Now that there's (MORE!) timetraveling, can we travel back in time and kill "Lotus"? Specters of Rails Updated

[Mak_Gohae]

On 3/3/2016 at 10:08 AM, Attley said:

Another issue with this idea is in the notion that if we killed Lotus the Tenno could still defeat the Sentients. From what we can tell about Natah's mission, she was active and manipulating the Tenno behind the scenes during the Old War. Therefore, it's not a huge leap of faith to assume that the Sentients allowed the Orokin to 'win' the Old War so that the Orokin would bring the Tenno back into their society and put them in the perfect place for a massacre.

 

Possible but having spies inside the enemy camp while a war is happening is not a rare concept.

 

On 3/3/2016 at 11:22 AM, 45neo said:

If we build a time machine and go back in time to kill the lotus then with the lotus dead the future would change ect. ,ect. and in the future we may either A. not be here to travel back in time or B. have no reason to go back in time. So if we wind up not going back in time doesn't that mean we wind up not killing the lotus?

 

Besides the way I see it time is Solid anyone who goes back in time can never change history.... only cause it. In other words a person who wants to go back in time to make Leonardo a cobbler rather than a painter would wind up being the cause of Leonardo becoming a painter. 

Well, DE doesnt have to follow that method of time travel.

All you folks know this, right?

Kinda weird, again, that everyone is throwing out this specific method of time traveling that doesnt allow changes to the timeline.

On 3/3/2016 at 4:11 PM, motorfirebox said:

Where is it said that Lotus is the one who messed with Ordis's memory? I don't recall that.

Hasnt that been hinted at?

I mean, who else? The tenno also dont remember anything. What are the chances that the weapons she had control over BOTH lost their memories?

 

On 3/4/2016 at 7:44 PM, (PS4)Lowk721 said:

Lotus so far has only really been revealed to have hidden the moon.

Just like they teased the orbiter being bigger through Ordis, I think they may have dropped a hint that Ordis might have been the one who did that. Which would make some sense considering his devotion being in the same range as Lotus. An extreme measures to hid information that might hurt them kind of fits that level of devotion.

   

"lotus" devotion is to make us her children.

Ordis likely is not that level of crazy. Ordis was probably forced to forget. Like i said above, funny that both the tenno and order forgot about the OW.

[Littlerift]

2 minutes ago, Mak_Gohae said:

Possible but having spies inside the enemy camp while a war is happening is not a rare concept.

 

Indeed not, but if we kill Lotus then two possibilities emerge: A) The Sentients realise that their plan has failed and simply send another fleet or two to wipe out the Orokin, who had been brought to their knees by the first wave, and B) The Sentients simply send another Sentient with a Lotus-like mission and this time said Sentient doesn't choose to spare the Tenno, which would leave both the Orokin and the Tenno dead.

[motorfirebox]

18 hours ago, Mak_Gohae said:

Hasnt that been hinted at?

I mean, who else? The tenno also dont remember anything. What are the chances that the weapons she had control over BOTH lost their memories?

The only hints about Ordis's memory that I recall are hints that Ordis did it to himself. And as far as I recall, there's been no indication that Lotus had any control over the Tenno's memory loss.

[45neo]

1 hour ago, Mak_Gohae said:

Possible but having spies inside the enemy camp while a war is happening is not a rare concept.

 

Well, DE doesnt have to follow that method of time travel.

All you folks know this, right?

Kinda weird, again, that everyone is throwing out this specific method of time traveling that doesnt allow changes to the timeline.

Hasnt that been hinted at?

I mean, who else? The tenno also dont remember anything. What are the chances that the weapons she had control over BOTH lost their memories?

 

"lotus" devotion is to make us her children.

Ordis likely is not that level of crazy. Ordis was probably forced to forget. Like i said above, funny that both the tenno and order forgot about the OW.

yes but think of it... All other methods of time travelling are 100% irational.

If time travelling occurred it has already happened.

[45neo]

Just now, 45neo said:

yes but think of it... All other methods of time travelling are 100% irational.

If time travelling occurred it has already happened.

Besides if DE did implement another form of time travel and we do go back in time and kill the lotus then we will have some of the player base where the lotus is dead and some who the lotus is alive. That would screw up the game completely. Also what reason do we have to kill the lotus... let alone change anything in the past?

[Kaisty]

2 hours ago, 45neo said:

Besides if DE did implement another form of time travel and we do go back in time and kill the lotus then we will have some of the player base where the lotus is dead and some who the lotus is alive. That would screw up the game completely. Also what reason do we have to kill the lotus... let alone change anything in the past?

