Should a New Members' / Players' Help Chat room be added to the game?

[Rhekemi]

A dedicated chat room/channel for new players, or anyone who may need help, tips, advice and guidance would be great.

This would be great for people who need help, and those who want to give them assistance.

Strawpoll:

http://www.strawpoll.me/10357535

Thread where this got mentioned recently (though I'd be surprised if you told me it's never been brought up before):

What each of us think of Region or moderation is irrelevant to the topic's question, just citing where it got mentioned recently (thus this thread).

Edited May 31, 2016 by Rhekemi

[RootVI]

I personally think this is a fantastic idea.

The game itself is extremely hard on new players...I'd like to see this implemented tbh.

[MagPrime]

It would be nice.  Several games have a designated help channel, Warframe would benefit from one.

Just please no MR locks or anything else restrictive. Help is help, regardless of experience or play time.

Edited May 31, 2016 by Noamuth
I hate this phone.

[Eminem2420]

I think it would be a great idea.

[Stratego89]

Yes. I've been saying so for FOREVER. My personal belief is that until a player is AT LEAST through the tutorial- they should not have access to region chat (for many reasons...), instead having access to a newbie chat with other newbies, guides of the lotus, and other random players that feel like hanging out and helping people who have questions.

[Freezing-Dragon]

Good idea. Maybe should put this in Suggestion and Idea.

New member chat shouldn't have restriction. If this has been implement for new players, it will help them greater, hopefully be able to advance their Mastery Rank.

Region Chat should be close for new players since sometimes Region Chat don't even help.. They either ignore or so, new players tend to send invite to them too. Maybe more than just Newbie chat though, a newbie recruiting chat(?).

[MagPrime]

Could be an all in one chat, help and recruitment.  There have been a couple times I was dinged for "recruiting" newbies from Region.

I knew they weren't comfortable with recruiting, so I just asked if any newbie wanted a hand. Got a pm about encouraging people to misuse Region, was kind of funny.

[DuskLegendary]

I actually support this idea 100%. It seems every day we have tons of new players coming into region and asking very basic questions (Hey look, the game is growing) which I'm not opposed too, but more often than not they just get told, "Go look on the Wiki." Which, you know, that's not bad advice, but if there was actually a proper channel for new players, they could get the help they were really after. +1 OP.

[Telluric]

I really like the idea, honestly. It would be a lot easier to reach out to the people just starting, and providing assistance for people who are too afraid to ask a place like region chat for help. Plus, it would be a channel where Junior Guides could easily focus a lot of their efforts, and actively pursue helping players instead of trying to pick them out one by one in region. When I was a brand new player, after my friends quit the game on me, I tried turning to region chat for help, and got pretty banged up because of it. The ratio of helpful players to scumbags is 1:10 and it can seriously be a matter of continuing to play or quit for some people. I know that I wanted to stop playing for awhile after the things that were said to me when I tried asking questions.

Perhaps the caustic nature of region frequenting players varies by what server they're on, but for the most part, there aren't many friendly faces at an initial glance. It can be a rude awakening, especially to someone new, and perhaps new to global chats as well.

My only concern would be that it would just dissolve into another cesspool like region, which is why I think it would be really good to have some more secure features implemented. Maybe limiting it to MR 8 and below, and allowing the Guides of the Lotus and other chat moderators to be in there to help. Perhaps MR-locking isn't the best thing, but if there are high MR players that want to help, they can apply to be Guides of the Lotus. The only reason why I think it should be MR-locked is because if it's not, players who have been here a lot longer are very likely to just sit around and troll people, as they do in region, and as someone who sits around in region chat, in 3 different regions, depending on the time of day, I can tell you that there are plenty of people who would do just that. They wouldn't be there to help; it would just be a secondary region chat to them.

I think it's a wonderful idea; it would just need a lot of time, effort, and great consideration put into it before it could become something in the game. It could either be really good, or it could be a complete disaster.

