Valkyr Revisions Feedback [Post Update 18.13]

[Roachester]

16 hours ago, Rhaenxys said:

I agree with most of this, however DE option to limit the use of hysteria is extremely bad and have an impact on the whole kit.

Even if her other 3 abilities would be decent, modding would be a nightmare, narrow minded is pretty much obligatory for any decent use of hysteria, severely reducing your range on the other abilities.

Just my two cents but first they need to find another route to limit how much time you spend on hysteria without relying on stupidly high power costs, thats a very lazy fix.

To be perfectly honest, I don't much care one way or the other about this new Hysteria. It'd be nice if they slowed down the rate at which the energy gain ramps up, but I don't find it to be much of a pain to use. They can do whatever they want to this ability, as long as it maintains some semblance of a proper "risk vs reward" playstyle.

That's just me, though.

More than anything, I would just like a legitimate reason to use ALL of Valkyr's abilities on a regular basis. For instance, they could make Ripline a one-handed cast when used on enemies so she isn't cannon fodder throughout the entire animation (or they could just replace the move with something a little more relevant to the game's current mechanics). The slow effect on Warcry could be changed into an aura that follows her around, or they could just lower the energy cost and make it re-castable. Paralysis could use a handy range and duration buff, and they can even increase the energy cost slightly to compensate. Hysteria, like I said, is in a spot that I personally don't mind, but, like everything else in life, there's always room for improvement.

 

I'm working through some actual numbers at the moment, but it'll probably be a few days before I can get the actual post up.

[Synpai]

0. Passive: Maybe along side or instead of knockdown recovery make it so she just "Cannot be downed" or has a delay before she's downed. She still would have a bleedout timer, but perhaps (similar to Inaros) she can try to fight her way back alive. (This way she still has that "reviver of the battlefield/ Valkrie" feel and doesn't have to have to rely on Hysteria for such)

1. I say she needs a Pounce, Claw Roll, Claw Spike, Maul, etc. something that feels more fluid or more impactful than Ripline.

2. Leave it.

3. Paralysis is actually okay: it's used to open enemies up for finishers, so it's perfect for armored heavies.

     Prolonged Paralysis (since in its current state it removes the point of paralysis) could change the ability to be duration based (and increase finisher damage) either:

• Wyrm like pulse that staggers enemies after taking so much damage.
• %Chance of paralysis happening on damage dealt/taken
• Small aura that "freezes" enemies (causing them to take finisher damage) around Valkyr for the duration. This one is my favorite.

4. I'm not sure how I feel about hysteria in its current state.

    +On one paw, a lot more caution has to be used when deciding to cast Hysteria and deciding "how long," and the "Ramp Up" is very thematic.

    -On the other paw, there's no incentive (a damage ramp up for example) to suffer the drawbacks: Just use a weapon with high Block DR and Lifestrike (also better range than your claws) and make better use of your energy. 

    **Channeling in Hysteria is a bit of a missed opportunity to have her claws have an "energy shadow" to extend their range (like a much closer ranged Excalibur wave in claw form).

    **I would like to see Hysteria act as a steroid like Amesha: Innate Rage, DR, and Damage that ramps up with damage taken/damage dealt, but still with all that claw-y flavor (That way we're more likely to zone in on our blood lust and fall prey to mistakes)

 

 

Always end on a strong joke: Inb4 every enemy looks like a nullifier when Hysteria is active lol.

Edited July 31, 2016 by Synpai
Bold doesn't standout in dark theme, hoping underlining helps.

[RadriarTheGodKing]

On 5/27/2016 at 6:34 PM, [DE]Danielle said:

Hey Tenno! 

This megathread will be used to host your discussions regarding the recent Mesa ability changes in Update 18.13:

 

You mean Valk... not Mesa... Come on... first you destroy our favorite frame, then you cant even say her name correctly? I guess nerfing her this bad will make her just that forgetable.

[(PSN)Vampire223456789]

9 hours ago, RadriarTheGodKing said:

You mean Valk... not Mesa... Come on... first you destroy our favorite frame, then you cant even say her name correctly? I guess nerfing her this bad will make her just that forgetable.

