Excalibur Revisions Feedback [Post Update 18.13]

[Epsik-kun]

6 minutes ago, (PS4)JONAS_ORTIZ said:

it was super annoying to see

Close your eyes and believe.

[Circle_of_Psi]

9 hours ago, [DE]Danielle said:

Thank you for all of your feedback! After reviewing your feedback we’re happy to read that most of you feel Excalibur has returned to his former glory as a swordsman. With damage falloff linked to distance traveled, Exalted Blade now encourages up and close encounters with the enemy. 

We appreciate you testing him after his abilities have been tweaked and sharing your thoughts with the devs! 

Well, in that case I guess you can lock the topic?, if the team has all the feedback they need?, the only 2 things that need touching is the slide-blind thingy and the spin attacks.

[(PSN)Dragulish]

7 hours ago, Madho said:

I personally could care less about the wave damage and range falloff myself. But, without enough survivability for Excalibur, plus having a ridiculous slide blind cost (I personally use slide attacks subconsciously as a part of fluid motion when using EB), Excalibur will never be a true swordsman, because a true swordsman does not charge headlong into crossfire without the ability to survive the fight. Given the severe lack of wide and large maps, Excalibur can only do minimal parrying and dodging before landing a hit.

After reading many of these posts, Excalibur is hardly even close to "returned to his former glory". His slash dash has garbage mobility and travels randomly instead of in a straight line, both his radial blind and radial javelin are also garbage because you guys still haven't fixed the LoS bugs yet, and now you nerf EB because it overshadows his other abilities?  Why not buff his other abilities in the first place, instead of nerfing EB to oblivion? It's not useless and still dishes out a lot of dmg, sure, but there really isn't an incentive to use EB when you keep punishing us for using it, taking away both our survivability and energy for performing the simplest of motions and attacks. 

Would not be using Excalibur for EB at all because it's unusable for me right now. If your intentions are based on forcing me to drop EB, you have succeeded, but what's the point? Do we ever get enough compensation when not using EB? Is his other abilities worthwhile? Why even use EB when I'm getting punished for doing so? For once, Excalibur changes from a one trick pony spamming blind to trash with the LoS nerf which is still extremely buggy to this day, then buffed to be a one trick pony spamming EB, and now you nerf it back to garbage tier? Sorry DE, but if this is the best you could do with balancing, I'll just give up my starter and play another frame instead, while you prove that you are incapable of fixing the simplest of problems. 

Sorry for the slight ranting and wall of text even on mobile. I simply cannot bear to watch my favorite frame going down the drain. Forgive me if I'm being harsh.

To be entirely fair I think you are splitting hairs with the whole Swordsman bit. He is a space ninja just as they all are in spirit ,but a Swordsman is what he is. I hope you don't take any disrespect by it but radial blind and radial javelin being called trash makes me feel as though you really don't envest in your Excalibur enough, radial blind is one of the strongest abilities Excalibur has which is why it should cost more to be cast so quickly and easily while using exalted blade because it renders enemies susceptible to massive finisher damage with the multiplier of your melee weapon and exalted blades damage which scales to that. 

I tested my Excalibur after the update when it came out in fear of what has become of my favourite frame and ...he wasn't much different, I never slide blind so I didn't have that issue and when I needed to or need to, the cost isn't that awful but my range for it is little to none so I've no idea why people ever use it at all. My damage comes from my strongest blades, ones I temper and mod into weapons strong enough to kill anything that faces me eventually, and it wasn't worse at all. 

I always fought up close with Excalibur because why not ? Hitting enemies and getting within close quarters makes them attempt to melee you and that takes care of dealing with guns, roll and bullet jump to them or away, I don't mean to offend but Excalibur is worth more than the credit you're giving him, I could show you some builds for hime given that you don't mind a few forma, I've forma'd him at least 9 times now

 

Edit: slash dash is also super useful and I feel like you haven't given it a chance because it doesn't just go to random places, I can get an osprey a moa and a crewman (sorry drew) all in one use of it. Please use Excalibur a bit more and try combining his abilities, radial blind and slash dash would help you get close to your enemies. 

Edited July 20, 2016 by (PS4)JONAS_ORTIZ
Spell improvements and additions to post.

[ograzzt]

1 hour ago, (PS4)JONAS_ORTIZ said:

To stop spamming radial blind when you're using another ability already, it was super annoying to see others just sliding about blinding over and over again 

Range and duration are so absurdly small that it doesn't really matter. People used and using this mostly for mobility. And now you need to waste your energy for this by some reason. It punishing mobility and it's horrible. I'd prefer removing this blind on spin feature completely, it will be much better than what we have now.

