Tonkor Balancing (Nerf) discussion..

[shyguyk]

1 minute ago, (PS4)Redemption_015 said:

No he likes to play multiplayer, but hates that people use weapons he doesn't like. That is the issue.

I'd say hate the effect the weapon has on his play rather than the people using it. It's making it redundant and less purposeful

[Currilicious]

3 minutes ago, TheBrsrkr said:

Come up with something new to say, something that wasn't in the comment you made just before, or STOP COMMENTING. 

Something new.

There, happy now?

Edited May 16, 2016 by Currilicious

[TheBrsrkr]

6 minutes ago, (PS4)Redemption_015 said:

No he likes to play multiplayer, but hates that people use weapons he doesn't like. That is the issue.

It's pretty much like he likes multiplayer, but the Tonkor negatively affects his and manymultiplayer experience with its various mechanicswhile also negatively affecting many other aspects of the game previously listed. 

 

It's almost like you're deliberately creating a strawman because you have no argument against it besides personal preference, which has no effect on game balance or mechanics. 

[Currilicious]

17 minutes ago, TheBrsrkr said:

It's pretty much like he likes multiplayer, but the Tonkor negatively affects his and manymultiplayer experience with its various mechanicswhile also negatively affecting many other aspects of the game previously listed. 

 

It's almost like you're deliberately creating a strawman because you have no argument against it besides personal preference, which has no effect on game balance or mechanics. 

In his defense, he would need to be a martyr, worthy of a sainthood, to agree with your campaign taking something from him because you fancy your interests over his. Now, if your strawman can do that, then we can all agree the Turing test should be shelved once and for all. And, that creature of yours, made of straw, deserves a Nobel peace prize.

Edited May 16, 2016 by Currilicious

[(PSN)I_AM_FIRED_UP]

nope disagree with everything like a narrow minded. put 4 or 6 forma on it I forgot. it is fun and I don't know why people complain about tonkor, if you don't like it don't use it

[(PSN)Redemption_015]

31 minutes ago, TheBrsrkr said:

It's pretty much like he likes multiplayer, but the Tonkor negatively affects his and manymultiplayer experience with its various mechanicswhile also negatively affecting many other aspects of the game previously listed. 

 

It's almost like you're deliberately creating a strawman because you have no argument against it besides personal preference, which has no effect on game balance or mechanics. 

There we go. So it does affect you personally. There is no argument, you're just bitter. All those issues you previously listed are just the veil you hide your true feelings behind.

Your straw man is bigger than any other in this thread.

Edited May 16, 2016 by (PS4)Redemption_015

[TheBrsrkr]

14 minutes ago, Currilicious said:

In his defense, he would need to be a martyr, worthy of a sainthood, to agree with your campaign taking something from him because you fancy your interests over his. 

Or he could bother reading the thread. 

 

15 minutes ago, Currilicious said:

. Now, if your strawman can do that, then we can all agree the Turing test should be shelved once and for all. 

A strawman requires an argument in the first place to misrepresent. "He hates thingd other people use" is not an argument. 

 

17 minutes ago, Currilicious said:

And, that creature of yours, made of straw, deserves a Nobel peace prize.

Let's pretend for a moment that this makes any sense at all. Is this feedback? 

[shyguyk]

3 minutes ago, (PS4)I_AM_FIRED_UP said:

nope disagree with everything like a narrow minded. put 4 or 6 forma on it I forgot. it is fun and I don't know why people complain about tonkor, if you don't like it don't use it

 

28 minutes ago, TheBrsrkr said:

 the Tonkor negatively affects his and many [others'] multiplayer experience with its various mechanics while also negatively affecting many other aspects of the game previously listed. [Such as steamrolling high levels while everything else has a bit of a struggle, and by doing that in a large aoe, making the other players and their guns redundant*]

Brackets = my own words.

* Not in all situations. Some people carry bubble busting guns to keep the tonkor player trucking. That's OK. that's teamwork. But in most situations, this is not what the other squad members intend, so they get to shoot little until a magic bubble arrives.

[(PSN)Redemption_015]

Just now, TheBrsrkr said:

A strawman requires an argument in the first place to misrepresent. "He hates thingd other people use" is not an argument. 

Neither is your argument which is based totally on personal opinion.

[(PSN)I_AM_FIRED_UP]

1 minute ago, shyguyk said:

 

Brackets = my own words.

* Not in all situations. Some people carry bubble busting guns to keep the tonkor player trucking. That's OK. that's teamwork. But in most situations, this is not what the other squad members intend, so they get to shoot little until a magic bubble arrives.