People don't care about Valkyr anymore.

Edited August 1, 2016 by (PS4)Vampire223456789

[DarcnyssWolfe]

Just posting to say I'm glad this megathread has gone the way I expected Nerf-day 1: Ignored and left to slowly be buried alive where the Devs will most likely never make the changes we ask for and will most likely do nothing for poor pointless Valkyr for another year or two.

Cheers all, we get a once amazing frame thoroughly pruned and left in the dust.

Like I said, in another year or two or whenever we get Valk Prime (can't wait to see how that goes) maybe we'll finally get another shot at making Valk worth the team slot.

[ElderSpiritWolf]

Please revert the changes, Valkyr Was really the only way solo players like me could do certain activities and due to my mods and my crappy luck regarding them still couldn't do high level stuff efficiently. I can understand the reasoning behind it but there were better ways to handle this such as not rendering the only useful thing she had inert, now i have read some people saying that you can still last a long time in it but that's with primed mods and other stuff that not every player has also i have gone through entire missions with only 1-2 energy drops so if that happens Valky is royally screwed now where as i could use my energy strategically before and circumvent my garbage luck now i have a chance to die when i exit and it's basically suicide to try to assault enemies while in her primary damage mode. No I take it back i can't understand why this was even considered as a good idea as it's basically a middle finger to any solo player who put time and effort into this frame, almost all of my playtime has involved getting stuff to make Valkyr better which i now feel was wasted.. Sure you could say find a new frame after all it wouldn't be too hard i have them all but I don't wanna run the risk of investing into another frame just for this to happen to that frame and have all that effort wasted. This needs to be changed to something more reasonable, even if you rework her entirely and change her entire moveset just make her a good choice again. 

[Rhaenxys]

The problem is, even with primed mods/narrow minded the increased energy consumption is mediocre at best, even if DE decides to buff her other abilities to a significant level, hysteria will take too much energy to spend on the other abilities or if you decide to mod for the other three abilities hysteria will be unusable and will take even more energy.

First they have to address the problem with the energy consumption and find another way to force us to deactivate hysteria, a health drain will fix a lot of problems or even a decaying damage reduction so it starts at 100% (invincibility) but goes 10% lower every 10 seconds and you can raise the DR again by killing, those are just two examples there are a lot of options.

There is a lot of people who dont even like the changes, increased energy consumption is just lazy and makes valkyr a frustrating experience instead of being a risk vs reward frame.

Cant say anything more in this thread without being repetitive, wish we get some news from DE anytime soon.

[Sahxta]

The only aspect of this frame that matters is destroyed the change is disgusting and DE should revert it and no im not a "butthurt Valkyr abuser" i just got to use her for 2 days and the only thing i concluded to is that she is completely uselesess in high end missions where you have to keep hitting a single enemy untill he dies and suddenly you are out of energy?So as i said DE could think something different by not destroying one of the few melee oriented warframes that exist in this game.There is nothing that will motivate a player to pick her over some other alternatives that are a lot more viable and not practically useless and im not even talking about team oriented buffs and utility,im talking about as an individual melee damage dealer.I really hope they bring her mechanics back as i saw it on youtube and decided to build her and was very dissapointed with these awful and disgusting results.

 

[Weltraumfred]

I am still more or less maining Valkyr, because I have been running a Warcry built ever since Eternal War was around, and only dip into Hysteria once in a while to recover health. Mostly because I feel the de-activation of the power with the circle of death-thingy is really awkward, as is the mounting energy cost which can drain you dry if you don't watch the counter.

 

Actually I'd drop the circle of death entirely, and the invulnerability, well, a little bit:

- increase the claw damage to something really high (like 450 instead of 300), adjusted by Power Strength

- Valkyr gains 75% damage reduction, adjusted by Power Strength, values over 100% are set to 100%

- After 5 seconds, the values decrease over 40 seconds, until they reach a fifth of their full power (Base Damage 90 and 15% damage reduction), both the initial 5 secs and the time over which you loose power are modified by duration

- Both values recover if you spend time out of Hysteria, a full recovery takes 80 seconds, which is not modified by duration, but for every enemy killed, you get 1 second of recovery

- Life Drain and (Base) Energy costs are untouched, maybe add a little aggro to nearby enemies

[(XBOX)TheRoflLizard]

I wanna nerf Loki.We should nerf him.

