The infested need a rework

[AdunSaveMe]

Because right now they're a pile of bandaids, an amalgamation of quick thoughtless changes made to add 'challenge' to the race and stop people steamrolling them, in the form of... CC spam and damage reduction. Woo. No, really. That's literally it. Oh, and a grapple hook copy/pasted from the scorpion.

Half of them are interchangeable fodder that only differ in their models for all the mechanics they add to the game, and the rest fill so many roles one wonders why the faction isn't just an army of a single unit. It might as well be, since the team-carrying god units that do everything at once spawn in the dozens and can't be prioritized before they dump on you.

The faction is bad. It could be so much better. Piling on more units and cheap artificial difficulty is only going to make the problem worse.

Edited March 21, 2016 by AdunSaveMe

[MarcusGraves]

-Runners and Volatile Runners are so generic that they don't really do anything for the faction and the fact that V. Runners for the most part can be ignored because they kill themselves anyway isn't great either, a threat that removes itself. I really think it's time to sack those two units for a ranged Infested basic unit using one of the infested gun models melded into one of their arms for the weapon, and I'm kinda looking at the Paracyst, yet iffy on the harpoon function it has.

-Crawlers are honestly fine, they've come a long way from what they used to be.

-I think the Mutalist Osprey, Swarm/Tar Moa's were some of the best additions to the faction in terms of adding some much needed ranged support and just to spice things up in general.

- I don't find Toxic Ancients as threatening as they used to be for some reason compared to disruptor/healer and they barely seems to spawn anymore.

Their pool of bulk troops is bad and extremely tiny with an ok line up of specialist units, but when you compare them to the grineer/corpus and what you have to fight against they feel like the game's push over faction still.

[Varzy]

I agree they need some serious tweaking. The damage reduction that Ancients can cause needs to be toned down for one - Healers and Disruptors cut down way too much damage, especially when combined.

One of my complaints is that some units do so much while others do almost nothing. Mutalist Moas were a great addition to the line up, but I feel like their abilities should be limited to the tar/swarm attacks and their exceptional dodging abilities.

Boilers and Brood Mothers do practically nothing, which is a shame. I feel like Boilers should get the radial knockdown attack that Mutalist Moas have and explode on death (essentially acting as giant V. Runners), and that the Maggots that Brood Mothers spawn should be able to latch onto other infested and give them armor, movements speed, and/or CC resistance (and in doing so, removing the power/armor buffs that Swarm Moas and Disruptors spread). Personally, I'd like the maggots to provide CC resistance and movement speed increases, but I wouldn't be against removing the damage reduction Disruptors give and passing the ability to Brood Mothers.

[Genitive]

Infested need more variety and need to cut down on ancients and parasitic eximi. Constant damage reductions and energy drains are annoying.

[DrBorris]

Make "Chargers" modular, the Infested need to have a simple melee unit that would be, IMO, 80% of all spawns. Right now Chargers, Crawlers and Runners fit into this but they sure as hell are not 80% of the spawns. Combine all of these units into one modular system. Appearance, speed, "specials" (like exploding and charging), melee range and DPS would all be factors that change with modularity. There would theoretically be like, 50 versions of the Infested "Trash" units. These guys should be the only means of DPS (besides super high level units like Jugs). Ancients, Moas and Osprey should be support units. Last thing I would say is get rid of the Charger Eximus (the energy drain one). If there is one faction that should allow for ability spam, it would be the infested. DE should not "balance" abilities by not allowing us to use them, they should be balanced by being... balanced.

When I go to an infested mission I should be killing 3x-6x enemies of a Grineer or Corpus mission.

[Insizer]

I'd also add infested magpies. It would be interesting to see the level of disorientation caused by an infested swooping season.

[(PSN)horridhal]

I have no issues with the faction and they are, by far and away, my favorite faction to fight.  If you don't enjoy playing against them you aren't forced to do so.

[phoenix1992]

While I am happy that you have sustain builds, do mind that infested also hit with toxic and viral. 
This may not seem as much, but it grinds you down in any endless run.

Backing up to see the bigger picture of your topic....
The only thing that infested as "army" lacks is good ranged unit. God forbid when the infestation learns how to use weaponry. But they have most of the roles covered, while also being distinct from other factions. Example :
You can put Grinner in CC for as long as you want. You can't do the same with infested - this is not protein shake, but a game mechanic, that is also integrated in the lore.
You can hack and slash most of the Corpus - good luck pulling that out with infested - it is like fighting a lawnmower. Again a mechanic, that also have something to do with lore - they are simple creatures that rely on basic instincts.  
If we look at what they are supposed to be - space zombies - they fit the play style. A lot of brainless waves, that have the end game goal of grinding you down.

[(PSN)skullblits69]

What is a infected charger?  A grineer dog?  What is it doing on a corupus ship??  Do infested run a a taxie service?

