Tonkor Balancing (Nerf) discussion..

[(PSN)FriendSharkey]

This is going to turn into the 49 page discussion already in the Weapons Forum. If the Tonkor has to be nerfed with Self Damage, then really consider a new Aura Mod specific to Explosive Weapons. Charging up a Overshield to protect the user would allow this branch of weapons to keep their stats or future buffs, while embracing the self damage and inherit risk. Yet, now that player has a fighting chance against the random round or grenade exploding in their face. A fully charged Overshield would also allow the occasional fun rocket jump, or the bum rush grenade shotgun blast that makes the Tonkor fun.

Only this time you could add the Penta and The Ogris to that statement if such an Aura Mod existed for Grenade and Rocket Launchers. I used the Penta back before the Tonkor and with the alt fire being all messed up now on Consoles you find yourself stopping, aiming, firing, checking the arc, and then toggling the explosion on your D-pad rather than your trigger set up. By the time you've done all of this the entire team has already cleared the area and are already crossing into the third room. 

Or worse trying to jump infront of you for the LELs. 

Edited May 13, 2016 by (PS4)FriendSharkey

[AEP8FlyBoy]

4 minutes ago, (PS4)SupeBoss said:

But adding a downside to a weapon that (for all intents and purposes) has no downside is a nerf.

What?

Adding a downside to a weapon with no downsides isn't a nerf. It's called balance.

When all other launchers have it, the fact that the Tonkor doesn't (not even going to use the grenade jump as an excuse anymore) is a crime in and of itself. It already bests all other launchers already, the Addition of self-damage will not be a nerf to the weapon in the slightest.

Just a worthwhile and much needed function, that should've been existent from the beginning. (At least after Parkour 2.0, where it voided the need for a launcher that could launch you.)

[(PSN)AngelShur]

14 minutes ago, (PS4)Tactless_Ninja said:

If Tonkor gains self damage the drop in usage would be tremendous. It has only 2 shots, abysmal accuracy, and the bouncy grenades are sure to down you. It's like fixing difficulty by making every enemy spongey. It fixes nothing.

Staticor has nearly 100% status with radiation. Even if it doesn't outright kill them, they kill themselves.

So you're saying that I should actually change the topic to Staticor? 

I believe that this weapon is digging it's own grave honestly right now!

[Xekrin]

1 hour ago, clemza said:

Self damage ? On a tonkor ? It would ruin the weapon since your using it to jump ...

This is your defense? Seriously? Red crit aoe launcher and it will be ruined because "I need it to  jump!"

This matter really is simple, all launchers (including castanas) should have some self damage but THAT needs nerfed on all others, the self damage on tonkor needs buffed to match.

It should be at most 25% health or 25% damage whichever is more for every self damage weapon.  Enough to hurt but not enough to ruin your day.  Tonkor can still be used to jump just fine.

Also was this thread really needed? the 2,000 reply tonkor thread not enough?

[AEP8FlyBoy]

2 minutes ago, Xekrin said:

Also was this thread really needed? the 2,000 reply tonkor thread not enough?

In all honestly.

Probably not.

But nice input on the subject though.

[NightElve]

1 hour ago, Maicael said:

I'd say remove crit/status from it, lower the MR requirement to 3 and make it a new player launcher that won't kill them while they learn to use launchers. (Build requirements would also have to be adjusted as well)

remove crits?? all those guys talking about nerfing weapons? it's so weird coming from players, i put 8 Forma on that weapon and enjoy it, if it's overpowered why dont you go use the other billion weapons in the game? #LeaveTonkorAlone!! , about being MR locked, let people play the game and have fun, we are not pursuing degrees in warframe i'm doing that in uni, inc crit damage for all i care , i want a fun weapon to use. if Tonkor is overpowered please go use other weapons!!!!!

[DxAdder]

10 minutes ago, AEP8FlyBoy said:

That's your choice in the end, if you want to go the "easy" route and not blow yourself to smithereens, by all means.

But if you will give up the love you have for the Tonkor, just because of the addition of self-damage... what does that say about you?

I don't "Love" The Tonkor and if its nerfed I would just move on to next best efficient killing primary. I fact you can nerf all the primaries AND secondaries in the game.

Don't matter I would just turn on Naramon and wipe the map anyways, might take longer but the result is the same the AI enemies NEVER had a chance.

 

 

 

[DeadlyPeanutt]

i agree with OP:  tonkor does NOT need a nerf.  tonkor does, however, need a prime version

In a PvE game, if you don't like a weapon, don't play it.   If you just can't STAND to see other players enjoying the weapon you don't like, don't allow it in your squad.    you have a choice. 

judging from the numbers of people using tonkor, i have a lot of company in believing that tonkor is fine as is.

tonkor is fun.  fun is the reason we play computer games.   

btw, SS, sonicor, staticor, torrid and jat kitty do NOT need nerfs either... just to clear that up.