I can see that but ahhh tonkor nerf. The most primary and op primary for me. Well imo people should be happy because players like us do all the work and killing for them XD

Edited May 16, 2016 by (PS4)I_AM_FIRED_UP

[Chipputer]

2 minutes ago, (PS4)I_AM_FIRED_UP said:

Well imo people should be happy because players like us do all the work and killing for them XD

I didn't ask you to single handedly make it impossible for me to participate with my bow so why should I thank you? Now I have to focus on the other end of the room where less enemies are at, which you'll likely turn around and shoot at since the whole front area is now devastated by you simply shooting once.

You do all the killing but you don't do all the work.

[sinhata]

Let's just nerf all the weapons and make everyone happy.  If you don't like it, don't use it.  You still get exp from other players. 

[(PSN)I_AM_FIRED_UP]

1 minute ago, Chipputer said:

I didn't ask you to single handedly make it impossible for me to participate with my bow so why should I thank you? Now I have to focus on the other end of the room where less enemies are at, which you'll likely turn around and shoot at since the whole front area is now devastated by you simply shooting once.

You do all the killing but you don't do all the work.

Well out of ideas to fight back. Brb with ideas

[----Fenrir----]

The problem with nerfing the Tonkor is that it will simply lead to more people using the Synoid Simulor. Because that is the other easy to use high damage AoE weapon with no self damage. Also the Tonkor currently has a band-aid function. It's basically the only weapon with which a low MR player lacking a lot of mods has a chance to deal decent damage against Sortie level enemies.

 

[TheLexiConArtist]

I am Tonkor Thread Veteran.

Beware, I live.

 

Now, Brsrkr has been doing an excellent job keeping up here without me, I've been away for the weekend after all, but now I'm here and there's more Tonkor thread in my radar.

So, let's do this.

 

9 minutes ago, sinhata said:

Let's just nerf all the weapons and make everyone happy.  If you don't like it, don't use it.  You still get exp from other players. 

• I have weapons, companion and a warframe at rank 30.
• These items do not have any Focus Lenses and/or my Focus has been capped for the day.

What good is your second hand affinity to me then?

"Don't like it, don't use it" only applies if no external sources can freely employ the undesirable entity.

3 minutes ago, ----Fenrir---- said:

The problem with nerfing the Tonkor is that it will simply lead to more people using the Synoid Simulor. Because that is the other easy to use high damage AoE weapon with no self damage. Also the Tonkor currently has a band-aid function. It's basically the only weapon with which a low MR player lacking a lot of mods has a chance to deal decent damage against Sortie level enemies.

Yes, and the SySim is in the same boat as the Tonkor - except it sacrifices the upper-limit on damage for an even better AOE radius and absolute freedom to never not be shooting, with the greater replenishment and commonality of the Rifle Ammo it uses. Nobody here pretends it's not also on the radar for fixing, just as we didn't in our main thread - but two wrongs don't make a right; two anomalous power outliers doesn't make a standard.

 

A low-MR player with a lack of mods shouldn't be freely dealing decent damage against Sortie level enemies. That's all we have for an 'Endgame' alongside raids. The fact that they can do this with the Tonkor and poor mods in fact proves how broken the Tonkor is, when good mods in 95% of other weapons can't compete.

 

Edited May 16, 2016 by EDYinnit

[Nidaria]

On 5/13/2016 at 0:04 PM, clemza said:

Self damage ? On a tonkor ? It would ruin the weapon since your using it to jump ...

I've never seen anyone use the Tonkor's jumping mechanic to actually jump; just run Draco online and you'll see (or rather, won't see).

Edit: It's not even needed due to Parkour 2.0, it'd be the same reason why Excalibur had Super Jump removed.

Edited May 16, 2016 by Roominashum

[TheBrsrkr]

29 minutes ago, (PS4)Redemption_015 said:

There we go. So it does affect you personally. There is no argument, you're just bitter. L

Wow, such brilliance! The Tonkor, the weapon in a game I play, affects me when I play the game that it's in! How long did it take for you to figure that out? Too bad you're forgetting the most important part of reading comprehension ; finishing what you've started reading! I know you haven't, since this part:

1 hour ago, TheBrsrkr said:

you have no argument against it besides personal preference, which has no effect on game balance or mechanics. 

Was right there after what I've said. You've simply ignored the rest of what I said to focus on the one part of the comment that applies to literally everyone in the game. 

 

29 minutes ago, (PS4)Redemption_015 said:

. All those issues you previously listed are just the veil you hide your true feelings behind.

Oh, so it turns out you CAN read, but you're just dishonest. And apparently you don't get yet that how I or anyone else feels doesn't matter, because what happens with game mechanics and balance happens whether you like it or not. But hey, whatever gives you an excuse to ignore all the points you have no argument against, right? 

