Raito1337 Posted February 11, 2016 Share Posted February 11, 2016 Me, and a group of friends were farming T3 Survivals, we were going for 40-60mins. The keyhost had a dc after 38 minutes of farming. We immediatly get kicked out. No chance for host to reconnect, all rewards gone....are you serious, DE? This is a huuuge problem and should immediatly be remedied. It's encouraged to go for as long as possible, but at the same time it's risky due to internet hiccups. This is just terrible game design. As a sidenote: The afk timers in Survival and Defense are also a terrible idea. In these types of mission you tend to not run around for much, but rather camp in a safe spot. Most of the time people only move to loot every 2-5 minutes, and that's it. Otherwise it's only using abilities and shooting. This apparently marks you as afk and you're forced to jump and roll around like a squirrel on cocaine. I don't see why this should be implemented in these types of missions at all. If a team got an afk on their team it's very easy for them to just kill them off, abandon the mission or any other of the million ways you can prevent it on your own without a dumb AFK timer in place. Please overthink these two "features". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phatose Posted February 11, 2016 Share Posted February 11, 2016 A way to reconnect the squad after a keyholder/host DC would be nice. Probably technically difficult. *Any* movement prevents being marked AFK. Pressing W for a millionth of a second prevents it. It's not exactly hard to tap W. Unless you're actually AFK. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)MakoPriest Posted February 11, 2016 Share Posted February 11, 2016 I agree with the host dc issues . But if you are not moving in a 40 minute survival you need to uh git gud as region would say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ashrah Posted February 11, 2016 Share Posted February 11, 2016 would be nice if host lse connection to guy with best connection take place of host and u just invate.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OverlordMcGeek Posted February 11, 2016 Share Posted February 11, 2016 (edited) The AFK timers are a great addition to the game that makes sure leechers are punished for the most part. You don't have to jump around or even roll, simply move forward 2-3 meters. You should anyway since it is unproductive to stand there taking damage in high level mobs and makes it quicker to aim to your sides. I do completely agree on the hosting issues. They should have gotten dedicated servers by now. Edited February 11, 2016 by [DE]Danielle Removed antagonizing remarks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leavith Posted February 11, 2016 Share Posted February 11, 2016 At least you weren't held captive how horrible would it be if the host said alright all this rewards you will loose if you don't do as I say now get down and give me 20 push ups or I will DC and you will loose everything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WolfTitan Posted February 11, 2016 Share Posted February 11, 2016 Camping in a safe spot in long survival missions is a good strategy. When you have everyone splitting up, they become more vulnerable to high level enemies. Sticking together in a large map ensures that the mobs converge to a single point for efficient killing and life support drops. I did not know that you had to move in order to not be labeled as afk. I thought that firing weapons was sufficient. In that case, I agree that the afk system needs a rework. You should not be afk if you are firing your weapon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raito1337 Posted February 11, 2016 Author Share Posted February 11, 2016 Some people seem to have never done an actually organized Survival if you honestly think that everyone is moving around a lot (or needs to). Ever farmed sewers in a Tower Survival? Besides, moving around does not fix the AFK-Timer thing at all. I was picking up loot every 2 minutes and moved around in a restricted space (our Frost's Globe) and still got marked as AFK and got no reward. It's hurting more than it does good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phatose Posted February 11, 2016 Share Posted February 11, 2016 I have. As it turns out, tapping w doesn't move you very far. It's not like you're being asked to run to the next room - just not remain *completely * immobile. You just have to move more then a statue, even a millimeter will do. Be aware that DE is actively against what you're doing - Homer's drinking bird is Steve's term for it - and killing that behavior is regarded as a positive. DE - and much of the community - really want sitting mostly immobile in a farm spot - to be totally impossible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Educated_Beast Posted February 11, 2016 Share Posted February 11, 2016 I find the afk rules annoying as well but for a different reason. Occasionally I need to go afk. Something in real life can occur. If someone tells me they got a phone call, need to take put trash, etc. No big deal, I'll carry for a little while. Only when someone secretly goes afk does it bother me. If you let team know you'll be back in 5 minutes, then play another 30 waves, what's the big deal? I never had a problem with this and neither do any of clan mates I play with. The guys who really wanna go afk can just program mouse or keyboard for random movements. All this system does is punish legit players. I've literally never had a problem with an afk player. Yes I've seen them, but easy enough to leave and mark ignore if they were not kind enough to let team know they have to leave for awhile. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WolfTitan Posted February 11, 2016 Share Posted February 11, 2016 (edited) I have. As it turns out, tapping w doesn't move you very far. It's not like you're being asked to run to the next room - just not remain *completely * immobile. You just have to move more then a statue, even a millimeter will do. Be aware that DE is actively against what you're doing - Homer's drinking bird is Steve's term for it - and killing that behavior is regarded as a positive. DE - and much of the community - really want sitting mostly immobile in a farm spot - to be totally impossible. I dont see why it is not seen as a positive thing. Defense is designed to be played in that manner too: globe over the pod and players stick together defending the pod.The point is to develop strategies that work and promote coop. So in survival, put a globe in a safe spot, stick everyone in it, and kill and support according to the frames. That seems to me as the ultimate coop playstyle, as opposed to everyone splitting up and killing their own thing. So what's wrong with remaining immobile so everyone can support each other? Edited February 11, 2016 by WolfTitan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phatose Posted February 11, 2016 Share Posted February 11, 2016 (edited) I dont see why it is not seen as a positive thing. Defense is designed to be played in that manner too: globe over the pod and players stick together defending the pod. The point is to develop strategies that work and promote coop. So in survival, put a globe in a safe spot, stick everyone in it, and kill and support according to the frames. What's wrong with that? Mobility and movement are intended to be key aspects of Warframe. Allowing great success for not moving is a major design failure. Allowing for greater success the you get while actually moving is a terrible failure - especially when it allows for play that a drinking bird toy could do. It's equivalent to a death-racing game where the easiest way to win was not to race at all, and instead fire missiles at everybody else until there's no one left. The "race" aspect becomes moot. Edited February 11, 2016 by Phatose Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chipputer Posted February 11, 2016 Share Posted February 11, 2016 I dont see why it is not seen as a positive thing. Defense is designed to be played in that manner too: globe over the pod and players stick together defending the pod.. There's a reason defense missions are designed with multiple entrances and angles for the enemy to shoot from. It is not designed in a way that you can stand completely still and win unless you are doing extremely early defense missions or using a high powered nuke frame. Survival is designed in such a way that you are forced to move to collect life support. It is designed with the idea that you will be moving around in mind. If you camp in certain areas the enemies will stop spawning, even, just to force you to move out. If you decide to employ a strategy that clashes with the AFK timer then the one at fault is you, not the game's design. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WolfTitan Posted February 11, 2016 Share Posted February 11, 2016 Mobility and movement are intended to be key aspects of Warframe. Allowing great success for not moving is a major design failure. Allowing for greater success the you get while actually moving is a terrible failure - especially when it allows for play that a drinking bird toy could do. It's equivalent to a death-racing game where the easiest way to win was not to race at all, and instead fire missiles at everybody else until there's no one left. The "race" aspect becomes moot. Gotcha. I guess it's up to DE then to find a solution. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LadyChaomii Posted February 11, 2016 Share Posted February 11, 2016 Just my two cents; 1. About the comment on the quotation marks around the word features. Quotations around a word or sentence that is not dialogue is usually used to denote a sarcastic/ironic use of the word. In this case the "features" are just causing problems, which is why they are not really features. I know I'm playing Captain Obvious here, but if somebody doesn't know, it's only polite to be informative. 2. I don't get why you would ever spend more than 20 minutes on a survival map tbh, since you don't get any better rewards for just leaving and coming back. The risk of losing everything is too high, and not just from DCing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raito1337 Posted February 11, 2016 Author Share Posted February 11, 2016 Limited supply of keys. @LadyChaomii. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)DrakoVongola96 Posted February 12, 2016 Share Posted February 12, 2016 I dont see why it is not seen as a positive thing. Defense is designed to be played in that manner too: globe over the pod and players stick together defending the pod. The point is to develop strategies that work and promote coop. So in survival, put a globe in a safe spot, stick everyone in it, and kill and support according to the frames. That seems to me as the ultimate coop playstyle, as opposed to everyone splitting up and killing their own thing. So what's wrong with remaining immobile so everyone can support each other? Nobody said you had to all split up to the furthest reaches of the system, just that the idea of standing in one spot and doing nothing is frowned upon. Moving around super fast and cutting things up like ninjas is kind of the whole point of Waframe after all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LadyChaomii Posted February 12, 2016 Share Posted February 12, 2016 Wait, so you can get marked as an AFKer if you're looking around and shooting but not moving? Because that's what I'm getting from this convo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phatose Posted February 12, 2016 Share Posted February 12, 2016 Wait, so you can get marked as an AFKer if you're looking around and shooting but not moving? Because that's what I'm getting from this convo. Yes. You absolutely have to walk, or jump, or run. If you do not move, you're considered afk. Shooting or powers or moving the mouse does not prevent it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LadyChaomii Posted February 12, 2016 Share Posted February 12, 2016 (edited) Yes. You absolutely have to walk, or jump, or run. If you do not move, you're considered afk. Shooting or powers or moving the mouse does not prevent it. May I ask why? What is the logic behind this? I need to know. And long can you go without having to run across the room before it triggers? Edited February 12, 2016 by LadyChaomii Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phatose Posted February 12, 2016 Share Posted February 12, 2016 May I ask why? What is the logic behind this? I need to know. You'd have to ask DE for sure. Likely though it was to prevent people from literally putting a drinking bird toy hitting "4" and then walking away. There were plenty of ultimate abilities then where you could literally do that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LadyChaomii Posted February 12, 2016 Share Posted February 12, 2016 (edited) Well that's fair enough. In World of Tanks we have people who do the exact same thing, basically. It is so bad that winning in WoT is based less on your skill and more on who has the most AFKers. I'm aware I'm getting off topic here, but it is absolutely VITAL that I know these details and the Wiki says nothing about AFKing. How long before you are considered AFK? Can I scratch my ! without it triggering? How far do you need to go to walk before being considered AFK? Will it trigger if you are playing by yourself? (I know that if I'm playing by myself but I forget to set my squad status to solo, I will not be able to pause the game) Edited February 12, 2016 by LadyChaomii Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeardyKyle Posted February 12, 2016 Share Posted February 12, 2016 I wasn't aware of the afk timers being added. How do they work? For instance there's been times where 20mins into a t3s I had to tell the squad brb and hide myself in a safe spot while I go do something, take a dump, help bring in groceries, answer the phone etc and im gone for a few mins...would that penalize/kick me? If so then no to afk timers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)buffalo100 Posted February 12, 2016 Share Posted February 12, 2016 Getting a good balance would be difficult,no way of precisely monotoring it at the moment.I'm sure it will get better but AFK'ers are becoming more common i've noticed on PS4.Joining a public game just to chill and spawning in on the host who is still at the original spawn in point is a sure sign of AFK,this also tells me of a high certainty of him leaving forcing host migration.Very rarely join public games now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeeAmatsu Posted February 12, 2016 Share Posted February 12, 2016 As a sidenote: The afk timers in Survival and Defense are also a terrible idea. In these types of mission you tend to not run around for much, but rather camp in a safe spot. Most of the time people only move to loot every 2-5 minutes, and that's it. Otherwise it's only using abilities and shooting. This apparently marks you as afk and you're forced to jump and roll around like a squirrel on cocaine. I don't see why this should be implemented in these types of missions at all. If a team got an afk on their team it's very easy for them to just kill them off, abandon the mission or any other of the million ways you can prevent it on your own without a dumb AFK timer in place. Apparently a majority of Tennos love to grind the sh_t out of any mission but somehow they object the method above. Go figure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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