Saryn needs to be unnerfed

[TiberiumDreams]

I'm just going to say this much because I am not the kind of person who knows how to explain the math of abilities an whatnot.

The fact that I have to turn my Saryn into a Regen Molt Tank along with a ridiculously high Energy pool with a Life Steal weapon to make her at all useful in sortie and end-game missions means that you have done something wrong with her rework.

Honestly, the only way you can possible play her is with some form of Fleeting Expertise/Streamline combination, alongside a Trinity, or with about a million Energy Restores. You run out of energy long before you've built up to Miasma, and unless you're running around with a weapon, you're not doing any real damage. The whole "1, 2, 4" combination doesn't work entirely because of time.

You use 1, pop some spores and spread it, toss down your 2 and let the AOE happen and, if you get lucky, you might catch the very end of your 2 with your 4 for massive damage. Why in the world did you make her Molt not scale like a Frost bubble or an Atlas' rockwall? That would've upped her survivability and damage to at least quell SOME of the "This is just a nerf!" cries, but you didn't and that's just one more thing to complain about.

The fact of the matter is that she isn't ANY kind of role anymore. She's not a support, she's not a caster, she's really nothing unless you build her for tank because her abilities are just too time consuming, and the effect of her abilities just don't scale to high level enemies to make her useful. No Frame should be "Press 4 to win", but no Frame deserves this kind of treatement.

[(PSN)Crimson_Judgment]

How Many Times Are people going to say that Viral Procs don't Scale?

Look Saryn Is in a pretty good spot Especially when you compare her to other damage frames (Ember for Example)

Her 4 could use Corrosive Procs to Get rid of that Pesky armor that resists her but that's about it

And What Nerf Exactly? Are you saying Old saryn could Do anything to Level 100 Enemies? because she couldn't either

What all these stupid Threads should Really be about is "Broken enemy scaling and Armor make Frames like Saryn subpar"

 

[PikeOrShield]

You neglected to mention that Spore carries any toxin proc inflicted on the infected enemy to other enemies.  It's literally the best 1st ability in game.  You do not have to wait for your molt to proc toxin when you can proc it with a gas/toxin status weapon.  Don't tank, just use your guns on spored targets while the spores you pop steal everyone else's kills.  Only use Miasma when your feeling lazy.

[ClinkzEastwood]

47 minutes ago, TiberiumDreams said:

I'm just going to say this much because I am not the kind of person who knows how to explain the math of abilities an whatnot.

You say it best when you say nothing at all.

[ThePredicament]

28 minutes ago, (PS4)Crimson_Judgment said:

How Many Times Are people going to say that Viral Procs don't Scale?

 

 

Mechanically, against armor (which is what scaling is sorta about) it scales but it doesn't scale as well as corrosive procs because how absolutely crazy armor scales. So the effectiveness of viral is actually inverse proportionate against armor, the less armor there is, the more effective viral is, while corrosive is less so, while the more armor there is, the better corrosive procs are. Viral is basically just doubling damage for a period of time, while Corrosive is direct EHP damage.

As for Saryn, she needs more quality of life tweaks to get better and the only nerf that, I personally think should be unnerfed is her health.

[achromos]

7 hours ago, TiberiumDreams said:

I'm just going to say this much because I am not the kind of person who knows how to explain the math of abilities an whatnot.

The fact that I have to turn my Saryn into a Regen Molt Tank along with a ridiculously high Energy pool with a Life Steal weapon to make her at all useful in sortie and end-game missions means that you have done something wrong with her rework.

Honestly, the only way you can possible play her is with some form of Fleeting Expertise/Streamline combination, alongside a Trinity, or with about a million Energy Restores. You run out of energy long before you've built up to Miasma, and unless you're running around with a weapon, you're not doing any real damage. The whole "1, 2, 4" combination doesn't work entirely because of time.

You use 1, pop some spores and spread it, toss down your 2 and let the AOE happen and, if you get lucky, you might catch the very end of your 2 with your 4 for massive damage. Why in the world did you make her Molt not scale like a Frost bubble or an Atlas' rockwall? That would've upped her survivability and damage to at least quell SOME of the "This is just a nerf!" cries, but you didn't and that's just one more thing to complain about.

The fact of the matter is that she isn't ANY kind of role anymore. She's not a support, she's not a caster, she's really nothing unless you build her for tank because her abilities are just too time consuming, and the effect of her abilities just don't scale to high level enemies to make her useful. No Frame should be "Press 4 to win", but no Frame deserves this kind of treatement.