 

Edited May 13, 2016 by DeadlyPeanutt

[(PSN)Tactless_Ninja]

11 minutes ago, (PS4)AngelShur said:

So you're saying that I should actually change the topic to Staticor? 

Did you completely ignore my points? Seriously? I added that bit about Staticor because it's spammable and effective. That's all.

 

All self-damage would serve to do is make the Tonkor mediocre.

Edited May 13, 2016 by (PS4)Tactless_Ninja

[(PSN)SupeBoss]

8 minutes ago, AEP8FlyBoy said:

What?

Adding a downside to a weapon with no downsides isn't a nerf. It's called balance.

When all other launchers have it, the fact that the Tonkor doesn't (not even going to use the grenade jump as an excuse anymore) is a crime in and of itself. It already bests all other launchers already, the Addition of self-damage will not be a nerf to the weapon in the slightest.

Just a worthwhile and much needed function, that should've been existent from the beginning. (At least after Parkour 2.0, where it voided the need for a launcher that could launch you.)

i think we both agree on the topic. We're just arguing semantics now

[AEP8FlyBoy]

5 minutes ago, NightElve said:

remove crits?? all those guys talking about nerfing weapons? it's so weird coming from players, i put 8 Forma on that weapon and enjoy it, if it's overpowered why dont you go use the other billion weapons in the game? #LeaveTonkorAlone!! , about being MR locked, let people play the game and have fun, we are not pursuing degrees in warframe i'm doing that in uni, inc crit damage for all i care , i want a fun weapon to use. if Tonkor is overpowered please go use other weapons!!!!!

8 Forma? Are you serious?

To get the most out of this weapon you only need 5-6 at max... what did you misuse a polarity on accident?

But I do agree with you, no blatant nerfs are needed, just the addition of something all other launchers have: Self-Damage
It already deals far more damage than any other weapon in the game, which is why it needs it so badly... because no other launcher is seeing any play-time because of it. Except for those dedicated players who can see past the Tonkor's cheesy nature and rely on a weapon that takes some legit skill to use.

[Aetherial_Enigma]

1 minute ago, DeadlyPeanutt said:

i agree with OP:  tonkor does NOT need a nerf.  tonkor does, however, need a prime version

 

 

Nice troll

[DeadlyPeanutt]

16 minutes ago, AEP8FlyBoy said:

What?

Adding a downside to a weapon with no downsides isn't a nerf. It's called balance.

When all other launchers have it, the fact that the Tonkor doesn't...the Addition of self-damage will not be a nerf to the weapon in the slightest.

you have GOT to be kidding us, and perhaps yourself.

adding self damage to tonkor would dump it in the same pile of unused weapons like penta and kulstar.    

adding self damage is not a nerf?  what a joke

Self damage in ALL launchers needs to be removed.  torrid and tonkor are great examples of very functional weapons that do NOT have self damage (and quanta, sonicor, staticor and pretty much every other weapon)

Edited May 13, 2016 by DeadlyPeanutt

[NightElve]

1 hour ago, Major_Phantom said:

Problem is every player under MR12 has 99% Tonkor usage cause everyone tells them it's sooo goood.

That's freaking horrible and should be subsided.

it's so.. good and ive been using it till MR 20 let people enjoy their weapons, we are not pursuing degrees in warframe, guys have been saying Forums are the true cancer of DE and now i find it very true, just because some few guys want a Tonkor nerf because its being widly used and it's accessible, and this group represents 2% of game population i suggest ignoring this few, if players have an issue with a weapon concerns will be raised in game, Forum guys remember warframe is a game(not a course being offered!!), get other weapons to play with if it's an issue for you finding out that other players enjoy one weapon type, then you can use the other billion weapons in the game

 

[AEP8FlyBoy]

3 minutes ago, (PS4)SupeBoss said:

i think we both agree on the topic. We're just arguing semantics now

Perhaps so... Thanks for adding your thoughts. :3

[DeadlyPeanutt]

4 minutes ago, Aetherial_Enigma said:

Nice troll

ffs, look at OP's post... how is responding to the first post in a thread trolling?

*facepalm*

[Stratego89]

No.

[AEP8FlyBoy]

8 minutes ago, DeadlyPeanutt said:

i agree with OP:  tonkor does NOT need a nerf.  tonkor does, however, need a prime version

In a PvE game, if you don't like a weapon, don't play it.   If you just can't STAND to see other players enjoying the weapon you don't like, don't allow it in your squad.    you have a choice. 

judging from the numbers of people using tonkor, i have a lot of company in believing that tonkor is fine as is.

tonkor is fun.  fun is the reason we play computer games.   

btw, SS, sonicor, staticor, torrid and jat kitty do NOT need nerfs either... just to clear that up.

