Update 18.13 Passives Feedback

[Benjay]

My Views/Opinions

Ash - Great - This passive has nothing wrong with it as it's just a flat damage boost and it fits well with Ash as it suppose to increase his lethality as "The ninja" frame.

Banshee - Good - The passive is excellent as it helps banshee survival when nothing can hear her go guns blazing and has low aggro. However my only qualm with this is that it makes her silence ability a bit useless since the main purpose of it is to make others unaware of weapon fire which defeats the purpose of the ability, unless you use it for its stun purpose but, why would you even do that.

Ember - Why? - Are you promoting masochism? (Lol jk) But seriously why do I have to get hurt to gain benefits? I get it as it fits with this warframes theme of a pyromaniac but I personally don't want to go up in flames to receive benefits. I'll be lucky enough to find a relatively harmless fire patch in a level to get the passive but any enemy that can inflict fire usually will hurt way too much and end up killing me so its counter-intuitive. My recommendation give Ember a dmg reduction towards flame attacks to where it won't be a bad trade between dmg intake and passive benefits. (Philosophy of this passive - You have to get lit to get good.)

Hydroid - Meh - As a Hydroid main its not bad since I use Galatine ground slam combos to achieve his passive procs but, in practice its not realistic. Hydroid isn't exactly a melee frame he's a caster frame. I am however aware of the crazy stuff you can do with the passive by using fist weapons but, again I shouldn't be limited to a set of weapons for the passive to proc for a non-melee frame. Yet again its a passive so I shouldn't expect something phenomenal. I think for an interesting passive that's helpful and funny is that Hydroid's abilities leave water behind making terrain slippery causing enemies to trip.

Limbo - Hue - For limbo its in a rather awkward place. Personally I like this since it's kind of a way of tipping the scales to your favor. However people don't like this since it only applies to him while in the rift. I think the passive should have more where Limbo would fluctuate between perks in reality and the rift. While out of the rift he should have minor perks such as a small power strength boost when out of the void keep in mind this is just an example I thought of quickly so maybe something else instead.

Loki - Double Hue - Please why do I need 10x wall cling duration? I don't really utilize wall clinging in most of my missions to be really honest. I don't care for what they do for Loki's passive since Loki is already god tier with his augs and his kit so yeah Loki. You get a pass.

Mag - Meh - A vacuum effect for bullet jumping wow. Ok now don't get me wrong I think this is great for the newbie's who don't have access to things such as carrier or that kubrow that obtains loot for you but, it get out classed by our companions.

Nekros - Great - This passive was practically made for those who use the augment despoil but, it also is just helpful in general as you'll be doing a lot of killing so its like you always have regenerative health. Need I also mention it matches him perfectly as its like he's siphoning the souls of his foes.

Nova - Limited - This indeed has potential not gonna lie. It's like giving enemies their own taste of their own medicine. However on the point of knockdown it only renders the ppl close useless but not the ranged grappler such as scorpions or ancients most likely won't be affected. Besides I feel its not effective on corpus or grineer but great on infestation since they have to be close to even be affected by it at all.

Nyx - Good - I don't mind making my so called op enemy losing his weapon since I probably won't need him and I probably will find the same kind of that enemy. The argument about having tough enemies losing their weapons should't be really a problem since your probably already CCing the crap out of them.

Oberon - TILTED OFF THE CHARTS!!! - Ok look I see Oberon as a paladin and I don't mind that he's attuned with nature but wildlife is kinda useless in the current state. Not only that wildlife is very small an limited. (Don't tell me they'll add more wild life as an excuse because that doesn't help Obi at all) I feel as if Oberon should instead have an aura to benefit himself as a team player or maybe have him gain perks when in the light.

Trinity - Great - As for the Medic of Warframe I expect no less but this passive is quite helpful to get allies up in a pinch. However my only qualm is that people tend to have Vazarin's new moon passive but that's just a minor thing.

Vauban - Meh - Now I don't mind this passive as caster frames are as all hell squishy so its quite a bonus. However it's only worth it if it's the prime version of Vauban as you can see with these calculations. (Prime with 3 allies = 175 armor/ Normal with 3 allies = 87.5) I will not include LoR since its a thing you do once a day so its not commonly done every mission. The issue that you need to be with people to even have the passive is quite questionable since Warframe is co-op intense game so you'll always have people.

Volt - Meh - I love the idea of this passive but, it's rare that I'll even get 1,000 points stacked up to do the maximum amount of dmg since I always am shooting my gun, hell I'll even be lucky to have 100 points. I think how you build your passive or consume it should be changed to more of a manageable system.

