Mag Rework Feedback [Post Update 18.13]

[(XBOX)Ivan of Jupiter]

44 minutes ago, motorfirebox said:

I don't know who Brozime is, but he clearly doesn't know anything about how to play Mag properly. When I take Mag into sorties, I usually take top damage and kills.

Brozime is my least favorite Warframe Youtuber. He's the kind to think that if it doesn't one shot most high level enemies then it's not worth using. Excal is his favorite, that should tell you something. He tries to compare other frames to him and paints them in a bad light, completely disregarding the functionality of the frame. It seems like he's always out to find the flaws in vey frame, especially when it comes to reworks and rarely ever spends an extended amount of time on the pros. This makes his audience blindly follow him on the path of, "This Warframe sucks I saw him use it in the Simulacrum." Even tho other tubers like Rio have proven him wrong by going into a T4 survival solo and say alive for a really long time.

[RealPandemonium]

Warframe youtubers in general do more harm than good.  They perhaps provide entertainment, but their opinions are far from authoritative and the accuracy of the information they present ranges from passable to just plain wrong.  

[Faulcun]

1 hour ago, RealPandemonium said:

Warframe youtubers in general do more harm than good.  They perhaps provide entertainment, but their opinions are far from authoritative and the accuracy of the information they present ranges from passable to just plain wrong.  

^ This +100

I cant tell you how many clan members i get coming in spouting these youtubers bs, and I show them the difference and they are like..... what have I been doing this whole time???

[tnccs215]

On ‎30‎/‎06‎/‎2016 at 5:16 PM, Joel_The_Jackle said:

 

IMO the rework turned Mag from a one-trick anti-corpus pony to a one-trick anti-everything pony. But a rework that still makes a warframe entirely dependent on a single one their skills for all their utility is still a bad design concept. I'm happy that she has multiple uses now but I feel they could have done much, much better.

Agreed. Also, going full off topic here:

Even Rio, mentioned before, as a certain enjoyment for a certain type of Cheese. I've seen some of his videos, and while there is no 4-spamming, there is no doubt he uses one or another exploitable mechanic.

Quiette Shy has a tendency to be overly salty and negative about everything, but she gets a pass because she's there for the snark, not for reviews--- though the fact she considered 18.13 "bad" and thought that enemy balancing should have come before warframe balance, and didnt really understood reworked Mag, kinda grinded my nerves.

Mogamu is so... Meh? Like, he's incredibly relevant, but I cant grasp why. Like his stuff is mostly basic things that "everyone knows" (or at least all the things I've seen of him are). And his jokes feel really, really out of place.

Faitko... No offense to her, but why is she famous? Like, she's a good player, but I didn't find anything special about her videos.

DKdiamantes is DKdiamantes. That is, he gets a pass for similar reasons Quiette does: His stuff isn't based around reviewing as it is on doing other things. Though he gets a bit more of a pass than her because nothing he does is even remotely similar to a review. And, with all due respect, that's good, because he's not that much of a good player.

The only problems I have with AGGP are his almost dogmatic distaste for status effects and how his jokes have become a bit more and more forced (and some views on relationships he has--- sorry, but romantic sex is good). But he does a lot of research and testing, and his views make a lot of sense.

MGIBlaze is possibly my favorite youtuber: His review videos are long, concise, precise and thorough. Only thing I hate is how rarely he posts them.

Brozime... He's an idiot. Sorry, that's it.

RevXDev.... Let's not talk about that guy.

[radastir]

And so the Mag thread descends into Youtuber name-shaming...

 

On Topic:

Mag's 2 has the potential be a great Ability, right now it is flawed because certain enemy types can right walk or shoot through it besides the troll potential it provides in prohibiting team mates to do so. A fine addition would be the ability to turn it off like Frost with his bubbles. Certain enemies can still teleport or are comletely unaffected (like the ice-men-targets of capture missions).

Overall she needs shorter casting times and a little more energy for making it a fine caster frame and maybe even more survivable with Quick Thinking.

The Augments need a rework, too to fit the new mag better, especially the overshield augment working with armored enemies (such as healing or bonus armor when affecting armored targets like the shield gain with shielded targets).

Edited July 2, 2016 by radastir
Fixed typos.