[(PSN)Vampire223456789]

On August 2, 2016 at 8:23 AM, ElderSpiritWolf said:

Please revert the changes, Valkyr Was really the only way solo players like me could do certain activities and due to my mods and my crappy luck regarding them still couldn't do high level stuff efficiently. I can understand the reasoning behind it but there were better ways to handle this such as not rendering the only useful thing she had inert, now i have read some people saying that you can still last a long time in it but that's with primed mods and other stuff that not every player has also i have gone through entire missions with only 1-2 energy drops so if that happens Valky is royally screwed now where as i could use my energy strategically before and circumvent my garbage luck now i have a chance to die when i exit and it's basically suicide to try to assault enemies while in her primary damage mode. No I take it back i can't understand why this was even considered as a good idea as it's basically a middle finger to any solo player who put time and effort into this frame, almost all of my playtime has involved getting stuff to make Valkyr better which i now feel was wasted.. Sure you could say find a new frame after all it wouldn't be too hard i have them all but I don't wanna run the risk of investing into another frame just for this to happen to that frame and have all that effort wasted. This needs to be changed to something more reasonable, even if you rework her entirely and change her entire moveset just make her a good choice again. 

TRUE!

[feralknights]

Haha, whoops, I posted something in the wrong window tab.

Edited August 10, 2016 by feralknights
Posted things on the wrong window tab!

[(PSN)HarigeVINCE]

The only thing that should be removed ASAP, imho, is the self-damaging aura which becomes an instant death in high levels when you fall off the map, get leeched,.. (reverting everything would be nice too tho)

I get the idea, but in this game it's just bad, really bad. It's the only reason I stopped playing Valkyr, and she used to be one of my favorites.

I think this thread shows how bad the situation is for poor Valkyr, please get the hint DE, please.

[(PSN)FunyFlyBoy]

Isn't there supposed to be a cap on how quickly energy drain ramps up cause I never noticed such a cap.

[DarthValkyr]

8 hours ago, (PS4)FunyFlyBoy said:

Isn't there supposed to be a cap on how quickly energy drain ramps up cause I never noticed such a cap.

There is a percent on the ability. When it hits 100%, that it's capped energy drain. 

 

Side note: I am honestly not having much trouble with this version of Valk. Though I still wish we had some type of aggro passive with Hysteria. One of the reason I get annoyed is the energy drains so fast that it's only ideal for one group of enemies. Other times it's wasted just trying to run to each enemy. I think once they enter her "bubble," they should try to get closer. Sort of run and gun at her. Anyways, I'm not seeing any real problems with her now. Just some annoyances.

[Synpai]

5 hours ago, DarthValkyr said:

 Anyways, I'm not seeing any real problems with her now. Just some annoyances.

Issue is that there isnt much incentive to sit through the negatives because the positives are meh. Heavy Melee weapons scale better than the claws with combo mods and the invincibility is only used as a trump card which probably wouldn't be needed if she had more health and DR. For something to increase in cost at that rate there should be something given. They could've given her scaling damage and DR as a trade off.

[Vyra]

i froze playing her.. to much stress keeping her alive...
i wait for changes to continue playing her actively.. until then i play ***** ( censored frame name due to panic they will gimp her if i tell name )...

[PrometheanLegacy]

Hi there,

Valkyr is my Warframe of choice and it always will be no matter what they do to her. I post it into the torment lore. ^^ But I agree with most here and in other Valkyr threads. She needs work to be awesome and unique to play.

