Mag Rework Feedback [Post Update 18.13]

[Dracario]

4 minutes ago, EDYinnit said:

Well, it's quite a logic problem as an ability to enable actual bullet input to hit things inside other than the main target/epicentre, which DE has mitigated by giving us the DoT effect.

Anything not ragdolled and drawn into the centre is likely to not take damage, at higher ranges this even includes a Lanka simply because of the way the projectiles only orbit very specifically inside the gravitational effect.

Non-projectile weapons don't even do that; they generate particles that go to the middle and are done with their life. Anything not in the direct path of that radius line between centre and point of entry can't be hit, which means anything beyond the hemisphere facing the player is effectively completely safe from nonprojectile attracted bullets.

 

So, since the magnetic pull is... weak enough that it's not a perfect block to anything running through that really wants to and isn't under CC, you either use projectiles and/or CC to get things within the 'effective zone' (point for nonprojectiles, orbit for projectiles), or you simply pump in as much damage to the bubble for the DoT effect and/or radial explosion as you can, so that clears out enemies you wouldn't get to hit otherwise.

That's what Pull is for. Pulling in more enemies into your sphere. The problem with using pull is that it overshoots the bubble  and towards Mag.

Though now that you mention it it should be an augment. Using pull pointed at Magnetize causes the bubble to pull in more targets from 5/8/10m away from the bubble (can be improved with range mods). Therefore a better CC and a real combo between abilities.

Also fair point about the hit-scan weapons.

[RealPandemonium]

4 hours ago, Dracario said:

You know what I mean, only a limited amount of guns are.

Outside of level 70+, generic entry-level weapons like Karak and Boltor (60 mod capacity) quickly charge up a DoT that slaughters the enemies in the bubble, and if that doesn't kill them the explosion will, along with everything else in range.

Lanka/beam interactions with the bubble are needless outliers that should be brought in line with the rest of the arsenal.

[Soridian]

I'm sorry but really, can we stop defendng the mag rework by going 'but magnetise is great! I can charge it up to insta kill everything!'? Let's be honest here, the mag rework has nerfed one op skill and replaced it with another. Any skill that can be charged up to do over a million points of damage utilising weapons which have rediculous interactions with the skill is obviously not just op, but broken.

 

the rework imo needs redoing, simple as

Edited July 5, 2016 by Soridian

[Faulcun]

3 hours ago, Soridian said:

I'm sorry but really, can we stop defendng the mag rework by going 'but magnetise is great! I can charge it up to insta kill everything!'? Let's be honest here, the mag rework has nerfed one op skill and replaced it with another. Any skill that can be charged up to do over a million points of damage utilising weapons which have rediculous interactions with the skill is obviously not just op, but broken.

 

the rework imo needs redoing, simple as

See, bullet attractor was always OP. The ability worked very similar to the current magnetize, just without the DOT or as strong of an explosion. But you could do over 4x damage in one shot, and it still worked great for a positional shield. We were one shotting level 100 bullet sponge bosses on sorties before the rework. Pull has always been good, nothing has changed there. Polarize is slightly less op, but is now super effective against ALL enemies which is worth the trade off. Magnetize is an even better version of BA... win/win. And I dont really use 4 on any of my frames, but there is bonus damage and synergy with your other abilities now....

So im all for the rework. Mag was a beast before, and shes still a beast now. I simply think that the people who are looking for a "mash whatever button to win with little to no effort" are going to be the most disappointed here. Those who have a solid understanding of this frame, or any frame for that matter as is the case with most of these threads, will have the least amount of issues in combat.

Im all for broken things being fixed though. The lanka was patched shortly after the rework anyways because of the interaction. Now it supposedly works properly and seems just fine to me.

[(PSN)Yodunheim]

What's with the mag hate DE? Literally one of the weakest frame and she just keeps getting dug deeper and deeper. First it was greedy pull nerf, thanks... Now polarize nerf... Haven't touched her much since.

Meanwhile ash presses 4 and wipes out everything on the tileset. I'm just at a loss

[tnccs215]

Just now, (PS4)Yodunheim said:

What's with the mag hate DE? Literally one of the weakest frame and she just keeps getting dug deeper and deeper. First it was greedy pull nerf, thanks... Now polarize nerf... Haven't touched her much since.

