Volt Rework Feedback [Post Update 18.13]

[IceColdHawk]

2 minutes ago, Kotsender_Quasimir said:

kinda suprised not more people miss the shield/gun synergies tbqh...)

You mean the OMGWTFBBQ crits ;)

[Kotsender_Quasimir]

naaaah, not the broken multiplier, that was crazy op. i mean beam extension on continuous guns for example. or no fall off with shotguns.

Edited June 2, 2016 by Kotsender_Quasimir

[Ohmlink]

I'll add my tidbit:

Riot Shield

As others have stated riot shield has too many downsides to be a valid option. Energy drain is simply too high to be used longer than a few seconds the fact that we have other abilities that are allowed full god mode while also being more efficient seems silly to me personally.

When picking up the shield the time should either pause or stop energy drain, there is no need for both and it simply makes the skill affected by too many things.

Discharge

As others have stated I find Discharge to be a tad inconsistent.

I did my testing in the Similicrum on Level 40 enemies with three different types.

First test was against Corrupted Heavy Gunners, At level 40 the individual damage ticks where not exactly impressive typically hangin around 46 or so damage but in large groups you would see these ticks about 8 to 10 times a second which was able to go on for the full duration of the skill and also took about roughly a quarter of the enemies health which I don't find to be that bad honestly.

Second test was against Corrupted Crewmen. The damage from the tesla coil ticks were pretty good at 260 per hit. meaning a fair portion were dying simply from one cast but the ones that didn't die outright were released from the CC pretty quickly. The skills damage was not an issue here simply the fact it let enemies go once it hit the health cap.

Third test was against Corrupted Lancers. The damage output and duration were a lot like the first test due to the armor of the target.

My conclusion is that there needs to be a few refinements to Discharge. I personally think it is an improvement over Overload as it typically does more damage while also providing CC.

The main issue I believe is how the health cap afffects CC. I think adding a small window of a few seconds in the beginning of the skill where the amount of damage dealt increases the health cap of the tesla coils. Simliar to the mechanics on Frosts Globe and Rhino's Ironskin. I feel this would allow high power strength builds to get better milage out of Discharge as an offensive skill.

Another solution when the health cap is reached the target simply does not receive damage and they are still held in place by Discharge. So if you do mange to get a stellar cast your enemies aren't released in a few seconds.

 

My build was the basic neutral build with no corrupted mods nor primed mods. I wanted it to be as vanllia as possible.

[(PSN)WINDMILEYNO]

What if DE is worried about power teams? What if Volt can be used to lock down maps like Mirage could, and that's why they allow enemies to pop out of the stun from discharge...?

 

[YagoXiten]

19 minutes ago, (PS4)WINDMILEYNO said:

What if DE is worried about power teams? What if Volt can be used to lock down maps like Mirage could, and that's why they allow enemies to pop out of the stun from discharge...?

 

With Radial Blind, Prism, Radial (Irradiating) Disarm, Chaos, Rhino Stomp, Molecular Prime...and so many other abilities being able to do that rather well, I don't think that's the issue.

I'm of the opinion that they wanted the damage to be the highlight of the power, as it does do insane damage for an ability, with some respectable CC attached, similar to Frost's Avalanche, but it is tuned such that it does not do enough damage to be impactful on all targets during mid and end game missions and the CC can also end on many enemies before you're even free of the casting animation.

 

32 minutes ago, Ohmlink said:

I'll add my tidbit:

Riot Shield

As others have stated riot shield has too many downsides to be a valid option. Energy drain is simply too high to be used longer than a few seconds the fact that we have other abilities that are allowed full god mode while also being more efficient seems silly to me personally.

When picking up the shield the time should either pause or stop energy drain, there is no need for both and it simply makes the skill affected by too many things.

 

Another solution when the health cap is reached the target simply does not receive damage and they are still held in place by Discharge. So if you do mange to get a stellar cast your enemies aren't released in a few seconds.

 

My build was the basic neutral build with no corrupted mods nor primed mods. I wanted it to be as vanllia as possible.

