Can Someone Please Explain/defend The Prime Vault?

[Corvyr]

As a new player of about three days, it just appears like this is an unnecessary inconvenience to me.  The only non-prime warframe that I like is Excalibur, and I'll never be able to get the prime version of that.  The only prime warframes I like are locked away for an indeterminate amount of time.

 

This has seriously killed my enthusiasm for playing this game.  I was looking forward to putting in some time to earn things in this game, but now I'm finding out there are things that I cannot earn - no matter how much time and effort I put into getting them - for what appear to be arbitrary reasons.

 

I really hope I am missing something and my current interpretation is inaccurate, because these last few days of playing have been pretty fun.  With so many goals being blocked by invisible walls, however, I don't think it will remain as fun for very long.

[bad4youLT]

frost mag and ember along they prime weapons got vaulted do to void drop table delusion , as more items get added its harder and harder to get certen ones , so DE decided to vault old stuff , but dont worry people say they come back when star chart gets reworked ( aka star chart 3.0 )

Edited January 18, 2016 by bad4youLT

[Kai_Shiba]

Excalibur Prime will never return. It was only available back when Warframe was starting out back in it's early days. Called the Founders pack. Which was about $50 to $250. It was already stated by the Developers that it will never return ever again.

 

Prime vaults however have a chance. There are times when it opens and you will be able to get the parts. A few months ago, Frost prime returned for a few weeks but he has been vaulted again.

 

If you want.

 

Rhino prime, Ankryos prime and Boltor prime are on the next list to be Vaulted when the new prime access comes out, though it will be announced when it will, so stay tuned.

 

Don't worry, Vaulted things have a chance to come back.

Edited January 18, 2016 by KJRenz

[Rydian]

Excalibur Prime was never vaulted, because he never dropped in-game to begin with, ever.

He existed before the void, before the current prime system, everything.

 

As for other things that are vaulted, they will return.  Frost Prime was vaulted, returned to the drop tables for a month, then went away and will return again later.  There's still literally over 300 things you can get in-game.  And hell, the vaulted things?  You can trade for the parts and still build it.  Vaulted just means the parts don't currently drop right now.

 

If you don't like time-limited things, you're going to have a bad time playing online games in general because every game that lasts more than a year has them in one form or another (event/discontinued items).

[MillbrookWest]

The devs have stated intent on putting all primes (minus Excal) into the solar system (would say void, but the void is going somewhere itself). New game systems need to be created to facilitate that. The updated Star Chart that was supposed to lead into better item requisition but got pushed back to U19.

 

Everyone can only guess, until we get the new star chart, as to how the devs might go about moving the void and the primes they contain.

[(PSN)IIIDevoidIII]

The original reasoning behind the Vaulting was to challenge the current Void drop table dilution. I'm not really sure how effective that has been, but I'm still holding out hope that these frames are reintroduced with Star Chart 3.0, and the 'blowing up of the Void'.

 

With how Frost Prime was temporarily released as a paid package that could be farmed and then re-Vaulted doesn't look good for that outcome, however.

[OriVerda]

You've been playing for three days and haven't given any Warframe a chance aside from Excalibur and want what essentially amounts to an Excalibur with a different helmet.

I recommend you give other Warframes a try, if Excalibur remains your favourite try getting the Avalon helmet and a different colour scheme. You can recreate Excalibur Prime to some degree and with eyes pinched.

[(PSN)xXToastiButterXx]

It has been stated multiple times by [DE] that they are working on a way for past, current, and future primes to be accessible to all players.

But let's be honest, a permanent fix to prime dilution will take a while to work out, and isn't really something that can be solved in less than a year, though apparently with the dispersion of the void (I say dispersion because they said it will spread to other nodes instead of going away) there will be more than enough places to get primes.

Although, with the current trend, they will need to come up with a permanent way to resolve it due to adding new frames every few weeks now as opposed to every few months like back then.

[matto]

The original reasoning behind the Vaulting was to challenge the current Void drop table dilution.

 

The real reason was to make more money with a new system of prime access. The dilution of drop tables is a smoke screen, or an excuse. (one currently available prime item can drop in 3-4 places, Derelict is empty, A rotations, also forma drops).

 

but I'm still holding out hope that these frames are reintroduced with Star Chart 3.0, and the 'blowing up of the Void'.

 

I hope so.

Edited January 18, 2016 by matto

[NinthAria]

It wasn't arbitrary. They started vaulting things because they had an increasing number of drops restricted to a (relatively) finite number of mission reward tables, and it started to get out of hand. (Some would argue it still is out of hand.)

 

Hopefully the new star chart overhaul will help.

[(PSN)IIIDevoidIII]

The real reason was to make more money with a new system of prime access. The dilution of drop tables is a smoke screen, or an excuse. (one currently available prime item can drop in 3-4 places, Derelict is empty, A rotations, also forma drops).

What I said wasn't incorrect. This was the reasoning the devs had given for Vaulting items. 