 

You gotta change your playstyle, if you feel like it.  Saryn requires more thought then taking a hammer to the four key now and she IS fine.  I've forma'd Saryn AND Saryn Prime, I've taken Saryn and Saryn Prime into sorties and came out with either the most kills or most damage easily.  Sorties.  You know, those things with enemies that are with level 50-100+

 

As far as Saryns Survivability, easy.  Don't face tank. Spam molt if you are getting hit and have Arcane Grace on your syandana.  Saryn is NOT Inaros, Chroma, Wukong, Valkyr, you CANNOT jump into the middle of a Grineer pile unprepared and expect your day to go well, Granted if you bullet jump up, angle yourself into the center while prepping miasma, then activate molt, then spore, then molt again you get style points for pulling it off and kills... but anyway

Saryn is much more then she used to be, The only Issue I have with her is that it feels like her primary is decided FOR her.  The only thing I 'slightly' agree with is that Molt should scale in health/armor I don't get what that would hurt. 

 

Saryns role before her change? P42W Low level nuke.  Once the high level content starts, put her in the closet and take out a actual good frame.

Saryns Role now.

1.) Viral Proc spreading.

Viral proc's are ALWAYS useful.  here, read and enjoy.

Quote

The

Viral status effect

is

Virus

, which reduces a target's current and maximum

health

to 50% for

6

seconds. The damage of the infecting shot is applied after the

Viral

proc reduces the health. Multiple procs do

not

reduce health further, but only serve to refresh the time spent with halved health. Refreshing the proc does not change the amount of health halved, in order for that to happen the proc must wear off and be reapplied again.

Viral

procs look similar to

Toxin

procs, except the color is brown instead of green.

 

2.) DoT and High Level Nuke Frame

Again, you can take her into Sorties and melt Every faction, the nuke dosen't have to be instantaneous either.  With enough range so what if a few get killed.  Just be quicker next time.  Easy and lazy-mans nuke nowadays with saryn?  2.  1.  then 4.   

 

If you are still having problems with saryn, run with this stat loadout and come back and tell me she sucks.

155% Power Strength:

Helps give those viral procs which happen quickly and over time a bit more damage.

160% Power Range:

Helps for her 1, and 4, and the range in which her 2 can spread her spores when combined

170% Power Efficiency:

How I usually go with most frames I am depending heavily on ability's for, helps when everything likes to drain your energy reserves too

85% Power Duration

As close as I could to 100% without worrying, because you aren't going to get the full effect of Miasma from +Duration anyway, and your spores can quickly do their job without much help AND Molt still lasts 35 Seconds which if you get the full 35 seconds then either you weren't thinking ahead (place it in a choke point or in a enemy groups path so they can trigger the 'bomb' or you were trying to escape and kill everything at the same time.

I fail to see how people dislike saryn as she is now, fail to see how she cannot be seen as actually useful now, because I am busy running around with her and dropping enemies in sorties like they don't matter and having little issue surviving when I even get poked by damage once I use molt and turn the situation to my advantage or keep on running and letting my dot's do their thing and as I said, I usually am 1st in either Damage or Kills.  Saryn is no slouch... she just wants a bit more effort before she gives you the rewards now.

 

 

 

Edited March 19, 2016 by achromos
Quote ate my text :C

[PsychedelicSnake]

5 minutes ago, achromos said:

 

-snip-

Pretty much this. Saryn isn't a tank anymore, and people need to stop thinking of her as such. She's all about spreading debuffs as far as possible, and she excels at it.

[(PSN)Crimson_Judgment]

7 hours ago, TheLocalHentai said:

Mechanically, against armor (which is what scaling is sorta about) it scales but it doesn't scale as well as corrosive procs because how absolutely crazy armor scales. So the effectiveness of viral is actually inverse proportionate against armor, the less armor there is, the more effective viral is, while corrosive is less so, while the more armor there is, the better corrosive procs are. Viral is basically just doubling damage for a period of time, while Corrosive is direct EHP damage.

As for Saryn, she needs more quality of life tweaks to get better and the only nerf that, I personally think should be unnerfed is her health.

Fair Enough. but it still scales far better than most other damage frames regardless.

And i would love to see her health brought back up

[BlackCoMerc]

Spreading debuffs might be nice in extreme or rare, niche circumstances. On the whole, though, it's pretty useless as a dedicated role.

Most enemies in Warframe either die instantly or get hard CC from Nyx, Mirage, Loki, etc. Rarely do I want to spread debuffs and kill slowly; that typical-MMO tactic doesn't work in Warframe. Kill em or lock em down.

