Mesa Revisions Feedback Post Update 18.13

[alergiclaprosti]

Peacemaker still doesn't affect the Globe Eximus.

I think this is the only 4th ability that doesn't bypass the shield (like most of the other 4th abilities) or, at least, damage the shield before damaging the actual unit.

In other words, this ability can't damage (while still targeting and shooting, so not focusing on other enemies) enemies that are easily damaged by other 4th abilities.

 

Shooting Gallery is a lot better now that Mesa doesn't lose it to her team.

Still it responds very slow. It takes more than one second until it disables an enemy after said enemy comes into range.

When it was released the ability was very responsive. It's one of the reasons that made me buy her. In the months after her release, this ability, was nerfed into the ground to the point that it's not even half as useful as it first was. 

If it reacts faster to the enemies coming into range it will be just right.

 

oh yes ...

Ballistic Battery is too slow...

If it charges passively and only the discharge is active (uses energy and does what it does) it will be in the same universe and the rest of the game.

Edited June 1, 2016 by alergiclaprosti

[(PSN)Priester_Paul]

9 hours ago, (XB1)IIDSII HOODZ said:

You guys do know if you hold down the power button she can move right?

As he said, mesa can walk while using peacemaker, she just can't fire while walking, i thought i'll quote him just to make sure, that everybody sees it. I got the feeling very few people know about that.

[Dekallis]

I wish ballistic battery was one handed so i could activate it while firing/reloading without interrupting the action. That'd be great.

Edited June 1, 2016 by Dekallis

[LeviBlueman]

12 hours ago, (XB1)IIDSII HOODZ said:

You guys do know if you hold down the power button she can move right?

 

3 hours ago, (PS4)Priester_Paul said:

As he said, mesa can walk while using peacemaker, she just can't fire while walking, i thought i'll quote him just to make sure, that everybody sees it. I got the feeling very few people know about that.

Not on the PC :p

[(XBOX)IIDSII HOODZ]

14 minutes ago, IoanMasoku said:

 

 

Not on the PC :p

If you use a controller you can ;)

[LeviBlueman]

3 hours ago, (XB1)IIDSII HOODZ said:

If you use a controller you can ;)

I'm not sure if it's intended though, DE mentioned nothing about Mesa being able to move while Peacemaking, if anything it could be a bug.

[YoWhatsUp]

I don't know if it would match her kit, but if we're able to just shoot her guns once instead of charging and then shooting it might look cool and be fun a the same time and making her fit other damage dealing frames like atlas and ash's 1st ability works Or maybe the quiver ability for ivara's with multiple uses. Mesa is fun to use but if does feel like her 3 is there because of her 4, making it look like an ability that exist because of her weakness of standing still in the open. changing her 4 be an energy use per shot and make her 3 be another channel ability that absorbs % damage and be able to dish out that damage when deactivated ( or her 1 ) would free up her 1st ability keeping her 3rd and 4th still have the same function. maintaining around the same energy used and functions, but much more effective overall. Having 2 channel abilities might be a hassle to maintain control over energy and giving suggestions might not be the best feedback, but hope this give a similar but a some kind of light into a new way of approaching her abilities rather than the static frames we have.

[Skaoi]

I've played Mesa a ton ever since her release (and actually didn't use her as a turret much, because it was and is just boring). People that try to justify Mesa not being capable of any movement during Peacemaker tend to be completely off in their justifications. A gunslinger standing still? For a quickdraw single-shot duel, sure. That's the only time you'd see that. No one's going to stand still in a firefight and still be standing by the end of it. No one today, nor gunslingers back then.

And following that thought, I too wish for some movement being possible for Mesa while in Peacemaker, WITHOUT the use of an augment mod. Why do I say that? Because augments are supposed to change an ability in an interesting way, not flat out buff and thus be mandatory. There have been MANY suggestions towards anything that enables Mesa to have mobility, several of which also preserved the gun-kata animations which I can't blame DE for wanting to keep (and is an ACTUAL argument for not giving her mobility, in fear of losing it). Examples in spoiler:

Spoiler

On 28-5-2016 at 6:17 PM, Azamagon said:

Some things I'd like to talk about:

Peacemaker and weapon-scaling abilities in general:

Peacemaker
Still doesn't feel interactive enough. Imagine these added changes:
* Can move completely freely, like any other "Exalted" weapon
* Primary fire is freely aimed shooting, like a regular weapon
* Aimging is aiming
* Secondary fire is the auto-aim-shooting. However, instead of the shrinking reticule, it is now a shrinking RANGE. X amount of shots have full range before the shrinking starts. Shooting with Secondary fire roots you in place though.
* Hitting enemies with Primary fire rather quickly restores the Secondary fire's auto-aim range (incudling growing back those X fullrange shots), making you want to alternate between the 2 firing modes.
* Now drains energy per shot, instead of over time. Autoaim shots drain a bit more per bullet.

