Volt Rework Feedback [Post Update 18.13]

[Gurpgork]

3 hours ago, giovanniluca said:

It's kinda the best buffer and also dps or one of them, also you gotta compare stuff to other stuff to say if it's underpowered and Octavia brings stuff Volt offers but way better.

Octavia is preposterously overpowered. She does a ton of things at once and is far too good at them to justify having that many awesome things in her kit. 

It's unfair to use Octavia to say that Volt is underpowered, because Octavia is significantly above the bar for where any Warframe should be. 

[Vafthrudnir]

15 minutes ago, Gurpgork said:

It's unfair to use Octavia to say that Volt is underpowered, because Octavia is significantly above the bar for where any Warframe should be.

It's unfair but it's part of the game so either bring the rest to perform like her or cut her down. This said she's incredibly boring.

[(PSN)WINDMILEYNO]

53 minutes ago, Gurpgork said:

Octavia is preposterously overpowered. She does a ton of things at once and is far too good at them to justify having that many awesome things in her kit. 

It's unfair to use Octavia to say that Volt is underpowered, because Octavia is significantly above the bar for where any Warframe should be. 

Or maybe we could set that bar a little higher for the rest of the frames? Maybe get away from the idea that its wrong to not have awesome things in warframe kits? Say good bye to the era of bad abilities with poor design...? And make enemies better...?

[Vafthrudnir]

Besides am I wrong or Octavia first ability, mallet is the best first ability in the game besides Nidus' 1?

[GOLANX]

3 hours ago, (PS4)WINDMILEYNO said:

Or maybe we could set that bar a little higher for the rest of the frames? Maybe get away from the idea that its wrong to not have awesome things in warframe kits? Say good bye to the era of bad abilities with poor design...? And make enemies better...?

do you want DE to add invincible energy Leeches? they already teased it.. you want them to ruin the game with unfun and unfair enemies too fight, this incesant demand for power creep is leading us down a dark road that ends in everyone ragequitting because 99% of players dont have a warframe that can survive without energy, and you wont have any,

bringing down the nerf hammer on a poorly designed but OP frame is 100% preferable to the invincibility of the energy leeches you just asked for.

[(PSN)WINDMILEYNO]

1 hour ago, GOLANX said:

do you want DE to add invincible energy Leeches? they already teased it.. you want them to ruin the game with unfun and unfair enemies too fight, this incesant demand for power creep is leading us down a dark road that ends in everyone ragequitting because 99% of players dont have a warframe that can survive without energy, and you wont have any,

bringing down the nerf hammer on a poorly designed but OP frame is 100% preferable to the invincibility of the energy leeches you just asked for.

No, thats what i mean by poorly designed abilities. I might actually be delusional, because im talking about the people (DE) who thought super jump was acceptable as an ability on a warframe ONLY until parkour 2.0 made it irrelevant, and created an enemy called Nervos (look it up, its before my day, but just reading the text was truly horrifying). 

Eximus enemies having warframe abilities and doing it better than frames ---> snowglobe eximus being able to move with protection, arson eximus using Embers current firewall back when Embers fire wall was only just the ring and nothing else (an ability so worthless, it made super jump seem reasonable).

I mean, we still have terrible stuff like that, but anyways.

When i say better enemies, i mean something normal and reasonable by ordinary video game standards. Not DEs arson eximus napalm bombard with homing napalm missiles that say they can be shot down but cant and kill everything in 5 miles but other enemies when mind controlled or arctic eximus tech nullifiers with 20 sapper mine ospreys trailing behind and a corrupted heavy gunner in there because why not.

You know, normal difficulty, that doesnt require ypu to "play" the game by turning every enemy off with mass cc and allows abilities to actually be interesting, something like the comment about octavia (not sure if octavia is really all that interesting) or nidus, and nothing like Volts discharge (when it works), Novas anti matter drop, or Vaubans unlimited bastille. My personal harp against cc. Please ignore that last part.

[Vafthrudnir]

8 hours ago, GOLANX said:

do you want DE to add invincible energy Leeches

If they didn't deny energy gains MAYBE... and they die if the "carrier" dies too.

