Some Excal Feedback

[XantDee]

I've been playing Warframe for some time and had a lot of fun with frames like Mesa, Mirage, Valkyr and Volt. Forma'd some of them several times even. That was... until I opened Excalibur for myself.

 

HE IS AMAZING.
Like the best warframe I ever tried! Amazing and fun skillset, awesome DPS and CC.
I'm having a lot more fun with him, than I did with, say, Valkyr or Nyx, or pretty much any other frame.

I really hope that some other frames will get a rework to be on the same page of Awesomeness as Excal.

BRB, gonna give him some forma love.

[Yual]

volt and mag going to be rework at the same level. but valkyrs is going to be nerf :b

Edited January 23, 2016 by yual

[Xaero]

[RealPandemonium]

Trivializing all content is just great!

[Magneu]

I have gazed into hell itself.

[DSpite]

Damage projection using EB still seems a bit over the top.

 

I mean, the ability has a lot of factors that make up it's function, that being how fast you can fire it, damage output, energy drain, etc etc, and since every single one is basically really good, they kind of add up to make it a tad too good.

 

When you have him in a room with Saryn's, Nova's and Mag's, I guess you can kind of keep up now :)

[[DE]Momaw]

Anything that can do 150K DPS should have serious drawbacks.  Exalted Swoosh doesn't really have any. Excalibur has mutated from "the swordsman" to what would be, in other games, some kind of developer cheat.

 

But what can ya do.

[Epsik-kun]

But what can ya do.

Well you sure can whine about it.

[[DE]Momaw]

Well you sure can whine about it.

 

I can also propose alternatives!

 

Keep Exalted Blade as a toggle, keep the auto parry, keep the huge base damage affected by power strength, and keep the mini-blind on spin attack. However, no swooshes. Instead you get three other mechanics:

1.) All finisher attack animations play at 200% speed while Exalted Blade is active

2.) If you hit a single enemy with your attacks 3 times in a row without killing them, the next attack is automatically a finisher as long as they are vulnerable to finishers

3.) Excalibur gains damage resistance and health regeneration based on his current combo multiplier. Initially he might regenerate 2hp/second and have 10% damage reduction. Increasing to 4hp/second with 25% damage reduction at 1.5x melee bonus, and 8hp/second with 50% damage reduction at 2x melee bonus

 

This would be much more thematic to a "swordsman" frame. No terrain-penetrating AOE space blaster, just really excellent melee combat performance.

Edited January 24, 2016 by Momaw

[Epsik-kun]

-snip-

That's more interesting. I've made a "remove waves and add stuff" post myself. The problem is, to make rework into an actual rework, and not a blatant nerf would require quite a lot of changes and efforts, and most of people would rather have DE to direct these efforts into the new content development sphere.

[Darkmoone1]

Trivializing all content is just great!

 

Anything that can do 150K DPS should have serious drawbacks.  Exalted Swoosh doesn't really have any. Excalibur has mutated from "the swordsman" to what would be, in other games, some kind of developer cheat.

 

But what can ya do.

At the very least he is vulnerable with very mediocre armor. A knockdown here and a enemy slipping by there will cause him to go down. Overuse of his abilities will cost him his energy and Exhalted blade. Too close, he risks getting torn to shreds. Too far, you can get tunnel vision and while trying to aim for the enemies across the room its easy to miss what's going on around you and, hence the slipping by. This means, even with his impressive damage and versitile abilities, there is still little room for errors.

 

Unlike some other frame I know with full on invulnerability. Trust me, Excal has his own fair share of problems that will cause him to be, at least for me, one of the examples of well design and balance in this game because despite his power he is still vulnerable.

[[DE]Momaw]

most of people would rather have DE to direct these efforts into the new content development sphere.

 

The problem with building on an uneven foundation...unless hypothetical new frames are equally powerful as (and can perhaps tactically replace) old frames, a lot of people won't care about them.

[RealPandemonium]

At the very least he is vulnerable with very mediocre armor. A knockdown here and a enemy slipping by there will cause him to go down. Overuse of his abilities will cost him his energy and Exhalted blade. Too close, he risks getting torn to shreds. Too far, you can get tunnel vision and while trying to aim for the enemies across the room its easy to miss what's going on around you and, hence the slipping by. This means, even with his impressive damage and versitile abilities, there is still little room for errors.