Depends on if you are looking for the answer within the game or outside of the game.

Inside the game = Lies, deceit, she is a Sentient, etc. Pick a reason and go with it.

 

Outside of the game = For some she won't shut the Hades up! We got a toggle for Operator, a slider for Ordis, why not a toggle / slider for Lotus? A human can only listen to her recycled dribble before the thoughts of drowning her Sentient body in a pool of hot acid (among other delightfully painful methods) come to mind.

We know the Grineer are coming, we are on their map. We know there are no reinforcements. Yes, Fire is hot and bad to touch. We can see there is ice on the map (especially when we go to a frakin ice planet), and so on and so forth. It is so bad and annoying that DE made fun of it in a quest, which only got a small giggle out of me before the dread of realizing that I will keep hearing it over and over again from the same NPC.

If Stalker knocked her out and removed her voice box, I would find his operator and give that child a freaking medal, a cookie, and a potato or two! All his past transgressions with me will be cleared and every time we would fight, my only response is "Oh you" in a canned laughter inducing voice. Second dream actually made me wished that Stalker would have snapped my Operator's neck like a twig so they could have died and never had to hear another, "This area has taken some hits. Stay away from the fire!" or "Grineer are on the way", etc.

At this point, I'm starting to think the only reason why Hunhow and the rest of the Sentients haven't shown up en mass is not because DE hasn't put them fully in the game yet, but due to the fact that the code actually became alive and is trying to drive everyone insane with her canned NPC responses!

[Littlerift]

12 minutes ago, Kaisty said:

Depends on if you are looking for the answer within the game or outside of the game.

Inside the game = Lies, deceit, she is a Sentient, etc. Pick a reason and go with it.

 

Outside of the game = For some she won't shut the Hades up! We got a toggle for Operator, a slider for Ordis, why not a toggle / slider for Lotus? A human can only listen to her recycled dribble before the thoughts of drowning her Sentient body in a pool of hot acid (among other delightfully painful methods) come to mind.

We know the Grineer are coming, we are on their map. We know there are no reinforcements. Yes, Fire is hot and bad to touch. We can see there is ice on the map (especially when we go to a frakin ice planet), and so on and so forth. It is so bad and annoying that DE made fun of it in a quest, which only got a small giggle out of me before the dread of realizing that I will keep hearing it over and over again from the same NPC.

If Stalker knocked her out and removed her voice box, I would find his operator and give that child a freaking medal, a cookie, and a potato or two! All his past transgressions with me will be cleared and every time we would fight, my only response is "Oh you" in a canned laughter inducing voice. Second dream actually made me wished that Stalker would have snapped my Operator's neck like a twig so they could have died and never had to hear another, "This area has taken some hits. Stay away from the fire!" or "Grineer are on the way", etc.

At this point, I'm starting to think the only reason why Hunhow and the rest of the Sentients haven't shown up en mass is not because DE hasn't put them fully in the game yet, but due to the fact that the code actually became alive and is trying to drive everyone insane with her canned NPC responses!

 

So much angst. 

 

Also, I'd love for you to come up with a single malicious lie that the Lotus has actually told the Tenno. Sure, she was rather bashful about the whole 'Natah' thing, but she doesn't deny it at all. She kept the nature of the Operator a secret from the Tenno, but she only did so because she had seen what that knowledge had done to the Stalker. Other than those two things I can't think of anything she's even been slightly deceptive about.

[Kaisty]

1 minute ago, Attley said:

 

So much angst. 

 

Also, I'd love for you to come up with a single malicious lie that the Lotus has actually told the Tenno. Sure, she was rather bashful about the whole 'Natah' thing, but she doesn't deny it at all. She kept the nature of the Operator a secret from the Tenno, but she only did so because she had seen what that knowledge had done to the Stalker. Other than those two things I can't think of anything she's even been slightly deceptive about.

You glance over the fact that she is a Sentient and that she kept the truth from us so easily. As for denying it, frankly she did it after Teshin called her by her real name.

Second, the whole "Couldn't tell you the truth because you would end up like Stalker" BS is just that. If you can't trust somebody with the truth, then why should you deserve trust in the first place?

