Hyekka is just ridiculous.

[aerosoul1337]

On 2016/4/9 at 2:32 AM, Heniker said:

Another thing I observed is that their hits and animation aren't matched. There isn't really a specific point of time in their animation when damage takes place.

Hyekkas appear to have either one long continuous damage instance with insanely fast damage ticks, or multiple, rapid fire damage instances as soon as their attack animations start all the way till it ends. I have noticed this by slowing a Hyekka down using Nova, and just walk right into them and magically get downed. Essentially, there is no 'danger has passed' moment for Hyekkas.

Grineer Scorpion for comparison, damages you mid swing, when the blade actually strikes. Not before when she raises the blade, and not at the end of the swing when the blade is all the way down.

Probably needs further testing, my connection was smooth when that happened, but I wasn't the host, so lag/network issues could still have played a part in this.

You can test in the simulacrum to be accurate. All those videos showed that their damage registering is almost instant (no start up animation).

One more interesting fact:

Someone mentioned that hyekka's first attack bypass shield (in the first Valkyr video).

If you check it at slow motion, its first hit instance does damage health directly.

The carrier prime takes health damage before shield is removed too.

[aerosoul1337]

On 2016/4/8 at 0:03 AM, aerosoul1337 said:

<3

I used maxed redirection, maxed transient fortitude so it's 155 power strength, 1110 shield and 300 health.

I have (2925.63 ferrite + 300 alloy) base on 275 armor, plus 1110 shield.

So it did hit more than 7000 damage. I wonder if it bypasses armor since it's first hit instance bypass shield.

[(PSN)Lord_Gremlin]

It only takes a couple of brain cells to realise cats are actually broken. In fact it's a familiar bug. Similar to velocitus bullet getting stuck in a fomorian core getting glitched ridiculous damage in. And hyekka does get stuck forever in jumping animation in walls, doors and thin air. And works like glitched velocitus bullet. It must be fixed.

And hyekka master needs rebalance. With it's current stats it must give 3x affinity it currently gives. Or leave affinity as is and reduce hp and damage to match other low base affinity units, elite lancer, drahk master etc. Currently it's highest durability plus scorch damage, that needs to give more affinity then scorch.

Something tells me they just failed basic balance because they probably don't even keep enemy stat spreadsheets at hand. But that last part is purely opinion of course.

[JHarlequin]

 I tend to notice the master more then the hyekka, but they do both seem to be just as ridiculous.  Any AI flame attack just doesn't have the proper limits.  Get in range of a flamethrower and you will be hit by the effect a pretty much uncountable number of times when you should only be hit up to five times.  The number of times I have been instantly killed by a napalm, scorch, or now the hyekka master is ridiculous.  As well as the fact that AI flame attacks seem to hit every warframe wherever they are on the map.

 But while the flames are easy to notice, the hyekka aren't as easy.  Still when they are around I do notice the ever so massive hits when they are actually near me.  I would compare it to the original feral kubrow and drahk charge attacks.  If they ever charged directly at you, they would hit five or six times and instantly destroy your sentinels in the process.  You would live through it because frames are generally tougher then sentinels, but the sentinels would never last.

[DarthyPoo]

The reason why you are getting killed is because cats dont give a **** about your OP Tenno abilities, or ridiculous armor.

[Vohim]

another fun fact is hyekkas dont even need to attack to damage you  , as long you are close to them they damage you without animation , simply  die  because a cat walked near you .

[aerosoul1337]

U18.8.2

•    Fixed Hyekka’s hitting twice per lunge causing potential one-shot kills. 

They admit this is A BUG.

 

But their normal attack does multiple hit as well, not only pounce attack

A level 1 hyekka's normal attack caused 5 instances of damage  reflected by trinity's link:

 

The following video shows a level 1 hyekka hits trinity's link with pounce and normal attack, both can hit more than twice per attack:

@0:19 hyekka's NORMAL attack hits 5 times.

 

And the following video shows how iron skin absorbs damage during invulnerable duration, you can check it at slow motion.

@0:24 you can see the UI of damage absorption: 290->4060->4640 damage absorbed.

I wonder why the second hit is about 15 times stronger than the first hit.

Specifically, @1:22 you can see multiple instances of hit registering during block, this is definitely more than twice:

 

Those videos were recorded @ U18.8.1

I will do more test/video when I have time.

 

Edited April 14, 2016 by aerosoul1337

[aerosoul1337]

U18.8.2

•    Fixed Hyekka’s hitting twice per lunge causing potential one-shot kills. 

Best fix ever! (but it hit countless times actually)

Let me introduce... this is a Level 50 hyekka.

Before:

1 hit deals more than 7000 damage.

 

After:

Deals constant 292 damage (from both pounce and normal attack), and Trinity takes 292*0.25 = 73 damage. (You can see the shield is reduced by 73 for each hit).

By the way, level 50 Drahk deals 292 damage as well. So this is what it should be at the beginning.

 

For some reason a bug made 292 became 7000+

I am glad my post did make it right :D

 

And my     is ready to have some fun.