It definitely is somewhat silly. Even if they're intending to remove such 'god mode' abilities so that they can rebalance the damage system so that combat is less 'you have one second to do or die', and more of a skill based system with steady and calculated give and take, Volt's Electric Shield would still be balanced without all the restrictions and the huge cost.


The neutral build with no corrupted mods is a very powerful build option, and one I generally endorse. Volt, however, is not like Equinox, Ivara, Trinity, etc. and has a hard time getting away with that, which is a shame, because it'd be quite nice if he could. Though his base energy costs are low (25/25/50/100) compared to the usual (25/50/75/100), he generally has to make liberal use of Shock and Electric Shield, wants 100% uptime on Speed, and needs to be able to afford the occasional Discharge. This greatly cuts into his Energy pool, and is made even worse by the very low base duration on Speed, the absurd cost of picking up Electric Shield. It's worse still if you want to run a melee Volt, who wants to boost his Strength to keep up with other DPS boosting abilities like Vex Armor...You end up having to run Corrupted mods just to patch up his abilities' base values.

[EnderDDT]

TL/DR version of this thread. I went through all 23 pages worth and these are the things that keep coming up. If it seems like this post is long and has a lot in it, than understand that this is part of the reason why there are 23 pages worth and counting.

There are some things that absolutely need to be fixed, listed by ability. These first things are what people are up in arms about, the things that are such glaring issues that they can't/shouldn't be ignored. These almost certainly should be addressed immediately, even if only to have DE give some sort of reasoning for why these decisions were made.

1. Volt's speed pickup is way too hard for people to opt-into. Some people have tried finding ways to make the current opt-in method work by recasting, therefore making it easier to drop the buff in hard to avoid areas like doorways (to make it easier to place the buff pickup or, more cynically, to force others to pick it up), but that avoids the real issue of people not wanting the buff.  Can we PLEASE try an opt-out option to see if that works first? People have suggested backfliping, rolling, aiming/defending/right-clicking, standing still, even a menu option; all are good options and there are others that could be used too. My favorite ideas are rolling to keep things standard with our other opt-out (limbo) or aiming/defending/right-clicking as it is so easy and isn't something you are likely to do while taking advantage of speed's bonuses.

2. Energy Shield's "riot shield" option has WAY too many and too destructive downsides. It isn't even all that strong compared to a lot of other things in the game (many lists were made). The drain per second needs to be MASSIVELY reduced, the drain over distance completely removed, and the restrictions on speed and weapons need dealt with as well. The weapon restriction is more annoying to the ranged players while the speed restriction is more annoying for the melee players, so leaving either is going to make someone upset when they don't have to be. I have never seen any player base so unified as players are against the restrictions on this one ability (I'm not sure what to think about THAT).

3. The damage cap NEEDS to be removed on his #4 ability. It creates too many horrible interactions. Yes, even if this requires reducing the damage per tick to compensate. You can't mod for duration because the cap is hit. Luring enemy units together just means they break out more quickly without taking any extra damage. The damage still becomes worthless end-game. Random things popping out at different times makes it unreliable. All this because of a damage cap. Not everyone's complaints about this were focused on the cap since most just saw the problems and had no idea why they were happening, but a lot of others focused right down to this issue.

4. The Energy Shield limit of 4 is way too limiting, especially considering what it has to compare to (Snow Globe, mainly). 8 or 10 is what people generally have agreed is a good number for those who need them, but no limit is more popular. If there is some reason why this is an issue otherwise, then deal with that issue rather than doing this. This limit not only prevents creative use of the shields but also hinders them from doing a passable job at what even what 2 snow globes can do. The melee players don't seem to care as much about the restriction, but the ranged, team-oriented, and creative play-style people very much do.

There are some things that need fixed but are not absolutely brokenly "people are constantly rehashing them angrily" issues that the ones above most definitely are.  These are more "people are constantly rehashing them politely" issues:

1. Volt's speed needs to apply immediately. This delay for no reason is just a nerf and is frustrating the entire use of the skill.

