Do you guys think Self-Damage should be removed?

[Luther848]

1 hour ago, ViLeDeth said:

Oh man...dumb things get me. lol

 

Oh man I didn't finish my sentence did I. Well anyway what I meant to say is that experienced Explosive Users typically don't have to worry about killing themselves and most of their deaths are from some idiot running in front of them or some random object had a weird hitbox resulting in a dead Tenno.

[ReshyShira]

1 hour ago, Raztan said:

I think friendly fire would add a certain difficulty to the game and really change the way the game would be played, adds immersion and players would have to start paying attention to what they are doing.

I would like to have friendly fire on all weapons, but I am not sure the game is ready for that in its current iteration and scaling situation.

Who knows what future damage content will bring us, only time will tell.

That invite griefing, that's definitely detrimental to the game when someone pulls out the kulstar and kills the entire squad and laughs about it.

[ReshyShira]

43 minutes ago, Espelonia said:

I think it makes it more realistic. I mean if I had any of these things, especially the weapons, I probably would have accidentally killed myself thousands of times. It makes it funnier for me but I do think it can be frustrating sometimes.

Realism is not a reason to push game-design.  Besides, I'm fairly certain that there would have been devised a way to direct most, if not all, the explosive force against the target rather than radially hitting everything around it, including the user.

[Fionntan]

20 minutes ago, Jakorak said:

I'm just sitting here laughing my &#! off at all the salt going to the tonkor when this has been an issue since the Torid which noone seems to even remember exists. Torid: not as powerful as the tonkor but slightly more powerful than all the other explosives, with 0 self damage. Explosives are just a complete joke with their design inconsistency.

From my experience the reasons why Torid was forgotten by many or barely used :

• Cloud doesn't last long 
• Enemies will pass thru the small cloud quickly (no CC to counter it)
• Reload is bad & Low Fire Rate

At that point I would pick Ogris instead with Nightwatch Napalm, guaranteed CC and more damage per shot. I don't playing with fire (⌐■_■)

Yes it has the same reload issue so all I do is add a mod to mitigate it.

 

As for topic on self-damage same idea as I seen floating in reply/forums:

• Nerf the self-damage to least leave some small health (fixed damage)

Meanwhile, since many are already talking about Tonkor:

 

[Hixlysss]

They should either make all the aoe explody things do self damage, or find some other way to "balance" them, as the self damage is to keep you from running into a group and nuking yourself with an orgris or something, they could just as easily have it knock you on your &#! and keep you there for a bit rather than put you down.

[(PSN)FriendSharkey]

I'd take all explosive weapons generating Over Shields like Energy Syphon or Rejuvenation if the Tonkor has to be gimped with Self Damage. This might make a good aura card like Rifle Scavenger where it specifically targets a class of weapons. I'd rather lift the other weapons to No Self Damage, but I could live with a arua mod that effects Explosive Weapons and benefits their users. 

Edited May 10, 2016 by (PS4)FriendSharkey

[reverb6]

I vote for explosive weapons dealt self-damage.

Even though Tonkor sometimes doesn't make sense... heheheh XD

PS. I've died before because of MY OWN Tonkor.

[SergeiTheBeast]

It teaches you not to be a dingleberry and actually think before you shoot. Sure it's annoying but what game do you know that has rocket launchers and grenades that don't do self damage? I don't know of any off hand, I'm sure there is one but it belongs.

 

That being said it's beyond FRUSTRATING When a teammate or their companion just happens to walk in front of you right as you pull that trigger.

Edited May 10, 2016 by SergeiTheBeast

[Luther848]

57 minutes ago, SergeiTheBeast said:

It teaches you not to be a dingleberry and actually think before you shoot. Sure it's annoying but what game do you know that has rocket launchers and grenades that don't do self damage? I don't know of any off hand, I'm sure there is one but it belongs.

 

That being said it's beyond FRUSTRATING When a teammate or their companion just happens to walk in front of you right as you pull that trigger.

Ok so we'll be the first game that has explosives that don't do self damage. 

[climatiseur]

I think both sides have their procs and cons and the problem is that it is inconsistent: either all of them should have self-damage or none of them should have self-damage. Right now everyone is abusing tonkor while other same type weapons hardly seen any uses except particular builds.

[RX-3DR]

I'd like to point out that removing self-damage will just create a situation where Explosive weapons become almost entirely superior to everything else. It becomes extremely easy to detonate Penta rounds immediately upon leaving the barrel or firing an Orgis rocket straight into the floor while running into enemies to kill them.

If the concept of buffing everything to match the top is going to be kept, what's going to happen next is that the Ignis will need to be buffed to be able to compete with Explosive weapon at close range and that will affect another weapon.

[Luther848]

28 minutes ago, Flandyrll said:

I'd like to point out that removing self-damage will just create a situation where Explosive weapons become almost entirely superior to everything else. It becomes extremely easy to detonate Penta rounds immediately upon leaving the barrel or firing an Orgis rocket straight into the floor while running into enemies to kill them.

If the concept of buffing everything to match the top is going to be kept, what's going to happen next is that the Ignis will need to be buffed to be able to compete with Explosive weapon at close range and that will affect another weapon.