 

Edited April 14, 2016 by aerosoul1337

[MarcusGraves]

I've been gone but just saw the bug fix in the notes, what makes it all the sweeter is that a certain someone was wrong and can put a big fat sock in it finally.

[Second_Measure]

Now they only need to fix the hitpoints on the Hyekka Master - I doubt it makes sense to have a unit have more survivability than even a Leech Eximus on the same level, which have already +300% on their base health.

Seen more than enough cases where I blew up grineer with my Maim discharge on Equinox, only to see the Hyekka Masters still standing there with about 40% HP left.

[Currilicious]

8 hours ago, MarcusGraves said:

I've been gone but just saw the bug fix in the notes, what makes it all the sweeter is that a certain someone was wrong and can put a big fat sock in it finally.

It was so apparent that something was wrong. As clear as the day.

Obstinate people will be obstinate.

Here's a +1 because of it.

 

[BlackCoMerc]

Glad to see this got fixed.

Now its time to turn attention to Hyekka Master. This dude needs a COMPLETE, ground up REWORK.

First problem:

He carries a flame thrower. While herding Cats. (No, seriously; he literally herds cats). And yet...he carries a weapon that, contextually, could kill his entire troop of animals if they even get close to their Master. This is a ridiculous design decision. Its laughable that this made it into the game. 

Solution:

Replace the Flame Thrower with a Whip. The Whip doubles as both weapon, and cat herding tool. IT could even do some minor shock damage. For effect. Makes sense visually and contextually. And keeps him from being literally the most dangerous enemy on every battlefield, even over and above dudes who carry rocket launchers and literally look like walking Tanks. (More on this below).

Second Problem:

The visual design of the Hyekka Master does not match his threat level. Thus, the visual cues offered to the player by the appearance of this enemy equate to Bad Game Design. Enemies who spawn in mass or as part of groups need to offer visual indicators as to the threat level they represent. Even Comba/Scramba offer some audible warnings and a slight...haze/shimmer...or some such, to indicate that you are dealing with a Corpus Technomage. They dont look big and bulky, but they DO look DANGEROUS in their context.

The Hyekka Master is an utter design failure by comparison. HE looks utterly harmless. I mean, pants and an undershirt. And he has more Effective HP than the armored Eximus WITH WHOM HE SHARES THE BATTLEFIELD. Its an absolutely laughable design contradiction that the Hyekka Master in no way offers any visual indication of the threat level he represents.

This NEEDS to be fixed.

Solution:

Simple. Reduce - DRASTICALLY reduce - Hyekka Master's effective HP. And I mean DRASTICALLY. To on par with a Scorpion. No, wait; less than a Scorpion. Because at least Scorpions wear SOME armor.

OR, give the Hyekka Master some armor, and then reduce his effective HP to match his armor type. 

Look, visual cues are important in either skill based shooters, or Horde Mode games. And Warframe is effectively BOTH types. Visual cues needs to match up with threat levels of enemies. Please, fix this.

Edited April 19, 2016 by BlackCoMerc

[(PSN)WINDMILEYNO]

3 hours ago, BlackCoMerc said:

Glad to see this got fixed.

Now its time to turn attention to Hyekka Master. This dude needs a COMPLETE, ground up REWORK.

First problem:

He carries a flame thrower. While herding Cats. (No, seriously; he literally herds cats). And yet...he carries a weapon that, contextually, could kill his entire troop of animals if they even get close to their Master. This is a ridiculous design decision. Its laughable that this made it into the game. 

Solution:

Replace the Flame Thrower with a Whip. The Whip doubles as both weapon, and cat herding tool. IT could even do some minor shock damage. For effect. Makes sense visually and contextually. And keeps him from being literally the most dangerous enemy on every battlefield, even over and above dudes who carry rocket launchers and literally look like walking Tanks. (More on this below).

Second Problem:

The visual design of the Hyekka Master does not match his threat level. Thus, the visual cues offered to the player by the appearance of this enemy equate to Bad Game Design. Enemies who spawn in mass or as part of groups need to offer visual indicators as to the threat level they represent. Even Comba/Scramba offer some audible warnings and a slight...haze/shimmer...or some such, to indicate that you are dealing with a Corpus Technomage. They dont look big and bulky, but they DO look DANGEROUS in their context.

The Hyekka Master is an utter design failure by comparison. HE looks utterly harmless. I mean, pants and an undershirt. And he has more Effective HP than the armored Eximus WITH WHOM HE SHARES THE BATTLEFIELD. Its an absolutely laughable design contradiction that the Hyekka Master in no way offers any visual indication of the threat level he represents.

This NEEDS to be fixed.

Solution:

Simple. Reduce - DRASTICALLY reduce - Hyekka Master's effective HP. And I mean DRASTICALLY. To on par with a Scorpion. No, wait; less than a Scorpion. Because at least Scorpions wear SOME armor.

OR, give the Hyekka Master some armor, and then reduce his effective HP to match his armor type. 

Look, visual cues are important in either skill based shooters, or Horde Mode games. And Warframe is effectively BOTH types. Visual cues needs to match up with threat levels of enemies. Please, fix this.

How do you hear the old lady screams when they die (gets real real annoying), and still say the enemy is a "he"?