Finally, it seems very convenient that there is little to no information as to how the Old war went down, how we actually killed off all the Orokin Elite, and how we were just put in tupperware after the whole situation went down. Even if it felt like it was a disgrace or may seem little to some, others prefer to know their history in the hopes of never repeating it. Natah isn't telling us more about our past because she wants the Tenno to remain in a daze when it comes to such things, and had Stalker learned to calm down and talk before trying to stab, he might have had more people seeing his side by now.

[45neo]

6 minutes ago, Attley said:

 

So much angst. 

 

Also, I'd love for you to come up with a single malicious lie that the Lotus has actually told the Tenno. Sure, she was rather bashful about the whole 'Natah' thing, but she doesn't deny it at all. She kept the nature of the Operator a secret from the Tenno, but she only did so because she had seen what that knowledge had done to the Stalker. Other than those two things I can't think of anything she's even been slightly deceptive about.

Yeah plus she like... SAVED OUR LIVES MORE THAN ONCE. so I really don't see a reason to kill the lotus. The only and I mean only 2 things that I would timetravel to fix are A. making it so margulis lives and B. killing the sentients while they are playing dead.

[Littlerift]

2 minutes ago, Kaisty said:

You glance over the fact that she is a Sentient and that she kept the truth from us so easily. As for denying it, frankly she did it after Teshin called her by her real name.

Second, the whole "Couldn't tell you the truth because you would end up like Stalker" BS is just that. If you can't trust somebody with the truth, then why should you deserve trust in the first place?

Finally, it seems very convenient that there is little to no information as to how the Old war went down, how we actually killed off all the Orokin Elite, and how we were just put in tupperware after the whole situation went down. Even if it felt like it was a disgrace or may seem little to some, others prefer to know their history in the hopes of never repeating it. Natah isn't telling us more about our past because she wants the Tenno to remain in a daze when it comes to such things, and had Stalker learned to calm down and talk before trying to stab, he might have had more people seeing his side by now.

 

I indeed look past the fact that Lotus is a Sentient because racism and speciesism are the domain of an Orokin, not a Tenno. Her deeds more than redeem her nature.

And we know how the Old War went down: the Sentients returned from Tau Ceti and war was sparked (we don't know who struck the first blow, it could have been an immediate attack from the Sentients or it could be the case that the Orokin were typically prideful and were disgusted that the Sentients had formed themselves in the Orokin's image), the Sentients were winning at the start, but the Orokin adapted to integrate Zero-tech soldiers and, their ultimate weapon, the newly Warframe-Converged Tenno. This was enough to win the war, although the Sentients had managed to use Natah to infiltrate Tenno society and either through pure persuasion or manipulation made the Tenno slaughter the Orokin. With their leaders dead the Orokin became unable to resist the Grineer, who had rebelled due to their treatment by the Orokin. The Orokin empire collapsed, and Natah was poised to complete her mission and destroy the Tenno. However, she chose not to, and instead placed the Tenno into Cryosleep, likely expecting a future Sentient attack. She changed her name to Lotus, and then spent hundreds or even thousands of years watching over and guarding the Tenno while they slept through the rise of the Grineer and Corpus empires.

 

None of which seems to incriminate Lotus to any great degree (except for the whole slaughtering the Orokin thing, but then they were evil anyway and would have killed the Tenno shortly after the victory parade had danced its way out of the boulevard.

[Kaisty]

37 minutes ago, Attley said:

 

I indeed look past the fact that Lotus is a Sentient because racism and speciesism are the domain of an Orokin, not a Tenno. Her deeds more than redeem her nature.

And we know how the Old War went down: the Sentients returned from Tau Ceti and war was sparked (we don't know who struck the first blow, it could have been an immediate attack from the Sentients or it could be the case that the Orokin were typically prideful and were disgusted that the Sentients had formed themselves in the Orokin's image), the Sentients were winning at the start, but the Orokin adapted to integrate Zero-tech soldiers and, their ultimate weapon, the newly Warframe-Converged Tenno. This was enough to win the war, although the Sentients had managed to use Natah to infiltrate Tenno society and either through pure persuasion or manipulation made the Tenno slaughter the Orokin. With their leaders dead the Orokin became unable to resist the Grineer, who had rebelled due to their treatment by the Orokin. The Orokin empire collapsed, and Natah was poised to complete her mission and destroy the Tenno. However, she chose not to, and instead placed the Tenno into Cryosleep, likely expecting a future Sentient attack. She changed her name to Lotus, and then spent hundreds or even thousands of years watching over and guarding the Tenno while they slept through the rise of the Grineer and Corpus empires.

