Tonkor Balancing (Nerf) discussion..

[Phatose]

It is kind of silly to worry about rocket jumping when you can bullet jump.

[DeadlyPeanutt]

1 minute ago, AEP8FlyBoy said:

snip--

1. this is a game: game dev can do what they want.

2. so if i enjoy tonkor, i should play it.   if you DON'T enjoy tonkor, you should not play it.  end of discussion. 

3. fun is the reason most people play most games.  If you want a challenge, get away from the computer and find something challenging to do. 

4.  that's absurd.  torrid has the highest damage output in the game, far outstripping tonkor, and it has absolutely no self damage.  staticor, sonicor, quanta have huge damage and/or 100% status effects and no self damage. 

 self damage is pretty absurd in any weapon in WF. how is it that i can toss live penta grenades at a team mate and do no damage, but if they bounce back at me, i die?

[NightElve]

13 minutes ago, AEP8FlyBoy said:

8 Forma? Are you serious?

To get the most out of this weapon you only need 5-6 at max... what did you misuse a polarity on accident?

But I do agree with you, no blatant nerfs are needed, just the addition of something all other launchers have: Self-Damage
It already deals far more damage than any other weapon in the game, which is why it needs it so badly... because no other launcher is seeing any play-time because of it. Except for those dedicated players who can see past the Tonkor's cheesy nature and rely on a weapon that takes some legit skill to use.

dedicated, obsessed, addicted, warframe majors call it what you may but for all i know majority of us play the game for fun,this minority people asking for nerfs are aactually on the road of new obsession asking DE how to balance weapons and stuff, there has been frustration about weapons getting nerfed by DE and i was told it was the forums responsible for this, but i swear i didnt believe so, this posts are made my obsessed players who have gone past the fun of playing warframe, because no one in game supports this

[Xekrin]

4 minutes ago, Valkyrion said:

People need to calm down, Tonkor doesn't need a nerf, and i think never will be. We just need to see less people using it.

You might need to re-watch the devstream, for your convenience.

 

[DeadlyPeanutt]

2 minutes ago, AEP8FlyBoy said:

Self-Damage is not a nerf.

It is a side-effect of using a Grenade Launcher, that can easily destroy rooms of enemies. No Risk and so much Reward that it seeps from your eyes. This is not the way it should be.

adding self damage is not a nerf? how absurd!

add self damage to torrid, which has a higher base damage than tonkor... or sonicor which has no self damage even when you ragdoll bots from point blank range, or quanta, or SS, or... well all weapons.  How about tossing kultar bombs at a teammate and doing no damage? 

do you recommend FF damage also? it seems based on your argument that team mates should die also in a huge explosion. 

[NightElve]

2 minutes ago, DeadlyPeanutt said:

1. this is a game: game dev can do what they want.

2. so if i enjoy tonkor, i should play it.   if you DON'T enjoy tonkor, you should not play it.  end of discussion. 

3. fun is the reason most people play most games.  If you want a challenge, get away from the computer and find something challenging to do. 

4.  that's absurd.  torrid has the highest damage output in the game, far outstripping tonkor, and it has absolutely no self damage.  staticor, sonicor, quanta have huge damage and/or 100% status effects and no self damage. 

 self damage is pretty absurd in any weapon in WF. how is it that i can toss live penta grenades at a team mate and do no damage, but if they bounce back at me, i die?

exactly!! most guys who post here have no or lost all fun playing this game and are just  seeking challenges, to the extent they want to control this game, some youtube pages i wont name, have posted frustrations about the Forums not representing the true players interests

[(PSN)SupeBoss]

I prefer the middle ground. Add self damage to all launchers.
Except - fatal shots will leave you with 2 HP. If you're at or below 2HP, you get downed.

[AEP8FlyBoy]

35 minutes ago, DeadlyPeanutt said:

1. this is a game: game dev can do what they want.

2. so if i enjoy tonkor, i should play it.   if you DON'T enjoy tonkor, you should not play it.  end of discussion. 

3. fun is the reason most people play most games.  If you want a challenge, get away from the computer and find something challenging to do. 

4.  that's absurd.  torrid has the highest damage output in the game, far outstripping tonkor, and it has absolutely no self damage.  staticor, sonicor, quanta have huge damage and/or 100% status effects and no self damage. 

 self damage is pretty absurd in any weapon in WF. how is it that i can toss live penta grenades at a team mate and do no damage, but if they bounce back at me, i die?

You are missing the point.

Friendly Fire does not exist, which is what you're describing (Unless someone is Rad Proc'd). The main issue is, is that when used directly, the Tonkor with it's massive stats and damage have no risk to the user whatsoever, which is why it is becoming more and more used today.

Self-Damage is a Risk invoked to a Weapon that can yield a great reward, to those who are capable of wielding them correctly. Think of it this way, if your Mother gave you a grenade launcher, what would be your first thought about it. (Lotus, in this case.)

"Can I blow up enemies with it?" asks the still developing Tenno. "You sure can." replies the Lotus.

"What happens if I shoot it at my feet?"