[Guest]

28 minutes ago, (PS4)JONAS_ORTIZ said:

-snip-

As I have already REPEATEDLY stated in several Excalibur posts, I'm saying this a final time.

Slash Dash: Stopping RIGHT IN FRONT of an enemy is BY NO MEANS A GOOD DESIGN. This is nowhere near "good mobility". And you can still die between casts.

Radial Blind: I DO NOT CARE IF IT OPENS UP FINISHERS OR NOT. As long as the LoS glitch exists, I CANNOT BLIND ENEMIES AND THUS RENDERING ANY EFFECT STACKED ON IT USELESS. Go test it if you don't trust me. You'd be surprised how a lancer 10m away from you, shooting RIGHT IN FRONT OF YOU with PERFECT LOS, DOES NOT GET BLINDED SOMEHOW.

Radial Javelin. I have no words for this ability. It's garbage.

EB: I'll leave this to others.

[(PSN)Dragulish]

20 minutes ago, Madho said:

As I have already REPEATEDLY stated in several Excalibur posts, I'm saying this a final time.

Slash Dash: Stopping RIGHT IN FRONT of an enemy is BY NO MEANS A GOOD DESIGN. This is nowhere near "good mobility". And you can still die between casts.

Radial Blind: I DO NOT CARE IF IT OPENS UP FINISHERS OR NOT. As long as the LoS glitch exists, I CANNOT BLIND ENEMIES AND THUS RENDERING ANY EFFECT STACKED ON IT USELESS. Go test it if you don't trust me. You'd be surprised how a lancer 10m away from you, shooting RIGHT IN FRONT OF YOU with PERFECT LOS, DOES NOT GET BLINDED SOMEHOW.

Radial Javelin. I have no words for this ability. It's garbage.

EB: I'll leave this to others.

Perhaps me being on PS4 is a reason that I do not suffer from this glitch, however that doesn't render radial blind any less of a great ability simply because you are experiencing an unintended glitch behind it that can be fixed rather than it just being bad in design like you're making it sound. 

 

As for the slash dash I'm just going to have to say that you aren't using it right. Even if I had an issue with the range I would just get a bit closer to enemies, even if it doesn't kill them it knocks them down and can at least give you a chance to regroup yourself. 

 

And for Radial javelin and EB, maybe Excalibur just isn't for you ? Radial javelin could use a buff as its default instead of it being an augment mod but other than that the stagger is nice and insta killing a room full of enemies is nice too. And like I said, exalted blade isn't any less of an amazing ability, the warframe isn't nerf ed it is your patience and discipline with it that was. 

[Guest]

50 minutes ago, (PS4)JONAS_ORTIZ said:

you are experiencing an unintended glitch behind it that can be fixed

Which they still haven't patched after 5 major updates.

51 minutes ago, (PS4)JONAS_ORTIZ said:

As for the slash dash I'm just going to have to say that you aren't using it right. Even if I had an issue with the range I would just get a bit closer to enemies, even if it doesn't kill them it knocks them down and can at least give you a chance to regroup yourself. 

The key problem to Slash Dash is it's mobility. I don't care if it moves in a zig zag motion, as long as I reach my destination (X meters directly in front of me). But, as DE would've put it, I'm stopping in the middle of the path instead of reaching the displacement I'm supposed to cover. Slash Dash should reach the exact same spot, regardless of enemy presence.

54 minutes ago, (PS4)JONAS_ORTIZ said:

the stagger is nice and insta killing a room full of enemies is nice too.

I'll remember that for missions under level 40.

55 minutes ago, (PS4)JONAS_ORTIZ said:

And like I said, exalted blade isn't any less of an amazing ability, the warframe isn't nerfed it is your patience and discipline with it that was. 

I do know that Slash Dash can be a gap closer for EB, but the blind LoS simply ruined Excalibur for me, leaving it an ability with minimum survivability boosts. I simply can't melee enemies effectively because I was dying left and right.

Perfect balance of mobility and offense with a frame of 1.0 sprint speed? Pffft.

[(PSN)Dragulish]

19 minutes ago, Madho said:

 

At level 50 radial javelin staggers enemies for 7 seconds at 95, 3. 

Now I could see if we were asking for a tweak of the ability as is where the ability reflects either your melee weapon stats or power strength in damage but I can see that making Excalibur over powered and already imagine the rate at which players would sit in the middle of a map and spam it. 

