[Focus V1.1] It Is Not A Bug Anymore, It Is A Nerf.

[cx-dave]

I'm letting you know it's possible to cap Focus every day within a realistic time frame. Many have already figured it out. And once a large majority of players has it under control, DE will of course make it harder again.

[Hemmo67]

33 minutes ago, cx-dave said:

I'm letting you know it's possible to cap Focus every day within a realistic time frame. Many have already figured it out. And once a large majority of players has it under control, DE will of course make it harder again.

stealth survivals ftw ^-^

[DeMonkey]

6 hours ago, Keltik0ne said:

My perspective is, I now get focus more slowly, which I'm ok with, but a lot of people seem not to be. The few posts by DE staff have been rebutted by mathematics too, which is a bad thing since it makes the individual staff members seem less informed than they usually are.

Because they're DE they're beyond rebuttal? That doesn't float my boat. As the one who made the main math threads I take something like this very seriously. If DE feck up then it is up to us to point it out, what difference does it make if it makes them look bad? They're only human, human's make mistakes and we move on.

 

Also, more slowly? Are you serious? Slower. 

[TheLexiConArtist]

7 minutes ago, DeMonkey said:

Because they're DE they're beyond rebuttal? That doesn't float my boat. As the one who made the main math threads I take something like this very seriously. If DE feck up then it is up to us to point it out, what difference does it make if it makes them look bad? They're only human, human's make mistakes and we move on.

 

Also, more slowly? Are you serious? Slower. 

Point prima: Absolutely correct. That's the entire point of the feedback forums. White-knighting isn't needed where the whole point is to expose dissatisfaction and mistakes.

Point secunda: There is nothing wrong with the phrase "getting Focus more slowly". Not that 'slower' would have been incorrect either, it's one of those mid-length words that work both ways. Now, if it had been "more slower" I would've been right with you. If you're going to grammatically criticise, don't be overzealous.

[DeMonkey]

Just now, EDYinnit said:

Point prima: Absolutely correct. That's the entire point of the feedback forums. White-knighting isn't needed where the whole point is to expose dissatisfaction and mistakes.

Point secunda: There is nothing wrong with the phrase "getting Focus more slowly". Not that 'slower' would have been incorrect either, it's one of those mid-length words that work both ways. Now, if it had been "more slower" I would've been right with you. If you're going to grammatically criticise, don't be overzealous.

Kinda reads like you were saying that we shouldn't prove DE don't know their own game because it makes them look bad. If that's not the case then how exactly should I read it?

If you say so, completely unnecessary but whatever.

[Phatose]

Er, I read that as a criticism of DE staff seeming uninformed.  Of DE staff being uninformed.

[TheLexiConArtist]

Just now, DeMonkey said:

Kinda reads like you were saying that we shouldn't prove DE don't know their own game because it makes them look bad. If that's not the case then how exactly should I read it?

If you say so, completely unnecessary but whatever.

Nah, I was saying you were right - DE aren't beyond reproach, the Feedback forums exist for us to unearth things they've done (or in some cases, haven't done) that are giving us players less than the best experience as a result.

_{Or did you think I was the user you were quoting yourself, replying back?}

[DeMonkey]

8 minutes ago, EDYinnit said:

_{Or did you think I was the user you were quoting yourself, replying back?}

Shhhhhh, nothing to see here. I totally didn't get confused. 

Damn these confusing forums, still not used to the layout

Edited February 25, 2016 by DeMonkey

[MumblesMcphatty]

4 hours ago, cx-dave said:

I'm letting you know it's possible to cap Focus every day within a realistic time frame. Many have already figured it out. And once a large majority of players has it under control, DE will of course make it harder again.

Not really relevant - the idea that everyone must play one optimum way in order to gain a reasonable amount of focus is farcical. 

Its supposed to be a system that accrues while anyone plays in any way - not primarily for Loki/Ash cheeseballs and 4-spammers to enjoy while the rest of us wonder wtf the point is. 

[Big_Gunz]

I am fine with the Focus nerf if they just do 2 things.

1) That the booster doesn't appear 3+ rooms back.

2) The booster total is gained and shared with the team and not individual.

- Reason is that when individual, everyone starts fighting over the kills instead of work as a team.

- Total booster points is then divided evenly and your focus lens determines the percentage gain after your divided share.

 

Just these 2 things would be enough.

I'd rather complain of the leecher over fighting over kills with friends.