In my opinion these two ideas combined sound interesting:

On 31.7.2016 at 8:44 AM, Synpai said:

0. Passive: [...] make it so she just "Cannot be downed" [...]

+

On 3.8.2016 at 3:00 PM, Weltraumfred said:

Actually I'd drop the circle of death entirely, and the invulnerability, well, a little bit:

- increase the claw damage to something really high (like 450 instead of 300), adjusted by Power Strength

- Valkyr gains 75% damage reduction, adjusted by Power Strength, values over 100% are set to 100%

- After 5 seconds, the values decrease over 40 seconds, until they reach a fifth of their full power (Base Damage 90 and 15% damage reduction), both the initial 5 secs and the time over which you loose power are modified by duration

- Both values recover if you spend time out of Hysteria, a full recovery takes 80 seconds, which is not modified by duration, but for every enemy killed, you get 1 second of recovery

- Life Drain and (Base) Energy costs are untouched, maybe add a little aggro to nearby enemies

I think the point of all of this was the invulnerability. 75% damage reducation + much higher damage + Life Drain sounds like a reasonable solution for "Hysteria" without setting the energy drain ridiculously higher. Aspecially in combination with the passiv to have resistance to knock down and knock over from the first quote.

I summarize:

V a l k y r

Passiv: Knockdown and knockover resistance. (She already has the nice but unnamed ability to always land on her feets, no matter the high of falling.)

First Ability: Ripline - I would keep it because it is very unique. Valkyr is a melee warframe. She needs something to get her into melee range or enemies to her into melee range. It is always very useful to draw heavy enemies from a far to her on the ground, so you can do a finisher. Saved my life several times against a Grinieer Napalm because he stops firing on the ground. You also can draw an Eximus out of his bubble to you to kill him. Ripline is one of her abilities I used most. Especially for movement. I combine it with parkour because you cannot use it everywhere because of obstacles. I do not know how often I used Ripline in Spy missions. Sometimes even to get out of sight. The thing is very useful if you know how to use it. And it is unique. No ones says that the first ability has to do high damage. Ripline works together with your melee weapon and so you speed-kill even higher enemies why they are on the ground. You have small damage to kill weakers enemies, so you need not to finish them after.

Second Ability: Warcry - Own: + armor, + attack Speed on melee, Allied: + Armor (Maybe attack speed or damage instead.), Enemies: - Speed. Maybe enemies also get panic and you kill them while running. This works with Valkyr's high mobility. You can chase them or "rip" them to you one by one.

Third Ability: Paralysis  - My idea: Stun to the enemies infront of her (for finisher) + AoE damage calculated from her amount of energy + "Intensify" and "Fokus" for more damage + "Reach" for range. Or remove the stun and make it a sole AoE damage with the same mechanic and with knock down on what is not killed by the damage instead of stun. I like this more because so you combine the damage pulse with some form of immobility and you have not these useless damage when you have no shield mods. If you not put in so much for energy resulating in damage the pulse still knocks down. The damage from the pulse balance the lack of damage of the first ability "Ripline". You get a damage ability later but for that a stronger one.

I like the idea that you have both tactical possibilities: Panic them or knock them down. Now comes a third: Aggro them.

Fourth Ability: Hysteria - Berserker-Mode: 75% damage reducation, + high damage + life drain. I find the thinking "Hyseria" should stay as long as possible according to killed enemies more fitting with the berserker theme, than make a energy based build to hold it a few seconds longer. Valkyr is not a caster! Energy should not be the factor BUT killed enemies. Rule: The more killed, the longer it stays, the more damage is inflicted to the next. THIS I would call a berserker which feasts on blood! I would remove that the damage is calculated from the melee weapon because it restricts too much to some weapons. I would calculate the damage and crit rate/damage level by mods and killed enemies. The aggro think is interesting because until now it costs time to reach the enemies while in "Hysteria". It is unfair. Better they focus on you when activating "Hysteria". This would give her crowd control in a team and you get things to kill to stay berserker. The life drain could work like "Pack Leader" based on inflicted damage and maybe a bonus if you kill one. It is a reversed invulnerability: She feasts on blood so to speak and this keeps her up. It would make her greatest weakness, masses of enemies, to her greates strange in this mode. For single enemies you use your other abilities.