[(PSN)aiptekfanboy]

21 hours ago, (PS4)horridhal said:

I have no issues with the faction and they are, by far and away, my favorite faction to fight.  If you don't enjoy playing against them you aren't forced to do so.

Hook hook hook hook hook disruptor disruptor disruptor caustic caustic caustic ._._._._.Dead._._.._._.Infestation needs a rework

 

[(PSN)horridhal]

On 3/22/2016 at 9:50 AM, (PS4)aiptekfanboy said:

Hook hook hook hook hook disruptor disruptor disruptor caustic caustic caustic ._._._._.Dead._._.._._.Infestation needs a rework

Handspring, Constitution, Power Drift, to name a few.

[IceColdHawk]

Just so i can get this straight...what is exactly so awful about this faction?

[Inugami8]

"Half of them are interchangeable fodder that only differ in their models"

Not really. Infested has the most variety, every unit has it's own thing.

They are also the easiest faction. The only things that can really kill you are the tar, toxic ancient's special attack, hooks at higher levels, and the dog like things if you're laying on the ground. Equip a handspring or constitution mod and it's even easier.

[Burnthesteak87]

20 minutes ago, Inugami8 said:

"Half of them are interchangeable fodder that only differ in their models"

Not really. Infested has the most variety, every unit has it's own thing.

They are also the easiest faction. The only things that can really kill you are the tar, toxic ancient's special attack, hooks at higher levels, and the dog like things if you're laying on the ground. Equip a handspring or constitution mod and it's even easier.

It's not a matter of difficulty, it's a matter of lazy design.

It's about an enormous number (11) of units not doing anything over charging straigth at you, a small number (2) of things spawning other useless things, and a medium number (6) of units doing their work.

http://warframe.wikia.com/wiki/Infested

Moas are the ranged nuisance, Ospreys are another nuisance, Ancients the foundation of the swarm, giving passive resistances and gripping mobile targets.
Broodmothers and Boilers are totally useless bulletsponges. Charging toward you.
We have 5 variations of crawlers which stops spawning after a while in Defenses which don't actually do anything at all. They can't even charge toward you...

In few words. Ancients and Moas do the thing, all others just swarm toward the target.

There's plenty of nice ideas around to fit the Swarm theme.

Edited March 22, 2016 by Burnthesteak87

[Misgenesis]

What you wrote better describes the Corpus if you ask me.

[Teridax68]

I'd say all factions need a rework of some sort, since they all have some issues that haven't been solved well by new additions (Grineer fights often feel like MMO-style stat checks, Corpus units are so cheesy you could dip nachos in them) and combat from faction to faction isn't as distinct as it should be, but you're right that Infested need a tune up. I'd say it's alright for the brunt of Infested forces to be a bunch of relatively mindless drones, since the faction itself is one big horde of monsters, but the base units need to be either a) significantly larger in numbers, or b) strong enough to be more threatening, or both, whereas elites should probably be split up into more specialized units. I'm not a fan of the Ancients' damage reduction aura and I agree that their grappling hook feels out of place, so it would likely be better to have some sort of separate grappler unit and instead focus the power of Ancients on their unique support abilities.

Ideally, going up against the Infested should feel like going against a really savage and brutal unified entity. All Infested units should probably be significantly faster, and should really force Tenno to kite them as much as they can and get really defensive. Zerg rushing Infested should not go well for Tenno, and ideally dealing with them should involve being very careful and avoiding to go against the bulk of their forces all at once. Whereas Grineer and Corpus would have a clear positional separation between elite and standard units (Grineer should have a front line of expendable shock troops and a back line of hard-hitting heavy units, Corpus should be using proxies to hinder the players' access to their crew), Infested heavy units should be on the front line with the rest, and should continuously push the advance of Infested with troop spawning (e.g. Brood Mothers and Boilers), area denial (e.g. mutalists) and abilities that'd try to force combat with them (mainly Ancients, and probably separate grappler-type units). Brood Mothers and Boilers probably need to have more threatening spawning mechanics for this to work (e.g. deadlier maggots, infested pod creation while still alive), and Ancients probably need to be more specialized than they currently are, since they occupy multiple roles at once.

Additionally, I think more could be done to make Infested give more options to players. Heavy units could probably take a page from Hive missions and have far more visible weak spots (e.g. glowing protrusions, which is already the case for some units, but could be amped up further), and volatile runners should probably damage their own allies in an explosion when killed prematurely. Similarly, killing toxic units or mutalist MOAs could release their own abilities in an AoE around them to affect their allies, which would allow Tenno to assassinate the right units in order to push back the Infested (it could also make sniper rifles and other single-target weapons a little more valuable, since killing the right Infested could give you a form of AoE, to a degree that could surpass faster and/or multi-target weapons). A slightly more difficult change to implement could be to give Infested much more vertical mobility, so that kiting their units shouldn't just be a matter of shooting at them from a ledge: the easiest option could be to give all Infested super-jumps of some kind, and a more interesting one could be to give them their own kind of parkour, where they could climb up walls and jump over spaces to reach Tenno no matter where they are. Part of the reason why the Infested feel like a pushover faction is because their units can be mowed down from a distance, and giving them more opportunities to close the distance between themselves and players should make them feel a lot scarier.

