Volt Rework Feedback [Post Update 18.13]

[(PSN)Silverback73]

1 hour ago, Mudfam said:

As I pointed out in another thread, as it is volt's passive is actually detrimental to his ult, because the damage is capped anyway and adding damage from the passive only results in enemies breaking free from the CC faster. How backwards is that?

The way the damage cap works on volt's ult is just completely broken. You can't actually increase the duration in any way, casting it on crowds that link to eachother doesn't increase the damage because it's capped but only reduces the duration and his passive only decreases the duration further. How this got past the people designing it I really don't know.

I quite like the general idea of the OP, I don't have particularly high hopes for something like this happening though. Getting a fix for the utterly broken ult would be a start :/

Range/Duration build with negative power strength.

 

A minor speed boosting helps squadmates without disrupting their mechanics.

Shields last longer.

And his ult is a Map-wide cc with legs against armored targets.

Lock them down and then use passive-boosted slash status/viral/toxin builds to bypass enemy defenses as they dance and crush them.

 

I recommend the Lesion.

Edited May 10, 2017 by (PS4)Silverback73

[StabbyTentacles]

Discharge... DE really, really?

Replace Discharge with Juiced, you're welcome.

[Mudfam]

10 hours ago, (PS4)Silverback73 said:

Range/Duration build with negative power strength.

 

Modding power strength up or down has no effect as the damage cap scales with it too. Duration does nothing, it's just a fixed amount of ticks of damage towards the cap. Increasing range = more enemies breaking eachother free by reaching the damage cap faster.

There is no way to mod this ability, it's just broken.

I really want to like Volt, and I still play him sometimes, but he's just a walking speed a buff with a shield that's neat, but very rarely useful and outclassed by Frost's bubble (not to mention his other abiities).

This damage cap mechanic needs to be fixed. Maybe the ability needs to be tweaked in more ways, but it needs to be affected by mods and work properly on crowds - which is clearly what it's supposed to do.

Edited May 10, 2017 by Mudfam

[Xriborg]

I wouldn't mind something different entirely. Something simple but fun, like an innate version of the retribution mod. Or perhaps he could gain energy when hit by electric damage?

[(PSN)Silverback73]

12 hours ago, Mudfam said:

Modding power strength up or down has no effect as the damage cap scales with it too. Duration does nothing, it's just a fixed amount of ticks of damage towards the cap. Increasing range = more enemies breaking eachother free by reaching the damage cap faster.

There is no way to mod this ability, it's just broken.

I really want to like Volt, and I still play him sometimes, but he's just a walking speed a buff with a shield that's neat, but very rarely useful and outclassed by Frost's bubble (not to mention his other abiities).

This damage cap mechanic needs to be fixed. Maybe the ability needs to be tweaked in more ways, but it needs to be affected by mods and work properly on crowds - which is clearly what it's supposed to do.

Yes, true.

Here is what many people miss:

1.  Map-wide CC is obviously best against Grineer as armor maxxes out duration ticks.  So to a degree it's situational like old Mag used to be with Corpus.

2.  Here is the subtlety in the range/duration/efficiency build I use:

Use Capacitance at Unranked level.  Range hits so many targets that you will cap out your Overshields anyway.

Use the points to strengthen Volt's other mods.  Once you advance beyond mid-game , there is a myriad of ways to keep his energy up through build-focus combinations.  

You have to build him as a weapon augment frame:

CC makes for higher hit rates due to stationary targets.  And protects him from incoming fire.

His passive adds electrical damage.

His shields add CRIT % and electrical damage.  And protects him.

Shock, when working correctly, is a one-handed action stealth reload with stun...that protects him.

It's a good build for late-game content.

 

 

 

[Mudfam]

9 hours ago, (PS4)Silverback73 said:

Yes, true.

Here is what many people miss:

1.  Map-wide CC is obviously best against Grineer as armor maxxes out duration ticks.  So to a degree it's situational like old Mag used to be with Corpus.

2.  Here is the subtlety in the range/duration/efficiency build I use:

Use Capacitance at Unranked level.  Range hits so many targets that you will cap out your Overshields anyway.

Use the points to strengthen Volt's other mods.  Once you advance beyond mid-game , there is a myriad of ways to keep his energy up through build-focus combinations.  

You have to build him as a weapon augment frame:

CC makes for higher hit rates due to stationary targets.  And protects him from incoming fire.

His passive adds electrical damage.

His shields add CRIT % and electrical damage.  And protects him.

Shock, when working correctly, is a one-handed action stealth reload with stun...that protects him.

It's a good build for late-game content.

