DE you must remove conditions from assasination sorties

[Burgingham]

7 hours ago, (XB1)MK Ultra K11 said:

Bruh,Du u even exalted blade?

To address some of your points (not that you really seem to want to listen to other people's opinions, but maybe it will help someone who is)

1 Excalibur is not a tanky frame, not with exalted blade either. It is a squishy offensive frame (and yes that bit of armor doesn't help much) that gets around dying by killing things quickly or using crowd control. 

Exalted blade works as a preventive measure to getting damaged vs enemies it can kill before they shoot at you. That is clearly not a given against a high level boss that has several phases. Then you have no damage mitigation whatsoever and standing around pressing your 4 of course will not keep you alive. 

As others have mentioned you can either bring more defensive frames like Chroma, Valkyr, Rhino, Nezha, Wukong, Trinity or you learn how the boss behaves in each phase and dodge its attacks while also quickly taking out additional risks in the form of spawned enemies. And yes that is possible, it is exactly how we did it. There are good spots in the room to hide from his different abilities, to use a pizza or regenerate a bit and then get back into the fight. 

 

2. Cheese: What exactly in your opinion is a cheese? What you have described so far is just using the 4 given abilities a warframe has. So going invisible on Ivara is a cheese? That is like her main feature. Blinding things on Mirage again a cheese? That is her ultimate ability that people can build the entire frame around. It is clearly the way the developers meant these frames to be played and I see nothing cheap about it. 

And how is pressing 4 to "swoosh swoosh swoosh" less cheesie than that? I would argue it is more of a cheese if anything, just because a good Excalibur build has more to offer than this. 

 

3. One shotting mechanics: I actually agree with you that this is usually not very good gameplay. In the case of Ruk though I don't think he actually one shots you with anything. He just has a continuous stream of damage, but you can escape that in time if you bullet jump and stuff enough. 

I was against the buggy Bursa invasion they first introduced too, because it made the game unnecessarily hard for any player level and new players shouldn't be punished like that. Sorties however are something different. You choose to run the highest base level content in game right now so you should be aware it comes with a challenge.   

Prepare properly, max out and mod different frames for different scenarios (same goes for weapons), be creative and flexible with your mod loadout. The guy who wrote here earlier using Flame Repellant did that for example, I didn't even think about that because the mod is usually just gathering dust in my collection. 

 

4. @OP: People explained it to you several times now, but just to make it clear: Drop chances do not change wether you run solo or in a group. Not at all. Not even a tiny bit in your favour. If a Zenurik Lense is rolled which everyone has just you don't, you will get it. If let's say you have a Naramon Lense already and you solo Sorties you can still roll that (with the same chance as in a group)! And it will give you cores instead. 

[-CdG-Zilchy]

11 hours ago, ariivanasan said:

ok how i can 1 shot sargas ruk with loky in sortie?

Put quite simply, you're not ready to do Sorties yet mate, you're not good enough at the game and your gear isn't good enough either. Ruk is so easy I didn't even bother changing frames from what I chose for Sortie 2, nor did I change my weapon. This is endgame content you aren't supposed to 1 shot the boss, you're supposed to know his mechanics and pattern and kill him while avoiding his attacks. I expect you got carried through Saturn and never fought him before. Mission conditions on these Sorties are the only thing that currently add any challenge.

[torint_man]

Do you want to complete the ruk assassination sortie? Do you also want to not use "chesse" to do so? Then you're in luck! Inaros saves the day. With steel fiber and scarab swarm, he has 600 armor, cutting ruk's damage to a third. Use his 1 with covert lethality to heal off any humanoid enemy, or use his 4 to stunlock groups of enemies AND heal at a rate not even the level 100 sargus can outpace.

Cheesy praising of Inaros aside, use Inaros for the ruk assasination, I did it twice solo and it worked great with handspring in his exilus slot, which has an innate dash polarity.

[-CdG-Zilchy]

9 hours ago, (XB1)MK Ultra K11 said:

Maybe it seems like whenever I or when anyone else steps out of cover they are nearly downed instantly even with tanks frames like excal which I use. So I just see a probably(instantly getting downed with no way of stopping) respond by finding a way to beat thing game which in this case is just cheezing it. It doesn't matter how fast you kill or how strong your frame is....you just die so why not cheez a broken system?