 

None of which seems to incriminate Lotus to any great degree (except for the whole slaughtering the Orokin thing, but then they were evil anyway and would have killed the Tenno shortly after the victory parade had danced its way out of the boulevard.

Well the Tenno could have fooled me by the lines they say about each of the Factions you face on their maps. Yes, the Grineer have issues due to cloning, but when a Tenno keeps commenting on how ugly they are or how the Corpus are greedy, they show more and more of their original masters each time they speak.

In fact, by labeling all the Orokin evil, that can be considered racism and speciesism as well. Margulis was an Orokin (or at least of their decent) if she held some important place in their empire and she didn't seem "evil". In fact, who is to say that 100% of the Empire shared the same ideas? Plus, we don't know if they would have truly killed the Tenno off, put us in storage, or found ways to keep us in line so they wouldn't have had the whole "Get killed by our weapons" incident.

[Kaotyke]

45 minutes ago, Kaisty said:

Well the Tenno could have fooled me by the lines they say about each of the Factions you face on their maps. Yes, the Grineer have issues due to cloning, but when a Tenno keeps commenting on how ugly they are or how the Corpus are greedy, they show more and more of their original masters each time they speak.

Corpus: "Profit numbs the feeling", "I will keep your credits warm when you are gone", "In the name of Profit, I commit tee, to the Void", Nef Anyo scamming people. All Corpus hold "Profit" in high reguard.

Grineer: What was the first thing that passed through your head when you looked at the Grineer's face? Mine was "Man, they sure are an ugly bunch."

45 minutes ago, Kaisty said:

In fact, by labeling all the Orokin evil, that can be considered racism and speciesism as well. Margulis was an Orokin (or at least of their decent) if she held some important place in their empire and she didn't seem "evil". In fact, who is to say that 100% of the Empire shared the same ideas? Plus, we don't know if they would have truly killed the Tenno off, put us in storage, or found ways to keep us in line so they wouldn't have had the whole "Get killed by our weapons" incident.

Strange, subistitute "Orokin" with "Sentient" and "Margulis" with "Lotus" and we have your own argument on why we shouldnt trust her for her species.

And from all the Lore we had with the Orokin involved:
 

Arid Eviscerator Synthesis

Spoiler

 

The face of the survivors, all lined up for evacuation, were etched with confusion when the lift doors closed in front of them.

We descended to the hum of the lift flying through the tower. I turned and smiled at Avantus, "I was beginning to believe you were going to bring them all with us."

"Nonsense, Bilsa, that's simply not feasible." Avantus replied. "You know we need to find safety and re-establish the Congress of Executors, we have no time for a rescue mission. Besides, those people know their place and they just did their duty. I will see to it they are honored when our Orokin Empire returns to glory."

 

Leaving survivors that needed help behind so they can save their own hides.

Corrupted Ancient

Spoiler

We were twins bred for purpose, cloned and then modified so that we could both interface with the Lora Device. The Orokin had a visage imbued with variation, beauty and symmetry, but we had the Lora nodes protruding from our right temples. Their skin was silken, ours was weaved with ribbons of metallic facia that snaked around our bodies and into the Lora Device embedded in our palms. We made them uncomfortable and they made that known, that is, until they were sick or hurt and then we were saviours. That never bothered me though, I loved my sister and we had each other. I wasn't about to leave her in the middle of this nightmare.

Modify people for a porpuse and treat them with disgust afterwards, be "thankful" when they are useful and most likely go back to disgust.

Crewmen
 

Spoiler

 

They opened the chamber door just in time for me too see it happen; the Archimedian erupting into a flash, jade-like and blinding. I knew her. She was the greatest scholar of genetics who ever lived. Except now she was nothing but mist and gore. *

...

Ballas turned his head as the judgement disc went suddenly dark. "An appeal comes at a price. Should you fail, you and your corpus will pay dearly."

"They already suffer in this growing wasteland. They have already paid. Will you also sacrifice the royal futures by ignoring my solution?" **

...

"The empire is already at risk," cried the shrill voice of another Executor, "Or perhaps you haven't noticed from your cozy position on Mars."*** To this there was a round of applause and the judgement disc remained unchanged.

 

*"The greatest scholar of genetics", I dont know about you, but as far as we know she was in the same project as the narrator and they just killed a brilliant mind because she her project was deemed too risky.

**At that time "Corpus" meant "Family", they just threatned his family should he not convince them. And it also says that the "lower classes" were suffering in a "gowing wasteland" while the "Noblity/Royalty" lived in comfort.