 

Unlike some other frame I know with full on invulnerability. Trust me, Excal has his own fair share of problems that will cause him to be, at least for me, one of the examples of well design and balance in this game because despite his power he is still vulnerable.

Armor is only relevant for frames that have a ton of it (Valkyr, Chroma) or frames that have a moderate amount and run a Life Strike melee build (or have some other healing source.)  Saying a frame has low armor doesn't really matter since almost every frame lacks an armor value sufficient to substantially raise ttk against level 50+ enemies.  Excal can just blind/javelin enemies anyway, so his armor value (which is well above average anyway) isn't as important in the first place.  "Being able to die, period" does not justify Excal's tremendous power level, and a good player will not often "get tunnel vision" and die because of easily avoidable mistakes.  

 

The more recent generations of players who don't know anything but overpowered stuff (and the race on Draco to obtain it) really have a problem envisioning a game that isn't terribly unbalanced and makes sense design-wise, which worries me.  

[(PSN)Keiji_Haku]

Any frame, properly modded (with leveled up mods at least rank 8s or higher), should destroy level 100+ enemies. However the idea of balance is damage powers fall off and become useless against 100+ enemies leaving CC to reign. Why should damage powers be left in the dust?

Any frame, properly modded (with leveled up mods at least rank 8s or higher), should destroy level 100+ enemies. However the idea of balance is damage powers fall off and become useless against 100+ enemies leaving CC to reign. Why should damage powers be left in the dust?

Any frame, properly modded (with leveled up mods at least rank 8s or higher), should destroy level 100+ enemies. However the idea of balance is damage powers fall off and become useless against 100+ enemies leaving CC to reign. Why should damage powers be left in the dust?

Any frame, properly modded (with leveled up mods at least rank 8s or higher), should destroy level 100+ enemies. However the idea of balance is damage powers fall off and become useless against 100+ enemies leaving CC to reign. Why should damage powers be left in the dust?

Any frame, properly modded (with leveled up mods at least rank 8s or higher), should destroy level 100+ enemies. However the idea of balance is damage powers fall off and become useless against 100+ enemies leaving CC to reign. Why should damage powers be left in the dust?

Any frame, properly modded (with leveled up mods at least rank 8s or higher), should destroy level 100+ enemies. However the idea of balance is damage powers fall off and become useless against 100+ enemies leaving CC to reign. Why should damage powers be left in the dust?

Any frame, properly modded (with leveled up mods at least rank 8s or higher), should destroy level 100+ enemies. However the idea of balance is damage powers fall off and become useless against 100+ enemies leaving CC to reign. Why should damage powers be left in the dust?

[ShortCat]

Any frame, properly modded (with leveled up mods at least rank 8s or higher), should destroy level 100+ enemies. However the idea of balance is damage powers fall off and become useless against 100+ enemies leaving CC to reign. Why should damage powers be left in the dust?

Since when are lvl 100+ enemies a benchmark for scaling?

Yet, don't say: "Since we have sortie missions". Those missions should be a real challenge. As it is now, you can roll with your face over the keyboard and win.

[Darkmoone1]

Armor is only relevant for frames that have a ton of it (Valkyr, Chroma) or frames that have a moderate amount and run a Life Strike melee build (or have some other healing source.)  Saying a frame has low armor doesn't really matter since almost every frame lacks an armor value sufficient to substantially raise ttk against level 50+ enemies.  Excal can just blind/javelin enemies anyway, so his armor value (which is well above average anyway) isn't as important in the first place.  "Being able to die, period" does not justify Excal's tremendous power level, and a good player will not often "get tunnel vision" and die because of easily avoidable mistakes.  

 

The more recent generations of players who don't know anything but overpowered stuff (and the race on Draco to obtain it) really have a problem envisioning a game that isn't terribly unbalanced and makes sense design-wise, which worries me.  

I'm not sure how you can get worried when the whole map is getting reworked eventually. Not like that'll become a huge part of the game once everything reshapes again. In that regard I think you're overreacting honestly.

 

Also, I have to disagree on some points of your post. Radial Javelin(At least for me) stopped being a relevant ability once the rework happened. Unless you beefed out in power strength(And forgo the other stats that make Exhalted blade and Radial Javelin workable) it just doesn't give you the same results as a Radial Blind would. And while Radial Blind is good, over use leads to power shortage. Of course you can mod for that with corrupted mods, but then your duration goes down(Which you really do need for Excals abilities), and so on as those mods go.