[RootVI]

How about when a question is asked in the chat any pm's sent through that chat open as a sort of ticket. After the player gives his advice it's listed as very helpful, helpful, unhelpful, very unhelpful etc 

If the player is given unhelpful/very unhelpful feedback too many times they will be monitored if very helpful, helpful is given perhaps they can be given a community help mark or something + other rewards.

[Maicael]

I think this would be a good idea.

I'd also think a "coaching" system could be helpful. Perhaps an experienced player joins a squad with a newer player, and maybe an option to be limited to same/similar equipment and mods as the newer player. This would give the coach a better idea of what they have available, how to make the most of it, and suggestions on what to get next. Also, if as an experienced player you can't handle something with their equipment, then you probably shouldn't be taking them there either.

Regulations on who could be a coach along with some kind of coaching quality checks to eliminate frustrating/unhelpful/trolling players from being coaches would also have to be put in place.

(Got this idea from an episode of the anime Log Horizon)

[RagDollRat]

A definate yes, for two reasons 

1.Daily i see newbies ask questions in trade/recruiting

2.You can disable your ability to see any of the random chats so it would in no way be a bother for anyone since you could just shut it off if you dont use it

[Gilmaesh]

Of course it would be a good idea, i has been asked many times before but nothing has been done about it. And it doesn't need to be about new players only, a general help tab could be for anyone who has a question concerning the game.

[Larred]

it does need good restrictions so it doesnt turn into a second recruiting chat but i would watch this all day to help people

[PiggyKid]

Good idea.

[Fifield]

The game badly needs something to guide new players.  Actual guides, if DE have any left, can only sit in relays -- which new players aren't going to get to for a while.

I would suggest that there be a MR limit of 3 or 4, that helpers be annotated and this would be a privilege done on recommendation.  Players would be able to apply somehow, be vetted and be given 'apprentice' status.

Perhaps you graduate from that into another Help chat which has no restrictions but is monitored for off-topic stuff.  Regional would be renamed General Chat.

 

 

Edited May 31, 2016 by Fifield

[Rhekemi]

11 hours ago, Noamuth said:

It would be nice.  Several games have a designated help channel, Warframe would benefit from one.

Just please no MR locks or anything else restrictive. Help is help, regardless of experience or play time.

I also don't think an MR restriction is helpful. As stated in my OP, the chat should be open to anyone who needs help in the way of information or tips on weapons, etc.

The DC chat is a good example of this. There are veterans there who not only know the existing content through and through, they fastidiously test new content and gear to learn more.

Ideally, everyone should do that, but many don't. For the veterans who are willing to help noobs and casuals alike, a member help...no, scratch that...a "Players Helping Players" or simply "Players' Help" chat would be great

Yes, low MR / new players need more help than everyone.

 

11 hours ago, Stratego89 said:

Yes. I've been saying so for FOREVER. My personal belief is that until a player is AT LEAST through the tutorial- they should not have access to region chat (for many reasons...), instead having access to a newbie chat with other newbies, guides of the lotus, and other random players that feel like hanging out and helping people who have questions.

When I started playing, I'm pretty sure trading and recruiting were locked. Had to manually turn them on in settings.

The same could be done with a Players' Help chat for all new accounts. Lock region, recruiting and trading.

11 hours ago, Freezing-Dragon said:

Good idea. Maybe should put this in Suggestion and Idea.

New member chat shouldn't have restriction. If this has been implement for new players, it will help them greater, hopefully be able to advance their Mastery Rank.

Region Chat should be close for new players since sometimes Region Chat don't even help.. They either ignore or so, new players tend to send invite to them too. Maybe more than just Newbie chat though, a newbie recruiting chat(?).

On your first point, seems like a mod has moved it, but I intended the topic for general discussion.

That way we have not only a solid number of votes to show how the community feels about it, but we also continue to develop the idea, brainstorm.

