Defectors Cords, what to do with?

[HadrosaurHero]

Just a quick question before I make a decision, what happens when I give the cords that are awarded after Kala's defeat? Say I give it to the Steel, what do they do, and what would happen if I give them to the cephalon suda (my top syndicate).

[Kaisty]

Well I just found out that if you give the points to any of the syndicates, you get the same amount as negative for the opposing faction. FML

 

Oh and I forgot to point out that if you don't have room for 10k standing when you turn it in, you only get the amount of standing the level needs (I.E. Need 5k for first rank = the rest is lost.)

Edited May 2, 2016 by Kaisty
Almost forgot.

[AgentSkye]

18 minutes ago, Roboplus said:

-snip-

I plan to form a proper response later, when I'm less busy, but for now I have to ask: Are these your actual opinions on the matter, or are you "in-character"?

[YasaiTsume]

18 hours ago, Mints said:

Seems like a fair enough title to me. They're all grown in tubes whether they're Regor's pet freaks or not.

Tubemen are the Manics. 

He doesn't refer to anything other than the Manics as his precious Tubemen. 

[Roboplus]

2 hours ago, Kaisty said:

Well I just found out that if you give the points to any of the syndicates, you get the same amount as negative for the opposing faction. FML

 

Oh and I forgot to point out that if you don't have room for 10k standing when you turn it in, you only get the amount of standing the level needs (I.E. Need 5k for first rank = the rest is lost.)

That's balls. You should make a topic about that in feedback. While punishing neutral parties is bad enough, I imagine more than a few newer players have just as likely been roped into this.

Which wouldn't be that big of a deal- you can still work your way back to neutral (or higher) with all factions by bottoming out with 2 and continuing to level others. But you have to sacrifice materials to get back out of the red once you descend below neutral with a faction.

Which is not okay if you got yourself into this unwillingly.

[JOJ650s]

3 hours ago, Roboplus said:

The Grineer deserve to be eradicated not because of their genetic tampering, but because of the genetic tampering they continue to do. They actively flee humanity in favor of their own twisted views of perfection. But an individual is completely incapable of changing how, or in what condition, they were born.

Ummm... after looking at the New Loka summary tab...

Quote

NEW LOKA
Only through restoration of a pure humanity and the repopulation of Earth can the conflict end. The New Loka are worshippers of the human form and Earth, before its corruption.

No matter how far we reach into the stars New Loka knows it is Earth that has always been our home. Turning away from genetic tampering that has twisted the Grineer and the technological meddling that has corrupted Earth it is New Loka that fights for the repopulation of a world once abandoned.

Sounds like a human only club, while they do recruit Tenno and miiiight recruit the defectors; it sounds like they are no more than tools to them.

I mean, if they just want pure humans on Earth, I doubt Tenno and Grineer would be accepted to be a part of it, even if they do make New Loka's vision come true.

[Roboplus]

57 minutes ago, JOJ650s said:

Sounds like a human only club, while they do recruit Tenno and miiiight recruit the defectors; it sounds like they are no more than tools to them.

I mean, if they just want pure humans on Earth, I doubt Tenno and Grineer would be accepted to be a part of it, even if they do make New Loka's vision come true.

Note that it says "Turn away from genetic tampering... and... technological meddling..." and not "cull everything different". That would make us Red Veil.

The ultimate goal of New Loka is a pure humanity, freed from the errors of our past that drove us into the blackness of space. This is true. But that's not a thing to be accomplished overnight. And there's no reason Tenno, Grineer, and anything else can't choose to live out their lives in service of the same ideologies. Peace, Tenno. A brilliant and unified humanity.

Everyone can have a place at New Loka's table. All are welcome to be pure, if they choose.

Edited May 2, 2016 by Roboplus
Will you help us, Tenno, and our cause?

[(PSN)ATreidezz]

3 hours ago, YasaiTsume said:

Tubemen are the Manics. 

He doesn't refer to anything other than the Manics as his precious Tubemen. 

No, the tubemen are "Drekars", be it drekar manics, drekar manic bombards, drekar scorpion, etc etc....they are the upgraded version of the grineer...

[AgentScarlet]

4 hours ago, Roboplus said:

Rather than working towards a defined goal, Steel Meridian place their efforts in protecting colonists. Admirable, maybe even virtuous, but ultimately fruitless.