Yes, when all enemies are heavily armoured you get good CC out of the ability. This is circumstantial, and when these enemies actually matter I make sure they don't have armour anyway.

The CC from this ability is just inconsistent and unreliable at best. You might barely have enough time to reload your weapon, let alone hack a console or revive someone,  before someone kills you.

Volt's other abilities are all fine. I've taken him into runs lasting several hours and used all 3. His ultimate though is just a huge waste of energy. It just gets you killed because it doesn't do what it's supposed to do. 100 energy and long ground bound casting animation that leaves you completely vulnerable for almost as long as it can CC.

I'm not asking for this to be some OP ability, just something that doesn't utterly suck and might actually be worth using on occasion, as well as affected by the mods you put on your frame lol. It is indisputably extremely weak and mechanically broken, and this is his ultimate!

[FitzSimmons]

On 10/05/2017 at 5:51 AM, Mudfam said:

 

As I pointed out in another thread, as it is volt's passive is actually detrimental to his ult, because the damage is capped anyway and adding damage from the passive only results in enemies breaking free from the CC faster.

 

maybe i forgot to mention this but the capacitor counter also increase all aspects in discharge including damage cap

[FitzSimmons]

14 hours ago, Mudfam said:

Yes, when all enemies are heavily armoured you get good CC out of the ability. This is circumstantial, and when these enemies actually matter I make sure they don't have armour anyway.

well its like the old mag, circumstantial, which is only good when there is enemies with shield to use shield polarize

[FitzSimmons]

On 09/05/2017 at 9:23 PM, (PS4)WINDMILEYNO said:

Make a new awesome electrical frame called Amp

lol yea, rather than complain about volt description, better to complain on his name.

Edited May 12, 2017 by FitzSimmons

[Mudfam]

8 hours ago, FitzSimmons said:

well its like the old mag, circumstantial, which is only good when there is enemies with shield to use shield polarize

Magnetise was at least extremely powerful. Unlike shields, armour is something you need to remove to get around broken scaling. When mag was reworked she was in fact changed to deal with both shields and armour (though poorly).

For me at least, this is a circumstance that doesn't really exist when I would need it to. Also all it takes is just one enemy without armour and you're dead. There is no dependable CC here.

Most of the time, duration has no effect on this ability.

Also, the fact remains that enemies shocking eachother is clearly supposed to be a good thing, but it isn't. It doesn't increase damage, as it sounds like it should, and it break the CC aspect of the ability (even against armour unless it's quite high).

The damage cap mechanic should be removed. If the ability is considered too powerful then simply reduce the damage and/or duration, but let it behave consistently and predictably, be affected my mods and its main selling point become actually beneficial rather than detrimental.

[KaeseSchnitte]

To iterate on what I said, I definitely think that Volt is very strong at the moment, but his kit also got some weird or useless parts. His passive for example has almost no effect on anything and the cap on Discharge makes it unreliable. I also think that Shock, despite its potential as one-handed ability, is pretty weak and will be even weaker if Discharge has its cap removed. I tried to address all those little issues in my suggestion, while keeping Volt's effectiveness relatively the same. The only part of my suggestion that could come out as too strong would be Discharge, if the stun lasts too long. But I trust the devs to find a balance to make Discharge's duration predictable, but the ability as a whole not too strong.

Additionally to fixing those issues, I've proposed more synergies, which I think would not make Volt particularly stronger, but more fun to play.

Either way, I've updated my initial post by refining some rough endges and updating the presentation. If you have ideas on how to imrpove my suggestions, I'd like to hear it.

The post I'm referring to.

Edited May 14, 2017 by KaeseSchnitte
Merge -.-

[Mudfam]

I think Volt is mostly fine and I would refrain from asking for complex and substantial changes. There is no incentive for DE to invest significant time in difficult but superficial changes that aren't going to grab anyone's attention. I would still hope that some basic fixing and balancing can be done if the community is vocal about it.

Personally I just want an ultimate that doesn't make me cringe at its futility every time I use it.

We're getting overwhelmed! Everyone stop shooting me, I'm doing my big move now... Zzzzzzzzzzaaaaaaaaaagwablawowowowowow!

But it's not a badly coreographed Hollywood film and seconds later someone kills Volt with a butcher knife while he's still trying to reload his weapon.

This power just needs to behave more consistently. It has confusing and conflicting mechanics that make it entirely unreliable. It's not worth the energy, the time and the danger it puts you in, because it doesn't guarantee a useful result, you're always better off doing something else that you know will work.