2. Set up Volt's PoV change during Speed as an option. Some people really liked it and would like to have it back while still acknowledging and wanting to not have it be a problem for those who had vertigo issues.

3. Volt's shields should not go away when he dies. Other frame's static abilities don't just disappear when the frame falls, and this is doubly important for a team oriented defensive ability. It forces Volt to not even TRY to do anything other than hide behind his shield if he is using it for team use. Either that or he just does not use them for team oriented use in the first place.

4. The interaction of his #1 shock with his Electric Shield needs to have an electric proc rather than a simple damage proc. Even if this is only one time per enemy and even if it replaces the damage altogether. It would make the ability combination useful and is what everyone already expects till they find out it doesn't actually work.

5. Let Volt use his #4 Discharge midair, or let him fire his #4 ability from range. Forcing Volt to get on the ground in the middle of a group of enemies to use his ability is not something he can survive at high levels. No, not even with his riot shield.

6. Change the name of "Discharge" to something less medical sounding. "Static Discharge" is one good option, or just revert to "Overload".

And finally, issues that have come up but don't fall into the above categories of subjective urgency.

1. No base speed buff for what is generally treated as the go-to frame for going fast? There was some surprise about that.

2. Volt's passive is useless end game. It is a little bit of a letdown to some.

3. Volt's passive tries to force him onto the ground, despite this being such a parkour heavy game.

4. Shock is still relatively under powered and inconsistently inconsistent, but not always and not everyone thinks so. It usually works, though, and most people agree that it is or isn't in dire need of any changes.

5. Speed doesn't affect parkour anymore. No real explanation for why either. (my own personal pet peeve)

6. Reload speed bonus on "Speed" is hardly noticeable. Probably more because of reload mechanics than speed.

7. Shield requires a greater number to cover oneself personally completely, though it was rare that this was how people wanted to use it. See the stuff above about the shield number limit for where this complaint can end up leading.

8. No %HP scailing on his #4? It makes the "high damage" claim impossible for high level content (especially with the cap).

9. Arc range seems to be low. Things seem to not always ark unless they are right close together. (possibly a bug? Possibly perception?)

10. The description "potent alternative to gunplay" was once again left alone. An old complaint that has yet to be addressed.

[TwelfthAngel]

6 hours ago, EnderDDT said:

TL/DR version of this thread. I went through all 23 pages worth and these are the things that keep coming up. If it seems like this post is long and has a lot in it, than understand that this is part of the reason why there are 23 pages worth and counting.

There are some things that absolutely need to be fixed, listed by ability. These first things are what people are up in arms about, the things that are such glaring issues that they can't/shouldn't be ignored. These almost certainly should be addressed immediately, even if only to have DE give some sort of reasoning for why these decisions were made.

1. Volt's speed pickup is way too hard for people to opt-into. Some people have tried finding ways to make the current opt-in method work by recasting, therefore making it easier to drop the buff in hard to avoid areas like doorways (to make it easier to place the buff pickup or, more cynically, to force others to pick it up), but that avoids the real issue of people not wanting the buff.  Can we PLEASE try an opt-out option to see if that works first? People have suggested backfliping, rolling, aiming/defending/right-clicking, standing still, even a menu option; all are good options and there are others that could be used too. My favorite ideas are rolling to keep things standard with our other opt-out (limbo) or aiming/defending/right-clicking as it is so easy and isn't something you are likely to do while taking advantage of speed's bonuses.

2. Energy Shield's "riot shield" option has WAY too many and too destructive downsides. It isn't even all that strong compared to a lot of other things in the game (many lists were made). The drain per second needs to be MASSIVELY reduced, the drain over distance completely removed, and the restrictions on speed and weapons need dealt with as well. The weapon restriction is more annoying to the ranged players while the speed restriction is more annoying for the melee players, so leaving either is going to make someone upset when they don't have to be. I have never seen any player base so unified as players are against the restrictions on this one ability (I'm not sure what to think about THAT).