What the real intention was/ is, if not that, could be what you're saying, or it could be a child decision made after the fact. We don't really know those specifics.

[Ironlixivium]

Actually you can earn everything in warframe. This is one of the few F2P games where the paid currency can actually be obtained without paying, and instead by trading things to other players, who are willing to give you paid currency for in game stuff. The system isn't perfect, but it works, and successfully makes warframe a true F2P game. Of course, if you want to support the devs, buying a little won't ruin your game play experience.

[Ithloniel]

The original reasoning behind the Vaulting was to challenge the current Void drop table dilution. I'm not really sure how effective that has been, but I'm still holding out hope that these frames are reintroduced with Star Chart 3.0, and the 'blowing up of the Void'.

 

With how Frost Prime was temporarily released as a paid package that could be farmed and then re-Vaulted doesn't look good for that outcome, however.

 

I am actually hoping the Prime Vault continues to be a thing.  It maintains a level of significance in getting certain Prime stuff, and staying in the game long-term, without punishing new players, due to rotation.  It also keeps the trade market alive, because values don't continuously drop over time.  While not everyone likes Prime Vaults, they encourage long-term play, introduce long-term goals, incentivize big-spenders to actually spend on plat, and provides non-spenders with a balanced economy in which they can earn premium currency.

 

It basically hits all points.  If the Prime Vault was ever completely opened and the program ended, I worry that it would be bad for the game's long-term health.  Sure, it was initially enacted to avoid loot table dilution, but I think it has turned into a regulatory feature of the game that incentivizes newer players to become long-term players.

Edited January 18, 2016 by Ithloniel

[Corvyr]

If you don't like time-limited things, you're going to have a bad time playing online games in general because every game that lasts more than a year has them in one form or another (event/discontinued items).

 

I've been playing online games for over 20 years and I've never run into an issue where stat items (primes are strict upgrades, right?) were event-based and locked away for periods of time.  The only corollaries I can think of would be, what, cosmetic holiday items in World of Warcraft?

 

You've been playing for three days and haven't given any Warframe a chance aside from Excalibur and want what essentially amounts to an Excalibur with a different helmet.

I recommend you give other Warframes a try, if Excalibur remains your favourite try getting the Avalon helmet and a different colour scheme. You can recreate Excalibur Prime to some degree and with eyes pinched.

 

I don't like the way any of them look.  Most of the frames have ridiculous looking waists and thighs.  The rest just don't appeal to me for other reasons.

 

Aesthetics matter for me in non-competitive games.  I'll play the dumbest looking Magic: the Gathering card if it helps me win, but I need to like the way I look when there's no competition involved.

 

If I want to continue playing, I guess I'll just need to hope that either my progression perfectly lines up with the time frame of the vault opening, or that this overhaul is ready before then.  It definitely puts a damper on things, though.

 

Thanks for the replies.

[matto]

Indeed, it's not incorrect at all.

 

I don't blame them for this either. I just wished this reward table dilution thing was not used as an excuse.

 

Sorry if I get a little ticklish when it comes to that specific matter IIIDevoidIII. It's been around for such a long time (like ever).

 

Anyway, I just think the Prime vault is fine for accessories. But when it comes to vaulting frames and weapons...

[Rydian]

I've been playing online games for over 20 years and I've never run into an issue where stat items (primes are strict upgrades, right?) were event-based and locked away for periods of time.  The only corollaries I can think of would be, what, cosmetic holiday items in World of Warcraft?

Name any big MMO and I'll bet you plat I could just waltz up to the wiki, find the category for discontinued items, and pull up a list of links of things that are no longer obtainable.  Hell, even things that aren't considered big MMOs have unobtainable things if they've been around long enough (Mabinogi) and there's things that aren't even considered proper MMOs by people that thrive off of time-limited junk (Gaia Online for one).

 

Many will argue that primed frames in general are just cosmetic things.  Warframe isn't a game with a huge range of tiers of frames, Excalibur Prime literally has 25 more armor than the normal model, which is 3% damage reduction to health, and that's the only base stat change.

[Corvyr]

Name any big MMO and I'll bet you plat I could just waltz up to the wiki, find the category for discontinued items, and pull up a list of links of things that are no longer obtainable.  Hell, even things that aren't considered big MMOs have unobtainable things if they've been around long enough (Mabinogi) and there's things that aren't even considered proper MMOs by people that thrive off of time-limited junk (Gaia Online for one).

 

Many will argue that primed frames in general are just cosmetic things.  Warframe isn't a game with a huge range of tiers of frames, Excalibur Prime literally has 25 more armor than the normal model, which is 3% damage reduction to health, and that's the only base stat change.

 

I highly doubt you could find an item in any major modern MMO that new players are unable to obtain that gives even a small statistical advantage to the current endgame.  Even if you could, I would say that is equally as poor of a choice.

 

Don't prime warframes also come with extra/different polarities?  Does that not affect the potential loadouts you can get?