***The empire at risk, and they lived in luxury while the "Lower classes" suffered and were willing to throw a solution away because it went against their "principles". (And we STILL dont know what those "principles" are! I wouldnt be surprised if one of them was "Kill anything that threatens our wealth")

The Orokin remindes me a lot of the Noblity of Feudal Eras that had all money and luxury at the expense of the "peasants". Margulis was an exception there are exceptions to every rule, but even then they did not hesitate to kill her for trying to help the Tenno. "Shame on you! You Orokin, so beautiful on the outside but you are rotten, through and throught!"

And with Sands of Inaros we discovered they also kidnapped children.

Please, do not try to defend the Orokin. I will even light some fire by saying this: Should we have really trusted Margulis? She was an Orokin, why was she so invested in helping us? She made the basis for Transference, maybe she was trying to take over the Orokin by using us and said those words to sanctify herself to us and hope that we would avenge her in a "If I cant have it, they wont as well" plot.

 

Edited March 10, 2016 by Kao-Snake

[MadHatHacker]

Can I go back in time and prevent the edgelords in this thread from posting?

[Littlerift]

5 minutes ago, MadHatHacker said:

Can I go back in time and prevent the edgelords in this thread from posting?

 

We can do that at the same time that we go back in time and give the Stalker a cuddle and some hot chocolate.

[Mak_Gohae]

On 3/4/2016 at 5:15 PM, Littlerift said:

 

Yeah that's not going to work, the Tenno aren't an army, they couldn't have won without the Orokin's zero-tech soldiers doing most of the work.

Not to mention the possibility that the Sentients allowed us to win solely to set up the coup led by Natah.

The story is that the war was won because of the tenno and warframes.

The story isnt that the zero-tech soldier won the war. If that was the story the game would be called Zero-Tech Warrior.

On 3/4/2016 at 6:36 PM, (PS4)Lowk721 said:

We know the location of one of his larger bodies. But as it is shown in the quest one dead body does not stop him from being around. 

 

They reveal that all the parts know about all the other parts. Even hunhow knows about "lotus" info because she was part of him.

That means we can use that connection against them.

 

Quote

Nice double standard vilifying Lotus while trying to paint Grineer and Corpus as the innocent party. They raid defenseless colonies. The Grineer actually enslaves the populations.  Not only that, The Grineer were the ones who started this all. They tried to take out the Tenno while they all slept so no one would get in their way. Lotus went "Ya dun goofed" and started waking the Tenno. 

They don't know warframes are wardrones, they thought they were killing Tenno. They don't give a crap about wardrones, Corpus has that stuff already. What they want is either the Tenno out of the way or have the power they possess.

All countries, kingdom, empires became what they are by conquering. Let's stop with this goofy idea that the Grineer are bad because they do what is normally done.

No, they didnt try to take out the tenno. They tried to learn about warframe-tech.

They found these things and in the void and tried to figure them out. They didnt. "Lotus" is the one that turned it into a slaughter.

Why do we need to kill The Sergeant for selling Warframes? Why dont the "lotus" just buys them off him?

 

Quote

 

There is proper reasoning for wanting to keep that kind of power out of their hands. That's like saying "Oh Hitler is just making unstoppable super-soldier, we're evil for trying to stop him." The closest thing to good any of them try to do is Tyl and he is specifically using it to create more powerful death machines to make the Grineer even more unstoppable.

The event of the entire game could have been avoided if the Grineer or the Corpus weren't power obsessed jerk.

 

It's the internet... so why not mention Hitler.....

 

On 3/5/2016 at 7:06 AM, Xardis said:

I dont know if enyone did mention this earlier but we arent traveling in time. In fact spy vaults are traveling around us. It would be imposible to travle in time as a frame. This would break the transferance link. Your mind is still in your liset when your frame is traveling into past when you cant reach it coz you didnt exist back then. Lotus can reach you in new/old  timeline in spy vaults. She cant speak to you back throught time.

Yeah, the idea is that the time pockets are the first steps.

And if you travel into a different time now then there is no reason to believe you cant at all.

[Xardis]

1 minute ago, Mak_Gohae said:

Yeah, the idea is that the time pockets are the first steps.

And if you travel into a different time now then there is no reason to believe you cant at all.