*The Lotus quickly returns the launcher to the market. To be given to the child when he/she is ready.*

Do you see my point? Self-Damage exists for a reason, it is to instill a sense of immediate danger in a weapon that can yield a great amount of Reward. The Tonkor currently doesn't possess it, which is why it is even a topic of discussion now.

The Tonkor can be fun still after a self-damage change... I have fun blowing myself out of the sky with my Kulstar, and it makes it fun to use, because I actually have to use a bit of brain power to keep myself from dying abruptly.

Edited May 13, 2016 by AEP8FlyBoy

[TheGuyver]

14 minutes ago, Valkyrion said:

I presume you're tonkor user mostly?

Not really no, the few times I do use it are with my jet stream zephyr for a quick t3/4 ext run.

[DeadlyPeanutt]

1 minute ago, AEP8FlyBoy said:

Do you see my point? Self-Damage exists for a reason, it is to instill a sense of immediate danger in a weapon that can yield a great amount of Reward. The Tonkor currently doesn't possess it, which is why it is even a topic of discussion now.

I have fun blowing myself out of the sky with my Kulstar, and it makes it fun to use, because I actually have to use a bit of brain power to keep myself from dying abruptly.

pretty thin argument, with due respect

killing yourself with a weapon is fun, when you're playing a mob bot shooter where dozens of bots rush into your face every mission.   

you have an interesting concept of fun (which is most probably NOT shared by the vast majority of players)

[Armadaius]

Sorry to say but self damage would actually ruin the weapon.

There are no downside to tonkor? ha you have never real use tonkor then there alot

- grenades have a lot of bounce while having with a heavy arc compare to other launchers

- small clip of all launchers and 2nd smallest in all primaries according to wiki

- harder to control detonation which mean it if you miss you either wait till it detonates or trigger it yourself by running on grenade, while ogris just require a area to hit and penta you tell it when to detonate

- the hit and miss lol this is the only launcher you can litterally miss with because it bounces between their legs (i have lost count how many times that has happen now =.=)

- You pretty much have to Captain America you grenades to actually hit something proper especially nullies

The selling point of the weapon IS rocket jump actually as DE had original plan to add self damage cause low self damage was actually a glitch but people actually loved the rocket jump so DE left it as is. (cant remember where but you can find it in post near tonkor release date)

And one more ting actually a proper rocket jump is a often time better than bullet jump ijs,  move zephyr you blocking my air space

[AEP8FlyBoy]

6 minutes ago, NightElve said:

dedicated, obsessed, addicted, warframe majors call it what you may but for all i know majority of us play the game for fun,this minority people asking for nerfs are aactually on the road of new obsession asking DE how to balance weapons and stuff, there has been frustration about weapons getting nerfed by DE and i was told it was the forums responsible for this, but i swear i didnt believe so, this posts are made my obsessed players who have gone past the fun of playing warframe, because no one in game supports this

Supports what? I support the game being fun but balanced for all involved. You just sound like a player who has come to rely on their Tonkor too much.

The Tonkor doesn't need a nerf... I keep on saying that. It just needs self-damage.

Self-Damage on a grenade launcher, should always be a thing. Even on a launcher with a mechanic that should've been re-thought long ago. Nobody is calling for direct nerfs to anything, but the community has become to set-in-stone with their ways, and so many have come to rely on the Tonkor for what it is.

A super heavy-hitting, no risk involved, room clearing machine... And this is the real problem. Not the Tonkor's already insane damage.

[(PSN)Tactless_Ninja]

Tonkor does not function the same as other launchers. Again, those bank shots are incredibly random. You can't say it's just like every other launcher when they ALL have some sort of safeguard to compliment the self-damage. Giving Tonkor self-damage and nothing else will ruin it.

[clemza]

42 minutes ago, Xekrin said:

This is your defense? Seriously? Red crit aoe launcher and it will be ruined because "I need it to  jump!"

This matter really is simple, all launchers (including castanas) should have some self damage but THAT needs nerfed on all others, the self damage on tonkor needs buffed to match.

It should be at most 25% health or 25% damage whichever is more for every self damage weapon.  Enough to hurt but not enough to ruin your day.  Tonkor can still be used to jump just fine.

Also was this thread really needed? the 2,000 reply tonkor thread not enough?

Defense ? What do you mean ? I like to jump with the tonkor is that a problem for you ? or you will say "huuh bru why don't you bullet jump" maybe ? ...

Can't i just give my opinion about people asking for self-damages on the weapon ?

Why the tonkor should self-damages you, since it push you away from the explosion and so from the explosion damages (it does self damages you by the way, but the amount is like nothing).

Of course it need a nerf, but i would prefer a damages / aoe range nerf, because yeah i like to have weapons that are differents than others ...

Edited May 13, 2016 by clemza

[NightElve]

18 minutes ago, AEP8FlyBoy said:

This post does nothing to add to the real problem, and you should be ashamed for behaving in this manner.

Tonkor is not fine. With the addition of Parkour 2.0, it basically invalidated the "grenade jump" mechanic of the Tonkor, which gave it nearly no self-damage whatsoever.

Now that people have had time to sit with their Tonkors in hand and come to rely on it, any change to it even if it's a good one, will be called a "Nerf" in their eyes.