That'd be FAR more interactive, imo.

Shooting Gallery change is great though, can't argue with that :)

 

Weapon-scaling abilities
Can we get seperate modding areas for Exalted weapons / abilities affected by weapon mods, please? It would be lovely if we could bring, say, Excalibur, to a Pistol only sortie, without his Exalted Blade hitting like weaksauce. After all, Exalted Blade is first and foremost an ABILITY, not a weapon per se.
If we could mod "exalted" weapons and abilities seperately (without the mod-restrictions like we have on Warframe vs Sentinel, thank you!), then it would do multiple VERY imporatnt things:
* You can mod your ability / Exalted weapon optimally, without possibly gimping your actual weapon in question!
* You can choose whichever weapon you want in the actual weaponslot, even those with weapon-specific mods, because it won't nerf the Exalted ability!
* In sorties etc: Ivara could bring a shotgun or no primary, Mesa could go without any pistols, Excal/Ash/Valkyr/Atlas/Wukong (and whomever else scales have weaponscaling abilities / have Exalted weapons) could go without a melee, and they would ALL still be able to use their abilities fully! Glorious, no?

Or This thread on having 2 modes of fire for PM.

I'd even argue that DE is free to nerf the damage for giving her mobility (as in cutting it in half while moving(?)). And if Mesa genuinely won't ever receive mobility, at least lower the energy drain slightly. It's the steepest drain of any channeled ability, cripplingly so. This is mentioned as a drawback to PM's high potential damage, but isn't that the point of being immobile already? Imho it should be one or the other. Not both. And that's not even mentioning she can't cast anything while in PM anyway, which is yet another drawback. Starts getting hard to even justify using it.

On her other abilities, I thoroughly enjoy the buff to Shooting Gallery's lasso sticking with me, and I wish her 1 (Ballistic Battery) would be slightly more usable. Giving several seconds of empowered shots or simply having the buff be applied over your entire magazine (scales/spread over # of bullets in said mag, ofc) would go a long way. Or if it charged passively and you just had to activate it to use it... And please, please make it a 1-handed action. As for Shatter Shield, it's a great ability, but it should NOT be mandatory for other abilities to work (like using PM for anything over 2 seconds) and not get you killed.

Edited June 1, 2016 by Frost0513

[EienKai]

Hi to all,

Firstly, thanks DE for all the work! 

I usually don't get involve in forums in any games(I only read, don't post), but this time I would like to provide some feedbacks. 

 

Ballistic Battery

It's a nice skill. Would be nice if recastable while in Peacemaker.

 

Shooting Gallery & Shattered Shield

At times I wish they had the same duration. Hopefully following SG's duration.

 

Peacemaker

As with most feedbacks from other players, I too agree that being able to move in Peacemaker would be really nice. I can imagine her walking/rolling with style, just to be able to reposition would be amazing.

As for Field Of View, I remember reading someone's feedback that would be nice if they grow back larger when not firing, that would be nice too.

As for damage, some say its high (100k and above?), some say its low(10k under?), is depending on build and party set up, which seems fine and fair.

As for energy, I don't see it as much of a problem as most people. Again, build plays a part, and I guess individual player's feel.

 

I feel that Mesa needs to utilize all her abilities in her kit and build properly to truly shine.

 

Thanks again DE, keep it up.