No, you dont get my point, its not you traveling through time, its environment being partly stuck in the past. The point its you dont travel, for reasons I listed. Transferance link would be cut of and you would loose a frame. Its doe to nature of Tenno controling a frame. There is nothing in game suggesting that anything can travel though time backwards.

[Littlerift]

31 minutes ago, Mak_Gohae said:

The story is that the war was won because of the tenno and warframes.

The story isnt that the zero-tech soldier won the war. If that was the story the game would be called Zero-Tech Warrior.

 

You can have a war-winning weapon and still lose the war if you can't hold the line. The Zero-tech Soldiers were the rank and file of the Orokin army, whereas the Tenno were the special forces. Both are necessary, but if you can only have one type of unit in your army you want it to be the basic infantry.

 

Quote

 

All countries, kingdom, empires became what they are by conquering. Let's stop with this goofy idea that the Grineer are bad because they do what is normally done.

No, they didnt try to take out the tenno. They tried to learn about warframe-tech.

They found these things and in the void and tried to figure them out. They didnt. "Lotus" is the one that turned it into a slaughter.

 

 

The fact that something is done often doesn't make it right. Yes, all human empires have carved themselves out of the carcass of an old order; that doesn't make such conquest just.

And no, the Grineer were actively going around the place killing Warframes. In Vor's Prize the player is spared simply on a whim, as Vor has shifted his plan from destruction of the Tenno to an attempt to control and weaponise them - hence the Ascaris Device, Lotus rescues you from this fate by surging your Warframe, partially negating the Ascaris Device and giving the Operator control once again. 

 

And again, no, the Grineer didn't find any of the Warframes in the Void, they would simply stumble on them throughout the galaxy while they went about terraforming and desecrating anything Orokin they could get their hands on.

 

Edit: Although ultimately none of this conjecture matters, as Xardis states, their is no time travel in Warframe (yet) - what we see in the Orokin Spy Vaults is a series of bubble universes that don't seem to expand very far with these bubble universes existing as a snapshot of the Reservoir pre-ejection for the Void. The areas aren't connected by causality as they would be if it were true time travel, but rather by the open rifts in the Void that somehow connect them conceptually: setting off an alarm in the present somehow triggers the alarms in the past, which wouldn't be the case if the rifts truly allowed for time-travel.

Edited March 10, 2016 by Littlerift

[Xardis]

2 minutes ago, Littlerift said:

And again, no, the Grineer didn't find any of the Warframes in the Void, they would simply stumble on them throughout the galaxy while they went about terraforming and desecrating anything Orokin they could get their hands on.

Not galaxy, Origin system, only Sentient were outside of the system. Also, Grineer found our frames in the Void, Vor used Janus key to access the portal of the Void pocket our frame was hidden in.

[Mak_Gohae]

On 3/5/2016 at 5:43 PM, (PS4)Lowk721 said:

You do remember that was the series where the protagonist erased people close to him out of existence then almost himself, right?

Because he was messing with his parents, aka, his creation. 

I am not saying to go back and mess with the creation of the tenno. Just go back to mess with the Lotus.

 

Quote

As noted in the back to the future reference. Changing one thing can have much larger consequences and Lotus is not a small thing in the timeline. Answers to old questions wouldn't matter because things didn't go how they did before. All knowledge of what happened is essentially useless because they were never put to sleep in the first place.

We could put ourselves to sleep if you want so the change in the events is not that drastic.

 

Quote

Wars could start against them by the people unhappy by the change in status quo. You take out the Grineer who have gone wild and the good ones will never be born. People who do miraculously get born would not go through the same experiences, meaning it wouldn't make sense for them to even be the same character they were before.  

We could find the cure to their decay.

 

Quote

Even the Tenno themselves would be in danger since Lotus was the one that was able to hide the weakspot. In a system where the Grineer are already pirating/looting around, that is a big thing have out in the open. Even if they don't know what the Tenno are, the idea of a large Orokin base is going to draw some eyes. Defending it would just draw even more attention. Which is essentially risking all the other Tenno alive now. 

If the Tenno are in charge there would be little to no pirating or looting of Warframes.

 

Quote

The sentients without Lotus' lie come back early or send someone else. Now instead of a war in the distant future, it is a war between the people who hate the Tenno, the Grineer, The Tenno, and the sentient. So basically the same thing but in a different era and who knows how that war will change things in the present. 

And that sounds cool.

 

Quote

Even if the Tenno did manage to control everything, they don't know the history of thier present. They don't know how to make it into something that resembless a better version of what they knew. You know who was alive and kept watch all that time, Lotus

Tennos have a council, tennos have clans that deals with stuff different, tennos are not machines.