3. The damage cap NEEDS to be removed on his #4 ability. It creates too many horrible interactions. Yes, even if this requires reducing the damage per tick to compensate. You can't mod for duration because the cap is hit. Luring enemy units together just means they break out more quickly without taking any extra damage. The damage still becomes worthless end-game. Random things popping out at different times makes it unreliable. All this because of a damage cap. Not everyone's complaints about this were focused on the cap since most just saw the problems and had no idea why they were happening, but a lot of others focused right down to this issue.

4. The Energy Shield limit of 4 is way too limiting, especially considering what it has to compare to (Snow Globe, mainly). 8 or 10 is what people generally have agreed is a good number for those who need them, but no limit is more popular. If there is some reason why this is an issue otherwise, then deal with that issue rather than doing this. This limit not only prevents creative use of the shields but also hinders them from doing a passable job at what even what 2 snow globes can do. The melee players don't seem to care as much about the restriction, but the ranged, team-oriented, and creative play-style people very much do.

There are some things that need fixed but are not absolutely brokenly "people are constantly rehashing them angrily" issues that the ones above most definitely are.  These are more "people are constantly rehashing them politely" issues:

1. Volt's speed needs to apply immediately. This delay for no reason is just a nerf and is frustrating the entire use of the skill.

2. Set up Volt's PoV change during Speed as an option. Some people really liked it and would like to have it back while still acknowledging and wanting to not have it be a problem for those who had vertigo issues.

3. Volt's shields should not go away when he dies. Other frame's static abilities don't just disappear when the frame falls, and this is doubly important for a team oriented defensive ability. It forces Volt to not even TRY to do anything other than hide behind his shield if he is using it for team use. Either that or he just does not use them for team oriented use in the first place.

4. The interaction of his #1 shock with his Electric Shield needs to have an electric proc rather than a simple damage proc. Even if this is only one time per enemy and even if it replaces the damage altogether. It would make the ability combination useful and is what everyone already expects till they find out it doesn't actually work.

5. Let Volt use his #4 Discharge midair, or let him fire his #4 ability from range. Forcing Volt to get on the ground in the middle of a group of enemies to use his ability is not something he can survive at high levels. No, not even with his riot shield.

6. Change the name of "Discharge" to something less medical sounding. "Static Discharge" is one good option, or just revert to "Overload".

And finally, issues that have come up but don't fall into the above categories of subjective urgency.

1. No base speed buff for what is generally treated as the go-to frame for going fast? There was some surprise about that.

2. Volt's passive is useless end game. It is a little bit of a letdown to some.

3. Volt's passive tries to force him onto the ground, despite this being such a parkour heavy game.

4. Shock is still relatively under powered and inconsistently inconsistent, but not always and not everyone thinks so. It usually works, though, and most people agree that it is or isn't in dire need of any changes.

5. Speed doesn't affect parkour anymore. No real explanation for why either. (my own personal pet peeve)

6. Reload speed bonus on "Speed" is hardly noticeable. Probably more because of reload mechanics than speed.

7. Shield requires a greater number to cover oneself personally completely, though it was rare that this was how people wanted to use it. See the stuff above about the shield number limit for where this complaint can end up leading.

8. No %HP scailing on his #4? It makes the "high damage" claim impossible for high level content (especially with the cap).

9. Arc range seems to be low. Things seem to not always ark unless they are right close together. (possibly a bug? Possibly perception?)

10. The description "potent alternative to gunplay" was once again left alone. An old complaint that has yet to be addressed.

Some one who actually takes the time to read and put a well together post about problems. Thank you.

Volt simply has a bunch of little complications that and few big problems that spawn from being made to go against core game mechanics, which is why his rework is still lackluster. If DE takes anything away from reading the feedback here I hope it all comes what is said in your post good sir.

[Cytobel]

Is it just me, or is there something really obnoxious anout being required to be on the ground so that Discharge's cast animation can lift you up into the air to create it's electrical field?

I know that we've mentioned the ground-only lock on Discharge as being harmful to the ability, but this bit of irony is getting under my skin.