Saryn really doesn't have a role any longer...at least, not a reliably useful one.

[-Temp0-]

9 hours ago, (PS4)Crimson_Judgment said:

How Many Times Are people going to say that Viral Procs don't Scale?

Look Saryn Is in a pretty good spot Especially when you compare her to other damage frames (Ember for Example)

Might as well compare her to Volt. Basically two most useless 'damage frames', so no wonder Saryn is doing "better".

[tripletriple]

Saryn went from press 4 to win to press 1 to win. People still defend this rework.

[RealPandemonium]

9 hours ago, TheLocalHentai said:

Mechanically, against armor (which is what scaling is sorta about) it scales but it doesn't scale as well as corrosive procs because how absolutely crazy armor scales. So the effectiveness of viral is actually inverse proportionate against armor, the less armor there is, the more effective viral is, while corrosive is less so, while the more armor there is, the better corrosive procs are. Viral is basically just doubling damage for a period of time, while Corrosive is direct EHP damage.

As for Saryn, she needs more quality of life tweaks to get better and the only nerf that, I personally think should be unnerfed is her health.

It's worth noting that Corrosive procs do nothing to two out of the three factions, while Viral always has an effect.  It's telling that Grineer are the only faction we're worried about killing.

2 hours ago, PsychedelicSnake said:

Pretty much this. Saryn isn't a tank anymore, and people need to stop thinking of her as such. She's all about spreading debuffs as far as possible, and she excels at it.

Saryn wasn't a tank before, either.  She lost ~13% EHP to the rework; nothing more.  She used to be on the high end of frame durability before big new armor values came out and the standard shifted to level 100 enemies.  

[DrBorris]

Un-nerf her health? Sure. However, her kit is better now. My suggestions would be to...

 

Give Molt the Snow Globe treatment.

Make the toxin procs from spreading spores stack (this is the kicker)

When casting Miasma, for every Spore on a target the enemy will be inflicted with a corrosive proc (so 3 spores is 3 corrosive procs).

 

I think that would be plenty.

[ClinkzEastwood]

15 minutes ago, tripletriple said:

Saryn went from press 4 to win to press 1 to win. People still defend this rework.

Except that you don't actually win just by pressing 1.

If that was the case then there weren't be so many whine threads about her in this forums.

[tripletriple]

1 minute ago, ClinkzEastwood said:

Except that you don't actually win just by pressing 1.

If that was the case then there weren't be so many whine threads about her in this forums.

You do. You can find out how. There are posts demonstrating it. I can clear draco before anyone hits anything with just 1.

[RealPandemonium]

7 minutes ago, tripletriple said:

You do. You can find out how. There are posts demonstrating it. I can clear draco before anyone hits anything with just 1.

Typically a quick explanation will suffice, instead of implying that there are special ways to do things without elaborating at all.  

I guess you're talking about sporespamming a Molt tagged with a Torid round (or something else that constantly pops spores?)

[tripletriple]

1 hour ago, RealPandemonium said:

Typically a quick explanation will suffice, instead of implying that there are special ways to do things without elaborating at all.  

I guess you're talking about sporespamming a Molt tagged with a Torid round (or something else that constantly pops spores?)

That is correct. There are ways to make your spores do heaps of damage.

I have no obligation or need to elaborate on something people can find on their own.

Edited March 19, 2016 by tripletriple

[PikeOrShield]

3 hours ago, BlackCoMerc said:

Spreading debuffs might be nice in extreme or rare, niche circumstances. On the whole, though, it's pretty useless as a dedicated role.

Most enemies in Warframe either die instantly or get hard CC from Nyx, Mirage, Loki, etc. Rarely do I want to spread debuffs and kill slowly; that typical-MMO tactic doesn't work in Warframe. Kill em or lock em down.

Saryn really doesn't have a role any longer...at least, not a reliably useful one.

Yeah because keeping enemy health at half is totally niche and circumstantial.  People keep saying that it essentially doubles team damage output, but muh Tonkor doesn't need double damage unlike everyone's scrub weapons.  Viral us soon useless, all hail Loki master race, blah, blah, blah.  Everyone knows that hard cc from Nyx, Mirage, and Loki instantly kill all enemies so there's no point in doing double damage.  Who cares that Spores toxin damage can bring enemies down to 1/4 of their health before I never see them...

Now think about what you just said.