[BarneyD2]

As an avid Volt player since U7, I'm definitely happy with how much he has improved over time. These recent changes were a huge boost up for him in terms of usability for his Speed and Electric Shield abilities; less visual distortion was needed a long time ago! Having said that, Volt has always ever been "okay". He's never been particularly standout at anything except propelling himself at hypersonic speeds off a cliff. Him and Ember (though that's a whole other storty) both are still suffering from "old-frame syndrome". Very plain, element focused abilities that at one point may have gotten the job done, but no longer.

I'd like to preface this by saying, I am not a game developer, I've only dabbled in such things and I respect how difficult it is to balance such things, and how emotionally taxing it is to have millions of people telling you how to improve your game. These are simply my opinions.

I've noticed an interesting trend in that, after Excal got his rework, DE is seemingly very cautious of how and what they change. Going by the Mag and Saryn changes, it's clearly a bit too cautious. What's supposed to be an interesting gameplay change or an additional interactive mechanic can fall very short of the mark. However, new frames are so vastly different when compared to the *old* old ones, and they're much more intricate and, more to the point, powerful and unique. It certainly feels as though approaching this matter with a complete ability overhaul instead of just trying to make current abilities better with reworks.

Discharge is really quite disappointing, to the point where you only use it for the old Overload augment to give everyone a ton of overshields. Additionally, for his shield, isn't it enough to reduce the area and have an energy drain? Why does it make volt SLOWER? His whole thing is supposed to be speed and electricity, yet he's only got the average base sprint speed of 1.0.

I wish they'd give him a proper passive, too, perhaps one that increases his jogging and sprint speed by default. 1000 additional damage that doesn't scale on anything is useless at about level 35-ish, especially given that to reach that cap, you have to *not hit anything including the environment*. I'll admit there are even worse passives out there but this is certainly still trash.

Having said that, Speed is still decent and Shock is acceptable, I suppose, but it's a pretty boring cc ability that doesn't always cc, and does so for comparitively short times. It also has very limited interactivity with the rest of his kit. Shield still blocks everything for its whole duration without being able to get destroyed early. DE have needed several iterations to get warframes to a truly good spot and I have faith they'll achieve this with Volt. Some first steps would be a decent passive (looking at the most recent new warframes, the ones that older frames have are laughable at best), and maybe removing the energy drain per metre and slow of his picked up shield.

Not sure how I would change Discharge, though. Perhaps going back to calling it Overload and having it actually be an overload of power; Volt could sacrifice his energy to gain boosted stats and/or improved abilities, kind of how Harrow channels Thurible, or how Inaros channels Scarab Swarm (only for energy), and having it last for a specific duration before Volt "burns out". Activation of it would create a Discharge that knocks enemies back and down for a few seconds, and Volt gets a persistent electrifying aura around him (which could be purely for visual indication). Maybe also something cool like turning Shock into a channelled laser beam for its duration or something.

Volt could definitely do with some sprucing up.

[Vafthrudnir]

12 minutes ago, BarneyD2 said:

DE is seemingly very cautious of how and what they change

If they were cautious they wouldn't have released Octavia and Chromatic Blade Augment.

Also the troll augment for Titania, Mag, Volt, and Chroma.

Edited July 26, 2017 by giovanniluca

[Ikusias]

They are uite idiosincrasic in their behaviour, ofthen overnerfing what was fine as is (Nidus damnit!) and much more ofthen leaving what was clearly broken and overpowered be beyond any possible good reason (see the tonkor and self damage sheaningans in general or the nullifiers)

[KiroTheTraveler]

@giovanniluca  still bringing the good fight. One of our last few fighters I suppose. 

Though it might be sad that they probably won't look at him unless they do something like Volt Umbra

[Vafthrudnir]

8 hours ago, CaptainStrawberry said:

Though it might be sad that they probably won't look at him unless they do something like Volt Umbra

They just have to get through the other failures, what pisses me is that they just left the "rework" and moved on, besides Volt received so low changes that it's not even a rework.

[BarneyD2]

I'm sure they'll figure it out eventually; I just hope they do it relatively soon and not Soon™.

[KiroTheTraveler]

Feedback

-Shock doesn't scale above level 35

[Vafthrudnir]

Buff Volt so they can speedrun good.

Edited July 28, 2017 by giovanniluca

[Music4Therapy]

I'm wondering what other players are doing that is causing them to struggle so much to utilize what is one of the more loaded frames in the game. I have several builds on my Volt, Max Speed... General Purpose w/ Riot Shield... etc..