Edited April 19, 2016 by (PS4)WINDMILEYNO

[Troll_Logic]

There's nothing wrong with being one shotted by an enemy.  The game does need some risk.

[Second_Measure]

1 hour ago, Troll_Logic said:

There's nothing wrong with being one shotted by an enemy.  The game does need some risk.

You can have that on enemies that are level 80+, but spare me that I drop on the floor when a level 25 cat decides to rub their face on my leg once.

[Troll_Logic]

24 minutes ago, Second_Measure said:

You can have that on enemies that are level 80+, but spare me that I drop on the floor when a level 25 cat decides to rub their face on my leg once.

Why maybe they're tougher than you think?  Just because we're running around on a level 20+ mission doesn't mean we should be invulnerable. 

[Second_Measure]

13 minutes ago, Troll_Logic said:

Why maybe they're tougher than you think?  Just because we're running around on a level 20+ mission doesn't mean we should be invulnerable. 

I never said we should be invulnerable, but the Grineer got enough somewhat dangerous enemies that are far more fitting being a threat than a bunch of cats.

You don't see the Drahk mowing down people. Do you? Of course you don't, they are made for being a nuisance with their stagger and their bulky profile, nothing else. So why should the Hyekka be far more dangerous - They got a much smaller profile and higher agility already, but they also hit even harder than some heavy armed units? That's nonsense, especially as the Hyekka Master boasts has a ton of HP, a flamethrower she flails around a lot, AND a throwable fire patch. Compare that to the Drahk Master, who only throws around a Halikar to disarm people, in which he does a poor job at doing so.

Edited April 19, 2016 by Second_Measure

[Troll_Logic]

2 minutes ago, Second_Measure said:

I never said we should be invulnerable, but the Grineer got enough somewhat dangerous enemies that are far more fitting being a threat than a bunch of cats.

That's your prejudice talking.  "This enemy should be more dangerous in my opinion than a bunch of cats."  But maybe those are the most dangerous cats in the universe?  Maybe they've been bred that way?

I understand your point, but maybe the cats really are that dangerous.  More dangerous than you think.

[Second_Measure]

13 minutes ago, Troll_Logic said:

That's your prejudice talking.  "This enemy should be more dangerous in my opinion than a bunch of cats."  But maybe those are the most dangerous cats in the universe?  Maybe they've been bred that way?

I understand your point, but maybe the cats really are that dangerous.  More dangerous than you think.

Then obviously DE wouldn't have fixed that 'bug' that they were instantly killing warframes. They knew it was broken, so they adjusted it. And it will likely won't be the last time, no matter how deadly those cats seem to be.

Because that's what game balance is for.

Edited April 19, 2016 by Second_Measure

[aerosoul1337]

17 hours ago, Second_Measure said:

Now they only need to fix the hitpoints on the Hyekka Master - I doubt it makes sense to have a unit have more survivability than even a Leech Eximus on the same level, which have already +300% on their base health.

Seen more than enough cases where I blew up grineer with my Maim discharge on Equinox, only to see the Hyekka Masters still standing there with about 40% HP left.

One thing I noticed:

Enemy stats show on codex UI are not correct.

It shows hyekka and drahk have exact the same armor and health.

But I tested in the simulacrum, hyekka is definitely more tanky than drahk.

 

And the codex shows hyekka master and drahk master have the same armor (base 200 ferrite), hyekka master only has more health.

The fact is hyekka master even has higher armor than drahk master.

 

[DatDarkOne]

I know that they hit hard as well as their masters too.  I just haven't had much of a problem with them while playing Ivara.  I will use Sleep Arrows on groups of enemies (especially the Hyekka and their masters).  This allows them to be killed very easily before they can wreck havok.  Didn't have much trouble with them as Saryn either.  It could be that I'm use to playing a squishy frame, and compensate for that by avoiding getting hit as much as possible.  Not knocking anything said here or trying to offend anyone's playstyle.  Just giving my experiences with them so far. 

 

[(PSN)Lord_Gremlin]

On 19/04/2016 at 0:12 AM, Troll_Logic said:

There's nothing wrong with being one shotted by an enemy.  The game does need some risk.

There's everything wrong with it actually in this type of game. The only thing that should actually oneshot, if at all, are boss attacks that are telegraphed and can be avoided.

[Troll_Logic]

2 hours ago, (PS4)Lord_Gremlin said:

There's everything wrong with it actually in this type of game. The only thing that should actually oneshot, if at all, are boss attacks that are telegraphed and can be avoided.

Yeah.  That sounds really fun.

 

Not.

[(PSN)WINDMILEYNO]

23 hours ago, Troll_Logic said:

Yeah.  That sounds really fun.

 

Not.

Getting one shot killed by random enemies with no warning other than that they may be somewhere near is fun to you? You must really enjoy the little guys that hide in the back, behind all other grineer troops, and sometimes behind walls and wear funny shaped hats and have Loki's teleport ability, with an upgraded stun time, if lokis switch teleport even stuns enemies.

[BlackCoMerc]

Ugh. Commander. That...just needs removed from the game. Period. How something that annoying made it beyond Testing I will never understand...