With the unreliability of ground detection in game (I have no idea how many times I've had to walk around to throw ground-locked abilities because of a disagreeable polygon) locking Discharge largely just slows you down.

This restriction needs to be removed.  Volt lacks the necessary durability to stand in enemy fire and requiring multiple shield casts in a crowd just to survive is both impractical and punitive, not to mention prohibitively expensive.

[Aquasurge]

1 hour ago, Cytobel said:

Is it just me, or is there something really obnoxious anout being required to be on the ground so that Discharge's cast animation can lift you up into the air to create it's electrical field?

I know that we've mentioned the ground-only lock on Discharge as being harmful to the ability, but this bit of irony is getting under my skin.

With the unreliability of ground detection in game (I have no idea how many times I've had to walk around to throw ground-locked abilities because of a disagreeable polygon) locking Discharge largely just slows you down.

This restriction needs to be removed.  Volt lacks the necessary durability to stand in enemy fire and requiring multiple shield casts in a crowd just to survive is both impractical and punitive, not to mention prohibitively expensive.

agreed. why spend 250-300 energy to cast discharge safely with ES when you can just cast discharge in mid-air for less energy?

plus, i feel this rework also restricts the basic skills that all players need to survive in this game:

1. parkour
2. tactical analysis of surrounding environment.
3. consider from that analysis what to do next (whether it being using abilities, weapons to kill or just retreating or moving to the next objective).
4. take action that can deal with the situation effectively.

Edited June 3, 2016 by Aquasurge

[Culaio]

8 hours ago, EnderDDT said:

5. Speed doesn't affect parkour anymore. No real explanation for why either. (my own personal pet peeve)

AH, so this is why speed ability feels so much slower then before. I was wondering why since "rework" speed didnt "feel" fast anymore even though there was no mention by DE of decreasing its speed

Edited June 3, 2016 by Culaio

[Farge]

8 hours ago, EnderDDT said:

TL/DR version of this thread

Absolutely hit the nail on the head.

I hope you guys aren't done with Volt just yet - there's still some important stuff to address first.

[Aquasurge]

7 minutes ago, Farge said:

Absolutely hit the nail on the head.

I hope you guys aren't done with Volt just yet - there's still some important stuff to address first.

very true

[Kotsender_Quasimir]

10 hours ago, EnderDDT said:

snip

solid summary!

would still like to see missing shield/gun synergy readded (like they told us they would!!) XP... also still somewhat disagreeing about the shield cap and i almost NEVER play melee, i'm a total gunplayer (one more reason i want to see that obsolote description go :) ): actually i feel the restriction makes me play more creative and strategic than before. T4 def can be done, just as two excavators at the same time, it's just trickier. anyway i just wanted to clarify that... i won't be severly disappointed if they revert it or anything but i'm just totally cool with it. apropos "cool": shields are already superior to globe because of no-hp and blocking of aoe damage, so i guess that evens it out somewhat. also frost is pretty much def-specialized while volt shines in many areas. my 2 plat on the issue.

 

Edited June 3, 2016 by Kotsender_Quasimir

[Kotsender_Quasimir]

5 hours ago, Cytobel said:

but this bit of irony is getting under my skin.

totally feel you. this discrepancy is making me think it's only an oversight anyway, really.

[VoidNomade]

On 28.5.2016 at 6:54 AM, Cara360 said:

I gotta say, I'm piss off of the fact they limit Volt shield to 4.

+1

FO balance in this case

[Aquasurge]

2 minutes ago, VoidNomade said:

+1

FO balance in this case

they should've limit the dmg stacking to four but kept it unlimited

[VoidNomade]

Just now, Aquasurge said:

they should've limit the dmg stacking to four but kept it unlimited

That would have been much more reasonable.

[YagoXiten]

7 hours ago, Culaio said:

AH, so this is why speed ability feels so much slower then before. I was wondering why since "rework" speed didnt "feel" fast anymore even though there was no mention by DE of decreasing its speed

Actually, they haven't decreased its speed. It hasn't affected parkour since Parkour 2.0 came out. The FoV change is more than likely why you feel less fast.