[robbybe01234]

^ Yeah, that's the thread life cycle.  After the serious people give needed constructive feedback, then leave, all that remains are opinionated apologists.  These people don't offer anything new.  The people citing their high kill/damage count need to realize; little skill or decision making on your part led to those results.  The mechanic of abilities that pass through walls and are spherical in how they expand from the frame led to those numbers.  You guys shouldn't be okay with things that clearly don't make sense and could be so easily improved.  1 example:  Can you explain why pull isn't tuned to get enemies into magnetize orbs and is left as a random ragdoll generator?  

A couple more bullets points after having played her more extensively:

• Increase consistency in how abilities affect enemies.
  • too often pull/magnetize/crush are unreliable in their application. 
• Increase energy pool to match the design of ability spamming. 
• Add sliding to the passive so that sliding and bullet jumping will trigger the vacuum.

There are many, many more things to be done but I don't have the time to list them all.

 

[motorfirebox]

Am I crazy, or did Pull's ragdoll effect used to be much better? As in it actually yanked enemies towards you, rather than tossing them in random directions half the time?

[RealPandemonium]

21 minutes ago, motorfirebox said:

Am I crazy, or did Pull's ragdoll effect used to be much better? As in it actually yanked enemies towards you, rather than tossing them in random directions half the time?

This was true very, very long ago.  

[Omnimorph]

Late to the party as I've just come back after a break, and I have to say that Mag's rework is the most disappointing of all the reworks so far.  Her gameplay feels kind of disjointed and nothingey to me now, whereas before I felt I had a toolkit of distinct options for different situations.

My big worry is that DE are so enamoured of a new unified way of designing frames, and it's moving away from the idea of each frame being unique and distinct and fitting a particular theme, to a more generic, unified form of gameplay; and I think that's a bad idea. 

Perhaps it was the noise about press 4 to win that bothered them, but that can't be right since some of the reworks are more powerful than before.  But what has been lost in some cases is a bit of unique theme-fitting character.  Some warframes should be synergy-based, sure, but some should have separate, different tools; some should be "active" gameplay, some should be "passive" gameplay.  I think you need that variability in flavour so that there's something for everyone. 

The idea of making every warframe such that they're all equally enjoyable for everyone, and easily substitutable, is in danger of making things bland, so that there's less incentive to particularly fall in love with any one.

[tnccs215]

46 minutes ago, Omnimorph said:

Late to the party as I've just come back after a break, and I have to say that Mag's rework is the most disappointing of all the reworks so far.  Her gameplay feels kind of disjointed and nothingey to me now, whereas before I felt I had a toolkit of distinct options for different situations.

 

 

What? That doesn't make any sense.

For her kit to be so fundamentally different and worse, her kit would have to be, well... Fundamentally different. And it's not. Hell, most of her abilities are either the same, or improved versions of the same. Crush and pull are exactly the same things, except for the sound effects. Polarize is different, but still completes the same function it was originally designed to-- and more even! And that extra functionality still makes sense in a "disable defenses" logic--, and magnetize, though much more powerful and tactical, it is still the same concept: A localized defense/attack bubble to turn enemy fire against themselves.

And so, she didn't loose any functionality. Well, any except the ability to completely destroy any corpus unit regardless of level. And that was awfully overpowered. And the functionality she got-- tactical defense and destruction through choke point control-- isnt that far fetched from magnetism. Well, it makes much more sense in a magnetic frame than super jump on a swordsman.

59 minutes ago, Omnimorph said:

My big worry is that DE are so enamoured of a new unified way of designing frames, and it's moving away from the idea of each frame being unique and distinct and fitting a particular theme, to a more generic, unified form of gameplay; and I think that's a bad idea. 

 

 

Ironically, frames became much, much less formulaic than they used to be, specially in terms of first and ultimate abilities.

Lets see the abilities of most "original frames", and some of the open beta:

1)single target or frontal damage ability (with an optional effect):

Excalibur? Check

Volt? Check

Mag? Check

Ember? Check

Rhino? Check

Ash? Ceck

Oberon? Check

Etc. Possible exception is Loki, but he was marketed has the "for advanced players" and "more based around tricking the enemy than engaging them". And even him is barely complex.