[GrimAtrament]

saryn was buffed if you draco cry babies cant get that through your head all ready then play a different frame shes fine where she is if you want to be a lazy sit around and do nothing play as ash and be done i am so sick of these threads  

Edited March 19, 2016 by hazerddex

[-InV-igo95862]

56 minutes ago, hazerddex said:

saryn was buffed if you draco cry babies cant get that through your head all ready then play a different frame shes fine where she is if you want to be a lazy sit around and do nothing play as ash and be done i am so sick of these threads  

Draco crybabies? Sit down and do nothing?

 

Edited March 19, 2016 by igo95862-LookingForClan-

[Misgenesis]

Shes stronger than before actually, by quite a long way too. Arguably next to Ash in terms of damage output.

You can spread over 10k Toxin procs in a very large radius. All you need is 130+ PWRStrength and a Lanka with Gas damage.

[Gurpgork]

4 minutes ago, Misgenesis said:

Arguably next to Ash in terms of damage output.

She's arguably even better than Ash in terms of damage output. I actually managed to outdamage an Ash in the first sortie today, and by a pretty significant margin.

Spoiler

It was Interception, Cryotic Leak, Infested, and level 50-60. The guy with 23% was the Ash. 

Edited March 19, 2016 by Gurpgork

[UltimateGrr]

15 hours ago, TheLocalHentai said:

Mechanically, against armor (which is what scaling is sorta about) it scales but it doesn't scale as well as corrosive procs because how absolutely crazy armor scales. So the effectiveness of viral is actually inverse proportionate against armor, the less armor there is, the more effective viral is, while corrosive is less so, while the more armor there is, the better corrosive procs are. Viral is basically just doubling damage for a period of time, while Corrosive is direct EHP damage.

As for Saryn, she needs more quality of life tweaks to get better and the only nerf that, I personally think should be unnerfed is her health.

Good thing Damage 3.0 is going to change armor scaling then.  And this is my big gripe about these threads.  Saryn, Inaros, and the new 18.5 weapons are balanced to an end game with significantly reduced damage reduction at higher levels, so they need less damage to be viable in that paradigm.  I'm expecting "nerfs" for pretty much every weapon in the game in the coming weeks and momths.

Most of the frames are probably going to get "nerfed" as well in their reworks.

 

[(PSN)CoolD2108]

16 hours ago, TiberiumDreams said:

I'm just going to say this much because I am not the kind of person who knows how to explain the math of abilities an whatnot.

The fact that I have to turn my Saryn into a Regen Molt Tank along with a ridiculously high Energy pool with a Life Steal weapon to make her at all useful in sortie and end-game missions means that you have done something wrong with her rework.

Honestly, the only way you can possible play her is with some form of Fleeting Expertise/Streamline combination, alongside a Trinity, or with about a million Energy Restores. You run out of energy long before you've built up to Miasma, and unless you're running around with a weapon, you're not doing any real damage. The whole "1, 2, 4" combination doesn't work entirely because of time.

You use 1, pop some spores and spread it, toss down your 2 and let the AOE happen and, if you get lucky, you might catch the very end of your 2 with your 4 for massive damage. Why in the world did you make her Molt not scale like a Frost bubble or an Atlas' rockwall? That would've upped her survivability and damage to at least quell SOME of the "This is just a nerf!" cries, but you didn't and that's just one more thing to complain about.

The fact of the matter is that she isn't ANY kind of role anymore. She's not a support, she's not a caster, she's really nothing unless you build her for tank because her abilities are just too time consuming, and the effect of her abilities just don't scale to high level enemies to make her useful. No Frame should be "Press 4 to win", but no Frame deserves this kind of treatement.

Op, you misspelled "unbuffed" in your title.

 

Fact at hand: her damage capability is multiple times stronger now then it ever was, dot AND direct damage. 

She has a multiple of her prior damage AND sets viral.

 

Spores with the possibility to add 100.000s of damage per destroyed spore, viral, free for evryone to profit vs a fragment of this damage before she got buffed. I've explained why or razher how a couple times now so i'm not gonna bother. Just read through the wiki, trough evry ability (instead of following advice from people who have not) and tell me what comes to mind.

Edited March 19, 2016 by (PS4)CoolD2108

[(PSN)CoolD2108]

1 hour ago, Misgenesis said:

Shes stronger than before actually, by quite a long way too. Arguably next to Ash in terms of damage output.

You can spread over 10k Toxin procs in a very large radius. All you need is 130+ PWRStrength and a Lanka with Gas damage.

Ever tried dual ichors on a crit build using lash? You should.