[feellling]

Warning:Wall of text ahead,please give it a read :D

Hey guys i think i have come up with a change that "fixes" everything "wrong" with mesa.From reading most of the feedback it seams there are two main problem areas for mesa,The first being Ballistic battery.The skill kinda has a split opinion,one of the opinions is that its a great concept and can work wonders with weapons like the dex sybaris,targeting high damage for a priority target but its held back by its damage cap.The second opinion being that its out of place on mesa and needs to be changed,stand in between these opinions (will rehash later).The second problem area being peacemaker keeping mesa stationary,on the one hand it compensates for the fact that peacemaker has huge damage and auto targets so the player needs to pick situations where we can use these massive benefits with the sacrifice of no mobility,weve also been given shattersheild  that should keep us alive.While shattersheild is an amazing ability,when  it comes to later levels you really need to keep moving despite the damage reduction,being stationary also seams to be a bit out of place in a game that has such a big emphasis on dynamic movment.Heres my simple solution to both these problems

Change mesas 1 to a new ability:An ability that moves mesa a short distance(dash or a roll),reloads her equipped weapon and adds a damage buff (scaling with power strength)on the next shot.This ability can be used while in peacemaker with a reduced cost,increasing the cost with every sequential roll  

Why does this fix everything?Before peacemaker got its buff ,most mesa players used mesa as "shattersheild" mesa as did 1,i loved the idea of using a precision weapon like the dex sybaris with this build as it gave me some leeway to take the time to line up that head-shot knowing i can somewhat rely on shattersheild,even better when i was alone and i got the stun allowing me to carefully pick off targets with head shots and have a ballistic battery shot saved up for that bombard or heavy gunner,only problem was the damage fall of and the fact that ballistic batter still seamed too offer to little as a first ability.When looking at the ideal first ability its simple,and synergizes well with the theme of the frame and the other abilitys,a prime example is ivaras quiver which just seams so slick,it just works with ivaras general play style and is really convient with artemis bow.Adding the dash and reload while having the uncapped damage buff turns mesas 1 into the perfect skill for her.It not only encourages gunplay and although subtly,does alot for late game scaling providing that mobility and the privilege of making short work of a priority enemy with that argon scope,damage buffed dex sybaris headshot ,makes the possibility for some nice calculated synergy with weapons like the dex sybaris or sancti tigris or high powerd pistol like the lex prime but also fixes peacemakers mobility problem without making it too powerfull ie:having free mobility,and just flying around autotargetting everything,youd have to watch your energy carefully due to the high energy drain of peacemaker and the energy cost of the roll ramping up slowly so its not free mobility,it just seams to work and tick all the boxes

Mesa is an extremely fun and rewarding frame to play,ive found that the best way is  a hybrid,using predominatley the shattersheild gunplay style and then using peacemaker to clear a room or when you get swarmed,the new one contributes greatly to this style ,fixes all mesas problems while not making her extremely overpowered.Please tell me what you guys think ,lets hope the devs see this for the sake of our gunslinger queen!!

(note: i used the dex sybaris in my example as it seams to fit perfectly with the guman,marksmen style of mesa,stylish,strong but needing skill and focus to pull of)

Edited June 2, 2016 by feellling

[Gurpgork]

On June 1, 2016 at 3:09 AM, (PS4)Priester_Paul said:

As he said, mesa can walk while using peacemaker, she just can't fire while walking

Then what's the point? Just deactivate it, relocate for real, and then recast it. 

[(PSN)Priester_Paul]

4 hours ago, Gurpgork said:

Then what's the point? Just deactivate it, relocate for real, and then recast it. 

Recasting costs you another 25 energy, so sometimes it's better to relocate while peacemaker is still active.

[aweblade4]

Will anything be done about muzzle flash not working properly with the new shooting gallery changes? i.e. Flash not being cast on the user.

[RealPandemonium]

On 5/27/2016 at 7:26 PM, Nesit1 said:

Changes are awesome. Damage is sweet. But the thing I wonder about is modding.

Clarity is crucial, right? And it's hard to understand what build is better on her. From what I see:

1).Crit mods don't do much (because pistol crit mods are bad in general)

2).Physical damage of Regulators is almost even so physical mods aren't that good.

3).Fire rate mods don't work (?)

(that's what I understood from personal tests)

At first, the way it is - it's not that okay. The best way to mod is pure damage/multishot/elemental/fraction. What I want to see - crit builds were okay (if they aren't right now), Regulators will have some physical damage in priority (to increase it with mods).

At second, there are no clear stats of Regulators. Modded/unmodded. All building is quite intuative (don't say about wikia, game should provide info by itself, right?). We should have special window for this weapon and also Wukong/Excalibur's weapons (maybe Atlas as well on his 1st?). That would be cool.

Anyway, this patch is big step to great future, and I'm happy to see all of those changes. Great job!

Peacemaker has crazy base crit stats.  The unprimed pistol crit mods are good on it and the primed ones are over-the-top good.  

