So Mag Prime has a brain

[Xianos_Chaos]

We are all continuously trying to figure out what the warframes are made of, but we can agree that they have intelligence, they can think for themselves in certain ways. One way is from the second dream. I'm not gonna spoil when in the quest, but has a moment where the warframe thinks and acts on its own. As the title of this thread says, mag prime has a brain, not sure this was ever covered or anybody found out by this, but I came across a mission when I was dealing with a Total Eclipse augmented Mirage, she placed her ability on Mag Prime and I discovered that underneath that swirling helmet of hers, she has a brain and a few other parts attached to her brain.

Spoiler

http://images.akamai.steamusercontent.com/ugc/543028444626541794/8BFF8AB01CA36EBD757D17F41B3DB231909B4E00/

Spoiler

http://images.akamai.steamusercontent.com/ugc/543028444626542713/296BD1B359DD5C83A6D2E61DFDDD7D454ED303B2/

Spoiler

http://images.akamai.steamusercontent.com/ugc/543028444626543779/BE669DCACAC813998C1B537D87B5748A64052811/

And I looked on the outside of her helmet without the effects of Total Eclipse.

http://wikiwiki.jp/warframe/?plugin=ref&page=MAG&src=Magprime_002.jpg

 

If you look closely, you can clearly see something is attached to her brain, my guess it's something that helps the operators to control the warframes. What if we are looking at warframes that were somewhat human before? Alad V made a point that when he dissected one, he found odd things inside of the warframe, but the brain...a brain that looks very human. >.>

Hhhmmm....I wonder.....

Now this part probably be spoilers pretty much, but I am guessing these warframes were made biological technology, and human brains were transplanted into the warframes to help control functions. And if warframes have those attachments like the ones on mag's brain here, perhaps is brings ideas of how revive system maybe work. The Pods of Bondage Bobs we defend all the time, perhaps warframes are expendable when they die and new ones get teleported in place, even the rag doll physics when we die can explain of the operator detaching itself from it before moving to a new one.

Let me know what you guys think of these ideas as well as picking on mag's brain, any theories of these pics brings up for you guys?

[Skinner1818]

That is a very interesting find, I like the fact that they made that texture and then hid it underneath the particle effects of the Mag prime helmet. Nice work DE.

What I have always believed is that the Warframes are made from Infested tissue, and that the operators simply transfer their consciousness into this body and control it, hence the strange devices on the 'Brain' matter.

This theory has evidence from a number of sources:

Phorid states that 'We are your flesh.' this would suggest that the infested and the Warframes are made of the same material.

Cephalon Jordas also states that 'The Golem is confused as is senses that you are of like flesh' again referencing the fact that Warframes are made of infested biology

The Rhino Prime codex entry is another very strong indicator of the Warframes being infested biology. The behavioral aspects of the creature sounds very similar to other infested creatures, and the fact that once it approaches the room where they are storing the Zariman children it stops and is supposedly docile suggests that the Tenno are overriding the free will of the frames to control them.

The infestation leak in the orbiter at the moment also suggests that something to do with the Warframes is linked to infestation.

[(PSN)UltraKardas]

2 minutes ago, Skinner1818 said:

That is a very interesting find, I like the fact that they made that texture and then hid it underneath the particle effects of the Mag prime helmet. Nice work DE.

What I have always believed is that the Warframes are made from Infested tissue, and that the operators simply transfer their consciousness into this body and control it, hence the strange devices on the 'Brain' matter.

This theory has evidence from a number of sources:

Phorid states that 'We are your flesh.' this would suggest that the infested and the Warframes are made of the same material.

Cephalon Jordas also states that 'The Golem is confused as is senses that you are of like flesh' again referencing the fact that Warframes are made of infested biology

The Rhino Prime codex entry is another very strong indicator of the Warframes being infested biology. The behavioral aspects of the creature sounds very similar to other infested creatures, and the fact that once it approaches the room where they are storing the Zariman children it stops and is supposedly docile suggests that the Tenno are overriding the free will of the frames to control them.

The infestation leak in the orbiter at the moment also suggests that something to do with the Warframes is linked to infestation.

 

Considering Rhino Prime's codex entry, I believe Warframes are alive. It seems they have an "OFF switch" (also rhino lore). The Tenno supply warframes with the ability to use their warframe powers and warframes allow the Tenno to safely use their energy. It seems like a symbiotic relationship to me. 