Edited February 25, 2016 by ThunderTitz

[Torhque]

Don't grind it though. 

Just put (Greater) Lenses on all the equipment you use the most/you think would be most effective, and just play the game. 

You'll gain Focus over time for just doing your thing

[Keltik0ne]

4 hours ago, Phatose said:

Er, I read that as a criticism of DE staff seeming uninformed.  Of DE staff being uninformed.

That's what it was.  I also know it was DeMonkey's math skills that gave clarity to the situation but couldn't remember the exact spelling of his name (the forums were not helping me).

I'm ok with my English getting corrected when it needs it too, though I'm pretty sure I used correct syntax there. Either way, I agree with DeMonkey's position on the focus system as it is.

[DeMonkey]

11 hours ago, Keltik0ne said:

The few posts by DE staff have been rebutted by mathematics too, which is a bad thing since it makes the individual staff members seem less informed than they usually are.

 

10 minutes ago, Keltik0ne said:

That's what it was.  I also know it was DeMonkey's math skills that gave clarity to the situation but couldn't remember the exact spelling of his name (the forums were not helping me).

I'm ok with my English getting corrected when it needs it too, though I'm pretty sure I used correct syntax there. Either way, I agree with DeMonkey's position on the focus system as it is.

Ah, your previous comment was kinda ambiguous, I couldn't tell if you were saying we were bad for rebutting them, or it was bad that they were uninformed. Sorry I snapped.

Also, I wasn't correcting, it is grammatically correct afaik, it's just my pet hate. I can't stand reading more slowly when slower does the same job for just over half the characters.

[Keltik0ne]

2 minutes ago, DeMonkey said:

 

Ah, your previous comment was kinda ambiguous, I couldn't tell if you were saying we were bad for rebutting them, or it was bad that they were uninformed. Sorry I snapped.

Also, I wasn't correcting, it is grammatically correct afaik, it's just my pet hate. I can't stand reading more slowly when slower does the same job for just over half the characters.

No worries, I'm Irish so my language skills can confuse those with access to higher brain function.

[cx-dave]

5 hours ago, MumblesMcphatty said:

Not really relevant - the idea that everyone must play one optimum way in order to gain a reasonable amount of focus is farcical. 

Its supposed to be a system that accrues while anyone plays in any way - not primarily for Loki/Ash cheeseballs and 4-spammers to enjoy while the rest of us wonder wtf the point is. 

Not really relevant as opposed to your post not being relevant at all? I stated the exact opposite. As a matter of fact, there are many alternatives to Draco that don't force you into a narrow selection of frames for gaining Focus effectively. It's up to you as a player which way you wish to gain it. No point in blaming the system when the fault lies with yourself.

...no you can't play in any random way and acquire specific items in your wish list. However, if that were the case I chose to be Ivara sucking up Focus from thin air with my Carrier, while being permanently invisible.

[Senoinya]

What I find amusing about the whole focus nerf is that it was probably done to try to make people be less interested in Draco. Just like every nerf like this is.

But that's stupid, because nerfs like this just increase the grind, and the reason Draco is popular in the first place is because of the grind. Sure, you make it go slower than it did before in Draco, but you make it slower for the entire rest of the game too, so since Draco is faster than anywhere else regardless, reduced focus gains across the board actually only makes Draco more desirable, because with worsened grind across the board, even those that wouldn't have sought out Draco to grind Focus will now give in and go there anyway because it's too insufferably slow anywhere else now.

In addition, since just to get the focus gains how they were before the nerf you now have to pick up this item that drops wherever it damn well pleases, Draco is actually made even more of a go-to place for Focus because there's only one room, so this item is never far away, unlike in survival where you have to go way out of your way just to get it, and then you mess up the spawns by going to a different room due to how the clunky survival spawns work.

The way to take the attention off Draco is not to nerf everything in the game until gains in Draco are the same as gains in the rest of the game used to be, because then the rest of the game will be unbearable for gaining EXP and Draco will just suck in even more players because it'll be the ONLY way to realistically rank anything. The only way to take the attention off Draco would be to nerf Draco itself so it doesn't give so much EXP so quickly.

But if they nerf Draco, the forums will explode in riots. The community simply won't stand for that. If they EVER nerfed Draco, there would be such a huge backlash that it'd probably cut the active playerbase in half, and that's not even an exaggeration.

