Tonkor Balancing (Nerf) discussion..

[Currilicious]

Just now, shyguyk said:

These wont happen, so DE has to choose a side.

It's not my problem if you believe that, you can just live with it.

[shyguyk]

7 minutes ago, Currilicious said:

It's not my problem if you believe that, you can just live with it.

Or we could do something and you use the penta, since its just as good anyway. But that's not your problem.

Edit: can we stop with the extra threads though? Everyone seems to gloss over that announcement by drew. There's already a 47 page thread about it in the proper section

Edited May 15, 2016 by shyguyk

[(PSN)AngelShur]

Ok, having this big boy being moved to the proper section now... thanks all that participated and kept the peace in this thread! :)

You guys rock!

[TheBrsrkr]

58 minutes ago, Currilicious said:

Your personal beef has nothing to do with my fun factor. 

My personal beef was mentioned once in this thread, where I used it to show why personal preference does not affect game balance or mechanics. 

 

59 minutes ago, Currilicious said:

 As long as you don't wish for an amicable solution that does not diminish anyone's experience, then you can live with it, for all I care.

I'd love to hear your ideas about how DE would pull that off when everyone has to play the exact same game with each other. 

[(PSN)Redemption_015]

Seriously it's a never ending cycle. A gigantic waste of time. There will always be a master weapon. It's just an utter waste of time. Lock the damn Tonkor, Soma Prime and Boltor Prime at MR15 or something. It's quite funny how the Soma Prime and Boltor Prime can melt whole crowds in seconds and yet no one ever asks for an 'adjustment' to them. 

[shyguyk]

1 hour ago, Currilicious said:

an amicable solution that does not diminish anyone's experience

 

These wont happen, so DE has to choose a side.

Someone actually did a side by side video of soma vs tonkor. The difference in ttk was gross.

[TheBrsrkr]

23 minutes ago, (PS4)Redemption_015 said:

Seriously it's a never ending cycle. A gigantic waste of time. There will always be a master weapon. 

What was it before the Boltor and Soma Prime, pray tell? There's only so many weapons that are overpowered. There will always be an objectively best weapon, but what makes it the best doesn't have to invalidate every other weapon. 

 

24 minutes ago, (PS4)Redemption_015 said:

 Lock the damn Tonkor, Soma Prime and Boltor Prime at MR15 or something. 

Kicking the bucket dull of crap down the road doesn't change the fact that there's a bucket of crap on the road. 

 

25 minutes ago, (PS4)Redemption_015 said:

. It's quite funny how the Soma Prime and Boltor Prime can melt whole crowds in seconds and yet no one ever asks for an 'adjustment' to them. 

How long have you been here? There have been hundreds of complaints about those weapons, but The Tonkor and weapons like it such as the S. Simulor relegate them to mid tier. Read that again. One weapon outplays the 2 past overpowered weapons by itself. This is a problem. 

[(PSN)Redemption_015]

3 minutes ago, TheBrsrkr said:

What was it before the Boltor and Soma Prime, pray tell? There's only so many weapons that are overpowered. There will always be an objectively best weapon, but what makes it the best doesn't have to invalidate every other weapon. 

The Acrid, Supra, Brakk, Flux Rifle were all fantastic weapons. They got the nerf bat and other rose in their place. It'll happen again and again and again.

 

3 minutes ago, TheBrsrkr said:

Kicking the bucket dull of crap down the road doesn't change the fact that there's a bucket of crap on the road. 

My, you are intent on being as annoying as possible. Kicking the 'bucket of crap' as you put it, down the road means that it has justification for being a 'bucket of crap', because then only people who grind MR can get it, thus making it a worthwhile reward.

 

3 minutes ago, TheBrsrkr said:

How long have you been here? There have been hundreds of complaints about those weapons, but The Tonkor and weapons like it such as the S. Simulor relegate them to mid tier. Read that again. One weapon outplays the 2 past overpowered weapons by itself. This is a problem. 

Been here since the beginning my friend, you should know, we encountered each other quite a while back under different circumstances. I have seen only two anti-Bolor/Soma threads in my time, but hey maybe that's just my experience. Soma and Bolor Prime have not been kicked down to mid-tier, people like you only think that. They are just as good as they were before. I've got a lot more kills on my Bolor than on my Simulor because I hate the way its mechanics work and when I encounter a player who has a Simulor I simply either go solo, or go into a separate room because I'm not lazy. Honestly Warframe is the only PvE game I know that has this much whining about nothing.