 

The fact you think Excalibur is a tank frame tells us a lot about your experience level with the game. He is a DPS frame, he can recover hp easily with lifestrike but he can't face tank enemies past level 80 or so. And it's even funnier hearing you complain about having to cheese when all you do is go swoosh swoosh with his Exalted Blade. Learn how to make a real Excalibur and turn him into a CC/DPS frame. No wonder you're having trouble with Sorties, you have a lot to learn and so far you've ignored the advice of many good players in this thread so have fun trying to face tank everything.

[DuskLegendary]

Yes, Sorties are supposed to be hard, as they're "end game" content along with LOR. But with that being said, Blessing Trinity.

[XRosenkreuz]

12 hours ago, ariivanasan said:

or better remove conditions from all sortie missions

So just make them missions.

Yeah, that'd be fun.

[SeaUrchins]

2 hours ago, Burgingham said:

It is clearly the way the developers meant these frames to be played and I see nothing cheap about it. 

You see nothing cheap in taking advantage of extremely poor AI in terms of invisibility? Enemies do not react when you bump into them or hit them with a melee (or other weapon), which is very poorly written AI. Of course if an invisible enemy started hitting you and you had a gun, your first reaction would be to... stand on the same spot until you are killed LOL

Edited April 18, 2016 by SeaUrchins

[Burgingham]

1 minute ago, SeaUrchins said:

You see nothing cheap in taking advantage of extremely poor AI in terms of invisibility? Enemies do not react when you bump into them or hit them with a melee (or other weapon), which is very poorly written AI. Of course if an invisible enemy started hitting you and you had a gun, your first reaction would be to... stand on the same spot until you are killed LOL

So your solution is to not use invisibility anymore because it is unfair towards those poor enemies? 

[-CdG-Zilchy]

1 minute ago, SeaUrchins said:

You see nothing cheap in taking advantage of extremely poor AI in terms of invisibility? Enemies do not react when you bump into them or hit them with a melee, which is very poorly written AI. Of course if an invisible enemy started hitting you and you had a gun, your first reaction would be to... stand on the same spot until you are killed LOL

Ruk actually shot at me while invisible, did a fair amount of damage. He did this twice. Enemies do react when bumped, they run for cover or an alarm fairly often.

[SeaUrchins]

10 minutes ago, Zilchy said:

Enemies do react when bumped, they run for cover or an alarm fairly often.

Wow, I am a lvl 100 Bombard running for cover cos something which is afraid of me seeing it bumped into me? O RLY?

Nope, I got no solution. It is either cheese invisibility (frames or Naramon) or cheese invulnerability. This sortie assassination comes down to it in terms of solo play.

Edited April 18, 2016 by SeaUrchins

[-CdG-Zilchy]

Just now, SeaUrchins said:

Wow, I am a lvl 100 Bombard running for cover cos something which is afraid of me seeing it bumped into me? O RLY?

Nope, I got no solution. It is either cheese invisibility (frames or Naramon) or cheese invulnerability. This sortie assassination comes down to it in terms of solo play.

Your example is funny. You're suggesting "I'm a lvl 100 Bombard that got bumped by an invisible enemy that's afraid of me. I should spam rockets all around me, killing all of my allies and the intruder instead of raising the alarm for my comrades".

[SeaUrchins]

4 minutes ago, Zilchy said:

I should spam rockets all around me, killing all of my allies and the intruder instead of raising the alarm for my comrades.

No, I'd just stretch my mighty grineer arm, lift you up and disassemble your warframe with my bare hands without bothering my comrades or wasting my ammo :]

[-CdG-Zilchy]

Just now, SeaUrchins said:

No, I'd just stretch my mighty grineer arm, lift you up and disassemble your warframe with my bare hands without bothering my comrades or wasting my ammo :]

While not being able to see where to grab :)

[SeaUrchins]

Anyway, here's a Sargas Ruk Sortie assassination challenge for anyone who thinks they got mad skillz.

I shall gift a bag of potatoes (which is 5 potatoes of your choice or any item(s) worth for 100p from the shop) the first Tenno, who posts a video of solo Sargas Ruk sortie assassination, in which the general is killed during the first stage (when the weak spot is his arm).

Conditions: the assassination has to be verifiable, killing him with a bug/glitch does not count, you have to burn him with damage to the first weak spot (which is his arm).

Let this be an additional reward for a skilled player.

Edited April 18, 2016 by SeaUrchins

[TheTundraTerror]

11 minutes ago, matto said:

So tell me what would be a better challenge that would make sorties challenging AND fun for you. Because it's easy to make criticism but at least it would be good if you were explaining what you're expecting.