Meanwhile ash presses 4 and wipes out everything on the tileset. I'm just at a loss

Don't worry. he too will go soon enough.

[(PSN)Silverback73]

17 minutes ago, (PS4)Yodunheim said:

What's with the mag hate DE? Literally one of the weakest frame and she just keeps getting dug deeper and deeper. First it was greedy pull nerf, thanks... Now polarize nerf... Haven't touched her much since.

Meanwhile ash presses 4 and wipes out everything on the tileset. I'm just at a loss

You need to backtrack through the last 4-5 pages and check the actual playtest data the Mag Pros have posted.

I'm sorry, but your perception is wrong.  You bounce in and declare you haven't touched her since the rework and then cut loose with the  "Hate" proclamations.  Please be more constructive.

Ash will be reworked soon enough, but that is a separate issue.

Edited July 6, 2016 by (PS4)Silverback73

[(XBOX)Ivan of Jupiter]

18 minutes ago, (PS4)Yodunheim said:

What's with the mag hate DE? Literally one of the weakest frame and she just keeps getting dug deeper and deeper. First it was greedy pull nerf, thanks... Now polarize nerf... Haven't touched her much since.

Meanwhile ash presses 4 and wipes out everything on the tileset. I'm just at a loss

Mag had no use beyond one shotting corpus no matter the level. In fact it was more powerful depending on the level. I feel like the people that are mad about the polarize change are the ones that wanted the other 3 abilities to be OP as well.

funny. I didn't like mag pre rework. I leveled her and never used her again. I knew what she was capable of, but I never put myself that low. I'm in the small minority of people that don't like to cheese my way through games. I had a mirage too. One of my fav frames. Never used blind mirage because it was just stupid and broken. 

But now after the rework mag has become one of my favs along with mirage. Maybe I just have different tastes than 98% of the Warframe community.

[tnccs215]

23 minutes ago, (XB1)DRG JupiterIvan said:

Mag had no use beyond one shotting corpus no matter the level. In fact it was more powerful depending on the level. I feel like the people that are mad about the polarize change are the ones that wanted the other 3 abilities to be OP as well.

funny. I didn't like mag pre rework. I leveled her and never used her again. I knew what she was capable of, but I never put myself that low. I'm in the small minority of people that don't like to cheese my way through games. I had a mirage too. One of my fav frames. Never used blind mirage because it was just stupid and broken. 

But now after the rework mag has become one of my favs along with mirage. Maybe I just have different tastes than 98% of the Warframe community.

I use an excal for nothing but augmented Slash Dash, I refuse to use Hysteria, I refused to use Peacemaker, I haven't touch Loki for ages, and only started to use Mag and Saryn after their rework.

 

Thoust aren't alone.

[tnccs215]

15 hours ago, Soridian said:

I'm sorry but really, can we stop defendng the mag rework by going 'but magnetise is great! I can charge it up to insta kill everything!'? Let's be honest here, the mag rework has nerfed one op skill and replaced it with another. Any skill that can be charged up to do over a million points of damage utilising weapons which have rediculous interactions with the skill is obviously not just op, but broken.

 

the rework imo needs redoing, simple as

• Magnetize broken scaling with Beam weapons is due to it's DoT being dependent on framerate. it's not a feature, it's a bug. It should be fixed soon enough, and many will cry.
• Even OP as it is, it is still not as brainless as she used to be.
• I've already described the amazing synergy between polarize and Fracturing Crush, which make her the single best frame taking care of enemy armor. It requires the use of an augment, sure; but it is still an amazing synergy. Plus, instans shielding is always nice
• With that in mind, and with the exception of Polarize, all abilities either stayed the same, or got buffed. Since Pull was already good and Crush, while somewhat bland, it wasn't entirely useless either, I think none of her abilities are useless.

[TheLexiConArtist]

9 minutes ago, tnccs215 said:

• Magnetize broken scaling with Beam weapons is due to it's DoT being dependent on framerate. it's not a feature, it's a bug. It should be fixed soon enough, and many will cry.

As long as the multishot and crit ignorance issues are fixed at the same time, it shouldn't be too debilitating. Maybe not "still 90% of damage on an elemental enhancement sortie" powerful, but still good and strong.