[TheBrsrkr]

1 hour ago, (PS4)Redemption_015 said:

The Acrid, Supra, Brakk, Flux Rifle were all fantastic weapons. They got the nerf bat and other rose in their place. It'll happen again and again and again.

By the nerf bat you mean an entirely new damage system? The Acrid was plain broken, the Supra got buffed the other day, the Brakk is still a great shotgun secondary and the Flux Rifle I done know about. If they got nerfed by creating Damage 2.0,then you could say that everything else got buffed. 

 

1 hour ago, (PS4)Redemption_015 said:

My, you are intent on being as annoying as possible. Kicking the 'bucket of crap' as you put it, down the road means that it has justification for being a 'bucket of crap', because then only people who grind MR can get it, thus making it a worthwhile reward.

It can be a worthwhile weapon without being stupidly overpowered. Moving the issue around isn't solving the issue at all. It's almost like a weapon can be both fun and balanced at the same time. Who would have thought? 

 

1 hour ago, (PS4)Redemption_015 said:

Been here since the beginning my friend, you should know, we encountered each other quite a while back under different circumstances. I have seen only two anti-Bolor/Soma threads in my time, but hey maybe that's just my experience. 

If you've only seen two nerf threads for those two, either you haven't been paying attention or you don't spend much time in the weapon feedback section where this thread belongs. With the other 4. I joined just before  U15 and I've seen a lot of them, and I'm sure they existed before that. 

 

1 hour ago, (PS4)Redemption_015 said:

. Soma and Bolor Prime have not been kicked down to mid-tier, people like you only think that. 

They haven't been nerfed, everything else has moved on without them. The S. Simulor, September. Penta, S. Tigris, Vay Hek, Tonkor and many others beat them out in Manny more aspects these days,and the content has changed to suit them, not the Soma or Boltor Prime. There still as overpowered as ever, but they're not the most overpowered anymore, and nerfing them will not move the power curve at all. 

 

1 hour ago, (PS4)Redemption_015 said:

. I've got a lot more kills on my Bolor than on my Simulor because I hate the way its mechanics work 

This is the very definition of personal preference. 

 

1 hour ago, (PS4)Redemption_015 said:

 when I encounter a player who has a Simulor I simply either go solo, or go into a separate room because I

'm not lazy. 

When having a problem with being kicked out or left nothing to do of a multiplayer game for their choice of weapon is viewed as being lazy, you know there's a problem with the game. 

[Chipputer]

I'm not exactly sure why the Rakta Cernos would make that list of overpowered weapons. It's not like the Dread is significantly worse than it and people aren't asking for that to be nerfed.

[TheBrsrkr]

10 minutes ago, Chipputer said:

I'm not exactly sure why the Rakta Cernos would make that list of overpowered weapons. 

I was wondering that myself. 

[DeadlyPeanutt]

On 5/14/2016 at 4:09 PM, Currilicious said:

And, I think how others derive fun from their games is none of your business. Or mine for that matter. I cannot pretend to know what's best for other people.

the nerf brigade should take note ^

god forbid that this weapon actually did get nerfed, then they'd have to pick another weapon to complain about.   endless cycle

 

[Currilicious]

9 hours ago, TheBrsrkr said:

My personal beef was mentioned once in this thread, where I used it to show why personal preference does not affect game balance or mechanics. 

 

I'd love to hear your ideas about how DE would pull that off when everyone has to play the exact same game with each other. 

Well if you don't like to play with other people that much, you can always play solo.

[Currilicious]

8 hours ago, shyguyk said:

These wont happen, so DE has to choose a side.

Someone actually did a side by side video of soma vs tonkor. The difference in ttk was gross.

Choose a side that does not impact my fun factor, sure I'm on board.

Otherwise, no thanks.

[Magneu]

10 hours ago, (PS4)Redemption_015 said:

Seriously it's a never ending cycle. A gigantic waste of time. There will always be a master weapon. It's just an utter waste of time. Lock the damn Tonkor, Soma Prime and Boltor Prime at MR15 or something. It's quite funny how the Soma Prime and Boltor Prime can melt whole crowds in seconds and yet no one ever asks for an 'adjustment' to them. 