 

 

On 3/5/2016 at 6:32 PM, (PS4)FunyFlyBoy said:

People...we are not traveling through time... parts of the moon is still trapped within the void keeping it from being damage. That is all. Basically, think of it as Limbo affecting the environment itself. Whatever is inside of Limbos cataclysm is not affected by what happens outside of it until it drops. Same concept. 

Dude, when we entered the moon in the 2nd dream is was all destroyed because the void doesnt not stop decay.

We are going back in time to a time when the moon base looked new.

[(PSN)Lowk721]

2 hours ago, Mak_Gohae said:

I am not saying to go back and mess with the creation of the tenno. Just go back to mess with the Lotus.

You don't have to have to go back to a person's creation to kill them in the present. Them dying at any point between then and now works.

2 hours ago, Mak_Gohae said:

We could put ourselves to sleep if you want so the change in the events is not that drastic.

And who would the Tenno trust? Who would hide and defend them?

2 hours ago, Mak_Gohae said:

We could find the cure to their decay.

Steel Meridian is made from the cloning process. If they fix the Grineer so they don't decay they don't have a need for the same process they do. Hence you've just kept the those guys from ever being born.

3 hours ago, Mak_Gohae said:

If the Tenno are in charge there would be little to no pirating or looting of Warframes.

Being in charge doesn't stop people from pirating or looting. Especially if no one cares about what the Tenno have to say. It's not about the warframes. They're were people pirating and looting just in general and a giant Orokin Moon is a pretty tempting target regardless if they know the tenno or their warframes were on it.

3 hours ago, Mak_Gohae said:

And that sounds cool.

Sounds like you want a completely different story and characters then. Which again is s***ing on the one DE took the time to start crafting.

Doing that would mean you wouldn't have the events that lead up to some of the more memorable characters in the game or events. There would be no mystery to any lore or peoples background... You do realize the reason the events Warframe happened was to create an interesting ongoing conflict in the story, right? What your proposing decreases the conflict. There would be no more vast powerful empires to heroically fend against becasue they never had time to grow.

That would be the equivalent of and army of superheroes beating on desperate lowly thugs. Thats not a fun story, thats just sad. It's be like watching superman beat up an angry cat.   

3 hours ago, Mak_Gohae said:

Tennos have a council, tennos have clans that deals with stuff different, tennos are not machines.

And none of them have the Knowledge Lotus had because they were asleep. So they wouldn't know what to do to ensure that everything happens as it is supposed to. Meaning they've potentially killed off everyone in the present.

[Mak_Gohae]

On 3/5/2016 at 6:43 PM, BornWithTeeth said:

Well, that is what you're saying. What you're asking for is "Change time so that the Tenno are inside the Warframes, we kill the Lotus, we wipe out the Orokin and then take control of the Empire, establish the Tenno as a ruling warrior caste, and then maybe go and conquer Tau too."

 

What you are asking for is to keep the gameplay, and to keep the central concept of Warframes, but to change everything else about the setting.

That's my idea. Of course, DE can do it in their own way like they have done with all the ideas they take from this board.

On 3/6/2016 at 3:50 PM, ArchangelusAlpharius said:

So OP wants DE to make Tenno into Ultrasmurfs or Grey Sues with Wardian Power Armor. 

 

Just Stop

Just because you want some part of a story, doesn't mean you should ram it down people's throats. Trying to suggest an irrevocable story change without majority or unanimous support is fine, demanding that you be heard after being told no just makes you a fool. 

Ultra Smurfs sounds AWESOME!

And no one from DE said no.

 

On 3/6/2016 at 4:17 PM, Littlerift said:

Well the Tenno have never been shown to have done anything bad of their own volition, thus 'can do no evil'...
 

Ok...... but this is the first time i heard some one talking about this. This is really not a general discussion people are having. In fact, we get the opposite since we go kill random people because of what they may accomplish.

Quote

And of course I'm okay with having something inside, there's clearly something inside. However, I don't see how the fact that the person controlling the Warframe isn't inside the Warframe changes anything about the game, and frankly I prefer the current setup as it's more original and interesting than just 'They're superpeople in supersuits' story. I wouldn't have been upset if the Second Dream had showed us in the suits, I just prefer the current system - not only do I find it far more interesting but it also makes a lot more sense in-universe than the alternative. That and I find the 'DE need to give us a way to be inside the suit' to often be rather petulant and lacking in respect for creators and writers. It's the ME3 ending all over again, a crowd of people who keep saying that X person stated this and therefore should have to stick with that original statement while at the same time claiming they should retcon the other things they have done to make it so.