Well, for one, fix the broken as hell enemy (and similarly armour) scaling to start. Also, stop handycapping us and acting like that's the challenge. It's like handing a pitcher a ball covered in oil and telling him it's a challenge. Most of these "challenges" aren't challenges. If I ordered you to kick a ball down a street, but then made the ball a bowling ball before I frogtied one of your legs, would that be a challege? No, it would become boring and tedious. That's what most of these "challenges" are. Boring. Tedious. That's when you're not cheesing them with a Blessing Trinity or a Blinding Mirage or a Irradiation Disarm Loki or any other frame that turns the mission into one that's just 10 times longer than it should be.

Don't even get me started on the nonsense of the Corpus' cheap mechanics.

How about DE actually add some new and inventive mechanics to the boss? You know, something other than making the boss able to oneshot you unless you use a Blessing Trin? Something other than making bosses take more damage while doing more? Something that would actually require me to do something other than the same, tired routine I've done 20 times to get my Ember frame?

Edited April 18, 2016 by TheTundraTerror

[matto]

54 minutes ago, TheTundraTerror said:

Well, for one, fix the broken as hell enemy (and similarly armour) scaling to start. Also, stop handycapping us and acting like that's the challenge. It's like handing a pitcher a ball covered in oil and telling him it's a challenge. Most of these "challenges" aren't challenges. If I ordered you to kick a ball down a street, but then made the ball a bowling ball before I frogtied one of your legs, would that be a challege? No, it would become boring and tedious. That's what most of these "challenges" are. Boring. Tedious. That's when you're not cheesing them with a Blessing Trinity or a Blinding Mirage or a Irradiation Disarm Loki or any other frame that turns the mission into one that's just 10 times longer than it should be.

Don't even get me started on the nonsense of the Corpus' cheap mechanics.

How about DE actually add some new and inventive mechanics to the boss? You know, something other than making the boss able to oneshot you unless you use a Blessing Trin? Something other than making bosses take more damage while doing more? Something that would actually require me to do something other than the same, tired routine I've done 20 times to get my Ember frame?

Hey mate, don't take me wrong. If you check the posts I made in challenge-related threads, it goes in the same direction.

All I am saying is, right now, considering the state of the game, sorties are the only challenge available that doesn't require staying more than 40min in a scaling mission. So I won't complain about it being difficult since it is on purpose.

BUT, what I suggested too many times, what I claimed is that challenge in Warframe maybe needs to take another direction. It doesn't have to be related to damage for instance. Look at the Razorback boss event we had when you had to rely on a third party (bursas) to damage the boss instead of making it a bullet sponge. That was a first step even if the AI of bursas was clumsy as hell. Look at the acolytes and how refreshing the last one dynamics was. But yeah, considering the state of the game the only way to make the last stage challenging was to cap energy. Look at the moon puzzles for another example of non damage-related challenge. Even if a large number of people doesn't like them. But it's still another form of challenge. Also Vay Hek's mechanics with multiple stage, invulnerable moments, weakpoints and high mobility.

Problem is, considering our stats and frames mechanisms DE is struggling with implementing a real challenge. All they can make is conditions and damage cap (invulnerability moments, stage progression).

About factions, I don't consider Corpus crappy but that's just my opinion. I don't mind having nullifier bubbles for example. The only thing I hate is the "let's give a faction everything, and make a small drone sending mines killing you in one sec" kind of logic. But nullifier bubbles for example implements challenge without being a bullet sponge. You simply have to enter the bubble and shoot the guy. Only problem again is faction's damage scaling and multiple toxic mobs at the same time.

What I sincerely think is that Warframe's challenge should be based on gameplay and not damage.

Edited April 18, 2016 by matto

[Currilicious]

45 minutes ago, TheTundraTerror said:

Well, for one, fix the broken as hell enemy (and similarly armour) scaling to start. Also, stop handycapping us and acting like that's the challenge. It's like handing a pitcher a ball covered in oil and telling him it's a challenge. Most of these "challenges" aren't challenges. If I ordered you to kick a ball down a street, but then made the ball a bowling ball before I frogtied one of your legs, would that be a challege? No, it would become boring and tedious. That's what most of these "challenges" are. Boring. Tedious. That's when you're not cheesing them with a Blessing Trinity or a Blinding Mirage or a Irradiation Disarm Loki or any other frame that turns the mission into one that's just 10 times longer than it should be.

Don't even get me started on the nonsense of the Corpus' cheap mechanics.