[Soridian]

Sigh.... You see, my problem with this entire thread is people's saying new mag is great, admitting magnetise is overpowered but then saying she's in a better place. How?....

if you remove the obviously broken magnetise skill from the argument she has been nerfed.

A frame cannot be said to be in a good place or better than before when the main addition to her skill set is a power than is riddled with bugs and can be abused through game mechanics to overpower anything without invincibility aspects.

ill be honest and say I'm in the better before camp but I'll also say the pre rework polarise needed a look. I also believe  the nerf went too far but i also prefer the old Bullet attractor to the new magnetise as the new is completely broken and open to abuse, and I'd honestly actually going about killing things than having to stop to utilise magnetise's full potential via buggy interactions with weapon types and punch through.

id probably prefer they just remove magnetise and polarise as they a are completely and replace them with something else more akin to mags description with the fallout the changes have caused i,e;

turn polarise into a push mechanic to go after pull reppelling enemies from each other like two same charged magnets and magnetise grouping enemies like oppositely charged magnets

 

Edited July 6, 2016 by Soridian

[tnccs215]

47 minutes ago, Soridian said:

Sigh.... You see, my problem with this entire thread is people's saying new mag is great, admitting magnetise is overpowered but then saying she's in a better place. How?....

if you remove the obviously broken magnetise skill from the argument she has been nerfed to hell.

A frame cannot be said to be in a good place or better than before when the main addition to her skill set is a power than is riddled with bugs and can be abused through game mechanics to overpower anything without invincibility aspects.

ill be honest and say I'm in the better before camp but I'll also say the pre rework polarise needed a look. I also believe  the nerf went too far but i also prefer the old Bullet attractor to the new magnetise as the new is completely broken and open to abuse, and I'd honestly actually going about killing things than having to stop to utilise magnetise's full potential via buggy interactions with weapon types and punch through.

id probably prefer they just remove magnetise and polarise completely and replace them with something else more akin to mags description with the fallout the changes have caused i,e;

turn polarise into a push mechanic to go after pull repealing enemies from each other like two same charged magnets and magnetise grouping enemies like oppositely charged magnets

 

Litterally the only abusable thing about Magnetize is it's interaction with beam weapons--- which should be fixed Soon^tm . Additionally, she wasn't nerfed to oblivion if you ignore Magnetize. At worse it stayed the same, at best it became more balanced. Polarize was broken as all hell-- much more than Magnetize is now-- and now is functional. Could there have been some more alterations, specially to Crush? Yes. 

Is she in a bad place?

When you fix Magnetize's few exploitations and problems, no. And even now, she is in a better place. 

[MagPrime]

1 hour ago, Soridian said:

Sigh.... You see, my problem with this entire thread is people's saying new mag is great, admitting magnetise is overpowered but then saying she's in a better place. How?....

if you remove the obviously broken magnetise skill from the argument she has been nerfed.

A frame cannot be said to be in a good place or better than before when the main addition to her skill set is a power than is riddled with bugs and can be abused through game mechanics to overpower anything without invincibility aspects.

ill be honest and say I'm in the better before camp but I'll also say the pre rework polarise needed a look. I also believe  the nerf went too far but i also prefer the old Bullet attractor to the new magnetise as the new is completely broken and open to abuse, and I'd honestly actually going about killing things than having to stop to utilise magnetise's full potential via buggy interactions with weapon types and punch through.

id probably prefer they just remove magnetise and polarise as they a are completely and replace them with something else more akin to mags description with the fallout the changes have caused i,e;

turn polarise into a push mechanic to go after pull reppelling enemies from each other like two same charged magnets and magnetise grouping enemies like oppositely charged magnets

 

Mag is viable against more factions, has synergy between her abilities and, in my opinion after playing her for over 2 years, is in a better place because of those things.

The only thing abusable about Magnetize, like tnccs said, is the beam weapon thing.  Beyond that, I'd like to have seen Crush get some Exalted treatment.  But, with Polarize in play, it's more useful since it's damage is augmented by power strength and it's damage can be applied directly to the enemies health.

Bullet Attractor was a good ability, but Mag outgrew it.  The ability was lack luster and wasn't viable late game due to the player only being able to cast once.  Now, it's castable 4 times and the player has more control over how the ability works.  i.e., Range/Duration for damage increases.

How is this a bad change?