The thread was not intended as a completed idea/suggestion for DE to look over yet, as I figured we'd do that with the refined idea.

I'd rather DE read that refined suggestion after we, the community, finish ironing it out.

Unsure yet if I will request a move back.

Completely agreed on your other two points.

11 hours ago, Noamuth said:

Could be an all in one chat, help and recruitment.  There have been a couple times I was dinged for "recruiting" newbies from Region.

I knew they weren't comfortable with recruiting, so I just asked if any newbie wanted a hand. Got a pm about encouraging people to misuse Region, was kind of funny.

It has a benefit (recruiting there), but I still think we have to help them.learn to use the proper recruiting channel.

I have newer friends I really like helping, but sometimes it seems like they aren't helping themselves by not taking my advice to use recruiting when I'm not online. Sometimes they just prefer to solo, or do it with other buddies, though.

11 hours ago, Telluric said:

I really like the idea, honestly. It would be a lot easier to reach out to the people just starting, and providing assistance for people who are too afraid to ask a place like region chat for help. Plus, it would be a channel where Junior Guides could easily focus a lot of their efforts, and actively pursue helping players instead of trying to pick them out one by one in region. When I was a brand new player, after my friends quit the game on me, I tried turning to region chat for help, and got pretty banged up because of it. The ratio of helpful players to scumbags is 1:10 and it can seriously be a matter of continuing to play or quit for some people. I know that I wanted to stop playing for awhile after the things that were said to me when I tried asking questions.

Perhaps the caustic nature of region frequenting players varies by what server they're on, but for the most part, there aren't many friendly faces at an initial glance. It can be a rude awakening, especially to someone new, and perhaps new to global chats as well.

My only concern would be that it would just dissolve into another cesspool like region, which is why I think it would be really good to have some more secure features implemented. Maybe limiting it to MR 8 and below, and allowing the Guides of the Lotus and other chat moderators to be in there to help. Perhaps MR-locking isn't the best thing, but if there are high MR players that want to help, they can apply to be Guides of the Lotus. The only reason why I think it should be MR-locked is because if it's not, players who have been here a lot longer are very likely to just sit around and troll people, as they do in region, and as someone who sits around in region chat, in 3 different regions, depending on the time of day, I can tell you that there are plenty of people who would do just that. They wouldn't be there to help; it would just be a secondary region chat to them.

I think it's a wonderful idea; it would just need a lot of time, effort, and great consideration put into it before it could become something in the game. It could either be really good, or it could be a complete disaster.

I hear you, but it seems like there are more benefits to no MR restrictions.

Moderation, I think, would be enough. Trolling doesn't last long in recruiting or trading--this new chat should be similarly tough on trolling.

11 hours ago, snapcracklepop said:

How about when a question is asked in the chat any pm's sent through that chat open as a sort of ticket. After the player gives his advice it's listed as very helpful, helpful, unhelpful, very unhelpful etc 

If the player is given unhelpful/very unhelpful feedback too many times they will be monitored if very helpful, helpful is given perhaps they can be given a community help mark or something + other rewards.

As a more advanced system, there's room for those ideas.

A basic chat as a staring place will let DE judge how effective a more advanced system could be.

10 hours ago, Maicael said:

I think this would be a good idea.

I'd also think a "coaching" system could be helpful. Perhaps an experienced player joins a squad with a newer player, and maybe an option to be limited to same/similar equipment and mods as the newer player. This would give the coach a better idea of what they have available, how to make the most of it, and suggestions on what to get next. Also, if as an experienced player you can't handle something with their equipment, then you probably shouldn't be taking them there either.

Regulations on who could be a coach along with some kind of coaching quality checks to eliminate frustrating/unhelpful/trolling players from being coaches would also have to be put in place.

(Got this idea from an episode of the anime Log Horizon)

Same as above. Good ideas for a more advanced system, but this is slightly more feasible: something similar to the sortie weapon restriction system, or the cumulative conclave number restriction on all our gear in some tactical alerts/events.

