DE, how about adding an additional "Prime Gold" color instead of destroying our color schemes?

[(PSN)L-B-H-100]

yes please.

im still very mad that i cant have an immortal color trim on my ash prime without giving him a yellow but.

[Stoner]

3 hours ago, 321agemo said:

There was a topic like this awhile ago when loki prime pbr came out and basically messed up a few people's loadout. Though no particular thing came about at the end of it.

 

Personally i would like a seperate tab for gold or even just a switch that lets me toggle colouring gold bits or not.

It might have been my thread hahaha. I loved the little spot on loki that you could color differently. Looked so good. 

Memories...

[PublikDomain]

While we're at it, why not a separate metal slot instead of just for primes/gold? Or at the very least, standardize the layout so that one slot is always used for metal, if it's present. Right now the metal tint is on the artist's whim. Some examples:

Attachments with metal on the Primary color: Hulta, Prisma Yamako Syandana, Uru Syandana,

Attachments with metal on the Secondary color: Asita Rakta Syandana, Prisma Edo, Prisma Dendra, Festive Imperator Syandana, Ormolu Kyroptera Syandana, Prisma Hecate Syandana, Secura Syandana, Udyat Syandana

Attachments with metal on the Tertiary color: Porta, Palatine Syandana, Samiya Syandana

Attachments with metal on the Accents color: Nsaru Syandana, Sancti Syandana, Abrasys Syandana, Nelumbo Syandana, Opulas Robe, Rota Syandana,

Eos Prime uses metal for everything.

Edited May 4, 2016 by PublikDomain

[LogaMC1995]

2 minutes ago, PublikDomain said:

Eos Prime uses metal for everything.

That's pretty metal

[reverb6]

12 hours ago, Nachino said:

I don't see why it would be bad (One more color tint on the right).

don't use the section "Gold", make it more general like... "Metallic" hehehe

*just a suggestion*

[321agemo]

52 minutes ago, Stoner74 said:

It might have been my thread hahaha. I loved the little spot on loki that you could color differently. Looked so good. 

Memories...

I feel you bro. My old loki prime still looks better than my current one.

[Dobermann92]

I don't like gold on the frames, so I'm happy because we can color them now, however merging tints isn't a good idea, so I totally support the OP.

[Stoner]

23 hours ago, reverb6 said:

don't use the section "Gold", make it more general like... "Metallic" hehehe

*just a suggestion*

You're right. Actually it makes more sense, since we don't always color the gold gold.

I just want it to be on a separate slot... :/

Edited May 5, 2016 by Stoner74

[reverb6]

1 hour ago, Stoner74 said:

You're right. Actually it makes more sense, since we don't always color the gold gold.

I just want it to be on a separate slot... :/

yeah ahahahah

we kinda want it too :3

[Necrius]

Classic palette has a nice shade of yellow that looks very gold-ish on metallic surfaces.

P.S. You also can find which color is gold and just make it default.

[Nachino]

22 hours ago, reverb6 said:

don't use the section "Gold", make it more general like... "Metallic" hehehe

*just a suggestion*

 

Just now, Stoner74 said:

You're right. Actually it makes more sense, since we don't always color the gold gold.

I just want it to be on a separate slot... :/

I put "Gold" just to be clear about what it would color, just an example. In reality it would be whatever DE wants it to be labeled as, "Metallic" or something else..

[reverb6]

4 minutes ago, Nachino said:

 

I put "Gold" just to be clear about what it would color, just an example. In reality it would be whatever DE wants it to be labeled as, "Metallic" or something else..

we got that in mind now, bro :3

[Inarticulate]

On 5/4/2016 at 9:04 PM, 321agemo said:

There was a topic like this awhile ago when loki prime pbr came out and basically messed up a few people's loadout. Though no particular thing came about at the end of it.

There are topics about this every time DE applies PBR to Prime equipment. They haven't done anything about it yet.