At the absolute very least enemies shocking eachother should not contribute to the damage cap. This turns a supposed big feature into a 100% detrimental effect, allowing some enemies to break free almost instantly with no benefits.

Preferably the damage cap mechanic would be removed or replaced, and balanced accordingly. In its current form it simply breaks the duration and "tesla coil" mechanics of the ability entirely.

[MudShadow]

They're not going to make any changes to VOLT, he is one of the best designed frames in the game at the moment. 

[(PSN)CommanderC2121]

love these ideas. speed volt is one of my favorite ways to place wf. Plz de

[(PSN)CaptainIMalik]

On 2017-5-12 at 2:39 AM, FitzSimmons said:

lol yea, rather than complain about volt description, better to complain on his name.

I haven't heard of them changing a frames name this late in the game. Besides, I hardly think it matters. 

We don't know exactly to what extent how the Orokin made Volt specifically. Maybe he can make current? But I wouldn't think DE would think that far in terms of Science. 

Edited May 13, 2017 by (PS4)CaptainIMalik

[KaeseSchnitte]

On 13.5.2017 at 4:18 PM, MudShadow said:

They're not going to make any changes to VOLT, he is one of the best designed frames in the game at the moment. 

I'm not saying Volt is badly designed. In fact, I have only proposed changes that would build upon what Volt already does. Not a single mechanic would get replaced or removed.

On 13.5.2017 at 1:42 PM, Mudfam said:

I think Volt is mostly fine and I would refrain from asking for complex and substantial changes. There is no incentive for DE to invest significant time in difficult but superficial changes that aren't going to grab anyone's attention. I would still hope that some basic fixing and balancing can be done if the community is vocal about it.

Personally I just want an ultimate that doesn't make me cringe at its futility every time I use it.

We're getting overwhelmed! Everyone stop shooting me, I'm doing my big move now... Zzzzzzzzzzaaaaaaaaaagwablawowowowowow!

But it's not a badly coreographed Hollywood film and seconds later someone kills Volt with a butcher knife while he's still trying to reload his weapon.

This power just needs to behave more consistently. It has confusing and conflicting mechanics that make it entirely unreliable. It's not worth the energy, the time and the danger it puts you in, because it doesn't guarantee a useful result, you're always better off doing something else that you know will work.

At the absolute very least enemies shocking eachother should not contribute to the damage cap. This turns a supposed big feature into a 100% detrimental effect, allowing some enemies to break free almost instantly with no benefits.

Preferably the damage cap mechanic would be removed or replaced, and balanced accordingly. In its current form it simply breaks the duration and "tesla coil" mechanics of the ability entirely.

You are probably right that they will most likely not just implement everything I am proposing, however that doesn't stop me from suggesting it anyways.

I've suggested changes that would make Volt more consistent and then some synergies for fun on top of that.

 

The post I'm referring to.

Edited May 14, 2017 by KaeseSchnitte
Merge -.-

[(PSN)CaptainIMalik]

On 5/13/2017 at 8:26 PM, (PS4)CommanderC2121 said:

love these ideas. speed volt is one of my favorite ways to place wf. Plz de

DE please upgrade his sprint speed. Even Nezha has a good sprint speed. 

[(XBOX)CarpeNoctem365]

On 5/13/2017 at 10:18 AM, MudShadow said:

They're not going to make any changes to VOLT, he is one of the best designed frames in the game at the moment. 

his riot shield has too many downsides (energy drain, too small, hinders movement speed, hinders jumping), his discharge stuns are inconsistent, his speed is matched by an easier, less costly nezha build, his 1 is ok, his passive is useless. And can we talk about how the electricity frame does no damage? Funny, right?

Edited May 18, 2017 by (XB1)CarpeNoctem365

[(PSN)WINDMILEYNO]

On what planet is volt the most well designed frame? Did someone get nerfed?

Oh wait (monotone red eye, dry eye drop commercial voice), i forgot that warframes are only a means to an end, as the true goal of this game is to get cool weapons which will help carry you through missions, and powers only assist you in this endeavor. Its why crowd control is the only acceptable use for a warframe ability, any ability that does anything else does nothing at all. Because weapons in this game coupled with augments that rip off already existing powers do more than any warframe could ever hope to do. 

 

[(PSN)WINDMILEYNO]

Its interesting....i knew there were oberon mains, but i didnt know he was that much more popular than volt. This post has been up over half a year with 86 pages. Oberon post barely a month....100 pages...

 

[MudShadow]

3 hours ago, (Xbox One)CarpeNoctem365 said:

his riot shield has too many downsides (energy drain, too small, hinders movement speed, hinders jumping), his discharge stuns are inconsistent, his speed is matched by an easier, less costly nezha build, his 1 is ok, his passive is useless. And can we talk about how the electricity frame does no damage? Funny, right?