 

I don't see how a tenno could control a warframe while using their tenno powers to defend themselves at the same time. When your tenno is briefly awoken from the second dream, I believe that the warframe acted autonomously. This explains how warframes need life support, as they can die like any other creature. But can be resurrected by tenno powers

[Stratego89]

1 minute ago, (PS4)UltraKardas said:

 

Considering Rhino Prime's codex entry, I believe Warframes are alive. It seems they have an "OFF switch" (also rhino lore). The Tenno supply warframes with the ability to use their warframe powers and warframes allow the Tenno to safely use their energy. It seems like a symbiotic relationship to me. 

 

I don't see how a tenno could control a warframe while using their tenno powers to defend themselves at the same time. When your tenno is briefly awoken from the second dream, I believe that the warframe acted autonomously. This explains how warframes need life support, as they can die like any other creature. But can be resurrected by tenno powers

The thing in the rhino prime codex entry is not a warframe, it's an infested. When they lure it to the one area where it stops- the reason it stops is because a Tenno linked up to it with transference. The whole "we're getting a promotion" comment was because of what he had just proved. Those scientists had just uncovered transference. Tranference was discovered before warframes were even concepted by the orokin (said throughout the game in different parts of lore). The reason is because infested tissue- what we link up to- is what makes transference possible in the first place.

TL;DR Warframes are indeed "alive" in the sense that they use living tissue, but are not necessarily sentient. They "die" or rather become inoperable if they sustain too much physical damage in any form- but the amount of damage it needs to sustain whether from gunfire or poison or a lack of oxygen is far more than any normal living creature.

You and a ton of others think the warframe acted autonomously, but we had just started up the transference machine in that room and said room was literally filling up with the energies that make it all work. I don't think being in that seat is so important- I think it's being in range of the "broadcasting" equipment for it, so we were able to control it from where we were. Either that, or Lotus could have perhaps taken control of it. In the very first moments of the game when you fall out of the pod, the Lotus proves she can at least interfere with your systems by sending a surge through them in a sort of overdrive mode (you have infinite energy for that section). Who is to say that it's not possible for her to also control a warframe that we are not controlling ourselves? I mean she's a sentient- they're all about turning technology against it's users. Just my 2 cents on that little debate among the community.

 

OP- this is a very interesting find regardless of what it means. Nice job.

[Genitive]

29 minutes ago, Xianos_Chaos said:

We are all continuously trying to figure out what the warframes are made of, but we can agree that they have intelligence, they can think for themselves in certain ways.

I've been wrong before, but... no, we can't agree. We can suspect they might have some degree of intelligence. We know from Vor's Prize they have a nervous system and used to act on their own, as seen in the Rhino entry (although it wasn't really a warframe). But there is little evidence for their sentience apart from what happened during the Second Dream. I don't think warframes even need to act on their own (as in they might break free and cause trouble). Also, the Rhino entry showed that transference can occur without the Tenno touching the warframe. I think that what happend at the end of the quest was done by the operator, or even by the Lotus. She was able to control our warframes before, during Vor's Prize. But who knows.

[Renathy]

It looks more like the effects in her helmet rather than anything else.

[SDGDen]

i think thats just some leftovers from the early days. just like nyx being called femaleExcalibur and ash being called ninja. they probably didnt know what they would make the warframes. so they put a brain in there just to be sure

[venon23]

well u all talk about that but im sure one dude nows the truth "alad V" go ask him "whats inside makes no sense"

[PikeOrShield]

Gonna have to say "pattern blue".  This has Evangelion written all over it.

[Megakruemel]

I just wanna hug my warframe already D:

[Airwolfen]

My theory is not exactly infested but something to do with the technocite virus that is the base of the infested, at the very least something alive controlled like a golem.

[Katinka]

1 hour ago, Xianos_Chaos said:

 

  Hide contents

http://images.akamai.steamusercontent.com/ugc/543028444626543779/BE669DCACAC813998C1B537D87B5748A64052811/

 

That's the texture for the bits that float at her hips.  I'm inclined to think that the texture we're seeing isn't supposed to be there and has been accidentally mapped onto her helmet.