[LordOfScrugging]

I find it funny that you're complaining about the gold on immortal skins when the PBR gold is meant for the primed skin. ._. obviously it's gonna ruin immortal skins cause immortal skins don't have gold.

edit: and i don't see how this PBR ruined excal prime's color scheme. IMO, it made it better to color excal prime

Edited May 5, 2016 by LordOfScrugging

[Djego27]

1 hour ago, LordOfScrugging said:

I find it funny that you're complaining about the gold on immortal skins when the PBR gold is meant for the primed skin. ._. obviously it's gonna ruin immortal skins cause immortal skins don't have gold.

edit: and i don't see how this PBR ruined excal prime's color scheme. IMO, it made it better to color excal prime

The Immortal skins had gold before PBR(Ember prime had plenty of it), because some bits where carried over from the prime skin. Now it is just mixed with the accent colour and should be moved to a separate colour so we can again colour our frames like before the changes.

[LordOfScrugging]

Just now, Djego27 said:

The Immortal skins had gold before PBR(Ember prime had plenty of it), because some bits where carried over from the prime skin. Now it is just mixed with the accent colour and should be moved to a separate colour so we can again colour our frames like before the changes.

No. i mean the immortal skins were designed around the vanilla frame not the prime frame. it's an unfortunate side effect of DE PBR'ing older primes that weren't designed to incorporate tintable metals.

[AM-Bunny]

1 hour ago, LordOfScrugging said:

edit: and i don't see how this PBR ruined excal prime's color scheme. IMO, it made it better to color excal prime

I do think it's a bit of a problem when you can't even give your Excalibur Prime his default colour scheme he's pictured with in promotional art. Trying to do so now makes his face grey.

[Djego27]

Just now, LordOfScrugging said:

No. i mean the immortal skins were designed around the vanilla frame not the prime frame. it's an unfortunate side effect of DE PBR'ing older primes that weren't designed to incorporate tintable metals.

The Immortal skin removes some bits of it what is taken it's origin no surprise. However having a extra colour row for the metallic bits would fix this issue, you not only make the guy happy that likes to recolour the gold but also people that prefer the colours they got on her frames since ages in one simple change.

[enJohneering]

So much this. My Loki has never been the same, I had to give up on having gold bits on Ash P, and now Ember P has suffered greatly. 

Don't get me wrong, I love the extra detail, but it doesn't make up for the awkward colorization choices. What once were two colors are now bled together for horrifying results. 

[jjpdn]

Well, I'm betting they are working on something like this. I mean, seriously, there is no way they could have overlooked this.

But, I'm also betting that the change is not as easy as it seems. Probably the way their database is structured, or they have run into a problem in the code that would need a complete rewrite or something. 

[PublikDomain]

2 hours ago, jjpdn said:

Well, I'm betting they are working on something like this. I mean, seriously, there is no way they could have overlooked this.

But, I'm also betting that the change is not as easy as it seems. Probably the way their database is structured, or they have run into a problem in the code that would need a complete rewrite or something. 

Not really. If you check the GLSL shader DE has provided with the TennoGen samples, adding a new metal tint is a very minor change. All they have to do is unpack a new grayscale tint texture and mix the color into the tint mask. It's something like 1 line to unpack and 1 line to mix it in, plus whatever structural code is required to define variables and so on. Granted, this shader isn't the same one they use in the game, it's an approximation. However, the method they use for generating the tint mask should be pretty much the same.

The only major change required is in the UI (adding the new color slot in the Arsenal), but DE has proven that they can rapidly add new UI whenever they feel like it. DE also puts the textures and so on on the client end so they don't have to stream textures, so adding the extra tint mask isn't a big deal.

It ain't their code, it ain't their database. It's most likely just low on their list of things to do, which is a shame since they're already in the process of updating textures anyways. The least painful time to replace art assets is when you're already replacing the art assets.