How about DE actually add some new and inventive mechanics to the boss? You know, something other than making the boss able to oneshot you unless you use a Blessing Trin? Something other than making bosses take more damage while doing more? Something that would actually require me to do something other than the same, tired routine I've done 20 times to get my Ember frame?

You have it backwards.

Gear checks are already the best form of challenge a game can offer. You obtain said gear and difficulty goes down a few notches. But, you have control over difficulty. You can either bring the gear that directly counters the challenge or not.

OTOH, skill based challenges would mean, either you can perform a certain maneuver at a certain degree of reliability or not. If not, it would lead to a failed mission. Like Sorties Spy. If you can't hack you can't do it. But you can still be carried.

The term "skill based" is actually a fallacy on its own. Because we have the ability to learn and perfect our gameplay through practice. So it's a no win. After a few times doing some "challenging" content, they will still get stale as you get good. Sortie spy missions being perfect example of this.

For games where the challenges primarily come from AI, as in PVE content, there is no such thing as permanently evolving difficulty, that would give you a challenge everytime you repeat it. If that's what you seek, there is only PVP.

[321agemo]

1 hour ago, TheTundraTerror said:

-snip-

1. Handicapping is a form of challange. Look at achievements in other games.

2. Figuring out the tactics to beating a boss and then fighting it over and over again IS going to be tedious. You're literally fighting the same enemy. You're only meant to get wow'd maybe the first 2 times.

3. Its easy to criticize someone without giving viable solution: how would YOU solve enemy scaling? How would YOU add interesting mechanics?

 

Anyway, i do agree that having higher dmg and increase health shouldn't just be the only thing that make things challanging.

[Hesyol]

Seriously this mission was not impossible or too hard or cheap. In my party only one person got downed one time. And I don't think we were very op. Others could kill him faster I'm sure. So if you can't do this sortie, maybe you should spend more time in easier missions, train more. No one said every player should be able to complete sortie. It's end-game content (kinda), so no wonder it's too hard for some people. It must be hard. 

Edited April 18, 2016 by Haldos
Removed antagonism.

[S0V3REiGN]

2 hours ago, SeaUrchins said:

Anyway, here's a Sargas Ruk Sortie assassination challenge for anyone who thinks they got mad skillz.

I shall gift a bag of potatoes (which is 5 potatoes of your choice or any item(s) worth for 100p from the shop) the first Tenno, who posts a video of solo Sargas Ruk sortie assassination, in which the general is killed during the first stage (when the weak spot is his arm).

Conditions: the assassination has to be verifiable, killing him with a bug/glitch does not count, you have to burn him with damage to the first weak spot (which is his arm).

Let this be an additional reward for a skilled player.

It hardly takes any skill do that to be honest with you. I actually accidentally 1 shooted him in the first stage, by that I mean it was not my intention to do it but the sancti Tigris takes no prisoners. Lol and no I am not trying to claim your price.

[KingTaro]

17 hours ago, ariivanasan said:

ok . tell me how kill ruk in sortie 3 in solo?

I went with Rhino and Tigris.
As usually, Naramon all the way. Avoid his attacks and then go invisible when his weak spots get exposed: http://plays.tv/s/KlIJ0FYpauwL

You can try bringing a specter, but it didn't work for me as he didn't expose his weak spots until I went out of invisibility.
He'll go down eventually.

 

[Dogefighter]

23 hours ago, ariivanasan said:

DE you must remove conditions from assasination sorties or better remove conditions from all sortie missions

Everyone else does them without too much trouble.  Perhaps be more careful, or put more planning into your loadouts.

Edited April 18, 2016 by Haldos
Removed image.

[Xaentrick]

21 hours ago, Cyborg-Rox said:

Wooow. People are complaining about that? And yet Snipers Only Lech Kril gets a pass!?

In my day, energy was something to be cherished. There was none of this so called ability spamming. We would walk fifteen miles across the deserts of phobos  just to get a single energy drop. 

 

But on all seriousness, lack of energy is something people should not complain about. You probably remember way back when corpus seemed to drop energy orbs as if they were rare mods.

[Weidro]

22 hours ago, matto said:

Why?

brcause some bosses cant be done with meele only

but appart from thati dont see the problem

[SeaUrchins]

Sargas Ruk Sortie assassination challenge is now closed. Nobody has provided any videos of killing the brat during his first stage, though many people oneshot him on forums as I predicted lol how surprising.

Edited April 18, 2016 by SeaUrchins