1 hour ago, Stratego89 said:

Either that, or Lotus could have perhaps taken control of it. In the very first moments of the game when you fall out of the pod, the Lotus proves she can at least interfere with your systems by sending a surge through them in a sort of overdrive mode (you have infinite energy for that section).

During the Mirage quest Lotus also tells us that she tried to surge Mirage's 'revive systems' so perhaps that is all we saw.  Our Warframe was rendered immobile by having War thrust through it and sustaining too much damage for us to maintain control until Lotus activates the revive systems allowing us to reactivate the Warframe and break the sword.

[Stratego89]

3 minutes ago, Katinka said:

During the Mirage quest Lotus also tells us that she tried to surge Mirage's 'revive systems' so perhaps that is all we saw.  Our Warframe was rendered immobile by having War thrust through it and sustaining too much damage for us to maintain control until Lotus activates the revive systems allowing us to reactivate the Warframe and break the sword.

Sounds very feasible. You make a good point.

[(PSN)robotwars7]

while I'd like to believe that those brains are scientifically donated, I reckon the Orokin, being the anal beads that they were, just ripped them out of people who they thought were intelligent, maybe so smart that they made the Executors look dumb, and we can't be having that now can we?

either way now I have an image of mag being the intelligent, nerdy girl of the Tenno. the Velma of Warframes, if you will.

[(PSN)UltraKardas]

2 hours ago, Stratego89 said:

The thing in the rhino prime codex entry is not a warframe, it's an infested. When they lure it to the one area where it stops- the reason it stops is because a Tenno linked up to it with transference. The whole "we're getting a promotion" comment was because of what he had just proved. Those scientists had just uncovered transference. Tranference was discovered before warframes were even concepted by the orokin (said throughout the game in different parts of lore). The reason is because infested tissue- what we link up to- is what makes transference possible in the first place.

TL;DR Warframes are indeed "alive" in the sense that they use living tissue, but are not necessarily sentient. They "die" or rather become inoperable if they sustain too much physical damage in any form- but the amount of damage it needs to sustain whether from gunfire or poison or a lack of oxygen is far more than any normal living creature.

You and a ton of others think the warframe acted autonomously, but we had just started up the transference machine in that room and said room was literally filling up with the energies that make it all work. I don't think being in that seat is so important- I think it's being in range of the "broadcasting" equipment for it, so we were able to control it from where we were. Either that, or Lotus could have perhaps taken control of it. In the very first moments of the game when you fall out of the pod, the Lotus proves she can at least interfere with your systems by sending a surge through them in a sort of overdrive mode (you have infinite energy for that section). Who is to say that it's not possible for her to also control a warframe that we are not controlling ourselves? I mean she's a sentient- they're all about turning technology against it's users. Just my 2 cents on that little debate among the community.

 

OP- this is a very interesting find regardless of what it means. Nice job.

The being in the rhino lore had to have been a warframe, Or atleast an early version of it. Otherwise we would just use transference as a way to control the infested and we would never have to fight them.

 

To me it only makes sense that the warframe acted autonomously (especially when it broke stalkers great sword) Why would our warframe break stalker's sword? If we had control of the warframe during those cutscenes our warframe would have just focused on battling the stalker. And I was able to beat the shadow stalker when I first encountered him. It doesn't make sense that our warframe protected us for most of the mission and to break the stalker's sword when the stalker could still easily kill the operator without it. 

 

Remember the new strange quest? If chroma was controlled by the sentients ( to an extension The Lotus...) What is stopping Hunhow from turning our frames against us?

[VoidNomade]

poor frost boy than =(

[SilentMobius]

2 hours ago, Katinka said:

That's the texture for the bits that float at her hips.  I'm inclined to think that the texture we're seeing isn't supposed to be there and has been accidentally mapped onto her helmet.

Just to repeat this for those who missed it.

Those areas on a Warframe that use a non-standard shader (EG, things with swirling energy) often get forced into using the default map for the Warframe when affected by an ability that changes the shader. The energy field on the Edo chest piece used to do this.

So, to clarify, not a brain, just the default Warframe texture mapped onto the swirling energy shader, AKA texture bug.

[Valiant]

4 hours ago, Stratego89 said:

The thing in the rhino prime codex entry is not a warframe, it's an infested. When they lure it to the one area where it stops- the reason it stops is because a Tenno linked up to it with transference. The whole "we're getting a promotion" comment was because of what he had just proved. Those scientists had just uncovered transference. Tranference was discovered before warframes were even concepted by the orokin (said throughout the game in different parts of lore). The reason is because infested tissue- what we link up to- is what makes transference possible in the first place.