4 hours ago, Gilmaesh said:

Of course it would be a good idea, i has been asked many times before but nothing has been done about it. And it doesn't need to be about new players only, a general help tab could be for anyone who has a question concerning the game.

Yes, as mentioned in the OP, it should be for all players who need information/help from those more experienced and willing to assist them.

3 hours ago, Larred said:

it does need good restrictions so it doesnt turn into a second recruiting chat but i would watch this all day to help people

Agreed, and it would encourage me to go back to helping when I have time.

1 hour ago, Fifield said:

The game badly needs something to guide new players.  Actual guides, if DE have any left, can only sit in relays -- which new players aren't going to get to for a while.

I would suggest that there be a MR limit of 3 or 4, that helpers be annotated and this would be a privilege done on recommendation.  Players would be able to apply somehow, be vetted and be given 'apprentice' status.

Perhaps you graduate from that into another Help chat which has no restrictions but is monitored for off-topic stuff.  Regional would be renamed General Chat.

 

 

Here, again, we're looking at a more advanced system.

It could work, but I think getting DE interested in (and letting them see the value of) a basic, "barebones" Players' Help chat should be our priority.

The more there is to code (and without "proof" we will use it / not abuse it) developers the world over can sometimes be less interested in new things.

[Telluric]

18 minutes ago, Rhekemi said:

I hear you, but it seems like there are more benefits to no MR restrictions.

Moderation, I think, would be enough. Trolling doesn't last long in recruiting or trading--this new chat should be similarly tough on trolling.

It's like you didn't read a single thing I wrote.

I'm a Senior Guide of the Lotus; half of what I do in Warframe nowadays is sit my butt in region chat and monitor what's going on. I frequent three of them: EU in the morning, NA-W in the evening, and Asia/OCE when I'm up late at night. And I can tell you that if we had a chat with no restrictions at all, it would become another region chat. I've gotten to know a lot of the player base over the past year or so, and becoming Guide only helped me to become more immersed, and as such, I've gotten pretty well-versed with how people in global chats act. Region chat is a cesspool of sh*tposting, inappropriate topics of conversation, and maybe one or two people that actually tries to help the newer players. I've witnessed countless times the newbies that come in, ask questions, and players DELIBERATELY give them the wrong answer to mislead them, because they think it's hilarious. I'm there to correct them sometimes, but not all the time. I don't live in Warframe; I can only fix what's going on when I'm there.

If we had a new chat, meant for newbies and other people who needed help, there would, without a doubt, be people hanging out in there to take advantage of these people. You cannot tell me that there would not be. And you say that it just needs moderation, well, what do you think we do? We moderate, and we moderate a lot, but there is only so much moderating that we can do. We have personal lives and things to attend to; if we aren't here to moderate a chat meant for new players, what's to say that it won't be getting overrun by players who are only interested in getting their rocks off by being jerks to newbies? I've seen it happen a thousand times and over again.

If we restricted it to a simple rank, as mentioned, MR 8 and below, yes, there could be potential trolling, but not as bad as it would be if we just let everyone in there on a whim. And if no one is there to moderate it at certain times of the day, then all of these newer players have a chat where they can discuss things with themselves, and try to help each other out. They can learn together if no one is there to teach them. All of us had to learn some things on our own at some point; I think it would benefit newer players to have a chat full of people similar to their own rank that they can converse with and swap their stories and ask each other for help.

Without restrictions, this is just another region chat, except full of newbies that are trying to get help and are just getting sassed and mocked by older players. Don't think that would happen? I have an entire folder of screenshots from multiple region chats that would say otherwise. A lot of people in this game are rampant jerks; I would want as few of them in a chat like this as possible.

Edited May 31, 2016 by Telluric

[Rhekemi]

The points of your post expanding on the facts of region, your experience, and the need for an MR restriction (as you see it) are well taken.