[Soridian]

On 06/07/2016 at 3:57 PM, Noamuth said:

Mag is viable against more factions, has synergy between her abilities and, in my opinion after playing her for over 2 years, is in a better place because of those things.

The only thing abusable about Magnetize, like tnccs said, is the beam weapon thing.  Beyond that, I'd like to have seen Crush get some Exalted treatment.  But, with Polarize in play, it's more useful since it's damage is augmented by power strength and it's damage can be applied directly to the enemies health.

Bullet Attractor was a good ability, but Mag outgrew it.  The ability was lack luster and wasn't viable late game due to the player only being able to cast once.  Now, it's castable 4 times and the player has more control over how the ability works.  i.e., Range/Duration for damage increases.

How is this a bad change?

Magnetise is the thing by which Mag is now more powerfull against factions, not anything else. as i've said before, remove magnetise from the equation and what do you get? a lesser mag than before. the rework has simply moved polarise being her OP skill to Magnetise while leaving polarise almost useless after a certain enemy level and with mechanic restrictions which limits her synergy with the new magnetise (restricts low duration builds, i.e range of polarise being affected, which practically forces a high duration build).

with Magnetise is not just simply a fps interaction with beam weapons aswell, i run the game on a 4 year old PC and i can boost the DoT on magnetise to 10-20k per sec very easily. It's also not the only interaction bug thats around, the whole lanka thing? it can still be done, to a slightly lesser degree but its still possilbe, alongside other high damage-fast fire projectile weapons.

Also, with Mag's position being a starter frame. prior to the rework a new player could very easily get a fair amount of the skill ceiling with Mag without a large modset/weaponset and could explore/progress quite quickly. Now, to get the most out of mag you'd need to understand the interactions beetween range and duration for the new polarise, find a weapon suitable to play her with to make the most out of magnetise and is almost forced to build for high duration over anything else which also promotes slow paced gameplay and specific area lockdown with the nature of how the new magnetise function.  The interaction with teamplay is also detrimental with the new skil  with many players often criticising its use as it re-directs fire within passing through the bubble with no means to end it early.

As mentioned before, my main concern with the arguments here that the new mag is better are all generally focused on magnetise, which is in itself an OP skill and is being abused through mechanics already. this is taking away from any positive contributions onto how to make her better as the minute someone writes on here that the pre-rework mag was better figures and examples of what can be acheived with magnetise are put up as the argument even though people admit they are themselves using mechanics which are more than likely unintended.

 

 

[MagPrime]

1 hour ago, Soridian said:

Magnetise is the thing by which Mag is now more powerfull against factions, not anything else. as i've said before, remove magnetise from the equation and what do you get? a lesser mag than before. the rework has simply moved polarise being her OP skill to Magnetise while leaving polarise almost useless after a certain enemy level and with mechanic restrictions which limits her synergy with the new magnetise (restricts low duration builds, i.e range of polarise being affected, which practically forces a high duration build).

with Magnetise is not just simply a fps interaction with beam weapons aswell, i run the game on a 4 year old PC and i can boost the DoT on magnetise to 10-20k per sec very easily. It's also not the only interaction bug thats around, the whole lanka thing? it can still be done, to a slightly lesser degree but its still possilbe, alongside other high damage-fast fire projectile weapons.

Also, with Mag's position being a starter frame. prior to the rework a new player could very easily get a fair amount of the skill ceiling with Mag without a large modset/weaponset and could explore/progress quite quickly. Now, to get the most out of mag you'd need to understand the interactions beetween range and duration for the new polarise, find a weapon suitable to play her with to make the most out of magnetise and is almost forced to build for high duration over anything else which also promotes slow paced gameplay and specific area lockdown with the nature of how the new magnetise function.  The interaction with teamplay is also detrimental with the new skil  with many players often criticising its use as it re-directs fire within passing through the bubble with no means to end it early.

As mentioned before, my main concern with the arguments here that the new mag is better are all generally focused on magnetise, which is in itself an OP skill and is being abused through mechanics already. this is taking away from any positive contributions onto how to make her better as the minute someone writes on here that the pre-rework mag was better figures and examples of what can be acheived with magnetise are put up as the argument even though people admit they are themselves using mechanics which are more than likely unintended.