The game was sold as you wearing in suits and the story was changed to being kids controlling suits.

So it changed something.

This is not ME3 because in ME3 people just didnt like the way the story was told.

In wardrone we were told one story then we had that story erased and replaced by something else.

 

On 3/6/2016 at 4:32 PM, firelordzx5 said:

Why is necesary a generic superpowered human in suit anyway? it got old already.

This is what DE wanted and will remain like that, Deal with it.

This was what DE told people the game was about. A suit you were in.

 

[Littlerift]

7 minutes ago, Mak_Gohae said:

The game was sold as you wearing in suits and the story was changed to being kids controlling suits.

So it changed something.

This is not ME3 because in ME3 people just didnt like the way the story was told.

In wardrone we were told one story then we had that story erased and replaced by something else.

 

Why do you keep going back pages to find a new quote to argue with?

 

Firstly, the game wasn't sold to you at all, it's free. Secondly, this is exactly the same situation as ME3, the devs of both games wrote a plot that some people in the community disagree with. The only real difference is that in ME3 Bioware had promised a fulfilling ending that took account of what you had done previously, whereas in Warframe the devs simply changed their mind about the boring, stupid, cliché of 'hurr durr space power armour' and went with something that they clearly felt was more fulfilling or opened up better opportunities for storylines and quests in the future.

And finally, the experience of playing the game hasn't changed remotely, and before The Second Dream the story of Warframe was very minimal, and as such I find it hard to believe that anybody played (or plays) the game for the story.

All I can think of now is how cringeworthy it would have been if the Warframe had taken the helmet off and revealed a chisel-jawed, balding meathead with a five o'clock shadow, which is evidently what half of the people who cry 'Eww children' (even though the Tenno are blatantly not children) actually wanted. Energy Tenno would have been a better alternative to that, although it would have meant that the Tenno was completely safe and that there was no threat in the reveal whatsoever. Characters are more interesting when they have a weakness, and there are very few sci-fi games that actually provide us with characters with even a shred of weakness: most are just mary-sues in power armour.

[Aimop95]

The problem with OP repeatedly stating that the DE had originally advertised Warframe as "Suits we wear", is that it also references a time when story telling clearly was the least of DE's problems with that iteration of Warframe. Now that the game mechanics has sufficiently been refined enough to focus on a story, DE did just that. They decided to take their general idea and refine it into the Operators we currently now are.

 

Accusing DE of changing a story, that at its best (prior to the last several major updates), was a single statement on the website, is like bashing on a chief for not making a toffee apple when he makes caramelized apple pie, just because you saw the chief pick up an apple and some caramel.

 

 

[BornWithTeeth]

46 minutes ago, Littlerift said:

 

All I can think of now is how cringeworthy it would have been if the Warframe had taken the helmet off and revealed a chisel-jawed, balding meathead with a five o'clock shadow, which is evidently what half of the people who cry 'Eww children' (even though the Tenno are blatantly not children) actually wanted. 

Thank you.

 

That, as the reveal of the Tenno, would have been atrocious. What we got was far more interesting and original than "Space ninjas! They're basically just grizzled space marines who took some gymnastics lessons!".

 

 

Regarding what you're asking for, Mak_Gohae.....what you're doing in this thread, and in other threads in the past, is writing fanfiction which you keep insisting is 'better' than what the game really is. And people keep disagreeing with you, and most likely will continue to disagree with you.

[folklore504]

55 minutes ago, Littlerift said:

 

All I can think of now is how cringeworthy it would have been if the Warframe had taken the helmet off and revealed a chisel-jawed, balding meathead with a five o'clock shadow, which is evidently what half of the people who cry 'Eww children' (even though the Tenno are blatantly not children) actually wanted. Energy Tenno would have been a better alternative to that, although it would have meant that the Tenno was completely safe and that there was no threat in the reveal whatsoever. Characters are more interesting when they have a weakness, and there are very few sci-fi games that actually provide us with characters with even a shred of weakness: most are just mary-sues in power armour.

Good lord, I hadn't thought of that before. Though now i'm curious if the operator got a five o'clock shadow would the warframe be able to randomly get it.  As it is I liked the biologically children, but mentally thousand year old ninja.