OP guns like the Tonkor. 

 

The burden is on the OP to explain that, and saying "I have used Sudalor and it is so op more than anything else" is not an argument. It's the OP's personal opinion. 

 

Let's see an actual argument of any kind from the OP because we haven't seen yet. Just them stating their opinion as fact. Another day on the forums. 

 

 

 

Exactly. I have seen nothing from the OP that suggest even remotely (beyond his personal feelings) why this weapon should be nerfed over the pile of other similarly OP weapons. 

 

I'm not the type who is kneejerk against the idea of a nerf at all for anything, but it needs a good reason beyond "omg it feels so strong and powerful oh noes it must need nerfed". 

 

I've spent the last day explaining why, with actual facts bro. Yes, I could tell you a million issues (Gunwise) that DE is having, The Tonkor is amongst it, I'm not going to nitpick every single gun, because as I said, some deserve a different topic all together. At the BASE of things, other guns have to at LEAST be aimed, the reason why I would never put the S Tigris up is because IMO  - you actually have to have some form of aim skill to line up punch through with a small 2-4 clip size to max it's CC potential. The Simulor can be modded up to an 18 CLIP- of spammable balls that stagger on det, deal insane amounts of damage, and can manually stun proc on TOP of stagger on det. All in like 15m radius, which is alot of room for aim error.. dude, we're not playing battlefield here...The most common endgame tilesets are made up of dozen small to med sized rooms. Not to mention you can literally camp those and shoot through walls around corners, and still nuke. Now add a syndicate proc that restores a bit of energy to a gun that FARMS procs (its killing so much that you can literally rely on the syndicate proc going of DOZENS of times. This gun AMONGST many others are OP, endgame cheese. Now I'm not saying nerf it dead, I'm saying, finely tune the gun. Guns like the Soma P, Boltor P, bring a Normal balanced "endgame" atmosphere to the game, guns like the Tonkor and Simulor turn the game into a scary sight. Some people like unbalance because it's fun, well some people actually take balance in a MMO type game serious..

Edited January 8, 2016 by (PS4)Poloboyzz93

[Otenko]

What are you talking about? Either I'm missing something or need to try the similor series of weapons again because when I tried the regular similor it was the most painful weapon I have ever used. Its range was terrible, its explosion radius is average, it takes time before you can even do significant dmg.

 

About the only thing going for it was its looks, other then that it was just gimmiky.

I can't imagine the synoid similor is that different, save maybe it actually does worthwhile dmg now, which still in no way justifies its god awful mechanics and its complete impracticality.

Synoid Simulor got pretty very nice buffs over the original. The arsenal naturally doesn't show blast radius, but the Synoid Simulor got a huge range increase on explosions. I'm pretty sure the range increase applies to both manual detonation as well as combining projectiles, but I'm certain the combined projectiles got the range increase (something like 7m on the Simulor to 11m on the Synoid). The wiki says it has the highest explosion radius of all launcher weapons, to put the buff in perspective.

 

The range increase also means that the damage fall-off from the center of the explosion is more lenient, since you don't have to be dead-on, balls-accurate to get decent damage with the Synoid.

 

It also got a reload decrease (from 3s to 2s) and a fire rate increase (2 to 2.67), which makes Vile Acceleration work that much better for the Synoid version. It also has a damage boost, but I haven't personally compared the damage of each of them.

 

Not to mention that "core problems" includes the outright idiotic idea that nerfs are bad.

At this point, even if enemies lost 90% of their HP, people would still whine if the weapons lost 80% damage to compensate, even though relatively speaking, guns would be twice as powerful.

 

The mentality has to change, failing that, DE should at least find the gut to implement healthy changes despite the backlash of the uneducated masses.

Yeah, I agree. DE is pretty courteous to its players and I'm fairly sure it makes them hesitant to implement any changes that weaken an item/ability, even if it is warranted.

 

They really need to stick to their guns and just make the changes. The issues are only going to be exacerbated as time goes on.

[Wevi]

Well, the scaling actually works well untill lvl 50ish. There is no need to rebalance all the enemies in the game, if the same result can be accomplished by reducing some numbers on weapons, mods and powers. Then a 20 minutes T4S run would be a nice and hard game-experience(how it should be) and only well coordinated  groups could go beyond that mark or complete sorties.

Noone will cry the game is too easy when you cannot oneshot a lvl 100 unit with S.Tigris.

And that's why 40% of the community runs valkyr and rhino everywhere. Actually finding a competent void squad or repubbing for a competent sortie squad should not be an issue. There are somethings that are capped and then there are somethings that scale infidelity making other tactics obsolete.

Edited January 8, 2016 by xxcib21xx

[dmirtygorachyov]

It is OP, it's not going to get nerfed though I think, only the true endgamers know its true potential. 

[StinkyPygmy]

Synoid Simulor got pretty very nice buffs over the original. The arsenal naturally doesn't show blast radius, but the Synoid Simulor got a huge range increase on explosions. I'm pretty sure the range increase applies to both manual detonation as well as combining projectiles, but I'm certain the combined projectiles got the range increase (something like 7m on the Simulor to 11m on the Synoid). The wiki says it has the highest explosion radius of all launcher weapons, to put the buff in perspective.

 

The range increase also means that the damage fall-off from the center of the explosion is more lenient, since you don't have to be dead-on, balls-accurate to get decent damage with the Synoid.

 

It also got a reload decrease (from 3s to 2s) and a fire rate increase (2 to 2.67), which makes Vile Acceleration work that much better for the Synoid version. It also has a damage boost, but I haven't personally compared the damage of each of them.

 

I knew it got significant buffs over the first but I'm not convinced its shortcomings aren't enough to make it not OP. Granted I havn't used the synoid similor, but I still see no reason why it needs to be nerf yet or how its OP, and I've played with others using it and the only reason noticed was because of all the cool shiny vortexes everywhere.

 

Just to be clear I'm a strong advocate for both nerfs and buffs WHERE APPROPRIATE AND IN MODERATION.

Its just that in this case you could argue basically all weapons and frames are potentially OP till level 60+ enemies.

 

On a related note, nerfing/buffing things are the least of WF problems. Ultimately these things wont matter and scaling of weapons vs mobs wont matter till WFs difficulty stops being almost entirely reliant on numbers and junk.

Until theres more focus on dynamic mission types and enemy mechanics etc, then the forums will forever being having the old nerf vs buff debate, (which is at its core full of holes because only being one or the other cannot work and is not how balance works).

Nerf the synoid similor and another even more "OP" weapon will take its place. don't nerf it super hard and we might keep power creep at bay for a while longer.

At this stage I personally still cannot see in what world its OP as there are so many other weapons that outclass it with no thought and weapons that in the right hands, can outclass it just as much.

Edited January 8, 2016 by StinkyPygmy

[(PSN)brandyn36]

I main Mirage with a HOM and Eclipse build and use only the s.simulor i get over 70% of team damage 99% of the time, only problem is no one will play more than one match with me lol. I hope they dont nerf it but at the same time if they do at least ill use differnt weapons for a change. P.S this combo is amazing for focus gain iv got over 50K in less than an hour doing dark sector excavation.