 

 

So to clarify, you got a little wordy and I'm tired, pre rework Mag is better.  And she's better simply because Magnetize replaced Polarize as her go to skill and none of the changes are in anyway beneficial to improving her diversity?  That none of her skills are able to perform to the same standard as pre rework?

[tnccs215]

1 hour ago, Soridian said:

snip

I'm gonna sound rude, but it's quite obvious you don't know squat of what you are talking about. Allow me to explain why.

1 hour ago, Soridian said:

Magnetise is the thing by which Mag is now more powerfull against factions, not anything else. as i've said before, remove magnetise from the equation and what do you get? a lesser mag than before.

Well, not quite. You see, the difference between a frame being a one-trick-pony and have a main ability is wether or not that 1-trick is an exploitation, whether or not each ability augments said trick, whether or not that trick makes every other power obsolete, and so on. While Mag is indeed very reliable on Magnetize, if you take off Beam weapons from the equation, you get a power that, while very powerful, isn't exploitable. it needs a lot of variables, care and control to shine--- ence why so many people said that it was garbage at the start. Additionally, her other abilities augment Magnetize, though through more natural means than, say, Saryn's abiltiies augment Spores. Pull brings enemies to the bubble, Crush prevents enemy movement, allowing the bubble to absorve them, Polarize makes enemies more susceptible to damage, etc.

Additionally, every frame is worse than an older version if you take the buffed power-- regardless of whether that buff was good or not. I could say "ugh, take Spores away, and Saryn is worse than before", and it would be true... but it wouldn't matter, because the paradigm shifted. Tell me, would older Mag be better than the modern if you took of Shield Polarize? Didn't thought so.

In the end, your argument is reduced to "Only Magnetize got buffed, and her other abilities also needed buffs." which is arguable at best, and false at worst. Pull is practically perfect for a 1. Crush, while somewhat lackluster, still does a pretty good job (I admit it Fracturing Crush should become part of it though), and Polarise? Well, I'm sorry to say, but just because something no longuer scales doesn't mean it is obligatorily trash. Is it still able to trivialize gameplay? no. But that is irrelevant, because it shouldnt be able to do it in the first place. Additionally, now it possesses an armor stripping ability that make her the single best armor nullifier frame in game, if you know how to use it.

1 hour ago, Soridian said:

 the rework has simply moved polarise being her OP skill to Magnetise while leaving polarise almost useless after a certain enemy level

My answe to this is a mixture of "that's wrong" and "and?"

The fact is, changing the "OP abiltiy" to Magnetise is, on one hand, wrong --Magnetize is only overpowered due to a bug that is surely going to be fixed soon-- and, on the other, not bad. Indeed, it is good: Shield Polarize allowed you to instantly destroy any corpus unit on a very wide radius, making level (and gameplay) irrelevant, and all that while being completely useless against other factions. Magnetize, on the other hand, requires vaguely thoughtful positioning, investment on the bubble, and is good against all factions. Less overpowered, more dynamic, more rewarding, and more engaging. So yes, it also changed the main ability-- and the results were very good.

Now, regarding Polarize, well, you are taking it as "if it doesnt scale, it's bad". well, I regret to inform you, but that's a tautology.

Fact is, we are not supposed to last to have 400. we are not supposed to reach the enemy level cap. Powers should start to fail sooner than that. And Polarise is one of those powers-- and that's perfectly fine.

Also, this:

So yeah, not only you are wrong, it still wouldn't matter even if you were right.

1 hour ago, Soridian said:

and with mechanic restrictions which limits her synergy with the new magnetise (restricts low duration builds, i.e range of polarise being affected, which practically forces a high duration build).

I'm sorry, what mechanical restrictions? You mean it's duration requirement?

That is a restriction yes. But in my country, it's called "absence of dead stats". You know what a dead stat is? is a stat that is irrelevant for a frame. you know what dead stats lead to? Corrupted Mod abuse and Cheese. Or have you forgotten about negative duration Saryn?

Of course you are being penalized by having negative stats. you should be. Negative stats should be that. Negative. Trade offs. Limitations to prevent abuse. Acting as if they were bad is nothing but thirst for overpoweredness and cheese.

Also, you obviously have no knowledge about Polarize's range. it is pretty generous, even with 68% duration.

Again, not only are you wrong, it also wouldn't matter if you were right.