Explosives aren't good against everything because their natural damage type is probably Blast ( not that great against armor), Certain Enemies such as Bursas, Bosses,(explosives typically can't hit weakpoints) or Healing Ancients can make them almost worthless, Their status and crit chance are typically low (with one major outlier) making them hard to use for status or crits, and theiy have some of the smallest ammo pools in the game. Quite frankly it would simply be easier to put punch-through on a Soma P or something and basically get an easier to use weapon that is just as effective.

Although removing self-damage is a buff it wouldn't spontaneously make these weapons "top teir". I don't see the correlation between removing a game mechanic that doesn't have any logic behind it or benefit a weapon class and having to suddenly buff every other weapon to compensate. Realistically it would be simpler to just restrain the outliers or rebalance them than to buff all the weapons in the game.

Edited May 10, 2016 by Luther848

[X5934-078FR1]

Yes

[Omnimorph]

Self-damage should stay, but should be across the board less than it is, though higher than the Tonkor. 

The Tonkor should be brought in line too, and rocket jump be a special attack that does little damage to mobs, and is used just for the lol/mobility factor.

[Dobermann92]

It is very funny to get killed once or twice by your own weapon every mission...for a while. Then it become annoying so I would like to see a self-damage reduction as well.

I made a test with my full corrosive damage penta and I noticed that except Wukong (and Valkyr, but you cannot activate it) it can one shot every frame (even a max strength+armor+hp rhino prime with Iron Skin) and using Firestorm mod in these weapons just make it worse.

Edited May 10, 2016 by Dobermann92

[Hesyol]

Self-damage should be removed or at least lowered. In a game, where you have to deal with large crowds of enemies, aoe weapons are only good solution. And here, for some reason, we have weapons that deal self-damage and some that don't. Of course everyone is using Tonkor, sonicor, etc.

[(PSN)Magician_NG]

That would make a Blessing Trinity's job more difficult.

So my answer is, "no, self-damage shouldn't be removed."

[ravend]

Needs to stay in as is, but i think tonkor needs to be added to the list. with bullet jump and double jump in the game, there is no need or function that the blast jump provides. second is that it makes the tonkor a go too weapon for point blanking a grenade shot without worries. the only reason it isnt WAY op is because its 2 magazine size, unless you pump the mag size to 4 with mods. but then you having to burn alot of mod slots to get that high. Both the ogris and penta have good mag sizes and without self damage you could mow down groups easily by jumping in the middle of group and assuring your kill shots with easy.

[(PSN)Akuma_Asura_]

hell no , i need it for my chroma

[RextintorZ]

18 hours ago, Luther848 said:

What are you balancing against by the way.

 

The thing is I'm making a suggestion to make other explosive weapons better or at least not as suicidey.

 

I agree with all that you have said.

Uh, I don't know... high damage? If you properly mod the Kulstar, you can cause so much damage. The self-damage is sort of there to balance so you can't just run all over the map and shooting enemies at close range without any penalties.

It's an explosive weapon. Of course it should have a risk for you AND the enemy. It's a balance.

Edited May 10, 2016 by RextintorZ

[(PSN)MoRockaPDX]

Late to this party, but my concerns are so; Self damage makes sense both for balance and for immersion, explosives hurt. However, the Trinity blessing build creates a overpowered easy mode, only balanced by the excessive build requirement and skill.

[Tizodd]

I don't think self damage should be removed, but I do think it should be consistent among all explosive weapons.  I'm so tired of people fearlessly spamming Tonkor grenades all over the place.  But hit a teammate in the back with an Angstrum by mistake and you're toast...makes no sense.

[Luther848]

3 hours ago, RextintorZ said:

Uh, I don't know... high damage? If you properly mod the Kulstar, you can cause so much damage. The self-damage is sort of there to balance so you can't just run all over the map and shooting enemies at close range without any penalties.

It's an explosive weapon. Of course it should have a risk for you AND the enemy. It's a balance.

But the Staticore does incredible damage and you can simply walk around shoot the enemy at close range without any penalties.

[Novolunos]

I forgot to add that another downside of self damage is that enemies don't really have it but we do. There is Hyekka Masters but I'm not sure if the setting themselves and their cats on fire in supposed to happen or if it's a bug. But I do think that it's ridiculous that if I'm surrounded by enemies a if some enemy like a bombard fires at me I'm the only one that gets hurt. If friendly fire is real I think it should be real for everyone.

However, I can see why a lot of people wouldn't like this, would think it would remove some of Warframes main points, mess up the game, etc. Also most games are like this. But I think it would be nice. Just my opinion.

[DeadlyPeanutt]

23 hours ago, Luther848 said:

But Self-Damage won't make the content any harder than it was before considering the best weapons in the game don't have self-damage. All it really does is stop people from using cool weapons because they have to worry about not dying from the enemies and not killing themselves.

torrid, quanta, SS, sonicor, staticor, etc... none of them have self damage.  no weapons besides launchers have self damage.  and launchers don't have FF damage. 

self damage makes very little sense.