 

So her abilities go from single targets to masses of enemies with crowd control options. Maybe it is overpowered now. I do not know. By melting and pursuing the given ideas from the comments I tried to draw the intention away from the invulnerability and spread it over her other abilities, so that she is not a "one hit pony", as you guys call it, but a round think with overall useful abilities instead of only one everyone is whining on. All based around the berserker theme: Around furious and bloodthirsty rage and fear of her enemies. I think that should have been the work of DE on her.

This is are my contribution to the discussion and thanks for the ideas.

Edited August 16, 2016 by PrometheanLegacy

[RadriarTheGodKing]

On 7/31/2016 at 9:38 PM, (PS4)Vampire223456789 said:

People don't care about Valkyr anymore.

We loyal fans of the frame do.

[(XBOX)iDEATH]

1 hour ago, RadriarTheGodKing said:

We loyal fans of the frame do.

Yup. I miss enjoying playing as her.

I think part of the problem is that before, even for people like me that didn't run around in Hysteria all that time, is that Valkyr was easy to play pretty much any way you wanted. When things got dicey, that fallback into Hysteria would get you out of it. With the way Hysteria works now, while that's still possible, it doesn't feel good. It especially doesn't feel good having to run away so you don't explode when Hysteria shuts off. As a result, this has served to highlight all the shortcomings in the rest of her kit, making that feeling of poopiness even more pronounced.

Valkyr was my favorite Warframe. She's benched right now, praying for a complete rework, because I just simply don't enjoy playing her in her current state.*

 

*I hear that consoles might not have the same version as PC, so I'll be checking things out tomorrow to see for myself. I'll report back.

[(XBOX)TheRoflLizard]

On 8/13/2016 at 9:17 AM, PrometheanLegacy said:

Hi there,

Valkyr is my Warframe of choice and it always will be no matter what they do to her. I post it into the torment lore. ^^ But I agree with most here and in other Valkyr threads. She needs work to be awesome and unique to play.

In my opinion these two ideas combined sound interesting:

+

I think the point of all of this was the invulnerability. 75% damage reducation + much higher damage + Life Drain sounds like a reasonable solution for "Hysteria" without setting the energy drain ridiculously higher. Aspecially in combination with the passiv to have resistance to knock down and knock over from the first quote.

I summarize:

V a l k y r

Passiv: Knockdown and knockover resistance. (She already has the nice but unnamed ability to always land on her feets, no matter the high of falling.)

First Ability: Ripline - I would keep it because it is very unique. Valkyr is a melee warframe. She needs something to get her into melee range or enemies to her into melee range. It is always very useful to draw heavy enemies from a far to her on the ground, so you can do a finisher. Saved my life several times against a Grinieer Napalm because he stops firing on the ground. You also can draw an Eximus out of his bubble to you to kill him. Ripline is one of her abilities I used most. Especially for movement. I combine it with parkour because you cannot use it everywhere because of obstacles. I do not know how often I used Ripline in Spy missions. Sometimes even to get out of sight. The thing is very useful if you know how to use it. And it is unique. No ones says that the first ability has to do high damage. Ripline works together with your melee weapon and so you kill speed kill even higher enemies why they are on the ground. You have small damage to kill weakers enemies, so you must not to finish them later.

Second Ability: Warcry - Own: + armor, + attack Speed on melee, Allied: + Armor (Maybe attack speed or damage instead.). Maybe enemies also get panic and you kill them while running. This works with Valkyr's high mobility. You can chase them or "rip" them to you one by one.

Third Ability: Paralysis  - My idea: Stun to the enemies infront of her (for finisher) + AoE damage calculated from her amount of energy + "Intensify" and "Fokus" for more damage + "Reach" for range. Or remove the stun and make it a sole AoE damage with the same mechanic and with knock down on what is not killed by the damage instead of stun. I like this more because so you combine the damage pulse with some form of immobility and you have not these useless damage when you have no shield mods. If you not put in so much for energy resulating in damage the pulse still knocks down. The damage from the pulse balance the lack of damage of the first ability "Ripline". You get a damage ability later but for that a stronger one.