Peacemaker is Impact-biased (50% impact, 25% of the other two) so Impact mods will be more effective, but physical damage mods are usually sub-optimal anyway and are mostly used for Elemental Enhancement Sorties and to increase Slash proc bias.  

Fire rate is affected by holster speed modifiers but not fire rate mods.  

This game provides a criminally small amount of info in-interface; reading the wiki is practically required to be knowledgeable player, and often separates those who know or don't know what they're talking about on this forum.  

Edited June 3, 2016 by RealPandemonium

[Alma_Elma]

On 2016/5/28 at 6:31 AM, [DE]Danielle said:

Hey Tenno! 

This megathread will be used to host your discussions regarding the recent Mesa ability changes in Update 18.13:

Please be respectful and keep your feedback constructive. Thank you! 

Mesa rework long overdue and fixed the most glaring problems we had with her that made her mediocre, pre-rework.

That said, Ballistic Battery needs some rework. Its just too situational compared to her other abilities. What I'd suggest is making her a bit more fun and western-ish:

Replace Ballistic Battery with "Quickdraw".

Mesa quickly draws one of her regulator pistols and performs a single shot at her target. Has 3 effects that can be toggled (Like Ivara's arrows and Vauban's mines):
1. Disabling shot: Fires a single shot that knocks an opponent's weapon out of their hands, disarming them and inflicts an impact proc.

2. Lethal shot: Fires a single kill shot at an opponent. Damage is dependent on Peacemaker's stats and ignores 50% of armor and shields.

3. Trick shot: Fires a single round at an opponent. Damage is dependent on Peacemaker's stats but causes the shot to penetrate enemies only and ricochet off surfaces within 20m that can hit upto 4 enemies at once. Inflicts slash procs at enemies hit by the round.

Edited June 3, 2016 by Alma_Elma

[(PSN)Joshua-_-pena]

On ‎27‎/‎05‎/‎2016 at 8:05 PM, JohnViande said:

Peacemaker is awesome and Shooting gallery has done a step in the right direction: now all it needs is the crowd control to remain centered on Mesa.

The rework is good and all but, my Mesa can't recast any ability's wall in pacemaker I have to turn it 0n and off every time

[JohnnyWylde]

I used to play Mesa before the nerfs and I thought I might try her again after I read the last patch's notes so here are my thought about her: I used a build focused mainly on Power Duration and Efficiency with 130% Strength and really low Range (I strongly believe I could add some more range instead of that 30% strength). My secondary was a crit focused Twin Grakatas with all the prime mods installed but not all of them maxed. I did a T3 Defense, 40 waves with a Frost and EV Trinity (we were only 3 in the squad) and through the entire mission I used only her Peacemaker so this is the ability I will talk about. The fact that the Secondary mods does affect the Peacemaker was really really needed as the most damage will now come from these mods and your build can be focused on efficiency and increasing your energy pool. For Defense, EV Trinity is absolutely needed as Peacemaker's efficiency is still low. It is true that the energy cannot be replenished by EV while PM is active but if you have Flow / Prime Flow installed, you can ask Trinity to EV the first enemies of the new wave and replenish your energy pool and you can use PM for the entire wave without having any other problems with energy. Also the decreasing area of the aiming ring is not necessarily a bad thing as PM's damage will increase and there are plenty situations when you will need to focus your damage towards the enemies with really high DPS (as MOAs, Heavy Gunners or Bombards) rather than shooting random enemies while you're getting blasted by Bombards. One last thing I want to note is that if you spend too much time using PM you won't get the 5-waves reward. After every wave I went around the map colecting dropped stuff and also there were a plenty of situations when I used my other weapons to kill enemies and still I didn't receive the 40 waves reward becuase I was inactive which is bullS#&$ so be careful.

[Kaokasalis]

After toying around with the Peacemaker changes a bit i must say Peacemaker is in a very good spot damage-wise but it still suffers from that horrendous energy cost of 15 energy per second. Even when running a build made to optimize the energy drain with as much duration and efficiency i could put into it, Peacemaker would still take around a third of my energy on average in the defense mission i was doing, even with a maxed Primed Flow. Mesa is the only frame with a 15 energy drain per second with Banshee being the second frame with the highest energy drain on one of her abilities which is Soundquake and that takes 12 energy per second. Banshe however hits everything in range and is not dependent on line of sight. With no way to move around in Peacemaker, it being dependent on line of sight and its shooting radius becoming smaller per shot i just dont find 15 energy per second agreeable. Theres just to much energy spent in the time between looking for enemies with the crosshair or waiting for them to become targetable with Peacemaker.