TL;DR Warframes are indeed "alive" in the sense that they use living tissue, but are not necessarily sentient. They "die" or rather become inoperable if they sustain too much physical damage in any form- but the amount of damage it needs to sustain whether from gunfire or poison or a lack of oxygen is far more than any normal living creature.

You and a ton of others think the warframe acted autonomously, but we had just started up the transference machine in that room and said room was literally filling up with the energies that make it all work. I don't think being in that seat is so important- I think it's being in range of the "broadcasting" equipment for it, so we were able to control it from where we were. Either that, or Lotus could have perhaps taken control of it. In the very first moments of the game when you fall out of the pod, the Lotus proves she can at least interfere with your systems by sending a surge through them in a sort of overdrive mode (you have infinite energy for that section). Who is to say that it's not possible for her to also control a warframe that we are not controlling ourselves? I mean she's a sentient- they're all about turning technology against it's users. Just my 2 cents on that little debate among the community.

 

OP- this is a very interesting find regardless of what it means. Nice job.

On a phone so I can't easily delete your post but it's good to know I'm not the only one who hasn't hopped on board with the 'warframes have sentience' train. I've always been leaning towards that they don't and that the frame didn't act by itself, we were just able to focus and operate the frame for a brief moment of time in a difficult situation and without any sort of amplification. 

 

Half of me thinks that some of the people who hop onto the idea of sentience are those trying to cling onto 'being inside the suit' or having something inside, opposed to just flesh and what not. Those who really don't like the path DE have chosen. 

Edited March 27, 2016 by Naith

[IamTheSparta]

12 minutes ago, SilentMobius said:

Just to repeat this for those who missed it.

Those areas on a Warframe that use a non-standard shader (EG, things with swirling energy) often get forced into using the default map for the Warframe when affected by an ability that changes the shader. The energy field on the Edo chest piece used to do this.

So, to clarify, not a brain, just the default Warframe texture mapped onto the swirling energy shader, AKA texture bug.

bla bla bla

[Stratego89]

10 hours ago, (PS4)UltraKardas said:

The being in the rhino lore had to have been a warframe, Or atleast an early version of it. Otherwise we would just use transference as a way to control the infested and we would never have to fight them.

 

To me it only makes sense that the warframe acted autonomously (especially when it broke stalkers great sword) Why would our warframe break stalker's sword? If we had control of the warframe during those cutscenes our warframe would have just focused on battling the stalker. And I was able to beat the shadow stalker when I first encountered him. It doesn't make sense that our warframe protected us for most of the mission and to break the stalker's sword when the stalker could still easily kill the operator without it. 

 

Remember the new strange quest? If chroma was controlled by the sentients ( to an extension The Lotus...) What is stopping Hunhow from turning our frames against us?

Do tell me how controlling one infested (out of a massive horde) is more combat efficient than controlling a warframe that can slaughter the horde and then some. It was not a warframe. lore says transference was discovered before warframes were conceptualized by the orokin- and this is clearly the discovery of transference. Otherwise the one scientist would know what was happening and would not have asked what was going on- to which the other guy responds "big fat promotions". There is no other logical explanation for what happened in that codex entry other than them discovering transference.

Why on earth could it only make sense that it acted autonomously? That's literally the one thing that makes NO sense. Every other bit of lore in the entire game points and says warframes have no sentience and cannot move on their own. We were in the tranference room- next to the machinery that makes it possible. Lotus is known to be able to at least interfere with the warframe's systems directly- from who knows HOW big a distance, and was on her way to our ship as we speaked, she could have been right outside our door for all we know and her power to influence the frame could have been hundreds or thousands fold what she did in the tutorial. Hell- even ordis might have somehow been able to manage what just happened. Literally any of these make more sense than that thing moving on it's own.

"It doesn't make sense that our warframe protected us for most of the mission and..." What? Were you even paying attention? We were CONTROLLING our frames- MAKING it carry us. We were protecting ourselves. That beam of energy? Yeah that came from OUR hand- not the frame's. Go back and rewatch the video you clearly got some misunderstanding somewhere.