 

1. You can't Prime a Grineer weapon. You can Wraith it however.

2. The only reason players enjoy the Tonkor is because of its easy nature, and while that is fine for some. It does nothing good for the game, or the other Launcher-type weapons.

3. Fun is only one of a slew of reasons people play games, some like a challenge, some like to be pushed... others like to cheese through all of the game's content with no worries because of a weapon that is breaking what a "Launcher-type" weapon should be.

4. I agree, none of these other weapons have any problems. The only issue with the Tonkor, is the fact that it possesses no risk at a great reward. Other launchers are shadowed by it in comparison to its insane Damage output as is.

Why it doesn't have self-damage now that we have Parkour 2.0... is beyond me.
But I've reiterated this message many times now.

Edited May 13, 2016 by AEP8FlyBoy

[Valkyrion]

1 hour ago, TheGuyverOne said:

Even if the Tonkor did a quarter of the damage, it would still be the best weapon in game lol

I presume you're tonkor user mostly?

[IceColdHawk]

1 minute ago, AEP8FlyBoy said:

But I've reiterated this message many times now.

Flyboy vs. The World

Who will win? Tune in next day!

[NightElve]

22 minutes ago, (XB1)EternalDrk Mako said:

either nerf it to be equivalent with other weapons or raise other weapons to be similarly scaled 

Nerf? i was told forums are the true cancer of warframe? it ain't a joke now, inc crit multiplier and chance for all i care, we want fun in the game, for all of you obsessed with balancing, why not ask DE to add a weapon nerf mod so that you can nerf your own weapon??! 90% of the players are completely against this idea, i dont know which elite group this is, that is know taking a major in Warframe, that they are more concerned with nerfing than having fun, go play with the other a billion weapons that DE has provided instead of ruining the game for others, you can also remove your crit mods from your Tonkor it might help nerf it

[Xekrin]

9 minutes ago, DeadlyPeanutt said:

judging from the numbers of people using tonkor, i have a lot of company in believing that tonkor is fine as is.

Not really true, plenty of tonkor users acknowledge the fact that it is pure cheese and way overpowered in its current state.  Fact is, its useful and gets the job done (overly so) and there is no reason not to use it.  Doesn't mean I would not be thrilled to see it be more balanced.

I could easily say "All tonkor users don't want it nerfed because they don't know how to use any other weapon.  If it gets self damage they will all just kill themselves because they won't know how to use it properly"

This would not be true either because that is speaking for everyone which no one should do.  Speak for yourself.

[(PSN)WINDMILEYNO]

The tonkor came befor parkour 2.0? That's crazy...I don't remember time flying like that...this gun is obviously never being touched if it's been this long, and this many complaints...

Other than that...why do people use it to jump now?

[Valkyrion]

People need to calm down, Tonkor doesn't need a nerf, and i think never will be. We just need to see less people using it.

HOW? Make it available to use atleast until MR12. The same as Syndicate primary weapons which i think is ideal because of them being god tier too.

[AEP8FlyBoy]

1 minute ago, NightElve said:

Nerf? i was told forums are the true cancer of warframe? it ain't a joke now, inc crit multiplier and chance for all i care, we want fun in the game, for all of you obsessed with balancing, why not ask DE to add a weapon nerf mod so that you can nerf your own weapon??! 90% of the players are completely against this idea, i dont know which elite group this is, that is know taking a major in Warframe, that they are more concerned with nerfing than having fun, go play with the other a billion weapons that DE has provided instead of ruining the game for others, you can also remove your crit mods from your Tonkor it might help nerf it

This post does nothing to add to the real problem, and you should be ashamed for behaving in this manner.

Tonkor is not fine. With the addition of Parkour 2.0, it basically invalidated the "grenade jump" mechanic of the Tonkor, which gave it nearly no self-damage whatsoever.

Now that people have had time to sit with their Tonkors in hand and come to rely on it, any change to it even if it's a good one, will be called a "Nerf" in their eyes.

Self-Damage is not a nerf.

It is a side-effect of using a Grenade Launcher, that can easily destroy rooms of enemies. No Risk and so much Reward that it seeps from your eyes. This is not the way it should be.

Damage does not need to be changed, however... The Tonkor needs Self-Damage for it to be fair to the other launchers, and to itself. Everyone who has come to rely on it because of its massive damage with no drawbacks will be saddened by this change sure. But it is for the sake of balance.

Super hard hitting critical stats, and base damage, with no risk to the user... doesn't that seem unfair to you? To the Poor Ol' Penta?