[Inugami8]

1 hour ago, Burnthesteak87 said:

It's not a matter of difficulty, it's a matter of lazy design.

It's about an enormous number (11) of units not doing anything over charging straigth at you, a small number (2) of things spawning other useless things, and a medium number (6) of units doing their work.

http://warframe.wikia.com/wiki/Infested

Moas are the ranged nuisance, Ospreys are another nuisance, Ancients the foundation of the swarm, giving passive resistances and gripping mobile targets.
Broodmothers and Boilers are totally useless bulletsponges. Charging toward you.
We have 5 variations of crawlers which stops spawning after a while in Defenses which don't actually do anything at all. They can't even charge toward you...

In few words. Ancients and Moas do the thing, all others just swarm toward the target.

There's plenty of nice ideas around to fit the Swarm theme.

They are all doing something. It's not like corpus or grineer where they all have guns and shoot at you. Each one has a role. Ancients hook and protect the others. Moas shoot tar that slow and do tons of damage if you don't have shields, shoot spores, and stomp the ground to knock you down. The ospreys leave a toxic cloud that damages and hinders your vision. Even those crawlers either can stun or leave more of those toxic clouds. I could keep going but it's easier to check the wiki. Basically most of the units try to cc you and once in the ground those 'useless' units don't seem that useless anymore. They all work together.

[Inarticulate]

Despite the recent buffs, the Infested are still the easiest faction to fight against. Their ranged units are not strong enough to make enough of a difference and their close-range units are trivialized by every form of CC in the system.

My suggestions mostly revolve around giving heavy units a greater support role and enabling the lighter units to close in on players faster.

Ancients

Personally, I don't have a problem dealing with their grappling hook, but I do agree it feels out of place (especially because it doesn't even have its own animation separate from that of Scorpions). Remove the grappling hook from the Ancients and move it to a different unit and make Ancients into specialized support units.

The Ancient Disruptor should have its aura effect modified because it serves essentially the same purpose as the Ancient Healer's aura. Currently, the Ancient Disruptor's aura decreases radial and ability damage dealt to nearby allies by 90% (among other things). This should be modified to be lower, possibly around 60-80%, but additionally negate any effect that disables or affects the movement of allies within the aura. For example, enemies affected by Molecular Prime under the Ancient Disruptor's aura will still take double damage and explode on death as usual, but their movement speed will be unaffected so long as they remain within the aura. Enemies hit by Divine Spears will take damage as usual, but will not be impaled in place. Enemies hit by Rhino Stomp will take damage as usual, but not be launched into the air or put into stasis. (Damage is still affected by the aura's damage reduction, if applicable.)

The Ancient Healer's and Ancient Disruptor's auras should also be bigger. Multiple auras of the same type should not stack, and Ancients should receive at most a reduced benefit from their own and other Ancients' auras.

The Ancients' AI should be modified to have them stay at a distance, preferably so that the edge of their aura is only a few meters away from the nearest player. They should only charge at you if you get too close or there are few or no other units within their aura.

Moas

I think the Swarm-Mutalist Moa is in a decent place.

The Tar-Mutalist Moa needs some work because the tar is too easy to overcome simply by jumping out of it. The damage from the tar should be reduced, but have a higher chance to inflict its Corrosive proc. Instead of slowing down players standing within the tar, players that are hit by tar or walk into the tar should be inflicted with a timed debuff (5-7 seconds) that does not wear off simply by moving out of the tar. This debuff will decrease the player's movement speed and fire rate as usual, but will also significantly hamper all parkour abilities (for example, decreased jump and bullet jump speed and distance). For balance, this debuff cannot be reapplied to players until after it wears off (possibly even with 1-2 seconds of immunity before it can be reapplied).

The Moas' AI is fine as is. They shoot when you're far away and stomp or jump away when you get close.

Ospreys

Allow Crawlers to attack while being carried by a Mutalist Osprey. Archwing Infested units already do this.

Light Infested

Spawn maybe 25% more of them, but reduce the rate of spawning Eximus versions.

Juggernaut

The Juggernaut is underwhelming

Make it bigger. Let it burrow-move if it ever gets stuck. Make it stop committing suicide jumping off the edge of the Simulacrum (I haven't tried recently, but can we still spawn Juggernauts in the Simulacrum?).

Let the Juggernaut eat light Infested units to gain temporary buffs.

In return, reduce the spawn rate of the Juggernaut, but only after the first spawn in a mission (some people still need Pherliac Pods, after all).