[(PSN)HELLHOUND_ROCKO]

5 hours ago, ZoneDymo said:

Good passives:
 

Rhino - ish (very situational, would be better if the "heavy impact" could also be triggered by melee slam attack for added damage (and control for the player))

are you serious? or are you maybe just playing on a different system than me and this passive is behaving different there from how it does on my system (PS4) for me? because for me - not only is it's intended ability radius so unbelievably tiny that it has like no chance to be useful ever even if it would work - but it doesn't even just work!! like +65% when hosting and like +90%  when being the client, it when it triggers even just 1 centimeter right next to an enemy - all it does trigger is a noise and a visual effect on my screen but leaves the enemy entirely unaffected! 

 

so what does that result in? in being a "good-ish passive" like you first suggested? i'd strongly suggest to rethink this judgement as what it in reality results in is instead a "power" that in average will entirely redundant knockback one single random enemy per whole day of playing Rhino normally. in this entirely broken state this passive is in ATM - it is, asides from the sound and visual effect, way much more "not even just existent at all" than "good-ish" or anything else IMO. 

[Aquasurge]

6 hours ago, Benjay said:

Volt - Meh - I love the idea of this passive but, it's rare that I'll even get 1,000 points stacked up to do the maximum amount of dmg since I always am shooting my gun, hell I'll even be lucky to have 100 points. I think how you build your passive or consume it should be changed to more of a manageable system.

here's an idea!

"Volt now has an increased chance for enemies to drop energy orbs which now  on pick up add +750 electric damage (per energy orb) to his next attack. If volt's energy pool is full - the electric damage bonus will double (per orb) on the next pick up of an energy orb".

[Mimikrist]

9 hours ago, Benjay said:

My Views/Opinions

Ash - Great - This passive has nothing wrong with it as it's just a flat damage boost and it fits well with Ash as it suppose to increase his lethality as "The ninja" frame.
 

All frames are some kind of ninjas... Im really done with this... Theres no logic in almost all passives and im seeing why...

Edited June 20, 2016 by Mimikrist

[Aquasurge]

33 minutes ago, Mimikrist said:

All frames are some kind of ninjas... Im really done with this... Theres no logic in almost all passives and im seeing why...

ash is more of an assassin than a ninja

[TheMortemShadow]

On ‎6‎/‎13‎/‎2016 at 11:33 PM, EX-Zanki said:

Well I do like Nyx passive... its rng based, its a powerful effect ... for me its a nice plus that comes better than becoming friends of the animals or vacumm jump if you ask me... its a good plus (its a disarm), and who said it should be Loki's exclusivity?...after all Loki is already into Nyx territory with that augment, so the reverse is forbidden?

Btw, if it ever gets changed... i swear it won't be as useful as the current one... and you will get again into complaining... and the cicle will repeat----

Am i lying?...

That's your opinion, but any other passive will be good with Nyx at the moment. The passive hurts several playstyles and it's the only passive to do so. Plus, although Loki is in Nyx territory, it really isn't because Irridiating Disarm wasn't like Chaos because Chaos didn't disarm enemies until now, it was still mechanically different, but now it's too similar even though Nyx only disarms a handful of enemies. I'm sure any other actual Nyx player won't complain about any other passive because we see how this passive hurts her in several situations, and you can argue that we could just change our build or playstyle, but that shouldn't happen with a passive. Nyx's passive is the only one to force us to have to change our playstyle, all other passives are either useless in several situations (but don't hurt them) or the passive will help them in a certain situation and be useless in other situations (like Frost's where it's useful to him when he gets melee attacked). Nyx's passive has benefits, don't get me wrong, it's great CC, but it's CC that's not useful to Nyx, like what if I wanted to MC an enemy that I just MCed, but now it's disarmed after MC ends? Which trust me, has happened several times already when I was testing this passive. I've explained how flawed this passive is too many times to explain all the cons, so you can find it on the 3rd page of this thread. It's flawed for Nyx and any other passive most Nyx players will be happy with as it won't hurt their playstyle.

[Hayzemet]

Trins passive is redundant and frankly useless, a passive meant for a little extra damage would be nice. 

[MacabreHaze]

I still maintain Loki's passive is pretty dang good, at least for my play style. Of course I'm a Sniper though, so being able to get that sniper perch just about anywhere is good stuff. 


Only issue I have is just how bad some maps are. In Ceres there is an area where you eventually find an invisible floor/ceiling. Other times if you go just a little too high, (Like the desert planet) you get poofed back to the ground, despite the area clearly having the standard appearances for the 'run here'. 