Self-Damage is not a nerf.

It is a side-effect of using a Grenade Launcher, that can easily destroy rooms of enemies. No Risk and so much Reward that it seeps from your eyes. This is not the way it should be.

Damage does not need to be changed, however... The Tonkor needs Self-Damage for it to be fair to the other launchers, and to itself. Everyone who has come to rely on it because of its massive damage with no drawbacks will be saddened by this change sure. But it is for the sake of balance.

Super hard hitting critical stats, and base damage, with no risk to the user... doesn't that seem unfair to you? To the Poor Ol' Penta?

im not ashamed btw, unfair, side-effect, no risk to user, self damage all this words are a developers dictionary, im a player who wants fun weapons to play with i dont care about anything else, as i said ealier i have uni for doing complex or tiresome stuff, which i dont need in the game, i dont mean to be rude(( what's your MR or MR of most warframe  frequent Forums users??)) most of the topics posted here, are straight boredom changes, or players who feel like a walking apocalypse in the game and are somehow seeking greater challenges in the game, by wanting to remodel how everything works, cause lastly i had guys complain about Forums being where most players are not concerned with and it features a minority who are always trying to remodel the game. tired of a weapon?? you are the 1 in a million few, there are thousands of others who prefer the way it is ((clear fact))

Edited May 13, 2016 by NightElve

[(XBOX)KingOfDaAwesome]

1 hour ago, Aetherial_Enigma said:

Only Tenno items get primed

DE has already said that every weapon can be primed even if it is a faction weapon

[AEP8FlyBoy]

5 minutes ago, NightElve said:

im not ashamed btw, unfair, side-effect, no risk to user, self damage all this words are a developers dictionary, im a player who wants fun weapons to play with i dont care about anything else, as i said ealier i have uni for doing complex or tiresome stuff, which i dont need in the game, i dont mean to be rude(( it's a question what your MR or MR for most warframe consistent players are frequent Forums users??)) most of the topics posted here, are straight boredom changes, or players who feel like a walking apocalypse in the game and are somehow seeking greater challenges in the game, by wanting to remodel how everything works, cause lastly i had guys complain about Forums being where most players are not concerned with and it features a minority who are always trying to remodel the game. tires of a weapon?? sorry you are the 1 in a million few there are thousands others who prefer the way it is ((clear fact))

I've said enough on the subject.

You just don't seem to understand why I'm even speaking to you now, it isn't because I want to ruin players fun... it's because you and so many players like you have come to rely on a weapon that should've possessed a downside very VERY long ago.

I will leave this thread now. (Not because of you, or anything in this thread.) But because I am growing tired of reiterating the same point over and over.

Edited May 13, 2016 by AEP8FlyBoy

[Aetherial_Enigma]

3 minutes ago, (XB1)KingOfDaAwesome said:

DE has already said that every weapon can be primed even if it is a faction weapon

Wrong. Only TENNO items can get primed. the only exceptions are the Braton, Lato and Latron

[fatalis92]

Gonna love to see the tonkor never used again after the nerf ( even more if the self damage gets applied ). Whats so irritating about those nerf calling threads popping now and then is: that are made by people who couldnt care less about the weapon itself but rather see no one having fun or using it mid high level missions and succeeding to one or two shot something that they cant.


Is a strong weapon? SURE! 

Is it the ONLY weapon? NO!

Instead of crying about the 3 or 4 good weapons for end game challenges why the flying fu*k dont you cry for MORE?

One day we will be able to kill things just with warframes powers i guess.

[(XBOX)KingOfDaAwesome]

1 minute ago, Aetherial_Enigma said:

Wrong. Only TENNO items can get primed. the only exceptions are the Braton, Lato and Latron

In a devstream last year, this question popped up and they said that every weapon is abled to be primed.

[AEP8FlyBoy]

23 minutes ago, DeadlyPeanutt said:

adding self damage is not a nerf? how absurd!

add self damage to torrid, which has a higher base damage than tonkor... or sonicor which has no self damage even when you ragdoll bots from point blank range, or quanta, or SS, or... well all weapons.  How about tossing kultar bombs at a teammate and doing no damage? 

do you recommend FF damage also? it seems based on your argument that team mates should die also in a huge explosion. 

I advise you look at how other launcher type weapons (Penta, Ogris, Kulstar) deal damage to us. And only to teammates if either party possesses a Rad Proc.

[Aetherial_Enigma]

2 minutes ago, (XB1)KingOfDaAwesome said:

In a devstream last year, this question popped up and they said that every weapon is abled to be primed.

*Sigh* and by that they meant all the Tenno Items. Grineer/ Corpus have Wraith/Vandal. 

[(PSN)Tactless_Ninja]

2 minutes ago, AEP8FlyBoy said:

I advise you look at how other launcher type weapons (Penta, Ogris, Kulstar) deal damage to us. And only to teammates if either party possesses a Rad Proc.

They either shoot straight or need to be activated with alt. What don't YOU get?

[ViLeDeth]

Edited May 13, 2016 by ViLeDeth

[Aetherial_Enigma]

3 minutes ago, ViLeDeth said:

/Thread