Spoiler

To really drive my point home, here are the changes they'd need to make their TennoGen shader have an extra Metal tint mask:

// Define a new texture
//: param auto channel_user2
uniform sampler2D tintMaskTwo_tex;

// Define a new color
//: param custom { "default": [0.13, 0.14, 0.24, 0.5], "label": "TintColor4", "widget": "color" }
uniform vec4 TintColor4;

// Add the new tint to the tint mask. Everything except the marked line (<--) is what's already there.
vec3 tintMask = texture2D(tintMask_tex, inputs.tex_coord).rgb;
vec4 resultTint = mix(vec4(0.5, 0.5, 0.5, 0.5), TintColor0, tintMask.r);
resultTint = mix(resultTint, TintColor1, tintMask.g);
resultTint = mix(resultTint, TintColor2, tintMask.b);
resultTint = mix(resultTint, TintColor3, texture2D(tintMaskAlpha_tex, inputs.tex_coord).r);
resultTint = mix(resultTint, TintColor4, texture2D(tintMaskTwo_tex, inputs.tex_coord).r); // <--- Adding the metal tint to the tint mask
resultTint *= 2.0;
baseColor *= resultTint.rgb;
specColor = mix(specColor, specColor * resultTint.rgb, clamp(dot(specColor,vec3(1.0)) * 0.5, 0, 1));

 

 

Edited May 6, 2016 by PublikDomain

[jjpdn]

3 minutes ago, PublikDomain said:

Not really. If you check the GLSL shader DE has provided with the TennoGen samples, adding a new metal tint is a very minor change. All they have to do is unpack a new grayscale tint texture and mix the color into the tint mask. It's something like 1 line to unpack and 1 line to mix it in, plus whatever structural code is required to define variables and so on. Granted, this shader isn't the same one they use in the game, it's an approximation. However, the method they use for generating the tint mask should be pretty much the same.

The only major change required is in the UI (adding the new color slot in the Arsenal), but DE has proven that they can rapidly add new UI whenever they feel like it. DE also puts the textures and so on on the client end so they don't have to stream textures, so adding the extra tint mask isn't a big deal.

It ain't their code, it ain't their database. It's most likely just low on their list of things to do, which is a shame since they're already in the process of updating textures anyways. The least painful time to replace art assets is when you're already replacing the art assets.

 

For all I know, an approximation can be harder to implement than it seems.  But, the problem is, I have no experience so I can only speculate. After all, they are human and I am trying to put myself in their shoes. 

BTW +1 for the explanation

Edited May 6, 2016 by jjpdn

[PublikDomain]

1 hour ago, jjpdn said:

For all I know, an approximation can be harder to implement than it seems.  But, the problem is, I have no experience so I can only speculate. After all, they are human and I am trying to put myself in their shoes. 

BTW +1 for the explanation

Potentially, but it is DE's approximation. The actual math and logic behind adding an extra channel to the tint mask is trivial; the main obstacle is building the actual textures for the tint masks which requires the time and effort of the artists. Luckily, they already have the metallic sections in the _m (metalness) textures and they recommend using solid black/white IIRC, so it should be mostly a copy/paste + cleanup.

The common "DE can't do it, it's physically impossible" response revolves around the fact that textures only (usually) have a max of 4 channels: Red, Green, Blue, and Alpha (transparency). In Warframe we already have all 4 channels in the current tint texture dedicated to a tint color, so there aren't any ways of packing in the extra channel needed for a 5th tint color. The simple and always overlooked solution is to just add another tint texture that can hold up to 4 more channels, and just using 1 channel for now.

DE certainly can do it, and easily, it's just a matter of *@##$ing complaining and moaning enough to make it a priority.

Edited May 6, 2016 by PublikDomain

[Freeshooter92]

And that's what we should do, complain and moan EVERWHERE until it gets fixed. I want my pimp-&#! rhino back!

[SaurusRex]

5 hours ago, PublikDomain said:

The common "DE can't do it, it's physically impossible" response revolves around the fact that textures only (usually) have a max of 4 channels: Red, Green, Blue, and Alpha (transparency). In Warframe we already have all 4 channels in the current tint texture dedicated to a tint color, so there aren't any ways of packing in the extra channel needed for a 5th tint color.

I was thinking they could leave gold areas black in all 4 channels. To get gold, combine all 4 then invert it. Bam, 5th channel.