[Vrcross]

I think most of the passives need a buff including ones that were already in the game. The question is, do passives really need to suck like some of them do? Hydroid's should be 100% chance. Ember's should be on enemy fire proc not on herself. Valkyr's should be handspring levels of fast. Passives like Ash's, Mesa's and excalibur's are fine because they are always useful, but some of the other's abilities are plainly insignificant jokes.

[Epsik-kun]

8 minutes ago, Vrcross said:

excalibur's

it provides like 4% dps increase. It's the opposite of "useful".

[MacabreHaze]

20 minutes ago, Epsik-kun said:

it provides like 4% dps increase. It's the opposite of "useful".

I think you're confused on the opposite of useful. 

The opposite would be -4% DPS decrease. 

[Epsik-kun]

Just now, MacabreHaze said:

The opposite would be -4% DPS decrease. 

That would be "harmful" which is the opposite of "beneficial". Excalibur's passive however is "useless".

[MacabreHaze]

Damage increase is damage increase. And even the slightest bit of damage increase will forever be useful. Is it a lot of damage increase? no it isn't. But it is more damage for nothing. Now if it was a mod that increased your damage by 4%, sure. When you compare it with other mods, it would be useless. Because all the other mods outclass it in damage. 

Edited June 20, 2016 by MacabreHaze

[Terrornaut]

I am not sure how seriously DE took this passive work after the hundreds of posts and requests. It is very sad, and I don't mean in some insulting way. It is just saddening that this is what they've done with all of our feedback.

[Dragazer]

9 hours ago, Mimikrist said:

All frames are some kind of ninjas... Im really done with this... Theres no logic in almost all passives and im seeing why...

Yes with the parkour system it can be said that all frames are in some form a ninja, but Ash is the only frame whose theme is based solely on the traditional image of a ninja (In design and abilities).

You'll have a hard time convincing someone that Rhino, Frost or Chroma are ninjas with their design and abilities 

Edited June 20, 2016 by Dragazer

[Epsik-kun]

6 hours ago, MacabreHaze said:

Damage increase is damage increase. And even the slightest bit of damage increase will forever be useful. Is it a lot of damage increase? no it isn't. But it is more damage for nothing. Now if it was a mod that increased your damage by 4%, sure. When you compare it with other mods, it would be useless. Because all the other mods outclass it in damage. 

Sure, as soon as it'll make you do a swing less to kill something. Spoiler alert - it never will.

[KittyDarkling]

7 hours ago, MacabreHaze said:

Damage increase is damage increase. And even the slightest bit of damage increase will forever be useful. Is it a lot of damage increase? no it isn't. But it is more damage for nothing. Now if it was a mod that increased your damage by 4%, sure. When you compare it with other mods, it would be useless. Because all the other mods outclass it in damage. 

I have to agree with Epsik-kun, You can't compare a 4% dmg mod to other better damage mods, but what does that say about comparing Excal's 4% to Ash's what was it? 30%?

Edited June 21, 2016 by KittyDarkling
typos

[LazerusKI]

•    Banshee: Eeeh arguable. Silence was once meant to do that, right? Will it get a rework now?
•    Ember: Totally useless! There are like 5 "Non Boss" Enemies that can actually Ignite, 4 of them are Grineer (Flameblade, Scorch, Napalm, Catlady), the one Corpus unit is the Fusion Moa...so basically this is a passive to sit in Burning Tiles?
•    Loki: For what exactly? is there any reason to cling on a wall with Loki? You know...Loki has Stealth, he doesnt care about that stuff
•    Mag: So...no Vacuum for the other Sentinels then? :(
•    Nyx: Useless again. Whats the reason to let enemies fight against eachother unarmed?
•    Oberon: Another useless one. There is not that much wildlife anyway.
•    Vauban: So...screw Solo players? Thats a bad one. A Frame Passive shouldnt rely on other players.

[MacabreHaze]

15 hours ago, Epsik-kun said:

Sure, as soon as it'll make you do a swing less to kill something. Spoiler alert - it never will.

Except that swinging less isn't what DPS is about is it? Swinging less is straight up damage. Attack speed be damned. So what you should have said "Sure as soon as it'll make you have 1 second less combat" But that doesn't sound as good with your little spoiler alert 'zinger'. Cause If you have an enemy with 1 hp and one with 1000 hp, how munch damage do they do? 