Edited June 3, 2016 by Kaokasalis

[Reihjin]

Ok so the changes to peacemaker and shooting gallery are awesome, still wish we had some sort of mobility during peacemaker and maybe the energy drain could be lower.

Also after seeing the changes to the FoV during volt's speed, I feel this is an opportunity to suggest a change or maybe an alternate option for the peacemaker target ring graphic. I find that no matter what color I select from my currently available palettes,  when the ring is at its smallest, the graphic just gets squashed and is really hard to see when aiming at a crowd of enemies. I don't always want to cancel out of peacemaker at this point, because I want to focus my fire on a specific enemy. Sometimes peacemaker just stops firing even though I am still aiming at the target only to find that, on closer inspection, the ring is just slightly off center, but i couldn't see the ring clearly. Is it possible to have a simple circle option instead of what is currently implemented? Similar to how the regular cross-hair is always visible on top of what ever effects that are happening on screen. It should still behave the same way, showing the max range and getting smaller per shot as the current graphic does, but easier to make out.

[Ascythian]

All Ballistic Battery needs is a duration after you activate it for a second time.

[alergiclaprosti]

I see that everyone is talking about how much damage Peacemaker does now.

What about how Peacemaker fails against the frozen eximus or how Shooting Gallery reacts even slower than before? 

[Enno69]

18 minutes ago, alergiclaprosti said:

I see that everyone is talking about how much damage Peacemaker does now.

What about how Peacemaker fails against the frozen eximus or how Shooting Gallery reacts even slower than before? 

What about it ?

[Reihjin]

2 hours ago, Enno69 said:

What about it ?

I does no damage to arctic eximus frost globe. I noticed this aswell. Dont know about the shooting gallery thing tho.

[JalakBali]

Here's what I don't like about Peacemaker rework: doing more shots and being in PM longer makes the power less effective since the reticle gets smaller. It is forcing you to get in and out of PM to get more coverage and feels really awkward. Holding down attack button to shoot is also odd since there's no point in not shooting with in PM mode.

 

So here's what Peacemaker should've been:

1. You don't need to press attack to shoot. Anything in her reticle while she's activating Peacemaker would get shot at.

2. Pressing attack button (left mouse button) would make the reticle smaller (kinda like a zoom). But why would you make the reticle smaller? Because the smaller the reticle gets, the stronger and faster Peacemaker gets.

3. Pressing aim button (right mouse button) would increase reticle size.

 

So how would this change things? With this, Peacemaker is less about making quick sweeps all around you before the reticle gets too small so you had to reset. This way you gets to choose whether you wanted big coverage but slower and less powerful attacks, or pin-point damage dump on smaller area.  Lots of mooks all over the place? Widen the reticle. That Bombard just not dying fast enough? Zoom the reticle and blast him faster. So now Peacemaker has a tactical element on how you use it.

 

And yea, fix the "not damaging enemy snowglobe" thing too, please.

[Hyacinth_Prime]

Hi, DE,

I got mesa right after Mesa's buff, and i think it really deal a great damage against those bosses who are not invulnerable. But its kind of awkward when you have to shoot some specific spot like Jackal's leg or Vay Hek's face, when against those bosses Mesa is really useless in the most time. I hope this can be fixed if u call that a bug.

In addition, the PM seems cant break the enemies snowglobe, but she will still tring to shoot it. This is really annoying, of course i can stop my PM and use other weapon to break it but i think PM still shoule work against snowglobes. 

Last, It's about the mana cost, Mesa really cost a lot of mana comparing to other frame who have 150 energy when it's lv 30. The excalibur's cost can bu reduced to 0.63, Valkyr is the same. I dont expecting that Mesa's mana cost to reduce much, since that will be too OP. But sometimes when i active my PM, and did a lot of shooting, than enemies just stop coming, either i have to deactivate my PM which is lose my buff from pervious shoot, or i cost 3.75 mana/s and do nothing, so im think if Mesa's PM can reduce the mana cost to 4 mana/s when Mesa it NOT shooting, and dont change the mana cost when Mesa is shooting, which is 15 mana/s. That will be great i think. Otherwise I think Mesa can get some mana from each killing by Peacemaker, or just reduce the mana cost or mana pool, the idea is that the cost of Mesa's PM is need to be BUFF a little bit more.

I hope this could help. Thanks.

Sincere.