The vast majority of colonists are just civilians. They exist as little more than expensive pets. They can speak or do a few tricks, but most of the time they just eat and poop. Any intrinsic value you feel their lives may have is betrayed by the lives they cost; those who have fallen in protecting them.

Those with more foresight, like every other faction, have long-since come to understand that and left them to their own devices. Even Red Veil, Meridian's own ally, could care less about those unwilling to stand up and fight for a cause.

Cruel? Admittedly. But that's the reality of war.

The Grineer deserve to be eradicated not because of their genetic tampering, but because of the genetic tampering they continue to do. They actively flee humanity in favor of their own twisted views of perfection. But an individual is completely incapable of changing how, or in what condition, they were born.

That is why it is up to the actions we take to define our purity. Lest you forget, Tenno- Operator, that we are not human either. Humans cannot do what we can do. Yet even our humanity can be "a beacon for all".

You can find out by checking your Syndicate Console or the Syndicate tab in your profile.

So-called "purity" is worthless if it requires leaving innocent people to suffer and die. Disregarding the Tenno's stated goal of "balance", as it is so vague as to be meaningless (rather like the similarly vague goal of "purity"), the colonists are ultimately what we are fighting for. We fight the Grineer because they oppress and murder colonists. We fight the Corpus because they seek to exploit the colonists. We fight the Infested because they seek to "assimilate" the colonists. Their disregard for the safety and liberty of the colonists is what makes them the bad guys. If we write off the civilians as acceptable losses, this is no longer a just war - it is a pointless one and we are no better than those we fight.

[(PSN)Lowk721]

4 hours ago, Roboplus said:

Rather than working towards a defined goal, Steel Meridian place their efforts in protecting colonists. Admirable, maybe even virtuous, but ultimately fruitless.

The vast majority of colonists are just civilians. They exist as little more than expensive pets. They can speak or do a few tricks, but most of the time they just eat and poop. Any intrinsic value you feel their lives may have is betrayed by the lives they cost; those who have fallen in protecting them.

Those with more foresight, like every other faction, have long-since come to understand that and left them to their own devices. Even Red Veil, Meridian's own ally, could care less about those unwilling to stand up and fight for a cause.

Cruel? Admittedly. But that's the reality of war.

You say this like any syndicate actually makes a difference against a empire that takes an army of superhuman ninja wizards just to slow down.There all equally futile against a horde of clones, robots, and bioweapons.

At the end of the day they all serve a purpose that ties into something greater then they are individually. Meridian is protection of the homefront, secuirty. Perrin seeks alternatives to war profiteering, finances. Hexis seeks truth and honor, law. Suda is cold hard knowledge, scientific understanding. Veil is the threat against corruption, insert batman monologue. And Loka keeps the reminder of humanity alive, conservation. Put them all together and you've got the basis for a somewhat functioning system that could self-check itself.

Apart and they are dust motes against titans having nothing governing them except there own ideological extremes.

Quote

Note that it says "Turn away from genetic tampering... and... technological meddling..." and not "cull everything different". That would make us Red Veil.

Also you can hardly blame anyone from misunderstanding them when they use the phrase "you will be cleansed" when sending a death squad after you. They need to find another word that fits their theme because I've now associated hurt or killed whenever they talk about purifying.

Edited May 2, 2016 by (PS4)Lowk721

[Roboplus]

13 hours ago, AgentScarlet said:

So-called "purity" is worthless if it requires leaving innocent people to suffer and die. Disregarding the Tenno's stated goal of "balance", as it is so vague as to be meaningless (rather like the similarly vague goal of "purity"), the colonists are ultimately what we are fighting for. We fight the Grineer because they oppress and murder colonists. We fight the Corpus because they seek to exploit the colonists. We fight the Infested because they seek to "assimilate" the colonists. Their disregard for the safety and liberty of the colonists is what makes them the bad guys. If we write off the civilians as acceptable losses, this is no longer a just war - it is a pointless one and we are no better than those we fight.

A classic example of not seeing the forest for the trees. Meridian doesn't help all colonists, or even most colonists- their numbers don't allow them to even approach such figures. In the vast scale of our solar system the individuals they manage to protect, the majority of which do absolutely nothing, is so infinitesimally small they might as well be twiddling their thumbs. They are throwing away as many resources and lives as they manage to save, and if they weren't, they'd be far larger than any of the other factions by now.