Volt pretty much has everything.

Defence(shield). Which can tank unlimited damage based solely on duration (scales infinitely).

Utility. Speed augment buffs the entire group, increases attack speed of melee weapons and the reload speed of range weapons. There's also Shock Trooper and Capacitance which further buffs the group.

Damage. Shield augments increases the damage of all range weapons. +50% electric damage (and can be stacked up to +200% or more) as well as adding +200% crit damage on top. His "4" ability does AOE dmg (enough damage to clear an entire room up to about level 60 with just one button press). Speed buff augments the melee swing speed which makes him the best melee frame in the game when combined with Naramon.

CC. His "1" and "4" can stun enemies for long periods of time. ENough time for his group to easily clean up.

 

What exactly does he need buffed? he's the most well rounded frame in the game.  And can Nezha's speed buff swing a Galatine Prime five times a second? no.. Why even compare Nezha's run speed to Volts "speed buff" ability. That is a joke.

Edited May 18, 2017 by MudShadow

[Kotsender_Quasimir]

1 hour ago, (PS4)WINDMILEYNO said:

Its interesting....i knew there were oberon mains, but i didnt know he was that much more popular than volt. This post has been up over half a year with 86 pages. Oberon post barely a month....100 pages...

i don't believe that has anything to do with popularity but rather with more people feeling volt being well balanced than oberon. because people mostly provide feedback to get things changed to what they think could be better.

33 minutes ago, MudShadow said:

he's the most well rounded frame in the game.

while i also think there still are rough edges to be attended to (especially in the qol department): yes.

Edited May 18, 2017 by Kotsender_Quasimir

[KaeseSchnitte]

14 hours ago, (Xbox One)CarpeNoctem365 said:

his riot shield has too many downsides (energy drain, too small, hinders movement speed, hinders jumping), his discharge stuns are inconsistent, his speed is matched by an easier, less costly nezha build, his 1 is ok, his passive is useless. And can we talk about how the electricity frame does no damage? Funny, right?

I'd actually say it's the opposite. The riot shield is already pretty good, it could use some more tweaks, but other than that it is already a solid ability. Discharge is held back by its cap, but not too much if you use a low-power build. Speed has more perks than Nezha's ability, so it's fine in that regard. Shock on the other hand is pretty pointless and will become even more pointless once Discharge has its cap removed. The only perk of Shock is that it's one handed. The passive currently is useless, but that doesn't stop Volt from being a pretty potent all-rounder.

My Suggestion

 

Edited May 19, 2017 by KaeseSchnitte

[Mudfam]

I completely agree that in terms of design Volt is one of the best frames in the game. That's why it's such a shame that his implemenation is so bad.

Also, regarding damage, with how scaling works in this game, abilities that do flat damage have no place. There is no point in an ability that does damage which becomes completely insignificant at higher levels. This is utterly worthless.

Shock. This should be a perfectly fine 1, but it's unreliable. Possibly this is an issue with electric procs, but enemies hit are stunned for very random amounts of time, sometimes for only the briefest instant, and sometimes not at all.

Speed. This actually works as advertised! It makes you go fast and everyone likes that. I'd say this is the main reason why most people play Volt.

Shield. Very cool ability. Not a very reliable defence due to its limited size and being completely ignored by weapons with punch-through, but it certainly has it perks. The synergy with 1 is sadly useless, if it applied a status proc it might have a use.

Discharge. This is the most misleading and possibly the worst ultimate in the game. Perhaps due to a bug, densely packed enemies are not even stunned for 4 seconds. The ability's main feature only works against it - enemies help eachother break free. It's like someone designed a great ability and then someone else roughly slapped a cap on it without understanding how it completely destroyed all its mechanics.

There's a pattern with Volt's 1, 3 and 4 of leading you into a false sense of security. If you're hoping to CC or defend when your life depends on it, which is when you should, it's quite likely to backfire. The only thing Volt needs is more dependable results from his abilities, I need to know what the ability is going to do, not randomly die or fail the mission because it didn't work.

[Vafthrudnir]

13 hours ago, (PS4)WINDMILEYNO said:

 

Its interesting....i knew there were oberon mains, but i didnt know he was that much more popular than volt. This post has been up over half a year with 86 pages. Oberon post barely a month....100 pages...

 

It's because people had a chance at Oberon hoping it was good, Volt has a bad reputation as frame by ages and it's ignored. The popularity is so low.