 

Leading to armor. It's not the greatest thing in the world for Excal, but it is good enough that'll save you in case you take a hit or two(Which will happen I don't care how good of a player anyone is.). I guess for you this isn't a big weakness, but for me it most certainly is.

 

So I'll agree to disagree. 

[Epsik-kun]

Also, I have to disagree on some points of your post. Radial Javelin(At least for me) stopped being a relevant ability once the rework happened. Unless you beefed out in power strength(And forgo the other stats that make Exhalted blade and Radial Javelin workable) it just doesn't give you the same results as a Radial Blind would. And while Radial Blind is good, over use leads to power shortage. Of course you can mod for that with corrupted mods, but then your duration goes down(Which you really do need for Excals abilities), and so on as those mods go.

 

Leading to armor. It's not the greatest thing in the world for Excal, but it is good enough that'll save you in case you take a hit or two(Which will happen I don't care how good of a player anyone is.). I guess for you this isn't a big weakness, but for me it most certainly is.

Radial Javelin as of now has two uses. First being the main DPS skill of Excal - that requires you to build solely for it. It not only works, it's effectively the best AoE DPS skill in the game, were you to get a squad with a good synergy. Second is rudimental use on EBlade build. Not that helpful, but still usually oneshots various shield drones even on 50+ lvls, so it isn't completely useless.

 

Also, Excalibur has high armor. Not Chroma or Valkyr high, but still pretty high. Building for armor on Excal is definitely worth it, as end-game Excalibur can push his EHP over 3k via armor only.

[Chipputer]

Well you sure can whine about it.

Why should they propose anything else when people have been talking about EB being in need of a looking at for ages, now?

[(PSN)Keiji_Haku]

Since when are lvl 100+ enemies a benchmark for scaling?

Yet, don't say: "Since we have sortie missions". Those missions should be a real challenge. As it is now, you can roll with your face over the keyboard and win.

since when is anything below it a benchmark? There is no official.

[Epsik-kun]

Why should they propose anything else when people have been talking about EB being in need of a looking at for ages, now?

People aren't "talking". They are "whining". The difference being usual lack of knowledge and proper understanding of situation, yet still being not pleased with it. 

While Excal is indeed a very strong universal frame, he's by no means "OP" if you put him into actually high-level content his skills are designed around. Yes, Excalibur can go throught vast majority of starchat while mindlessly spamming EBlade. And, for no apparent reason, this is the exact Excalibur people complain about, without realising, that 90% of frames can go throught starchart in a similar way.

Even on NM survivals you won't be able to only stick to EBlade. Same goes for Sorties, prolonged Void Survivals and T4. Excal possesses convenient way to kill stuff relatively quick, but aside from that he's just "okay". His CC is limited with LoS and has a five second cooldown, while there are several frames who have recastable CC with no LoS restrictions. His AoE nuke (which is the only meta ability he has) can only be good with a separate build centered on it while requiring a proper squad to be used effectively. His defence abilities are above average, but not on pair with other frames designed for the same level of content.

He is a solid frame, but nowhere OP. He might be one of strongest, if you count overall versality, but the only role he can be actually best at is AoE DPS, which doesn't even use the ability all people are complaining about.

Edited January 25, 2016 by Epsik-kun

[RealPandemonium]

DE really screwed everyone over when they legitimized level 60+ content with raids, sorties, and 3x damage T4.  Now we have generations of players who think that all frames/weapons should be able to trivialize this content with mass CCs, effective invulnerability, and massively overtuned damage.  

Edited January 25, 2016 by RealPandemonium

[Epsik-kun]

It is fate of every Diablo-like game.

[Volinus7]

How to kill lvl100 sentient in a few seconds?

Excal is the only one existed answer.

[ClinkzEastwood]

It is fate of every Diablo-like game.

Except Diablo 2, Path or Exile, Torch light 2 or any other Diablo-like games.

Terrible fate indeed.

[Epsik-kun]

Except Diablo 2, Path or Exile, Torch light 2 or any other Diablo-like games.

Terrible fate indeed.

Are you trying to imply you won't steamroll Diablo 2, PoE and Torchlight if you have access to end-game gear? Because this is what you are trying to imply right now.