I'd be willing to hop into a match in Mot to show how I utilize his kit to great effect. I strongly believe he scales incredibly well in endless missions with Survival being one of his strongest suits (which is why I proposed Mot) and is amazing at speed running through non-endless content.

[Mudfam]

17 minutes ago, Music4Therapy said:

I'm wondering what other players are doing that is causing them to struggle so much to utilize what is one of the more loaded frames in the game. I have several builds on my Volt, Max Speed... General Purpose w/ Riot Shield... etc..

I'd be willing to hop into a match in Mot to show how I utilize his kit to great effect. I strongly believe he scales incredibly well in endless missions with Survival being one of his strongest suits (which is why I proposed Mot) and is amazing at speed running through non-endless content.

I can't speak for others, but for me it's not a matter of struggling but of wasted potential.

Volt is one of my absolute favourite frames, at least in theory. He has a really fun set of abilities and synergies, but so much of this doesn't actually work or do anything useful, or is subject to completely pointless limitations.

Shock is hugely inconsistent.

Speed is fine, if a little short in duration.

Shields have too many downsides to being carried.

Shocking shields is utterly useless. Elec proc please.

Discharge is a dysfunctional mess. Unreliable and inconsistent CC that will get you killed when you might need it. I never touch this, wish I had some reason to once in a while.

Volt works, he does specific things well, but this doesn't mean we should ignore glaring flaws that if corrected could make him more fun to play. Making something so crippled and useless that you never use it is not a good way of balancing something, what's the point of having it at all then?

[Vafthrudnir]

On 2/8/2017 at 2:00 PM, Mudfam said:

Shock is hugely inconsistent.

Speed is fine, if a little short in duration.

Shields have too many downsides to being carried.

Shocking shields is utterly useless. Elec proc please.

Discharge is a dysfunctional mess. Unreliable and inconsistent CC that will get you killed when you might need it. I never touch this, wish I had some reason to once in a while.

You forgot that passive is unusable and capped.

[GeometricBison]

Why do you guys think that when a frame gets a rework, DE just decides that the frame is good where it is? Like, they don't listen to the community feedback and tweak some stuff accordingly, they just sort of hit it and quit it. The only time I can think of when they didn't do that was with Oberon, and he turned out much much better, so you'd think they'd have done it from the very beginning.

[Cytobel]

Oh, look!  Hydroid got the charged ability mechanic Volt had recommended for him (in this very thread).

Seems like it's doing bloody well all for Hydroid, and it feels like a massive flavor fail to me personally.

[Vafthrudnir]

1 hour ago, Cytobel said:

Oh, look!  Hydroid got the charged ability mechanic Volt had recommended for him (in this very thread).

Seems like it's doing bloody well all for Hydroid, and it feels like a massive flavor fail to me personally.

It goes well but they nerfed the base abilities so he sucks even more than before at some aspects.

Like uncharged 4 has 5 m radius and q the same or something like that.

Also pool is smaller and he still does not mark for loots so hydro still sucks like Volt but he got a small + I guess.

Oh and now he needs way more energy and still his 1 has no innate corrosive proc.

Edited August 12, 2017 by giovanniluca

[Cytobel]

I could rant about other 'Frames here, but I feel like focusing on Volt is the main thing this thread was about.

From that perspective, I have to wonder if DE is even capable of improving 'Fames without addressing basic issues in the skillset.  Adding passives SOMETIMES helped 'Frames, buffing base stats can do good things, and of course focusing on QoL soothes ruffled feathers.  Even so, if something doesn't work with the game's current model, it STILL doesn't work when you polish it a bit.

Lets mention RNG here.  Shock (just before the rework) was very nearly perfect for my needs.  It had good range, hit quite a few targets, and the electricity procs could make an entire group do the Harlem Shake when I really needed enough time to cast ES.  It was good panic utility and somewhat tolerable pocket CC.  After the rework it had some sort of RNG logic applied (or something), and now it not only is almost impossible to aim, but it often targets corpses over living foes (wasting potential chaining).  The fact is that it chains from Volt's hand, not the first impact, and it seems to have fewer bounces to boot.  The lack of consistancy here hurts individual casts of Shock, making it critical to build Efficiency (especially if Capacitance is in your build, but that's a seperate issue).