I like the idea that you have both tactical possibilities: Panic them or knock them down. Now comes a third: Aggro them.

Fourth Ability: Hysteria - Berserker-Mode: 75% damage reducation, + high damage + life drain. I find the thinking "Hyseria" should stay as long as possible according to killed enemies more fitting with the berserker theme, than make a energy based build to hold it a few seconds longer. Valkyr is not a caster! Energy should not be the factor BUT killed enemies. Rule: The more killed, the longer stays, the more damage inflicted to the next. THIS I would call a berserker which feasts on blood! I would remove that the damage is calculated from the melee weapon because it restricts too much to some weapons. I would calculate the damage and crit rate/damage level, mods and by killed enemies. The aggro think is interesting because now it costs time to reach the enemies while in "Hysteria". Better they focus on you when activating "Hysteria". This would give her crowd control in a team and you get things to kill to stay berserker. The life drain could work like "Pack Leader" based on inflicted damage. It is a reversed invulnerability: She feasts on blood so to speak and this keeps her up. It would make her greatest weakness, masses of enemies, to her greates strange in this mode. For single enemies you use your other abilities.

 

You..You..you...Actually get the idea of how a Berserker works. However,still must bring up the mod (Rage).Like your idea,but rage is still a thing.

[(XBOX)TheRoflLizard]

3 hours ago, (XB1)iDEATH said:

Yup. I miss enjoying playing as her.

I think part of the problem is that before, even for people like me that didn't run around in Hysteria all that time, is that Valkyr was easy to play pretty much any way you wanted. When things got dicey, that fallback into Hysteria would get you out of it. With the way Hysteria works now, while that's still possible, it doesn't feel good. It especially doesn't feel good having to run away so you don't explode when Hysteria shuts off. As a result, this has served to highlight all the shortcomings in the rest of her kit, making that feeling of poopiness even more pronounced.

Valkyr was my favorite Warframe. She's benched right now, praying for a complete rework, because I just simply don't enjoy playing her in her current state.*

 

*I hear that consoles might not have the same version as PC, so I'll be checking things out tomorrow to see for myself. I'll report back.

She is still playable.But, her Hystra just feels less like a combat skill and more like a heathkit. Free advice however.Use rage. Found out the damage proc on her hystra will sometimes fuel rages effect.

[DarthValkyr]

9 hours ago, (XB1)TheRoflLizard said:

She is still playable.But, her Hystra just feels less like a combat skill and more like a heathkit. Free advice however.Use rage. Found out the damage proc on her hystra will sometimes fuel rages effect.

Shhhh DE will hear you! D:

[(XBOX)TheRoflLizard]

47 minutes ago, DarthValkyr said:

Shhhh DE will hear you! D:

It think that might be on purpose and not a glitch. So,really no point in hiding It.

[PrometheanLegacy]

20 hours ago, (XB1)TheRoflLizard said:

You..You..you...Actually get the idea of how a Berserker works. However,still must bring up the mod (Rage).Like your idea,but rage is still a thing.

Yes, if you have the mod. I do not. I do not have "Narrow Minded" either. But you need more than that. I do not like to fit serveral mods only focusing on energy. Valkyr alread has a very low pool. You cannot combine her abilities because in tough situations you save your energy for Hysteria the whole time to heal you. That is no fun. Other Warframe are more useful and not so depend. Of course, you always feel Valkyr high armor. Than, like I said in other thread, give us self-regeneration on health and energy. So we can save the energy mods for caster. This makes more sense in my eyes. I do not need the invulnerability of Valkyr. The possibility to heal combined with speed, damage and armour is enough. This is what makes a berserker. But for that I need 1) more useful abilities than "Hysteria" alone and b) more energy to cast them when I need them to clear the path. Therefore I can understand that many relied on "Hysteria". This was her most useful ability. Second place "Warcry", most combined. Instead of balancing the whole thing to fit a unique berserker playstyle they downgraded "Hysteria". If they had no good Idea for the whole Warframe than they should have let it like it was for god sake. I think the community would have tons of ideas how to rework Valkyr. Starting with removing the BDSM theme you see everywhere with her...