FFS.

I have picture evidence proving the Tonkor can hit 97% of the peak damage of the highest damage sniper in the game (Rubico) with relative consistency.

There will always be a strongest weapon, by a couple percentage points. It shouldn't be strongest by such a massive margin as now.

Also, "memes" do nothing to give you credentials, just FYI.

[.Fire_Fly.]

its an explosive weapon that shoots a grenade, normally a single grenade can blow a house up, pretty sure its suppose to be over powered.

[TheBrsrkr]

4 hours ago, Currilicious said:

Well if you don't like to play with other people that much, you can always play solo.

Did you forget what you posted? 

14 hours ago, Currilicious said:

 an amicable solution that does not diminish anyone's experience, 

Playing solo in a multiplayer game when you don't want to negatively affects your game experience. It is impossible to find a solution where nobody gets affected

If it is possible, I'm sure DE would like to hear it. 

[(PSN)Redemption_015]

12 hours ago, TheBrsrkr said:

By the nerf bat you mean an entirely new damage system? The Acrid was plain broken, the Supra got buffed the other day, the Brakk is still a great shotgun secondary and the Flux Rifle I done know about. If they got nerfed by creating Damage 2.0,then you could say that everything else got buffed. 

"The Acrid was plain broken". That is the very definition of personal opinion. Everything else did get buffed and look where we are now; asking for more nerfs to said buffs. Something else gets nerfed, something else gets buffed. A continuous waste of time.

 

12 hours ago, TheBrsrkr said:

It can be a worthwhile weapon without being stupidly overpowered. Moving the issue around isn't solving the issue at all. It's almost like a weapon can be both fun and balanced at the same time. Who would have thought? 

The Tonkor isn't the ultimate weapon of MD. It has drawbacks on any other frame apart from a Jetstream Zehpyr. The two round mag coupled with the facts that you can't manually detonate the grenades and have a good chance of missing the target counts as balance in my book. The trajectory is awful IMO, which is why I never use grenade launchers. You say that moving the issue around isn't a solution and yet you are doing just that by asking for an adjustment. The mantle of 'OP' will always be passed to something else. The issue will never be solved unless DE sit down, take a deep breath and put their full attention on the current system.

The Tonkor is truly OP in the hands of a Zephyr. If the grenades exploded on impact by default, I might actually agree with you.

 

12 hours ago, TheBrsrkr said:

If you've only seen two nerf threads for those two, either you haven't been paying attention or you don't spend much time in the weapon feedback section where this thread belongs. With the other 4. I joined just before  U15 and I've seen a lot of them, and I'm sure they existed before that. 

You're right I don't spend much time in the feedback section because I generally don't care about it. But the fact still remains that the Boltor and Soma Prime are the king of rifles and they have never been changed. 

 

12 hours ago, TheBrsrkr said:

They haven't been nerfed, everything else has moved on without them. The S. Simulor, September. Penta, S. Tigris, Vay Hek, Tonkor and many others beat them out in Many more aspects these days,and the content has changed to suit them, not the Soma or Boltor Prime. There still as overpowered as ever, but they're not the most overpowered anymore, and nerfing them will not move the power curve at all.

And nerfing the listed weapons will simply make people fall back on the Soma and Boltor Prime until a new powerful weapon comes out. Round and round we go in a never ending cycle of nerf and buff. It's pointless and stupid. I have no doubt I'll see you in six months time, whining about something else that you view as 'too OP'. Also where on earth did you get the notion that the game had changed to suit that small group of weapons you listed?  

 

12 hours ago, TheBrsrkr said:

This is the very definition of personal preference. 

Your point? You're shouting out your personal preference of the Tonkor getting a nerf so it can't be used to out-damage you anymore. 

 

12 hours ago, TheBrsrkr said:

When having a problem with being kicked out or left nothing to do of a multiplayer game for their choice of weapon is viewed as being lazy, you know there's a problem with the game. 

What do you mean by 'kicked out'? No one is kicking you out at all. I'm not calling you lazy for your choice of weapon, I'm calling you lazy simply because you can't be asked to move into a separate room of enemies away from other players. What exactly do you wish to gain out of multiplayer if all you do is whine about other players? You don't like how other players are killing more enemies than you, go into a different room maybe or actually put effort into out-damaging them. It's pretty fun to do if you actually put effort into it. This is a PvE game. COD has less whinging than this.