1 hour ago, Soridian said:

with Magnetise is not just simply a fps interaction with beam weapons aswell, i run the game on a 4 year old PC and i can boost the DoT on magnetise to 10-20k per sec very easily.

Quanta as a fire rate of 1/s. even if your pc runs with 15 fps, it still means a 15x damage multiplier. So yeah, it is the bug.

1 hour ago, Soridian said:

It's also not the only interaction bug thats around, the whole lanka thing? it can still be done, to a slightly lesser degree but its still possilbe, alongside other high damage-fast fire projectile weapons.

That whole Lanka thing is much less reliable than people pretend it to be. yes, it works well on simulacrum, but the simulacrum has much less obstacles around. if your bubble happens to be slightly inside a wall, your lanka is worthless. And that problem is even more intensified with the other projectile weapons, because they dont have the 5 meter punchthrough the lanka has.

So yes, irrelevant.

1 hour ago, Soridian said:

Also, with Mag's position being a starter frame. prior to the rework a new player could very easily get a fair amount of the skill ceiling with Mag without a large modset/weaponset and could explore/progress quite quickly. Now, to get the most out of mag you'd need to understand the interactions beetween range and duration for the new polarise, find a weapon suitable to play her with to make the most out of magnetise and is almost forced to build for high duration over anything else which also promotes slow paced gameplay and specific area lockdown with the nature of how the new magnetise function.  The interaction with teamplay is also detrimental with the new skil  with many players often criticising its use as it re-directs fire within passing through the bubble with no means to end it early.

Actually, not really, no.

Previous Mag demanded Blind Rage and/or Transient Fortitude, Overextended, Fleeting Expertise, and many other mods to be vaguely viable. In case you haven't noticed, those mods are not only rare, but also expensive.

Even if new Mag was on a bad position, she would still be on a better position.

Not to mention, of course, the fact that she isn't in a bad position in the first place. Polarize is borderline an overpowered nuke on lower levels-- a great way to compensate for the higher energy cost, which is much harder to deal with when you are new. Additionally, she no longuer requires rare, expensive mods for you to get a decent build. Hell, my main build litterally has 128% duration, 130% efficiency, 160% range, and 185% strength. those are all very close to what you can achieve with "base mods" with the exception of my strength-- and you don't need that much strength on lower levels. She is much easier and less expensive to mod, honestly.

Additionally, you seem to be literally the only person worried about how Polarize expands with power duration and has a starting range based on power range. It literally is that simple. anyone capable of reading is able to understand this. stop acting as if it was a big problem.

No, they don't need to find a suitable weapon for Polarize. Again, we are talking about newbies. any gun is good enough up to level 60, and Quanta only starts to weaken at... uhm... honeslty I don't know.  So no, you don't need a suitable weapon. you just need a weapon.

Also, no, you don't need to build for duration. Seriously, you are maing me doubt about you having even tested her.

I have to say the rest is kinda true but... not very important. newbies don't move a lot-- believe me, I sometimes play with them, and they aren't used to hoping around-- and high mobility only starts being important when you already got some frames, so encouraging slow gameplay isn't that problematic. detrimental for teamplay? hardly. indeed, I think it incentives it. instead of each person doing their own thing, you got them all fuelling the bubbles! isn't that teamplay?

1 hour ago, Soridian said:

As mentioned before, my main concern with the arguments here that the new mag is better are all generally focused on magnetise, which is in itself an OP skill and is being abused through mechanics already. this is taking away from any positive contributions onto how to make her better as the minute someone writes on here that the pre-rework mag was better figures and examples of what can be acheived with magnetise are put up as the argument even though people admit they are themselves using mechanics which are more than likely unintended.

 See, there is some heavy problems in here. This is a strawman: you are equating "positive contributions onto how to make her better" with "saying that pre-rework Mag ws better". Thouse are two very, very different things. If you say Post-Rework Mag needs X, Y and Z tweaks because of A, B and C, people are either argue agaisnt or conccur. If all you say is that pre-rework Mag was better, than all you are going to get is, well... proof that re-rework mag wasn't better.

Don't ask for an answer to a question you didn't ask.

[TheLexiConArtist]

56 minutes ago, tnccs215 said:

 

I was going to post a gif but it's a bit flashy. Oh wait, anyone playing Warframe these days gets their eyes burned out on a regular basis by effects anyway.