Edited June 3, 2016 by YagoXiten

[Waspyeh]

Page 23, RIP my time

13 hours ago, EnderDDT said:

TL/DR version of this thread. I went through all 23 pages worth and these are the things that keep coming up. If it seems like this post is long and has a lot in it, than understand that this is part of the reason why there are 23 pages worth and counting.

Agree with all. (I deleted some items off of quote so it cant be tiresome to scroll)

[EnderDDT]

4 hours ago, YagoXiten said:

Actually, they haven't decreased it's speed. It hasn't affected parkour since Parkour 2.0 came out. The FoV change is more than likely why you feel less fast.

 

All I know was that as of right before the update it worked with Rocket jumps and air sliding/"divekicking", and now it doesn't. I would very often use it to jump across gaps that I couldn't get across without the boost. I also got feedback from my buddies across voip when I would hit the boost button when they were midair, completely ruining their jump trajectory. I'm not sure if this was an unintended bug or something, but I do know for a fact that it did work before.

[Toramaru]

@EnderDDT my God man, lay off the keyboard!

Although I still disagree on many suggestions, I believe it is general consensus that DE is taking an awful large amount of time as we know to show any sign of a tweak.

[RealPandemonium]

Runspeed and the resulting momentum can be partially inherited by parkour maneuvers, and the slide coefficient also matters.  There are a number of variables that can affect it, making this issue difficult to compare now that the update has dropped.  

[Wolfnrun]

8 hours ago, Aquasurge said:

they should've limit the dmg stacking to four but kept it unlimited

Ooo I like that! 

[SamuraiWMT]

I've been following this thread on and off, and there are a lot of good ideas in here. I just thought that I might as well post my own ideas as well. I've been using Volt quite a lot these few days, but I wouldn't consider what I've done as testing; I've only been doing some casual play, so some of the problems about him falling off late game I was not able to experience first hand. I feel that Volt as he is right now is indecisive. He is a mix between being a caster damage frame and being a support frame. DE should decide which one he is and just go all in: no compromising. I thought I would provide some of my own insight on what DE could do to make Volt a great damage frame or a good support frame.

Caster Volt:
Shock - Shock is fine as it is now it just needs to be more involved in Volt's skill set.
Speed - Volt throws down a speed pad in front of him.  While he has the speed buff, he electrocutes the ground creating a path that other Tenno can step on to get the buff, similar to Nezha's Fire Walker ability.
    Shocked Speed: Allow Volt to Shock the speed pad and have it increase  the speed buff he and fellow Tenno receive.
Energy Shield/Riot Shield - Get rid of the movement decrease, the primary restriction, and the energy drain based on distance traveled, but increase the base energy drain to compensate.
    Shocked Energy Shield/Riot Shield: This is fine as it is.
Discharge - Make the CC this skill provides more consistent.
    Shocked Tesla Coil: Deal more damage.
Explanation:
The primary idea behind Caster Volt is that we don't need to build for Power Strength because Shock will compensate for the lack of it.  This will allow us to focus on the other stats he needs.  However, for builds based on power strength the increase in power that shock provides wouldn't be that noticeable.  

Support Volt:
Shock - Combine with Shock Trooper.
Speed - Go back to how it originally was, and increase the base speed received, or use the method described in Caster Volt.
Energy Shield/Riot Shield - Don't decrease the size of the shield when picked up.
Discharge - Increase damage Tesla Coils take from allies.
Explanation:
Volt acts a support, so he doesn't need any power strength; however for this type of Volt to work the range on Capacitance needs to be bigger.  I have a hard time giving overshield to allies because the range of it is so short.

Well, that's the gist of if.  I hope I properly conveyed my ideas, and that these ideas may serve as a base for other ideas. Thanks for reading.  

Edited June 3, 2016 by SamuraiWMT
Spelling

[Aquasurge]

i just had an Idea. what if we could throw the speed buff drop and use it as a stun grenade (as ball lightning)? would save a lot of time having to run to allies in a jam.

Edited June 3, 2016 by Aquasurge