 

12 hours ago, Chipputer said:

I'm not exactly sure why the Rakta Cernos would make that list of overpowered weapons. It's not like the Dread is significantly worse than it and people aren't asking for that to be nerfed.

The Viral proc and damage put on the same level as the Dread, maybe even a little higher IMO anyway.

 

4 hours ago, Magneu said:

FFS.

I have picture evidence proving the Tonkor can hit 97% of the peak damage of the highest damage sniper in the game (Rubico) with relative consistency.

There will always be a strongest weapon, by a couple percentage points. It shouldn't be strongest by such a massive margin as now.

Also, "memes" do nothing to give you credentials, just FYI.

Good for you that you have picture evidence and I'm supposed to care why? Also your opinion that 'It shouldn't be strongest by such a massive margin' is just that; your opinion.

FYI, starting your post with an acronym of a rude phrase also gives you zero credentials. Just saying.

Edited May 16, 2016 by (PS4)Redemption_015

[NightElve]

On 5/14/2016 at 7:04 PM, (PS4)xKAIOWAx said:

Is evident how this weapon and synoid simulor disturb the game 

is a Seeker a mastery 9???!!!! and i'm correct if i say Synoid simulor is a mastery 12 locked weapon?? you haven't even used the weapon and you are here, commenting? Troll or what?? your are not eligible to give crucial input here sorry, and MR 15-20 , if they make nerf or anti-nerf arguments have reasons, they've used 80% of the weapons they are the saturation limit, so.. please stop trolling here.

[NightElve]

On 5/14/2016 at 7:58 PM, TheBrsrkr said:

Nerfs benefit the health of the game, not individual players. 

your are waframe's doctor now? Lol! not my Health, speak for yourself, stop fuelling personal interests, by including the majority.

[(PSN)Redemption_015]

19 minutes ago, NightElve said:

is a Seeker a mastery 9???!!!! and i'm correct if i say Synoid simulor is a mastery 12 locked weapon?? you haven't even used the weapon and you are here, commenting? Troll or what?? your are not eligible to give crucial input here sorry, and MR 15-20 , if they make nerf or anti-nerf arguments have reasons, they've used 80% of the weapons they are the saturation limit, so.. please stop trolling here.

Elitist much. Everyone can comment. It's not MR restricted, don't be a fool.

[Chipputer]

20 minutes ago, NightElve said:

stop fuelling personal interests, by including the majority

Balance discussions help the game. Painting nerfs in a negative connotation does not.

Perhaps they could have worded that phrase a bit better.

[(PSN)Redemption_015]

2 minutes ago, Chipputer said:

Balance discussions help the game. Painting nerfs in a negative connotation does not.

Perhaps they could have worded that phrase a bit better.

The problem is with this game is that the line between 'Balance' and 'Nerf' is practically non-existent.

[Chipputer]

2 minutes ago, (PS4)Redemption_015 said:

The problem is with this game is that the line between 'Balance' and 'Nerf' is practically non-existent.

Nerfing is inherent in the concept of balancing, just like buffing. The problem is that the second someone says "nerf" everyone loses their collective minds because they only see it for its negative connotation and not the overall big picture, as your post here makes evident.

I'm not calling you stupid, either. The fact that the gaming community has placed such a heavy taboo on the word is a problem that didn't start with you or anyone else on this forum.

[EvilChaosKnight]

So how is adding self-damage in its current incarnation going to be "fun"? Same as Synoid Gammacor ammo consumption nerf. Yea, sure, go kill the fun factor instead of trying to balance things out. Sure.

In fact how about we remove self-damage on other launchers or have it capped and then start balancing from there? I'd love to use other launchers but they all have a nasty habit of being pretty user-unfriendly. In fact I am yet to see any single less user-friendly weapon in my like... 20 years of gaming(?) than WF's launcher class. Fatman in Fallout 3/4 comes a close 2nd but at least these games offer a ton of open space to use such things. Warframe? More like Corridorframe.

I get it, you want Tonkor gone, so we'll go with Sancti Tigris. Or Synoid Simulor. Nerf these? Hello Boltor Pr again! Nice to see you after all this time. So what are you trying to achieve exactly besides making people's formas go waste?