 

29 minutes ago, (PS4)Redemption_015 said:

Your straw man is bigger than any other in this thread.

If you'd like to tell someone they're making a strawman, first you need to have an argument, then you have to outline what part of the argument they twisted to suit them. Otherwise it looks like you're just saying "no YOU made a strawman! !!" which isn't an argument and doesn't change that your post is in fact a strawman. 

 

26 minutes ago, (PS4)Redemption_015 said:

Neither is your argument which is based totally on personal opinion.

Tell me more about how the power curve, the Tonkor doing more or at least comparable damage to the highest damaging single target weaponry, in the largest radius of any launcher, with twice the Ammo of any launcher, the fastest reload, an aim guide, the ability and power to clear rooms by itself, the content it invalidates by wiping out with relative ease and effect it has on public games being so sever other players, including you by your own admission, have to leave the room or the game that the Tonkor player is in to actually play the game is my own personal opinion. I don't think you know what personal opinion means. 

[Green-Bean]

On 5/13/2016 at 3:02 PM, clemza said:

Just buff the other weapons.

Just buff the other (253 according to the Warframe wiki) weapons. 

 

Sounds easy enough.

[(XBOX)TheMadCash]

I don't think it need to be balanced. Those of you saying "Its too easy to use". What? Your serious? So its suppose to be hard? So let's just Nerf all the end game weapons then. Let's Nerf em all since they all are "easy to use". I'm sorry but the whole "Nerf the tonkor. Its easy to use" isn't really a tough argument nor a valid one to get it balanced. Just saying. 

[TheLexiConArtist]

2 minutes ago, (XB1)Cash201293 said:

I don't think it need to be balanced. Those of you saying "Its too easy to use". What? Your serious? So its suppose to be hard? So let's just Nerf all the end game weapons then. Let's Nerf em all since they all are "easy to use". I'm sorry but the whole "Nerf the tonkor. Its easy to use" isn't really a tough argument nor a valid one to get it balanced. Just saying. 

How about "it has inadequate downsides, most of which are also inherently compensated in their own separate ways anyway, to offset the largest reward payoff in Warframe weaponry"?

We have a not quite so rapidly sensationalism-exploded thread where we've gone over the actual arguments, counter-arguments and counter-counter-arguments et cetera in great detail.

[Kotsender_Quasimir]

@ curridiculous: pretty please stop demonizing people thinking differently about the bigger picture of this game as "hatemongers". the only person in this thread exclusively sporting an obviously emotionally driven discourse is you, ironically. this discussion is about reason and not personal bitterness. noone wants to take your toy away just out of pure malevolence. why would you even think that. jesus.

Edited May 17, 2016 by Kotsender_Quasimir

[oceano4]

I too, think that the Tonkor needs toning down a tad.

 

But lets not forget some weapons that have been without love for a LONG time.

Please guys, help a Tenno out and keep this topic alive. <3

[DeadlyPeanutt]

1 hour ago, EDYinnit said:

A low-MR player with a lack of mods shouldn't be freely dealing decent damage against Sortie level enemies. That's all we have for an 'Endgame' alongside raids. The fact that they can do this with the Tonkor and poor mods in fact proves how broken the Tonkor is, when good mods in 95% of other weapons can't compete.

why shouldn't all players have access to effective and fun weapons?   i don't agree with that statement. 

a player who is new to WF but has much experience in other shooters should be able to have weapons to enjoy late game content as soon as possible.  

your view is somewhat elitist and bad for the game, wadr

tonkor is not broken; it's a fun and effective weapons that many, MANY players enjoy

[DeadlyPeanutt]

1 hour ago, ----Fenrir---- said:

The problem with nerfing the Tonkor is that it will simply lead to more people using the Synoid Simulor. Because that is the other easy to use high damage AoE weapon with no self damage. Also the Tonkor currently has a band-aid function. It's basically the only weapon with which a low MR player lacking a lot of mods has a chance to deal decent damage against Sortie level enemies.

 

lol, your point is well taken.

if the regular posters in the 'nerf tonkor' thread barrage get their wish and tonkor is nerfed, SS will be the next on their list for a massive number of nerf threads... then, sonicor, staticor, jat kitty, the list goes on. 

perhaps the REAL problem is that these folks are bored with WF and amuse themselves by telling other players what weapons are bad for them, how they should play, what missions they should play (remembering all of the nerf draco threads). 

[shyguyk]

These threads seem to be less effective as a discussion due to the inability for both sides to converse civilly.

But it's a great example of ingroup bias for anybody taking a psychology course.