That's a good question. What IS stopping hunhow from turning our frames against us. Answer: us, and the orbiter. The orbiter- according to Ordis' voice lines in game- is hidden at all times in the void. The void is toxic the sentients- it kills them (Second dream lore + crewman entry of simaris' sanctuary). When WE are controlling the frame ourselves- we are passing void energy through it. To try to control a frame that has a Tenno "host" already would probably feed back that energy to the sentient trying to take control. In the moment I'm speaking about, we were not in control of the frame at LEAST until the moment it moved, meaning even if we weren't the ones to move it Lotus had the opportunity to do so instead.

[(PSN)PillarOfWar]

I just want to know if DE knows what the frames are or are they making it up as they go? And how has it has changed as the game goes on. 

[FoxyKabam]

9 hours ago, IamTheSparta said:

bla bla bla

just a profound post all around

[Valiant]

10 hours ago, IamTheSparta said:

bla bla bla

What relevance does your post have here?

Is it simply that you don't like his response? To that I say - boo hoo.

Seems sensible and thought out to me, unlike some posts.

[alexmach1]

Fun ruiner here: What you are actually seeing is the mesh for the swirly effects using the normal map of mag prime's body. The same thing can be seen on Rhino's Iron Skin, Saryn's Molt, and many other objects in the game. 

Basically, most/all of Mag's helmets have the helmet mesh as well as extra meshes over every part that has the swirly effect. This way, her helmets can have both static lights as well as the swirls (unlike the Prisma armor sets, which only have the moving light texture). 

[Littlerift]

4 hours ago, Stratego89 said:

Do tell me how controlling one infested (out of a massive horde) is more combat efficient than controlling a warframe that can slaughter the horde and then some. It was not a warframe. lore says transference was discovered before warframes were conceptualized by the orokin- and this is clearly the discovery of transference. Otherwise the one scientist would know what was happening and would not have asked what was going on- to which the other guy responds "big fat promotions". There is no other logical explanation for what happened in that codex entry other than them discovering transference.

Why on earth could it only make sense that it acted autonomously? That's literally the one thing that makes NO sense. Every other bit of lore in the entire game points and says warframes have no sentience and cannot move on their own. We were in the tranference room- next to the machinery that makes it possible. Lotus is known to be able to at least interfere with the warframe's systems directly- from who knows HOW big a distance, and was on her way to our ship as we speaked, she could have been right outside our door for all we know and her power to influence the frame could have been hundreds or thousands fold what she did in the tutorial. Hell- even ordis might have somehow been able to manage what just happened. Literally any of these make more sense than that thing moving on it's own.

"It doesn't make sense that our warframe protected us for most of the mission and..." What? Were you even paying attention? We were CONTROLLING our frames- MAKING it carry us. We were protecting ourselves. That beam of energy? Yeah that came from OUR hand- not the frame's. Go back and rewatch the video you clearly got some misunderstanding somewhere.

That's a good question. What IS stopping hunhow from turning our frames against us. Answer: us, and the orbiter. The orbiter- according to Ordis' voice lines in game- is hidden at all times in the void. The void is toxic the sentients- it kills them (Second dream lore + crewman entry of simaris' sanctuary). When WE are controlling the frame ourselves- we are passing void energy through it. To try to control a frame that has a Tenno "host" already would probably feed back that energy to the sentient trying to take control. In the moment I'm speaking about, we were not in control of the frame at LEAST until the moment it moved, meaning even if we weren't the ones to move it Lotus had the opportunity to do so instead.

 

You can claim that the Warframe was not controlling itself based on the circumstances of the cutscene, but that doesn't really get around the fact that the Warframe's action occurred ten seconds after Hunhow gloating states, regarding the Warframe, 'No self, no sense, no death. Just a metal puppet dangling on Tenno strings. Only the Tenno's death will end your despair.' seems to me to be a writer building up a character's arrogance and ignorance in order to lead to a more cathartic revelation at the end. Hunhow's final mistake is to encourage the Stalker to disregard the Warframe, and it cost him.

Hunhow doesn't control our Warframes because he can't. If he could then he would have just occupied the Stalker when he was on the Moon and killed us himself rather than calling in his 'Fragments'. Further, if Sentients could control Warframes then the Old War wouldn't have ended the moment the Warframes were built. We have no evidence whatsoever that Sentients can control Warframes, and your theories on the matter are pure conjecture.