Peacetime is different than wartime. If someone isn't willing to raise their hand and fight, then they simply aren't worth the resources to protect. They don't necessarily deserve to die, and if they survive until peace is reached they can go on living the same way they did before. But if you exhaust all resources chasing after every distress signal you will overextend yourself, as Meridian have done, and collapse under the pressure of a task that cannot be achieved. It's only a matter of time.

13 hours ago, (PS4)Lowk721 said:

You say this like any syndicate actually makes a difference against a empire that takes an army of superhuman ninja wizards just to slow down.There all equally futile against a horde of clones, robots, and bioweapons.

At the end of the day they all serve a purpose that ties into something greater then they are individually. Meridian is protection of the homefront, secuirty. Perrin seeks alternatives to war profiteering, finances. Hexis seeks truth and honor, law. Suda is cold hard knowledge, scientific understanding. Veil is the threat against corruption, insert batman monologue. And Loka keeps the reminder of humanity alive, conservation. Put them all together and you've got the basis for a somewhat functioning system that could self-check itself.

Your comments underlay the very issue here. If Meridian (as impossible as it is) ever did manage to save enough colonists to make a noticable difference, they would be painting a target on their backs. There's no safe place to put them. Rather than serving the Grineer or Corpus and being mostly alive, they would be found and annihilated.

Hexis, for all the resources they have at their disposal, are doing practically nothing. They train recruits and gather materials, but for what? If they have something greater planned, surely they have enough by now to at least begin their efforts. Yet all they do is talk about "truth" and sit very still.

Suda, monstrosity that it is, doesn't care about this war, Earth, people, or anything. The only thing she wants is knowledge, for the sake of knowledge. Simaris, monstrosity that it is, at least has machinations.

New Loka might not agree with Red Veil's ideology (or lack of a post-purge goal), but at least they're truly fighting for something. We, as a collective resistance, don't have the time or resources to waste on factions that march in place and go nowhere.

Edited May 2, 2016 by Roboplus
It's not too late to cleanse yourself.

[Kaotyke]

14 hours ago, Roboplus said:

Note that it says "Turn away from genetic tampering... and... technological meddling..." and not "cull everything different". That would make us Red Veil.

The ultimate goal of New Loka is a pure humanity, freed from the errors of our past that drove us into the blackness of space. This is true. But that's not a thing to be accomplished overnight. And there's no reason Tenno, Grineer, and anything else can't choose to live out their lives in service of the same ideologies. Peace, Tenno. A brilliant and unified humanity.

Everyone can have a place at New Loka's table. All are welcome to be pure, if they choose.

We need a deeper history of the Syndicates, for all I know, they are talking about "purity of spirit" as well.

This event showed Steel Meridian, but it didnt give insight on the inner workings of it. Steel Meridian was a deutronist and the other Syndicates just made a cameo.

[(PSN)awesomelaw128]

On 5/1/2016 at 2:12 AM, Mints said:

Suda murders them.

Regor seems fond of calling them Tubemen. That seems to be a fairly neutral title that fits.

the tubemen are not normal grineer they are a brand of super soldiers that tyl tried to create in the tubemen of regor event but they were destroyed in the event and its possible that the only surviving tubemen were the manic bombards in the tyl regor assasination

[(PSN)awesomelaw128]

1 hour ago, Roboplus said:

A classic example of not seeing the forest for the trees. Meridian doesn't help all colonists, or even most colonists- their numbers don't allow them to even approach such figures. In the vast scale of our solar system the individuals they manage to protect, the majority of which do absolutely nothing, is so infinitesimally small they might as well be twiddling their thumbs. They are throwing away as many resources and lives as they manage to save, and if they weren't, they'd be far larger than any of the other factions by now.

Peacetime is different than wartime. If someone isn't willing to raise their hand and fight, then they simply aren't worth the resources to protect. They don't necessarily deserve to die, and if they survive until peace is reached they can go on living the same way they did before. But if you exhaust all resources chasing after every distress signal you will overextend yourself, as Meridian have done, and collapse under the pressure of a task that cannot be achieved. It's only a matter of time.

Your comments underlay the very issue here. If Meridian (as impossible as it is) ever did manage to save enough colonists to make a noticable difference, they would be painting a target on their backs. There's no safe place to put them. Rather than serving the Grineer or Corpus and being mostly alive, they would be found and annihilated.

Hexis, for all the resources they have at their disposal, are doing practically nothing. They train recruits and gather materials, but for what? If they have something greater planned, surely they have enough by now to at least begin their efforts. Yet all they do is talk about "truth" and sit very still.