Now, I admit that first abilities dont give that much room for variation, but hell, we got clones on mirage, form changing in Equinox, a single bullet buff on mesa, fire feet for wukong, energy CC for Inaros, Spores on reworked Saryn (not sure how they used to behave before the Nerf that preceded (heavily) the rework), those things on Nova, grenades on Vauban...

And ultimates? Hell, they were all nukes. No exception. You used to be able to kill enemies with radial disarm. Radial Javelin is a Nuke. Stomp is a nuke, Crush is a nuke, Oberon's ult is a nuke, nyx's ult is a new, Volt's nuke (prerework) is a nuke, Miasma is a nuke, Banshee's ult is a nuke. Etc, etc. There were some exceptions, but most fell down on this category.

Now, most ultimates, while still powerful, rarely fall in the nuke category-- or, at least, not so blandly. Inaros nuke is incredible. Exalted weapons are not uncommon-- and not bad at all. Equinox's nuke requires build up, and is a rather interesting (though borderline overpowered) ability. Prism is Prism. Effigy is a Sentry. Etc.

And I admit there is some variation in the second and third abilities, but even them fell more or less in the same formula: Usually a self or team buff, and a defense ability.

 

I'm sorry, but for all the possible criticism, saying that frames are becoming more formulaic in a post-Reworked Saryn, Post Ivara, post Inaros, post Equinox, post Limbo and post reworked Mag and Volt Warframe is simply not valid.

Hell, seriously, if anything, Mag became more unique. While Magnetize and Polarize now incorporate some characteristics that are also present on other powers, they are very unique ones. There is no power capable of doing wat Magnetize does, and no ability capable of permanently destroy enemy defenses like Polarize. How the hell are you even capable of oming here and saying frames are less unique and more formulaic?

1 hour ago, Omnimorph said:

 

 

Perhaps it was the noise about press 4 to win that bothered them, but that can't be right since some of the reworks are more powerful than before.  But what has been lost in some cases is a bit of unique theme-fitting character.  Some warframes should be synergy-based, sure, but some should have separate, different tools; some should be "active" gameplay, some should be "passive" gameplay.  I think you need that variability in flavour so that there's something for everyone. 

The difference is that you have to work just a but more than pressing one button to have that power. Saryn wrecks, but requires work. Mag wrecks, but requires work. Ivara wrecks, and requires work. Excalibur doesnt require work-- doesn wreck as much. Same for Valkyr. Mirage. Etc.

Warframes are becoming more engaging. Mre fun. And less cheesie.

Not gonna say more about the rest of the paragraph because I already answered to it before. Frames are more engaging, unique, and some are more synergetic. What you are saying simply doesn't meet the reality of the game.

1 hour ago, Omnimorph said:

The idea of making every warframe such that they're all equally enjoyable for everyone, and easily substitutable, is in danger of making things bland, so that there's less incentive to particularly fall in love with any one.

There are at least 27 pages of brainless salt towards reworked Mag in this thread (the rest is praise).

There were many more towards Saryn.

Many of the most used frames also got nerfed.

Ar you sure DE is trying to make frames enjoyable to everyone? Or just to those who,dont think bland, cheese and overpoweredness is fun?

[MagPrime]

12 hours ago, motorfirebox said:

Am I crazy, or did Pull's ragdoll effect used to be much better? As in it actually yanked enemies towards you, rather than tossing them in random directions half the time?

It's been like that for...awhile.  I've spent at least a year having a blast skeet shooting with that ability.

[motorfirebox]

Yeah, it's definitely been at least a while and a half. I just have fond memories of making beautiful Grineer waterfalls down the big steps on Draco.

[Rhaenxys]

Personally i would be happy if there was a better option to apply the bonus damage from pull and crush, with the right weapon enemies instadie when entering magnetize bubble, even if the bonus damage would apply to every enemy inside magnetize bubble (is only the main target currently) it would be incredibly redundant.

Probably the better option is to apply the bonus damage for pull and crush when mag is inside the magnetize bubble so she has increased damage to damage enemies outside magnetize and magnetize for scalable damage in a fixed area.

Edited July 3, 2016 by Rhaenxys

[TheLexiConArtist]

Did I miss patch notes recently that reduced Magnetise targets to a limit of three? Every fourth target I hit is popping the first Magnetise bubble now.

Quote

•    Magnetize: Magnetize (previously Bullet Attractor) will root the target in place....Up to 4 targets can be Magnetized at this time.