Something I would see as balanced and fitting for Excalibur though would be if the mod staggered as its main thingoal for a duration of time determined by mods and enemies hit would result in a portion of each of their armor being given to Excalibur for a limited time. 

[Guest]

9 minutes ago, (PS4)JONAS_ORTIZ said:

At level 50 radial javelin staggers enemies for 7 seconds at 95, 3. 

I'd use Radial Blind or Paralysis if I wanted a stun.

11 minutes ago, (PS4)JONAS_ORTIZ said:

but I can see that making Excalibur over powered and already imagine the rate at which players would sit in the middle of a map and spam it. 

Remove that thing / completely rework it. Problem solved.

[Epsik-kun]

14 minutes ago, Madho said:

Remove that thing / completely rework it. Problem solved.

>Rework that thing

Problem solved.

>Make a perfectly balanced game

Problem solved.

>Cure all diseases

Problem solved.

>Make the world a better place

Problem solved.

[Guest]

4 minutes ago, Epsik-kun said:

>Rework that thing

Problem solved.

>Make a perfectly balanced game

Problem solved.

>Cure all diseases

Problem solved.

>Make the world a better place

Problem solved.

True, nonetheless. Every single game developer strives to balance their games, Warframe is of no exception. It's just that other games like League of Legends do a much better job at balancing, and they also have more experience doing so, so that no ability is left obsolete or be anywhere near garbage levels by creating a meta-game with future champion reworks and new champions destroying the current meta, leading to more playstyles and an interesting environment for players. Warframe however, does not follow the same pattern because it's not PvP, thus making it difficult to build a meta-game.

[Kurienno]

16 hours ago, [DE]Danielle said:

Thank you for all of your feedback! After reviewing your feedback we’re happy to read that most of you feel Excalibur has returned to his former glory as a swordsman. With damage falloff linked to distance traveled, Exalted Blade now encourages up and close encounters with the enemy. 

We appreciate you testing him after his abilities have been tweaked and sharing your thoughts with the devs! 

Did you read this thread?

The giant majority of this thread does not agree with Excalibur's Changes.

Most notably the Slide Attack Radial Blind. 

:/ great so that means its final then because clearly this thread was not read.

[[DE]Danielle]

44 minutes ago, Vindicative said:

Did you read this thread?

The giant majority of this thread does not agree with Excalibur's Changes.

Most notably the Slide Attack Radial Blind. 

:/ great so that means its final then because clearly this thread was not read.

Read through each page :) Don't worry, your feedback hasn't gone unnoticed! 

Edit: Also! Apologies if yesterday's post made it seem that we are unaware of the concerns you've expressed with Exalted Blade.

[Evanescent]

3 minutes ago, [DE]Danielle said:

Read through each page :) Don't worry, your feedback hasn't gone unnoticed! 

Does the team have any plans to realize some of the feedback anytime soon?

Thanks Danielle! <3

[Chroia]

Well, I still stand by my initial takes.

Excal Revisited feedback.

New changes:

On 6/7/2016 at 3:38 AM, Chroia said:

Would much, much have prefered that the waves' range be cut, leaving their damage untouched.
This doesn't make Excal less of a turret, just a less effective one.

And worse, it's not indicated anywhere. It's opaque, meaning it doesn't teach the player.

 

As to the energy cost on EB-spin, all I can say is 'ugh'.
As I said in the Dev workshop post that annouced it:

Quote

Correct me if I'm mistaken, but last I checked the EB slide attack had a range of ~6m unaffected by range, compared with RB's 25m at base on top of not opening enemies to finishers. Why on earth would I ever choose to use it over RB?

All that's done is made me stop using slide attacks while in EB.

Additions in red.

Edited July 20, 2016 by Chroia

[CerebrateJoe]

Since you're checking up.  I'd really LOVE an augment for Exalted Blade that gets rid the the ranged aspect altogether.  It's not that I think its bad, its not.  I just want to go even more melee with Excalibur.

Also, I'd like to see more synergy between Exalted Blade and Slash Dash.  Currently I have two builds, one for Exalted Blade and one for Slash Dash, because I find the energy drain to be problematic when combined.  I'm thinking this proposed augment could get rid of Exalted Blades drain-per-second.  Seems like a nice trade to go full melee?

Tenno, if you don't know, you have to try this combo.

 

[(PSN)Dragulish]

12 minutes ago, CerebrateJoe said:

Since you're checking up.  I'd really LOVE an augment for Exalted Blade that gets rid the the ranged aspect altogether.  It's not that I think its bad, its not.  I just want to go even more melee with Excalibur.