Suda, monstrosity that it is, doesn't care about this war, Earth, people, or anything. The only thing she wants is knowledge, for the sake of knowledge. Simaris, monstrosity that it is, at least has machinations.

New Loka might not agree with Red Veil's ideology (or lack of a post-purge goal), but at least they're truly fighting for something. We, as a collective resistance, don't have the time or resources to waste on factions that march in place and go nowhere.

1. we dont know how large the factions are so youre making it up when you say steel meridian dont have the numbers to save people. Plus wouldnt there tenno supporters be able to save them

2. you say that new loka is the only faction fighting for something while the rest do nothing so here is a list of new loka's achievements

...

nothing

The steel meridian at least led an effort to save grineer defectors from the rathuum and the red viel provided information to the tenno for The avalanche offensive 

 

3. you say that if steel meridian were a threat they would be targeted but they like every other faction are protected by the relays. And even if they werent New Loka would also be targeted because they want to take back earth from the grineer.

[Kaokasalis]

On 1/5/2016 at 5:33 AM, AgentSkye said:

• New Loka will "give these defectors the fate they deserve", judging whether they are "pure" by Loka's definition (hint: they're not--they're Grineer*). If not, they will be "cleansed" (hint: this is murder)

 

_{*Technically, since they've defected, they are no longer Grineer, but the point remains. In New Loka's eyes, they are irredeemable and their very existence is a crime punishable by death.}

The New Loka lady disagrees with you.

[Kothophed]

Red Veil: We should keep the Grinneerian refugees from entering the relays until our syndicate's representatives can figure out what is going on

Don't tell me it doesn't work -- torture works. Okay, folks? Torture -- you know, half these guys say: 'Torture doesn't work.' Believe me, it works. Okay?

Edited May 2, 2016 by Kothophed

[AgentScarlet]

5 hours ago, Roboplus said:

A classic example of not seeing the forest for the trees. Meridian doesn't help all colonists, or even most colonists- their numbers don't allow them to even approach such figures. In the vast scale of our solar system the individuals they manage to protect, the majority of which do absolutely nothing, is so infinitesimally small they might as well be twiddling their thumbs. They are throwing away as many resources and lives as they manage to save, and if they weren't, they'd be far larger than any of the other factions by now.

Peacetime is different than wartime. If someone isn't willing to raise their hand and fight, then they simply aren't worth the resources to protect. They don't necessarily deserve to die, and if they survive until peace is reached they can go on living the same way they did before. But if you exhaust all resources chasing after every distress signal you will overextend yourself, as Meridian have done, and collapse under the pressure of a task that cannot be achieved. It's only a matter of time.

This sure seems like a headcanon that you're confusing for fact. Where is your in-game source? You don't have one, because we haven't been given enough information about the size, capabilities, and activities of the syndicates to claim that they don't or can't make a difference.

I'd wager that most of the colonists don't participate in the war effort because they can't - they don't have the skills or resources to stand against the Grineer empire, and trying anyway would be suicide, which would accomplish nothing. That doesn't make them less deserving of protection. The idea that war absolves us of the moral obligation to protect the innocent is both abhorrent and absurd - fundamental human rights don't stop mattering just because they're suddenly inconvenient. The point of us going to war is to protect the remaining colonies - otherwise we're part of the problem, no different from the Grineer or Corpus, just another squabbling faction in the petty power struggle that ravages the solar system.

[(PSN)IIIDevoidIII]

Moved to Players Helping Players subforum.

[Ikusias]

@ roboplus:

Keep preaching about new Loka if you wish - i KNOW the truth, I've experimented it on my armour many times when your masters sent their death squads after me without provocation or any regard for the OTHER lives they put in jeopardy, they even fell so low as to fell tenno brothers and sisters affiliated with them just to attempt to take my head, no more!

They speak of purity and humanity - their ways are anything but pure or humane.

They meddle with the Infested, they send some of their most lethal specimens planetside, while aware that Ancients are among the primary carriers for the corruption.

Their call for a cleansing, their wery concept of racial purity is unpleasantly familiar, even if cryosleep made us lose so much this still I remember:  look up ancient history or ask the Lotus Herself, SHE remembers still - nazism - you'll find their ideology and methods pretty much the same, is this what you willingly champion brother?

I've seen New Loka true face, in their vision there won't be place for anyone save themselves and their thralls as their concept of "purity" is an hipocritical lie tailored to justify their crimes.