Its the same amount, baring some special boss types that do more damage the more they are damaged. So if you're running around with Oberon (Who actually has a useless passive) and you're doing 999 points of damage to 1000 hp enemies.. Well you're still having to swing one more time. So while the damage is a gnats but hair, it could theoretically allow you to swing one less time, end combat 1 second sooner

13 hours ago, KittyDarkling said:

I have to agree with Epsik-kun, You can't compare a 4% dmg mod to other better damage mods, but what does that say about comparing Excal's 4% to Ash's what was it? 30%?

25% increase on Slash Procs. Not all weapon damage. Not even all slashing damage. Only when you proc slashing damage. Which According to the wiki, does only a measily 35% of your weapon's base damage. This is increased to 43.75% of the weapon base damage when you get the slash proc. ((Unless it is something like 35+25=60%, which I do not believe it to be)) 

This is also only really effective against flesh targets. So A good amount of Corpus, and some grineer are out. Especially since to be able to use it, you have to have a slashing weapon, so that slashing damage takes a 50% decrease in your damage against alloy armor, 15% against ferrite armor. (There is a reason why people want puncture weapons against grineer and say that slashing weapons are horrible against them.) Or with Corpus you've got a 25% decrease against their robots, which is a pretty good number of their units. 

But even then I wouldn't say that Ash's ability is useless. Its not as great as a straight up 25% damage increase, but more damage is more damage. 

Also Epsik isn't saying it is a 4% damage increase. He's stating a +4% damage per second increase, bit of a difference there and frankly I don't know where he's getting his number. Excailiber's real ability is a +10% increase to damage +10% increase to attack speed when using swords. This allows the Excailiber the ability to switch between Slash or Puncture at the very least, as I do not know of any sword type weapons that do high impact. Maybe there is one. Maybe not

 

 

 

 

[RealPandemonium]

25 minutes ago, MacabreHaze said:

Except that swinging less isn't what DPS is about is it? Swinging less is straight up damage. Attack speed be damned. So what you should have said "Sure as soon as it'll make you have 1 second less combat" But that doesn't sound as good with your little spoiler alert 'zinger'. Cause If you have an enemy with 1 hp and one with 1000 hp, how munch damage do they do? 

Its the same amount, baring some special boss types that do more damage the more they are damaged. So if you're running around with Oberon (Who actually has a useless passive) and you're doing 999 points of damage to 1000 hp enemies.. Well you're still having to swing one more time. So while the damage is a gnats but hair, it could theoretically allow you to swing one less time, end combat 1 second sooner

25% increase on Slash Procs. Not all weapon damage. Not even all slashing damage. Only when you proc slashing damage. Which According to the wiki, does only a measily 35% of your weapon's base damage. This is increased to 43.75% of the weapon base damage when you get the slash proc. ((Unless it is something like 35+25=60%, which I do not believe it to be)) 

This is also only really effective against flesh targets. So A good amount of Corpus, and some grineer are out. Especially since to be able to use it, you have to have a slashing weapon, so that slashing damage takes a 50% decrease in your damage against alloy armor, 15% against ferrite armor. (There is a reason why people want puncture weapons against grineer and say that slashing weapons are horrible against them.) Or with Corpus you've got a 25% decrease against their robots, which is a pretty good number of their units. 

But even then I wouldn't say that Ash's ability is useless. Its not as great as a straight up 25% damage increase, but more damage is more damage. 

Also Epsik isn't saying it is a 4% damage increase. He's stating a +4% damage per second increase, bit of a difference there and frankly I don't know where he's getting his number. Excailiber's real ability is a +10% increase to damage +10% increase to attack speed when using swords. This allows the Excailiber the ability to switch between Slash or Puncture at the very least, as I do not know of any sword type weapons that do high impact. Maybe there is one. Maybe not

In my test case Excalibur's passive boosted DPS by 12.5%.

I'm less than happy with Epsik's caustic approach to these discussions, but his posts are more eloquent and substantiated (if hard to read due to the attitude sometimes) than most.  Your attempt to challenge his claims is a total disaster and you make everyone who disagrees with him look like a fool by association.  Do not make such claims and attempt to participate in the discussion in this way if you don't know what you're talking about; you only make things much, much worse for yourself and your cause.  

Edited June 21, 2016 by RealPandemonium

[MacabreHaze]

2 minutes ago, RealPandemonium said:

In my test case Excalibur's passive boosted DPS by 12.5%.

I'm less than happy with Epsik's caustic approach to these discussions, but his posts are more eloquent and substantiated (if hard to read due to the attitude sometimes) than most.  Your attempt to dismantle his claims is a total disaster and you make everyone who disagrees with him look like a fool by association.  Do not make such claims and attempt to participate in the discussion in this way if you don't know what you're talking about; you only make things much, much worse for yourself and your cause.  