 

On a more thread-related note, with regards to 'fixing' continual weapons, here's a bit more detail on what I'd like to see at the same time in some sort of order:

• Multishot properly accounted for - Makes shotguns actually fuel a representative value in stored Magnetise damage. Brings the 'new baseline' a bit more accurately up to standard (somewhere between 'boltor prime' and 'continuals').
• Critical damage accounted for - Invisibly being 'object health' is making a lot of meta weapons subpar. Crit master race probably doesn't need the help, but Mag's a starter frame, and it could leave some new players a bit confused when they get a shiny new Soma and it (comparitively) doesn't do anything.
• AOE continuals to retain AOE properties instead of becoming a single stream of particle pseudo-bullets. Because Ignis is love and Embolist would be funny. Could be related to the multishot issue, perhaps.
• Or, possibly, a complete paradigm shift to making all damage received (by enemies) in the radius contribute to bubble charge.
  • Allows Mag's other abilties to synergise better to build on damage
  • Allows problem cases to actually contribute their relevant damage instead of, for example, explosives just contributing from one projectile impact (or nothing in the case of Simulor)
  • Allows status weapons to better contribute via damage procs and possibly radiation crossfire damage

Edited July 7, 2016 by EDYinnit

[MagPrime]

Guess I don't need to make a video of my Mag not using Magnetize now. XD

[Dracario]

56 minutes ago, EDYinnit said:

I was going to post a gif but it's a bit flashy. Oh wait, anyone playing Warframe these days gets their eyes burned out on a regular basis by effects anyway.

 

On a more thread-related note, with regards to 'fixing' continual weapons, here's a bit more detail on what I'd like to see at the same time in some sort of order:

• Multishot properly accounted for - Makes shotguns actually fuel a representative value in stored Magnetise damage. Brings the 'new baseline' a bit more accurately up to standard (somewhere between 'boltor prime' and 'continuals').
• Critical damage accounted for - Invisibly being 'object health' is making a lot of meta weapons subpar. Crit master race probably doesn't need the help, but Mag's a starter frame, and it could leave some new players a bit confused when they get a shiny new Soma and it (comparitively) doesn't do anything.
• AOE continuals to retain AOE properties instead of becoming a single stream of particle pseudo-bullets. Because Ignis is love and Embolist would be funny.
• Or, possibly, a complete paradigm shift to making all damage received (by enemies) in the radius contribute to bubble charge.
  • Allows Mag's other abilties to synergise better to build on damage
  • Allows problem cases to actually contribute their relevant damage instead of, for example, explosives just contributing from one projectile impact (or nothing in the case of Simulor)
  • Allows status weapons to better contribute via damage procs and possibly radiation crossfire damage

For shotguns I was more thinking on the lines of each pellet counted as an individual bullets entering the bubble.

Also DE needs to increase the pull Magnetize does because a bunch of enemies can just walk out of it...even Heavy Gunners

[MagPrime]

28 minutes ago, Dracario said:

For shotguns I was more thinking on the lines of each pellet counted as an individual bullets entering the bubble.

Also DE needs to increase the pull Magnetize does because a bunch of enemies can just walk out of it...even Heavy Gunners

Ice found that's true for a single cast, but toss multiple on one or two other nearby target's and they're good and stuck.

[Dracario]

Just now, Noamuth said:

Ice found that's true for a single cast, but toss multiple on one or two other nearby target's and they're good and stuck.

I've tested it further. It's mainly when the main target dies is when they began to separate. Obviously this can be offset with maximized range (overextended, stretch and cunning drift) but when you need more power strength in late game or need more armor strip, the magnetise bubble would be still rather small with just stretch on. Either a better pull from magnetize or a better scaling on power range for magnetize.

Also there should be a tooltip on the amount of shield and armor strip polarize does. Otherwise, it's not gonna be evident that the strip scales off power strength.

[robbybe01234]

2 hours ago, tnccs215 said:

I'm gonna sound rude, but it's quite obvious you don't know squat of what you are talking about. Allow me to explain why.

 

 

I'll say this, I can get behind the tests you run in the simulacrum.  It is very useful to know about the exponential armor reduction for Fracturing. 

Knowing how the multiple effects on each of her abilities affects enemies when combined with each other is the route to maximizing her potential. 