So what do you do when nerfing things only puts a bigger spotlight on the thing you want people to leave alone, and nerfing that spot would create backlash? Consider why people are going to that spot in the first place - the grind in the rest of the game for going through Focus and Forma alike is unbearable as it is. Fix the grind, and people will HAPPILY go to Draco less. They don't go to Draco because they enjoy it. If they could get a reasonable amount of affinity/focus in the other missions, then they wouldn't need to be in Draco all the time if they didn't want to be.

But if DE doesn't want to fix the grind, doesn't want Draco to be the spotlight, but doesn't want backlash... Then the only thing for DE to do is just deal with it. Draco exists. People go there for EXP. I doubt it's damaging DE, so why mess with it? Why make nerfs like these that affect the entire game just because people prefer to farm it quickly?

[ShortCat]

11 hours ago, Torhque said:

Don't grind it though. 

Just put (Greater) Lenses on all the equipment you use the most/you think would be most effective, and just play the game. 

You'll gain Focus over time for just doing your thing

So you say I need to play with one set of equipment 24/7 to gain meaningfull amount of focus? This is even more restricting and boring than cutting down gain numbers.

[Torhque]

Doesn't have to be just one set, Warframe, or weapon.

I guess people will end up doing that though. That's something I can agree with you on. It's a bad system that limits variety. 

It's the main reason why I have never applied an arcane effect to any of my gear

Edited February 27, 2016 by Torhque
Original wording was bad

[BloodfireSouls]

I kinda don't like the way how society has made everyone into these kinds of people who want instant gratification for every single thing they do.  So focus is even more of a grind than it was before.  THAT'S THE POINT.  Its supposed to be.  If you could complete the focus trees in a week there'd be no point in even having it.  Its supposed to be a way to give people a sense of progression, or at least that's what I gather from it, which warframe doesn't really have cuz MR means nothing and you can easily rank weapons from 1 - 30 in 3 minutes if you know how to.  DE wants you to play their game.  They want you to spend that 6+ hours playing their game.  Because what company makes a game and says: "no, I don't want you to play my game.  Finish the game in 5 minutes and leave.  I don't want you here."  Warframe is a game that requires a lot, and I mean a lot, of time invested to make progress.  Its a grindy game.  If you don't like the grind, then don't play it.  Simple as that.

Edited February 28, 2016 by BloodfireSouls

[hammerheathen]

9 hours ago, BloodfireSouls said:

I kinda don't like the way how society has made everyone into these kinds of people who want instant gratification for every single thing they do.  So focus is even more of a grind than it was before.  THAT'S THE POINT.  Its supposed to be.  If you could complete the focus trees in a week there'd be no point in even having it.  Its supposed to be a way to give people a sense of progression, or at least that's what I gather from it, which warframe doesn't really have cuz MR means nothing and you can easily rank weapons from 1 - 30 in 3 minutes if you know how to.  DE wants you to play their game.  They want you to spend that 6+ hours playing their game.  Because what company makes a game and says: "no, I don't want you to play my game.  Finish the game in 5 minutes and leave.  I don't want you here."  Warframe is a game that requires a lot, and I mean a lot, of time invested to make progress.  Its a grindy game.  If you don't like the grind, then don't play it.  Simple as that.

 I'd like to point out there is a difference between "Instant Gratification" and Meaningful Gain. I generally agree with you, instant gratification is a bad habit. But there's something that the flavor of your comments don't seem to be grasping.

A lot of the people who are upset about this aren't the instant gratification type. We play for long periods of time doing many different things, not expecting all of it to happen at once. We plan in months, not days or weeks unlike a lot of people in this game. That's exactly the type of people that this hurt the most. It's the jab in the kidneys who people who felt they were playing in the "Spirit" of the focus system. They don't get this option anymore, they've essentially been gated out of this system. I'm not as effected, because I happen to enjoy running survivals, but there's a lot of people who don't. It's relevant that I, and others like me who'd rather take the long road and get a meaningful experience out of this are also the type of people who will invest heavily into games we believe in. For example, I've easily put in over $500 and brought in people who put in just as much. I've played this game for years. I had planned for 3-6 months per tree, and was excited for the changes that might occur. I didn't grind for the content. That play-style has just been pushed out to a year or more per tree, and for the current levels of rewards it's just really not worth it. In order to stay healthy a game needs long-term veteran players invested in it's game just as much as it needs fresh new blood.