THEY ARE A THREAT TO THE BALANCE AND WILL BE  TREATED AS SUCH - WE ARE THE GOSTS OF THE TENNO -

 

Who will stand beside you after you help them "cleanse" anyone else and they decide to come for you?

[EvilKam]

On 5/1/2016 at 3:34 AM, Roboplus said:

This is a fallacious lie. Purity is not a thing you are born into. We simply strive for the purity of those who walked before us on greener fields.

Oh, quit spouting off the Party line!  lol

I don't usually go for forum roleplay...  but that sir, was very well implemented, and very well done.  You have my upvote.

[(PSN)Lowk721]

On 5/2/2016 at 3:17 PM, Roboplus said:

Your comments underlay the very issue here. If Meridian (as impossible as it is) ever did manage to save enough colonists to make a noticable difference, they would be painting a target on their backs. There's no safe place to put them. Rather than serving the Grineer or Corpus and being mostly alive, they would be found and annihilated.

Actually they all have several places to go. The capability to build giant space ships, stations, and cloaking all exist. Tenno can regularly empty enemy ships that could be re-pouplated and move those people around.

Also kind of missing the point of protecting civilians. Those people are a source of commerce, industry, possibly farming, a continued source of human population; and potential fight force that isn't Grineer or Corpus. All those people in relays, the guards, Maroo, Baro, Veil, Hexis, even New Loka; where do you think those people came from? Meridian's help keep the regular people from being steamrolled out of existence while everyone else fight on the frontlines. That way eventually some those little people can become more Veils and Lokas. More people protected equals more people to draw resources .

Which might explain Red Veil's relationship with Meridian.

On 5/2/2016 at 3:17 PM, Roboplus said:

Hexis, for all the resources they have at their disposal, are doing practically nothing. They train recruits and gather materials, but for what? If they have something greater planned, surely they have enough by now to at least begin their efforts. Yet all they do is talk about "truth" and sit very still.

The Tenno are army of super-soldiers who had been trained to destroy their enemy. What happens if they do and suddenly there are a lot less enemies to destroy. I think having some presence reminding them of other ways besides the warrior would be a good thing. Also truth and justice and all that.

On 5/2/2016 at 3:17 PM, Roboplus said:

Suda, monstrosity that it is, doesn't care about this war, Earth, people, or anything. The only thing she wants is knowledge, for the sake of knowledge. Simaris, monstrosity that it is, at least has machinations.

She's a cephalon, cehpalons have a purpose. Her's is collecting rare, lost, or forgotten information. Information like what allowed to construct more powerful singularity projectors. She is an archive of Knowledge and knowledge is power.

Samaris however is more focused on his matrix zoo. Which is important for history reasons.

Cordy is more involved with being Lotus' assistant.

They all collect data but normally for varied reasons which can lead to them each searching for different stuff the other does not.

On 5/2/2016 at 3:17 PM, Roboplus said:

New Loka might not agree with Red Veil's ideology (or lack of a post-purge goal), but at least they're truly fighting for something. We, as a collective resistance, don't have the time or resources to waste on factions that march in place and go nowhere.

Yes, and that is there part. Meridian's part is to protect the people. Veil helps those people fight back. Suda is an archive of knowledge. Perrin is peaceful commerce. Hexis and Loka are reminders of better ways. Everyone's a gear in the machine.

 

[(PSN)Lowk721]

On 5/2/2016 at 3:17 PM, Roboplus said:

A classic example of not seeing the forest for the trees. Meridian doesn't help all colonists, or even most colonists- their numbers don't allow them to even approach such figures. In the vast scale of our solar system the individuals they manage to protect, the majority of which do absolutely nothing, is so infinitesimally small they might as well be twiddling their thumbs. They are throwing away as many resources and lives as they manage to save, and if they weren't, they'd be far larger than any of the other factions by now.

1. As noted in the lore the colony numbers aren't really as high as you seem to think they are. Plus they also operate on the same method of fighting everyone else is.
"the Steel Meridian fight a guerrilla war against a vast enemy. They are sworn protectors of what little remains of the colonies."
The only difference between them and what everyone else does is where they fight.

2. Why would successful saving colonies increase their number. The Meridian is made up of Grineer defectors. If anything their success would help increase the numbers of Red Veil... Every time I bring these two up I think of another reason why Veil and Meridian like each other.