However, the only thing you did with this post is tell someone their own experience and observations are wrong due to the fact that it wasn't yours.

Testing ability interaction in a laboratory environment doesn't translate well into hectic combat situations.  Neither does citing your own anecdotal experiences in missions.  Regardless of how long you've played, it's still just you, not other people. 

So, while you were testing in a contained environment then insulting other people for having different experiences in a different environment, a Bombard randomly walked through one of your Magnetizes, off screen.  He shot a rocket at that bubble behind you, one-shotting you. 

[tnccs215]

30 minutes ago, robbybe01234 said:

I'll say this, I can get behind the tests you run in the simulacrum.  It is very useful to know about the exponential armor reduction for Fracturing. 

Knowing how the multiple effects on each of her abilities affects enemies when combined with each other is the route to maximizing her potential. 

However, the only thing you did with this post is tell someone their own experience and observations are wrong due to the fact that it wasn't yours.

Testing ability interaction in a laboratory environment doesn't translate well into hectic combat situations.  Neither does citing your own anecdotal experiences in missions.  Regardless of how long you've played, it's still just you, not other people. 

So, while you were testing in a contained environment then insulting other people for having different experiences in a different environment, a Bombard randomly walked through one of your Magnetizes, off screen.  He shot a rocket at that bubble behind you, one-shotting you. 

That person said polarize was useless.

I proved them wrong. With visual evidence.

Am I going to get one shotted by a level 130 bombard? probably. But it will be a level 130 bombard without armor, because polarize isn't useless.

It isn't my word against them. it's my word and research and arguments against their declarations. Not to mention, of course, that when I aim to disprove a declaration, I disprove that declaration, and nothing else.

You see, the argument here wasn't whether or not Mag can survive with level 130 enemies--- though, with care, she can. hardly, but can. and that's an enemy balancing issue more than it is a Mag issue-- it was whether or not polarise was useless. I proved polarise is quite useful, doing th task it was designed to do quite well.

I admit I understand your doubts regarding how this will or wont work outised the simulacrum. only rarely does simulacrum testing equate to performance on a mission-- hell, I said it myself regarding the Lanka, which isnt that useful on missions as it is on the simulacrum. Surprisingly enough, and if my word is worth anything, it actually performs better in normal missions than in the simulacrum.

Why? Well, because in normal missions, not all enemies are heavy units with enormous amounts of base armor, nor are they all level 130. And, lets be honest: chances are we shouldn't even be fighting level 130 enemies, so... yes. I can assure you that it works quite well outside of the simulacrum.

Indeed, if you manage to make enemies gang up, with the right build, you can use polarize as a nuke up to level 40ish.

Edited July 7, 2016 by tnccs215

[robbybe01234]

50 minutes ago, tnccs215 said:

That person said polarize was useless.

I proved them wrong. With visual evidence.

Am I going to get one shotted by a level 130 bombard? probably. But it will be a level 130 bombard without armor, because polarize isn't useless.

It isn't my word against them. it's my word and research and arguments against their declarations.

 

• You claim people are wrong for thinking magnetize is op.  You just claimed the person's wrong then agree with them in the same sentence. 

4 hours ago, tnccs215 said:

  5 hours ago, Soridian said:

 the rework has simply moved polarise being her OP skill to Magnetise while leaving polarise almost useless after a certain enemy level

4 hours ago, tnccs215 said:

My answe to this is a mixture of "that's wrong" and "and?"

The fact is, changing the "OP abiltiy" to Magnetise is, on one hand, wrong --Magnetize is only overpowered due to a bug

 

• You whip out tautology.  From your response it looks like you mean the logic formula and not the grammar form. However, you didn't disprove the guy's if/then. You just wound up stating " I think you're wrong therefore your argument is false."  But then twist back around agreeing with him anyway.  You say this power should fail...what else would someone call a power that fails to do the things it's designed to do?

4 hours ago, tnccs215 said:

Fact is, we are not supposed to last to have 400. we are not supposed to reach the enemy level cap. Powers should start to fail sooner than that. And Polarise is one of those powers-- and that's perfectly fine.

 

Look, I'm not going to do anymore homework for you.  Just take a breather and consider what you're claiming and how that can or can't be extrapolated. 

 

Edited July 7, 2016 by robbybe01234
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