Right there in the original rework notes, and I can't find any target limit reductions from ctrl-F-ing 'magn'[etize] through all the patch notes since.

[-N7-Leonhart]

1 hour ago, EDYinnit said:

Did I miss patch notes recently that reduced Magnetise targets to a limit of three? Every fourth target I hit is popping the first Magnetise bubble now.

Right there in the original rework notes, and I can't find any target limit reductions from ctrl-F-ing 'magn'[etize] through all the patch notes since.

In a bubble, technically only one target is magnetized, and the other stuff is just pulled to it (center). So 4 targets means you have 4 bubbles max.

[TheLexiConArtist]

4 minutes ago, -BM-Leonhart said:

In a bubble, technically only one target is magnetized, and the other stuff is just pulled to it (center). So 4 targets means you have 4 bubbles max.

Yes. I magnetise three different targets. I attempt to magnetise a fourth. My first magnetise bubble automatically pops. For reasons.

[-N7-Leonhart]

13 minutes ago, EDYinnit said:

Yes. I magnetise three different targets. I attempt to magnetise a fourth. My first magnetise bubble automatically pops. For reasons.

I see. Probably a bug then, since they never do stealth changes on abilities that were just reworked.

[LunarEdge7]

Only thing that I wanna talk about this rework is that Pull seems inconsistent, and Crush is a really dissappointing ulti, still.

Never used her before the rework, but from what I heard, those two problems above are the sore-thumbed ones.

Enemies in the Magnetized field should all receive the bonus x2 dmg of Crush.

Crush by itself needs to have a special effect, like ragdolling after 2-3 whole ticks (stated by another poster here), and maybe even synergise with Magnetize by throwing the ragdolled enemies to join nearby Magnetize fields. (Its augment is just fine and will be there for players who want their enemies to stay still, not fling around to the end of any corridor. And of course the armor reduction.)

Not sure if Magnetize should be tweaked so that all enemies will stick to the Magnetized field.. Also, is Mag supposed to glorify continuous beam-firing weapons and will it stay this way, to synergise really well with Magnetize? I hope so.. It's motivating me to put more forma into my Glaxion and other conti. beam weapons.

[DVNC]

Mag is love.

Mag is life.

[MagPrime]

5 hours ago, Magnetize said:

Mag is love.

Mag is life.

I like how you think.

[(PSN)Void_Girl]

Is armor depletion % based on power strength? Anything? I can't find any information on the actual mechanics of Polarize.

[motorfirebox]

12 minutes ago, (PS4)Void_Girl said:

Is armor depletion % based on power strength? Anything? I can't find any information on the actual mechanics of Polarize.

http://warframe.wikia.com/wiki/Polarize

[(PSN)Void_Girl]

11 minutes ago, motorfirebox said:

http://warframe.wikia.com/wiki/Polarize

Thanks but the wiki doesn't seem to be fully updated.

Is 100% armor depletion possible, and if so, how much power strength is required? Or, is armor depletion a fixed value rather than percentage? Is it even the same as armor reduction (i.e. corrosive projection), because it just sounds like flat damage to armor like any weapon... which would be horrible. I am reading contradictory information even on the wiki itself.

Edited July 4, 2016 by (PS4)Void_Girl

[motorfirebox]

2 minutes ago, (PS4)Void_Girl said:

Thanks but the wiki doesn't seem to be fully updated.

Is 100% armor depletion possible, and if so, how much power strength is required? Or, is armor depletion a fixed value rather than percentage? I am reading contradictory information.

It's a fixed value, 400 at max rank. To strip an enemy's armor to 100%, you have to cast Polarize enough times to overcome however much armor they have. So for instance, level 100 Kela de Thaym has 4134 alloy armor. So if you're using Polarize without any power strength mods, you'd have to cast it 11 times to strip her armor to 0.

[(PSN)Void_Girl]

Just now, motorfirebox said:

It's a fixed value, 400 at max rank. To strip an enemy's armor to 100%, you have to cast Polarize enough times to overcome however much armor they have. So for instance, level 100 Kela de Thaym has 4134 alloy armor. So if you're using Polarize without any power strength mods, you'd have to cast it 11 times to strip her armor to 0.

Thanks.