But the level of condescension and (perhaps exasperation / frustration?) in your post is unnecessary.

I read your post. Twice.

I respectfully disagreed by saying I "think" moderation would be enough, and it "seems" no MR restrictions would have more benefits.

I'm happy to be wrong, especially as this topic was created to hash out how this chat should work.

Edit: Furthermore, you could just have easily mentioned your GOTL experience at the outset.

It added practical context to your new remarks that are more definitive than your first post.

Re-read your first post from the perspective of someone who isn't you; you seemed to be openly brainstorming, considering the good and the bad of the new chat, as well as relating your new player experience to the topic.

In that post, there was nothing that definitively stated (as a fact) that an unregulated chat would be drowned in trolling.

This is another reason I find your tone not only uncalled for but misdirected: we're all on the same page, no matter how much we disagree on and try to debate the finer points.

Take a step back and reassess, mate.

Edited May 31, 2016 by Rhekemi

[Rhekemi]

These are our current poll results:

 

And this is the Reddit thread:

https://www.reddit.com/r/Warframe/comments/4ltw5u/should_a_new_members_players_help_chat_room_be/

I will update this thread with a list of suggestions pooled from everyone (that will contain pro and con).

Lastly, this topic was moved back on request (thanks!) because while the topic does suggest a change to the game, it is not direct feedback intended for the devs yet.

We, the community, are still trying to figure out A) if it is worth it/necessary and B) what the change should look like.

[YasaiTsume]

Yes.

Been wanting for a new player specific chat for a long time so Guides can channel their focus there.

I would like it to be only accessible to MR 0 - 6 tho.

I really do not like it when people walk into Region and are bombarded by trolls.

I think it might be better if the chat is dedicated to people finding each other for long term gameplay rather than a one off taxi or carry sevice. 

[YasaiTsume]

On 5/31/2016 at 3:38 PM, Maicael said:

I think this would be a good idea.

I'd also think a "coaching" system could be helpful. Perhaps an experienced player joins a squad with a newer player, and maybe an option to be limited to same/similar equipment and mods as the newer player. This would give the coach a better idea of what they have available, how to make the most of it, and suggestions on what to get next. Also, if as an experienced player you can't handle something with their equipment, then you probably shouldn't be taking them there either.

 

Personally I think it is more satisfying as a player to group up with a couple of people on the same page and gameplay level than to attach people to a veteran.

I think Exploration is better than a Tour, as spoon feeding could lead to bad habits. 

I like it when I see newbies all shiny eyed when they found out a certain trick or build path and are excited. 

Let them have that enjoyment. 

[Kevyne_Kicklighter]

A game can always use a help chat, especially when stuck trying to finish a mission. Also asking for help in completing them. With all the "end-game" and Draco spam in recruiting, the mission guys and new players will never get help. Basically only key leeches/LF MR21 in Recruiting these days.

The system EvE uses is an excellent example of it (that game has a huge learning curve, and newbies are placed directly in that chat for 30 days).

Edited June 3, 2016 by Kevyne_Kicklighter

[Voltage]

On May 31, 2016 at 3:11 AM, snapcracklepop said:

How about when a question is asked in the chat any pm's sent through that chat open as a sort of ticket. After the player gives his advice it's listed as very helpful, helpful, unhelpful, very unhelpful etc 

If the player is given unhelpful/very unhelpful feedback too many times they will be monitored if very helpful, helpful is given perhaps they can be given a community help mark or something + other rewards.

I think just a marking. Rewards makes it so their will be exclusives locked behind being afk. 

[CrazyValkyr]

I think it would be great. Some people don't have the luck of being brought to the game by their friends, and they just want to try the game, coming on their own - and I can understand why they would get all confused about the game, as it doesn't guide newbies really well so far. Having a channel dedicated to new players would help these people immensely; given that it would actually be used as such. There are people out here, who'd enjoy offeringa helping hand to new players. Definitelly a thumbs-up to this. :)