Also, I'd like to see more synergy between Exalted Blade and Slash Dash.  Currently I have two builds, one for Exalted Blade and one for Slash Dash, because I find the energy drain to be problematic when combined.  I'm thinking this proposed augment could get rid of Exalted Blades drain-per-second.  Seems like a nice trade to go full melee?

Tenno, if you don't know, you have to try this combo.

 

That's a nerf you're asking for there. 

[CerebrateJoe]

1 hour ago, (PS4)JONAS_ORTIZ said:

That's a nerf you're asking for there. 

Not at all.  Its an augment so it's entirely optional.  Just a change in playstyle.  And I think the trade-off of giving up range in favor of duration is a fair trade for those who want it.

Exhibit A.

[Guest]

7 hours ago, CerebrateJoe said:

Since you're checking up.  I'd really LOVE an augment for Exalted Blade that gets rid the the ranged aspect altogether.  It's not that I think its bad, its not.  I just want to go even more melee with Excalibur.

100% frontal parry should be a thing.

[(PSN)Dragulish]

11 hours ago, CerebrateJoe said:

 

It's not really that innovative and just makes exalted blade do less than what it does, for something such as more duration that could be added in with prime continuity, narrow minded and constitution. 

[CerebrateJoe]

1 minute ago, (PS4)JONAS_ORTIZ said:

It's not really that innovative and just makes exalted blade do less than what it does, for something such as more duration that could be added in with prime continuity, narrow minded and constitution. 

I'm not trying to reinvent Exalted Blade, just offer an idea about another playstyle that I'd like to try with it.  More-melee-less-range is a gameplay preference.  I don't think Exalted Blade needs to be redone.  I'm offering the idea of the Augment so players who want to opt-in have that choice.

As for the mods, it's a good combination, but I don't think you need to worry about Narrow Minded with Excalibur.  The drain-per-second difference is pretty negligible and it limits all three of his other abilities.

Primed Continuity, Constitution, and Streamline drop the drain to 0.96 eps.  The addition of Narrow Minded drops it to 0.63 eps, so while it's about a 30% drop, it's still ~0.3 energy per second.

[maxedpotato]

am i the only one who didn't see the need for nerfs in the first place? it's a pve game people.. jezus christ..

[_Iye]

On ‎5‎/‎28‎/‎2016 at 6:08 AM, Madho said:

The problem to Excalibur was never "Exalted Blade overshadows other abilities", it's just that his other abilities are borderline useless after the rework and pre-rework nerfs. Without a fully functional Exalted Blade, Excalibur would simply rot in everyone's shelves.

and he IS rotting in the shelves and even sometimes I do think that he is capturing a warframe slot for absolutely nothing. DE has nerfed him for some crazy nutshells screaming OP.OP.OP.OP where as for a balancing rework they couldve done by revising the drain calculation so that people use him wisely/smartly other than just squishing around the tileset all day long (even found some people getting annoyed of his sound effects....lolzz). Since the NERF I dont remember playing any mission with him but still he is my favorite one.

[Kurienno]

19 hours ago, [DE]Danielle said:

Read through each page :) Don't worry, your feedback hasn't gone unnoticed! 

Edit: Also! Apologies if yesterday's post made it seem that we are unaware of the concerns you've expressed with Exalted Blade.

Oh ._. Thank you then, much appreciated.

Sorry if I sounded hostile, didn't mean it to you specifically. As long as the major points of the thread got across

I also think the above idea of an Augment for Excalibur's EB would be neat. Remove the waves, increase the actual blades damage,  up the parry a little and increase the blade size? Kinda like Wukong's Primal Fury, a true melee ultimate.

Edited July 21, 2016 by Vindicative

[LunarEdge7]

5 hours ago, AhmadIYE said:

and he IS rotting in the shelves and even sometimes I do think that he is capturing a warframe slot for absolutely nothing. DE has nerfed him for some crazy nutshells screaming OP.OP.OP.OP where as for a balancing rework they couldve done by revising the drain calculation so that people use him wisely/smartly other than just squishing around the tileset all day long (even found some people getting annoyed of his sound effects....lolzz). Since the NERF I dont remember playing any mission with him but still he is my favorite one.

Now that I think about it.. they could remove the damage falloff or reduce it, and increase energy drain per second instead. It's super easy for Excalibur to stay in EB mode forever, and that's not really a good thing. It's called an ulti for a reason, to use it when you need a temporary huge boost of DPS, not a press-to-buff-forever melee-shooting ability.