What this change has done, is push people who were against instant gratification, into picking up the tools everyone else was using for it, because all our options for not grinding our asses off in one boring mission for extended periods of time have been taken away. That's not gonna make people want to play the game more. It's going to make them want to leave. Everything is fine when grind is an option, or something you can do if you want to. It's not fine when it becomes the only option. It feels punitive. A player won't play a game to feel punished, They sure as hell won't pay to be punished either.

Edited February 28, 2016 by hammerheathen
A few typos, and an incorrect statement.

[Caelward]

On 2/25/2016 at 2:32 PM, Torhque said:

Don't grind it though. 

Just put (Greater) Lenses on all the equipment you use the most/you think would be most effective, and just play the game. 

You'll gain Focus over time for just doing your thing

 

4 hours ago, Torhque said:

Doesn't have to be just one set, Warframe, or weapon.

I guess people will end up doing that though. That's something I can agree with you on. It's a bad system that limits variety. 

It's the main reason why I have never applied an arcane effect to any of my gear

Both those suggestions come close to being arrogant and ignorant. At the very least, it's pretty short-sighted.

Saying we should have sets of gear all outfitted with greater lenses? How about for the various focus trees? Should we have greater lenses for those?

Either the platinum cost is getting ridiculous, or we are going to have to run a stupid number of sorties and hope that the lenses we want actually drop.

How many players actually have the time and resources for that crap. This just leads us back to why Draco is popular. Even with fewer and lesser lenses, Draco still allows those with less money/time the ability to feel like they are making progress.

[DeMonkey]

5 hours ago, BloodfireSouls said:

I kinda don't like the way how society has made everyone into these kinds of people who want instant gratification for every single thing they do.  So focus is even more of a grind than it was before.  THAT'S THE POINT.  Its supposed to be.  If you could complete the focus trees in a week there'd be no point in even having it.  Its supposed to be a way to give people a sense of progression, or at least that's what I gather from it, which warframe doesn't really have cuz MR means nothing and you can easily rank weapons from 1 - 30 in 3 minutes if you know how to.  DE wants you to play their game.  They want you to spend that 6+ hours playing their game.  Because what company makes a game and says: "no, I don't want you to play my game.  Finish the game in 5 minutes and leave.  I don't want you here."  Warframe is a game that requires a lot, and I mean a lot, of time invested to make progress.  Its a grindy game.  If you don't like the grind, then don't play it.  Simple as that.

Someone else who can't read.

We all agree that we shouldn't clear it in 5 minutes, do you know what's already in place to stop that happening? The sodding daily cap. Why on earth would DE raise the sodding cap if they wanted us to earn less? 

Jesus that comment has made me angry, if you're going to make a strawman at least read the previous comments so that you don't make a bad strawman, because that one is just garbage.

''Don't like the grind, don't play it''. Who are you to say that? Because we disagree with a change made by DE we should all up and leave the game instead of providing feedback?

There are some people who really shouldn't post without thinking, I'm afraid you're one of them.

[FitzSimmons]

1 hour ago, DeMonkey said:

Someone else who can't read..

correction, can't read and can't understand are different

[Medereyes]

DE has to follow directions from their chinese masters.

[BornWithTeeth]

10 hours ago, BloodfireSouls said:

I kinda don't like the way how society has made everyone into these kinds of people who want instant gratification for every single thing they do.  So focus is even more of a grind than it was before.  THAT'S THE POINT.  Its supposed to be.  If you could complete the focus trees in a week there'd be no point in even having it.  Its supposed to be a way to give people a sense of progression, or at least that's what I gather from it, which warframe doesn't really have cuz MR means nothing and you can easily rank weapons from 1 - 30 in 3 minutes if you know how to.  DE wants you to play their game.  They want you to spend that 6+ hours playing their game.  Because what company makes a game and says: "no, I don't want you to play my game.  Finish the game in 5 minutes and leave.  I don't want you here."  Warframe is a game that requires a lot, and I mean a lot, of time invested to make progress.  Its a grindy game.  If you don't like the grind, then don't play it.  Simple as that.

A big part of the issue with this change is not that it nerfs all Focus gain. A big part of the issue with this change is that it nerfs all Focus gain except static Interception/Draco farming.

 

 

This change punishes people who play casually and rewards people who cheese-farm on Draco. 

 

Please, re-read your post with that last sentence in mind. This change punishes casual play and rewards intensive grinding.