 

I don't want to come in here and make fun of your game.  I really want to like this game.  I want it to be my game, too.  Please don't get defensive.

[Jazzy_Big_D]

I am actually hoping the Prime Vault continues to be a thing. It maintains a level of significance in getting certain Prime stuff, and staying in the game long-term, without punishing new players, due to rotation. It also keeps the trade market alive, because values don't continuously drop over time. While not everyone likes Prime Vaults, they encourage long-term play, introduce long-term goals, incentivize big-spenders to actually spend on plat, and provides non-spenders with a balanced economy in which they can earn premium currency.

It basically hits all points. If the Prime Vault was ever completely opened and the program ended, I worry that it would be bad for the game's long-term health. Sure, it was initially enacted to avoid loot table dilution, but I think it has turned into a regulatory feature of the game that incentivizes newer players to become long-term players.

[MillbrookWest]

Wait, after three days you're already talking about endgame :O

 

I would just focus on getting the mods required for higher levels over Primes - That means getting a butt tonne of credits, and fusion cores.

 

Once you have the mods, the statistical benefits of Primes will be more apparent. With low level mods, the buff is kinda inconsequential truth be told.

 

However, i will agree that i don't like the idea of a prime vault. Another round of that and i'll be re-evaluating how i pay for things [in warframe] in future.

 

P.S - If you don't like the Prime vault, you should probably not look up the old Arcane helmet stuff for things that are unobtainable...if you wonder why some primes run with old helmets, you'll know the reason xD

[BornWithTeeth]

 

Don't prime warframes also come with extra/different polarities?  Does that not affect the potential loadouts you can get?

 

I don't want to come in here and make fun of your game.  I really want to like this game.  I want it to be my game, too.  Please don't get defensive.

 

 

That is not actually a permanent or major difference, due to Forma. Don't like the mod polarities of your 'frame? Change them, change them with trivial ease. Hit Void missions and you will get Forma blueprints.

 

Prime Warframes are slightly better....on the order of having quite small perks to their defensive stats. Aside from that, the only thing about them is that they look more bling.

 

 

Also, really? Excalibur is the only Warframe in the game which you like the look of? And, presumably, Ember Prime, Mag Prime, and Frost Prime?

[DeadlyPeanutt]

 

As a new player of about three days, it just appears like this is an unnecessary inconvenience to me.  The only non-prime warframe that I like is Excalibur, and I'll never be able to get the prime version of that.  The only prime warframes I like are locked away for an indeterminate amount of time.

 

 

 

Prime WFs are basically the same frame as non prime WFs.  I run Rhino and Rhino prime and the only differences are appearance and a few additional polarity slots that could be achieved by forma.  The stats differences are not significant in daily play.  Prime Rhino is a little faster, other than that, he's very close to the same frame as regular rhino. 

 

Prime frames tend to be status symbols, which are fine, but don't affect how well the frame plays (imho).

[(PSN)IIIDevoidIII]

I highly doubt you could find an item in any major modern MMO that new players are unable to obtain that gives even a small statistical advantage to the current endgame.  Even if you could, I would say that is equally as poor of a choice.

 

Don't prime warframes also come with extra/different polarities?  Does that not affect the potential loadouts you can get?

 

I don't want to come in here and make fun of your game.  I really want to like this game.  I want it to be my game, too.  Please don't get defensive.

You can add polarities to mod slots of any Warframe. 

Think of those extra polarities as free Forma, that you may want to change later anyway. 

The real advantage of Prime Warframes is the small buffs they get, the 250 energy restoration from Death Orbs in the Void, and Baro Ki'Teer praising you. (What? It feels good)

Prime weaponry is of a different caliber and has a significantly larger overall buff.

 

Though, yes, it isn't untrue that many major MMO's have unobtainable items that are quite powerful. Most MMO's I have played in my lifetime have something like this.

[Hypernaut1]

Where was it ever officially stated that the vault was to helo with diluted prime drop tables?

I thought this was just a forum assumption

[(PSN)IIIDevoidIII]

Where was it ever officially stated that the vault was to helo with diluted prime drop tables?

I thought this was just a forum assumption

The devstreams and I believe the forum post announcing it stated this to be the reason.

[Corvyr]

Wait, after three days you're already talking about endgame :O

 

Well, I need to know what I'm working towards to make the work feel like it's worth something.

 

Also, really? Excalibur is the only Warframe in the game which you like the look of? And, presumably, Ember Prime, Mag Prime, and Frost Prime?

 

Unfortunately, yes.  The only other one that's close is Loki.  The rest just look too...alien in their bodies.  I understand that's the point, but they just don't look good to me.

 

Frost Prime was the one that caught my eye the most.  Then again, the pictures on the wiki do frequently look better than the actual results that I see in game.  Regular Frost looks...stretched, and fat, but I would like it if that were not the case.  The prime version looks leaner to me, but maybe that's not the case in game.