Lets talk about consistancy.  Volt's skills that ARE consistant are Speed and Electric Shield.  Speed is consistantly too short, buffs the team more than you (leaving you in the dust because of low sprint speed and impatient speedrunners*), and does precious little to improve your potential for survival without utilizing Shocking Speed.  I get that "gotta go fast" makes you a bit harder to hit, but enemies shoot what they can see, and that means you when you're in hte rear of the pack.  Electric Shield is both consistant and wonderful, so long as you don't try to carry it.  If you do, you're burning energy, slowing yourself, and gaining only a narrow arc of protection for your efforts, all the while being unable to use long guns (which you may want to utilize, depending on the situation).  Basically, Riot Shield works AGAINST Volt at LEAST as much for him, and thus is of inconsistant utility.

Croud Control is a popular topic, so lets mention that Volt's options here are a VERY brief stun from Shock, possible Shocking Speed (for the same stun, but here it works due to the fact that you're moving quickly), and Discharge.  That last one is a problem for many of us who Volt, because inconsistant timing on lockdown means enemies may break out WELL before we think they should, and the suprise can be lethal.  Against high-level Corpus it's particularly bad, and I have seen on NUMEROUS occasions Corpus foes break out BEFORE I can even finish my animation.  Faction specific, but self CC-ing is VERY BAD.

Survivability is another major point, and here I have more bad news:  Volt ain't so good here either.  Capacitance is a band-aid mod that may help, but until Shield Gating happens (and we see how that either works or doesn't) I won't say it's THAT good.  Mind you, I run Capacitance over all other augments (and over Redirection) because it helps the team as well as myself.  Between Capacitance and 2 FULL stacks of Arcane Barrier I'm much better off for most content (including Sorties), but saying it takes a specific Augment, 20 Arcanes, and certain build logic to mitigate a 'Frame's squishiness is NOT a good indicator of durability.  Fact is, CC is how he lives, and we've already mentioned how he's not particularly well off there.

As for team utility (something that's come up) he's actually not too bad.  He has a buff, his shield can help others with critical damage (and is REDICULOUS with a Harrow in group), he can iniate fights and break formations (sort of) with Riot Shield, Electric Shield makes him a VERY good defender, he has a degree of CC, and he does SOME damage.  In fact, with a bit of QoL lovin' I think he'd be a better "all 'rounder" than any other 'Frame.  Unfortunately, he has to compete with VERY rediculous 'Frames for this title, and he has to use Electricity as his base damage element, so that's also a problem.

Do I still play the crap out of Volt?  Yes I do.  Is he EVER a better choice for anything?  Well, yeah, he's good at getting Ayatans in Maroo missions (as if that's a thing that's hard), and he's rather good in Solo play.  He's pretty solid in Endless too, but I feel as if there are other valid choices I see doing more on their own AND for a team.  I guess he's an "odd-man-out" 'Frame, where a skilled player can really suprise others with their skill, but not a 'Frame that's worth the investment of time and energy he takes to get there for most people.  He's waaaay too niche, and not even the best in whatever niche he's being crammed into.

Do I still love my Volt?  Yes.  Yes, I do, but I get the feeling there's DAMN few of us who do, and that DE most DEFINITELY does not.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

*I know that you can add mods to make Volt move faster.  Also, being able to add mods to make Volt better is CORE to Warframe, and not to be scorned.  That said, when you are being left behind, enemies target you (obviously).  This negatively impacts a 'Frame which should NEVER be the one eating all the bullets.  Realistically, it's a small problem that snowballs quickly into something far more serious.

[Cryone]

On 25.07.2017 at 4:45 PM, FitzSimmons said:

wrong, it does nothing if u only test it against armored enemies, it deals a lot of dmg against other factions with no armor. 

sure, if you are only Venus player. 

[Cryone]

Anyway, from the deeps to the skies. Hydroid rework is out (4 times changes), nice feedbacks, TOP DPS FRAME ecc. That's all. Yeah. I just a bit envy, little bit.....very little. 

18+

Spoiler

We don't need no water let the @&#(&*@#$# burn. Burn @&#(&*@#$# burn 

 

 

Edited August 18, 2017 by Cryone

[Ikusias]

The salt is real considering how much they mised the target with Volt