O.K.

[Epsik-kun]

9 minutes ago, MacabreHaze said:

Sure as soon as it'll make you have 1 second less combat

Alright, as soon as it'll make you have one second less combat. Spoiler alert - that'll happen in a month or so.

 

You don't seem to understand, that Excal's passive bonuses are additive, not multiplicative. 10% damage increase indeed exists, however it is 10% from the base damage. You are guaranteed to use Pressure Points on your melee, which will drop your damage increase to 4.5%, very likely to use Steel Charge, which will drop it to 3.5%. Using Spoiled Strike on top of that will bring it to 2.6% of damage increase. Awesome, isn't it?

More to it, I am not even sure that attack speed bonus exists to begin with. Because if it does, it is literally impossible to notice the difference with and without unless you're to record a video and count down the frames. Which I am going to do one day just to calm myself down. The placement of the passive attack speed in the formula is so magical, it simultaneously manages to not have any scaling effect on three different multiplicative attack speed bonuses we currently have (I am not counting AS boost from abilities of other frames here). AND to not offset negative AS of Spoiled Strike in any way.

 

Meanwhile, Ash's passive is absurd, as you obviously have no idea about what the hell slash proc is and how powerful 25% damage increase and 50% duration increase for someone who has an access to an easy and guaranteed way of landing these slash procs across multiple enemies. To make it even more clear, if Excal were to have the passive of Ash in exchange for his own passive, he would get several times the profit of what he currently gets. And that's Excal, who has no guaranteed ways of landing slash procs.

There's also that little thing, that pretty much the strongest melee weapon category in the game currently has access to guaranteed devastating slash procs.

[Lancars]

Oberons should also benefit your kubrow and kavat :o Give it a boost in health or something.

[corrosivePaladin]

I wanted to give myself time before giving any feedback.

Vaun's passive doesn't make sense. I thought he was tech based support. With his net, tesla, and blackhole traps. Ignoring all the new traps his rework grants. Why would he gain armor? Shields qould more sense, but then that 25% per player nearby would be op.

I personally never notice mag's passive.  As her powers are worthless compared to carrier's collection power. Letting you collect mods and mats without the worry of how bad the host's lag it. Besides how big its collection radius is.

Oberon's passive seems to have nothing to do with him and more of his goat lord joke. Let alone how they are temporary and will bite your butt the second it drops. He remains a untanking frame with a support tank's title, paladin. Even his new phoenix revival aug misses the mark with the regen loving to stop at the exact moment you die. Making it just a wasted slot.

Most of the others seem fine though. Ember asks you to risk the glasscannon to take damage for more damage. Ivara gives you a free radar. Simple but actually useful from time to time. And great in conclave. Even banshee and her free silenced weapons has its uses.

 

Its only Oberon and Vaundun that seem to have unmatching passives.

 

Honestly for oberon id rather see a passive like a builtin electromagnetic shielding. Pulling damage away from allies at a decent range [not the augs baby range] to protect them. Like how often rpgs place the protect ability/passive on the knight/paladin class.

Edited June 25, 2016 by corporatePaladin
Looking at a lot of stuff from a phone screen makea it easy to forget some things.

[blaes]

So, after some time to test some of the passives, my opinion hasn't changed and I stand my words :

 

On 28/3/2016 at 11:20 PM, blaes said:

Hi fellow tennos.

 

I feel that the current system to pick up loot is somewhat underwhelming and lackluster. Walking up to a drop to pick it up is pretty standard in games and generally works quite well, but in Warframe, given the profusion of loot and the fast-paced action, this can be quite bothersome. Zigzagging all throughout a room to get all the loot slows you down quite a bit, and tends to break the pace of the game.

There are some ways around it (namely carrier/prime), and those bring such a difference in gameplay that it's almost the only companion you see, apart from the occasional kubrow.

 

What I suggest is to make vacuum a passive for all warframes (instead of just giving to mag during her rework).

make it activate on all advanced movements (roll, slide, double jump, bullet jump, parkour, basically everything that inst a simple run/sprint/jump), with a 5m radius range boosted by 50% 25% of your loot radar bonus (thief's wit, animal instinct, loot detector).

 

rework carrier/prime so that he stores everything you don't use right away, and feed them to you when you need them (reloading a weapon, using energy, loosing life, etc).

finally, find another passive specifically for mag's rework.

 

what say you?